Mods

[Sharon Cooper]

bought a couple of Mod cds and was surprised at some of the tunes listed, some northern and some sounding very northern. My older brother was a big mod and motown fan and then later in life got into northern. Do you think the mod scene played an important role as a fore runner to the northern scene?. the reason I ask is that it seems lots af credit is given to the black music scene in the early mid sixties, motown and R&B, but little is mentioned about the mod scene and its role. Would love more info on the mod scene.

Edited February 25, 2007 by bridget

[Guest in town Mikey]

I consider the mod/skinhead/NorthernSoul/suedehead sub genre's all to be of a similar ilk. Like in France for example where you get 3 or 4 different political groups forming a right ot left coalition, but each party is slightly different and bring their own style of left/right politics, the mods etc are all pretty much of the same 'political colour', but each have their own identity.

I heard the term 'dancing decendents of the mods' used many times when I first started to like Northern Soul. I'm pretty comfortable with that.

[Geoff]

I would think the Northern Soul scene is a descendant of the Mod era of the early mid 60s.

When I went to clubs in the period most of them played mainly rhythm and blues records, this covered the Muddy Waters/Jimmy Reed/John Lee Hooker bluesy style, Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley, early Motown, Barrett Strong, Marvelettes and Atlantic records, Solomon Burke, etc, the Chicago styles of the Impressions, Major Lance, etc.

By late 1964 there were less bluesy records played, and more of what is recognisably soul.

New releases were played, sometimes before release in this country. Of course there were great records out almost every week.

Quite a few Northern classics were played: Invitations' What's Wrong With Me Baby, Gene Chandler's Nothing Can Stop Me and Good Times, Poets' She Blew A Good Thing, Willie Mitchell's That Driving Beat (it was the b side of Everything's Gonna Be All Right, but both were played). There must have been others, but can't think at the moment, I do remember in the NS top 500 book there are various top 10s for clubs in later years and many were played in the mid 60s.

I can only give a London perspective, but probably the same in other towns.

One big difference between the Mod scene records and the NS scene, is the way that you don't hear many Atlantic or Stax records in the latter. This may be a generalisation on my part but there are very few Otis Redding or Wilson Pickett records played. I presume they are just too well known, or are they difficult to dance to?

Personally while I still love the records I grew up with, I don't really want to hear them when I go out, with a few exceptions. In The Midnight Hour, Respect, I Can't Help Myself, etc are for the front room only these days. Yet I'd love to hear Monkey Time, I Like It Like That, Jerry Butler and Betty Everett's Ain't That Loving You and various others in a club now.

Apologies for the trip down memory lane.

[Guest Dr Bob Jones]

I would think the Northern Soul scene is a descendant of the Mod era of the early mid 60s.

When I went to clubs in the period most of them played mainly rhythm and blues records, this covered the Muddy Waters/Jimmy Reed/John Lee Hooker bluesy style, Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley, early Motown, Barrett Strong, Marvelettes and Atlantic records, Solomon Burke, etc, the Chicago styles of the Impressions, Major Lance, etc.

By late 1964 there were less bluesy records played, and more of what is recognisably soul.

New releases were played, sometimes before release in this country. Of course there were great records out almost every week.

Quite a few Northern classics were played: Invitations' What's Wrong With Me Baby, Gene Chandler's Nothing Can Stop Me and Good Times, Poets' She Blew A Good Thing, Willie Mitchell's That Driving Beat (it was the b side of Everything's Gonna Be All Right, but both were played). There must have been others, but can't think at the moment, I do remember in the NS top 500 book there are various top 10s for clubs in later years and many were played in the mid 60s.

I can only give a London perspective, but probably the same in other towns.

One big difference between the Mod scene records and the NS scene, is the way that you don't hear many Atlantic or Stax records in the latter. This may be a generalisation on my part but there are very few Otis Redding or Wilson Pickett records played. I presume they are just too well known, or are they difficult to dance to?

Personally while I still love the records I grew up with, I don't really want to hear them when I go out, with a few exceptions. In The Midnight Hour, Respect, I Can't Help Myself, etc are for the front room only these days. Yet I'd love to hear Monkey Time, I Like It Like That, Jerry Butler and Betty Everett's Ain't That Loving You and various others in a club now.

Apologies for the trip down memory lane.

I grew up as 1st generation Mod in Chelmsford, Essex in the early to mid 60's and use to spend most of my weekends in London at The Flamingo, Whisky A Go Go, and The Crawdaddy in Richmond. Grew up listening to my sisters Blues and R 'n' B collection at the age of about 11, then progressed into Soul and what is now termed 'northern', but back then growing up in Essex it was just '60's soul music'. Some of my favs back in the day were (and still are) :-

Howard Tate 'Look At Granny Run Run' (Verve)

Ikettes 'Peaches and Cream' (Stateside)

James Brown 'Night Train' (Parlophone)

Willie Tee 'Walking Up A One Way Street / Thank You John' (Atlantic)

Candy & The Kisses 'The 81' (Cameo Parkway)

Flamingos 'Boogaloo Party' (Phillips)

Edwin Starr 'I am The Man / My Weakness is You' (Tamla Motown)

Olympics 'Baby Do The Philly Dog' (Phillips)

Darrell Banks 'Open The Door To Your Heart' (Stateside)

Jimmy Smith 'The Cat' (Verve)

As you can see I bought UK releases in the 60's and didn't start to buy imports until the end of 60's beginning of the 70's

As with Geoff, sorry to dwell back then but it was my 'mispent youth' and trips to Brighton, Margate, etc on Bank holidays went along with the threads and the sounds....good times?...oh yes.

Regards

Dr Bob Jones

[Bigsoulman]

Nice thread, i've done a few write up's for magazines and also did a whole radio show for Ash from the north east soul club a couple of years back, as Geoff say's you don't really get to hear most of the stuff we were digging in the 60s with a few exceptions, I think the original mod movement took in a whole lot more than black soul music such as Ska, beat (Small Faces, Kinks etc)and a bit of psych (but nothing too heavy), but up here in Edinburgh it was mostly bread and butter soul records that were played, but it was left to some of the great bands from Glasgow such as The Pathfinders, The Poets, The Beatstalkers to really open our ears to unheard soul stuff to which the club dj's quickly latched on to and brought the records into the clubs for us to drool over, this is a short list of stuff that was played in the major clubs up here other than the normal stuff,

Artistics--I'm Gonna Miss You

Jay & The Americans--Livin Above Your Head

Julian Covay--A Little Bit Hurt

The Platters--Washed Ashore--Sweet Sweet Lovin--With This Ring

Alvin Cash--The Philly Freeze

James & Bobby Purify--Do Unto Me

Bob Kuban & The In Men--The Cheater

Brenda Holloway--Just Look What You've Done

Jerry Butler--Moody Woman--Only The Strong Survive--What's The Use In Breaking Up

Barbara Lewis--Thankful For What I've Got

Impressions--You've Been Cheatin--Can't Satisfy

Rex Garvin--Sock It To Em JB

Smokey Robinson & The Miracles--If You Can Want

Lenny

[Guest Trevski]

bought a couple of Mod cds and was surprised at some of the tunes listed, some northern and some sounding very northern. My older brother was a big mod and motown fan and then later in life got into northern. Do you think the mod scene played an important role as a fore runner to the northern scene?. the reason I ask is that it seems lots af credit is given to the black music scene in the early mid sixties, motown and R&B, but little is mentioned about the mod scene and its role. Would love more info on the mod scene.

Deffinatly. Us Northerners, being a bit backward. or should that be having more taste, stayed with the traditional mod/scooter thing after much of the south, and the country in general, passed it by. Furthermore, most of the northern mods generally preferred the soul sounds to the white uk groups side of things. First Wheel/Torch goers were definatly mod originated, and probably saw themselves as Mods, I know the guys I hung round with did. "Northern"as a music,only really got established due to the limited supply of UK releases prompting DJ's etc to look further afield. If Dave Godin had called it "Northern Mod" or "Mod-Soul" it would have been the same outcome. I can remember circa 1970, the 'big boys' dressed to perfection in suits, blazers etc. At 13, I was decked out in button-down Bennys, Levi Sta-Prest, three button Harry Fentons jacket, loafers etc, dancing to Motown, Stax, Atlantic etc! Great days!

Edited February 26, 2007 by Trevski

[Guest nubes]

Bridget...hope this is helpful for you...Soul Stylists by Paolo Hewitt...ISBN 1 84018 228 8...this book IMO give a very detailed account of Modernist History...from its very humble origins of the late 40s right thru to the 80s casuals and beyond...i found it very informative....the book looks at the influence of black music and fashions...post war.. which were adopted by mainly white working class youths and youthesses....for instance,,i had always heard how the soul/funk scene of the early to mid 70s..in part, influenced the early punk fashions...i really couldn't make the connection..but it is all clearly explained by Chris Hill in this book..and it becomes clear as a bell..anyway babe..i hope this info is helpful..Delx

[Guest Dr Bob Jones]

Just to add one more thing, I was also going to gigs with UK based bands/groups

who played alot of R'n'B , Blues, and Soul in their sets.

Bands such as:-

Herbie Goines & The Nightimers

Root & Jenny Jackson Band

Geno Washington & The Ram Jam Band

Jimmy James & The Vagabonds

Ronnie Jones & The Blue Jays feat P.P.Arnold

Zoot Money's Big Roll Band

The Healers

Georgie Fame & The Blue Flames

Best

Dr Bob Jones

[Guest nubes]

Just to add one more thing, I was also going to gigs with UK based bands/groups

who played alot of R'n'B , Blues, and Soul in their sets.

Bands such as:-

Herbie Goines & The Nightimers

Root & Jenny Jackson Band

Geno Washington & The Ram Jam Band

Jimmy James & The Vagabonds

Ronnie Jones & The Blue Jays feat P.P.Arnold

Zoot Money's Big Roll Band

The Healers

Georgie Fame & The Blue Flames

Best

Dr Bob Jones

I remember seeing Geno Washington and the Ram Jam band playing at the annual Balloon Festival held in Northampton..god he was good...Delx

[Liamgp]

The 60s mods link is pretty obvious to anyone familiar with the history of the scene... and it's always been my opinion that the mod revival did a great deal to keep Northern alive and kicking through a lot of the 80s and even influenced a lot of the more R'n'B-style or slower sounds that were popular at Stafford and other nights.

This, as i've discovered, is an opinion that produces mixed opinions to say the least! Major reason that i think that i'm at least partly right is, from my perspective as a one-time Edinburgh Mod, for a long time the only events that seemed to be held in Scotland (and almost entirely in East coast Scotland for some reason...) were often organised by people with some link to the mod scene and which attracted masses of like-minded young punters, a lot of whom are still in the scene to some extent today.

Ditto Stafford and the newies scene. Could not believe that a nighter would get away with playing slowies and R'n'B-style music - very avant garde! - but again as a mod i found it naturally very acceptable. I mean Arthur Alexander, Stewart Ames, Roy Roberts, Tommy Navarro, Exits and masses more - fantastic sounds!

Mind you, there were always loads of mod revivalists who did and do hate soul. So why be a bloody mod in the first place then for pete's sake?

[Guest kent soul club]

Deffinatly. Us Northerners, being a bit backward. or should that be having more taste, stayed with the traditional mod/scooter thing after much of the south, and the country in general, passed it by.

At the age of 14/15, i got a lift to the Scarborough scooter rally,and saw all these scooters and mod parkas with ''northern Soul''...''soul man''...''keep the faith'' etc.

Think it was 80/81 and up until then I thought mod was about The Jam,The Who, Secret Affair etc. Found all the soul references a bit confusing, but had to find out more... There my education began

Magoo

[Geoff]

I've enjoyed reading the emails in this thread, some interesting opinions. Obviously I can only speak from my own experience.

On the subject of groups, black and white. For several months in 1964 my mates and I used to go to the Marquee in Wardour Street to see the Yardbirds with Eric Clapton. At the time they seemed brilliant, he was fantastic, did quite a bit of improvisation. I attended some of the sessions used for Five Live Yardbirds, but when I heard the LP years later it didn't have the same feeling. So I suppose it is something that is of that time, if you can see what I am trying to say. A good live performance is a unique thing and can't always be captured on vinyl.

I also used to go to the Marquee when the Who started a residency there, they did quite a few R&B numbers, I'm A Man, as well as Leaving Here, Heatwave, etc. I can't remember what night they were on, probably Monday, as we used to go to the Marquee, and go down the Scene in the bit where the supporting group were on. I think it was Monday as Tuesday was the best night at the Scene during the week, so wouldn't want to have missed it.

I saw the Stones a few times, but while they were good live, I preferred them when they did original material. Lesley used to be a regular at Eel Pie Island before we started going out, but I never went there.

I saw the Animals when they first came to London (Club Noreik, Seven Sisters Road, Tottenham), they were really good. Personally wasn't a big fan of the Small Faces, Lesley was, but just a personal opinion, seemed slightly manufactured to me, but of course the Who were as well.

I saw Georgie Fame on a few occasions, always good, also Herbie Goins at the Flamingo I think. I wasn't quite so keen on Jimmy James and Geno Washington, preferred to hear records (as I still do).

I (and my mates) preferred to hear soul (R& when we went out, but ska was played (we called it Bluebeat after the record label), but generally only a few records intermingled with soul.

Some pop records would be played, but generally fitted in with the soul stuff. I suppose the DJ could also play the ones they liked.

There was a short period in the summer of 1964 when old rock'n'roll records were played, e.g. Bill Haley's Shake Rattle and Roll, Carl Perkins' Blue Suede Shoes, etc. They seemed to go with the American style fashions of that period and the dances (Block and the Bang).

I know I am getting old because I can see it all in my mind's eye, yet can't remember what I did at work yesterday.

Once more apologies for the ramblings of an old git.

[Paul McKay]

Fascinating stuff Geoff! Keep it coming! Being a bit younger than you I missed all of this period.

[Guest in town Mikey]

I've enjoyed reading the emails in this thread, some interesting opinions. Obviously I can only speak from my own experience.

On the subject of groups, black and white. For several months in 1964 my mates and I used to go to the Marquee in Wardour Street to see the Yardbirds with Eric Clapton. At the time they seemed brilliant, he was fantastic, did quite a bit of improvisation. I attended some of the sessions used for Five Live Yardbirds, but when I heard the LP years later it didn't have the same feeling. So I suppose it is something that is of that time, if you can see what I am trying to say. A good live performance is a unique thing and can't always be captured on vinyl.

I also used to go to the Marquee when the Who started a residency there, they did quite a few R&B numbers, I'm A Man, as well as Leaving Here, Heatwave, etc. I can't remember what night they were on, probably Monday, as we used to go to the Marquee, and go down the Scene in the bit where the supporting group were on. I think it was Monday as Tuesday was the best night at the Scene during the week, so wouldn't want to have missed it.

I saw the Stones a few times, but while they were good live, I preferred them when they did original material. Lesley used to be a regular at Eel Pie Island before we started going out, but I never went there.

I saw the Animals when they first came to London (Club Noreik, Seven Sisters Road, Tottenham), they were really good. Personally wasn't a big fan of the Small Faces, Lesley was, but just a personal opinion, seemed slightly manufactured to me, but of course the Who were as well.

I saw Georgie Fame on a few occasions, always good, also Herbie Goins at the Flamingo I think. I wasn't quite so keen on Jimmy James and Geno Washington, preferred to hear records (as I still do).

I (and my mates) preferred to hear soul (R& when we went out, but ska was played (we called it Bluebeat after the record label), but generally only a few records intermingled with soul.

Some pop records would be played, but generally fitted in with the soul stuff. I suppose the DJ could also play the ones they liked.

There was a short period in the summer of 1964 when old rock'n'roll records were played, e.g. Bill Haley's Shake Rattle and Roll, Carl Perkins' Blue Suede Shoes, etc. They seemed to go with the American style fashions of that period and the dances (Block and the Bang).

I know I am getting old because I can see it all in my mind's eye, yet can't remember what I did at work yesterday.

Once more apologies for the ramblings of an old git.

Brilliant

[Guest Rowly]

Great stuff Geoff. The Who's Marquee residency was on Tuesdays tho - so you must have gone to both there and The Scene! Lucky Git!

Edited February 27, 2007 by Rowly

[Dave]

Great thread thread this, about a musical era I find very interesting.

Geoff, you should write a book

[Guest Dr Bob Jones]

I've enjoyed reading the emails in this thread, some interesting opinions. Obviously I can only speak from my own experience.

On the subject of groups, black and white. For several months in 1964 my mates and I used to go to the Marquee in Wardour Street to see the Yardbirds with Eric Clapton. At the time they seemed brilliant, he was fantastic, did quite a bit of improvisation. I attended some of the sessions used for Five Live Yardbirds, but when I heard the LP years later it didn't have the same feeling. So I suppose it is something that is of that time, if you can see what I am trying to say. A good live performance is a unique thing and can't always be captured on vinyl.

I also used to go to the Marquee when the Who started a residency there, they did quite a few R&B numbers, I'm A Man, as well as Leaving Here, Heatwave, etc. I can't remember what night they were on, probably Monday, as we used to go to the Marquee, and go down the Scene in the bit where the supporting group were on. I think it was Monday as Tuesday was the best night at the Scene during the week, so wouldn't want to have missed it.

I saw the Stones a few times, but while they were good live, I preferred them when they did original material. Lesley used to be a regular at Eel Pie Island before we started going out, but I never went there.

I saw the Animals when they first came to London (Club Noreik, Seven Sisters Road, Tottenham), they were really good. Personally wasn't a big fan of the Small Faces, Lesley was, but just a personal opinion, seemed slightly manufactured to me, but of course the Who were as well.

I saw Georgie Fame on a few occasions, always good, also Herbie Goins at the Flamingo I think. I wasn't quite so keen on Jimmy James and Geno Washington, preferred to hear records (as I still do).

I (and my mates) preferred to hear soul (R& when we went out, but ska was played (we called it Bluebeat after the record label), but generally only a few records intermingled with soul.

Some pop records would be played, but generally fitted in with the soul stuff. I suppose the DJ could also play the ones they liked.

There was a short period in the summer of 1964 when old rock'n'roll records were played, e.g. Bill Haley's Shake Rattle and Roll, Carl Perkins' Blue Suede Shoes, etc. They seemed to go with the American style fashions of that period and the dances (Block and the Bang).

I know I am getting old because I can see it all in my mind's eye, yet can't remember what I did at work yesterday.

Once more apologies for the ramblings of an old git.

Yes Geoff

My musical upbringing ran parallel to your own. Remember seeing the Who at The Railway Hotel, in Harrow. The place had a real low ceiling, use to sweat like hell, but the atmosphere was brilliant. The Who covered alot of R'n'B back in the day. They performed a brilliant version of Derek Martin's 'Daddy Rollin Stone' and were a regular band at Chelmsford

Corn Exchange, where live music was put on every Sat night. We also had US acts play there, that were mainly Blues based such as John Lee Hooker, Howling Wolf, Sleepy John Estes, and Sonny Boy Williamson.

Also I don't know about you but we always wore suits when going to a dance. Tonic mohair 2 piece, 9" or 12" side vent in the jacket, hand stitched lapels and 2 to 3 buttons with silk lining of course. Button down shirt with tie and silk hankerchief in the breast pocket with tie pin to keep it in place. Finished off with wearing polished Loafers or Royals.

My mod roots definitely played a major part in my appreciation for quality black music, that goes without saying.

Regards

Dr Bob Jones

[Guest Goldwax]

I've enjoyed reading the emails in this thread, some interesting opinions. Obviously I can only speak from my own experience.

On the subject of groups, black and white. For several months in 1964 my mates and I used to go to the Marquee in Wardour Street to see the Yardbirds with Eric Clapton. At the time they seemed brilliant, he was fantastic, did quite a bit of improvisation. I attended some of the sessions used for Five Live Yardbirds, but when I heard the LP years later it didn't have the same feeling. So I suppose it is something that is of that time, if you can see what I am trying to say. A good live performance is a unique thing and can't always be captured on vinyl.

I also used to go to the Marquee when the Who started a residency there, they did quite a few R&B numbers, I'm A Man, as well as Leaving Here, Heatwave, etc. I can't remember what night they were on, probably Monday, as we used to go to the Marquee, and go down the Scene in the bit where the supporting group were on. I think it was Monday as Tuesday was the best night at the Scene during the week, so wouldn't want to have missed it.

I saw the Stones a few times, but while they were good live, I preferred them when they did original material. Lesley used to be a regular at Eel Pie Island before we started going out, but I never went there.

I saw the Animals when they first came to London (Club Noreik, Seven Sisters Road, Tottenham), they were really good. Personally wasn't a big fan of the Small Faces, Lesley was, but just a personal opinion, seemed slightly manufactured to me, but of course the Who were as well.

I saw Georgie Fame on a few occasions, always good, also Herbie Goins at the Flamingo I think. I wasn't quite so keen on Jimmy James and Geno Washington, preferred to hear records (as I still do).

I (and my mates) preferred to hear soul (R& when we went out, but ska was played (we called it Bluebeat after the record label), but generally only a few records intermingled with soul.

Some pop records would be played, but generally fitted in with the soul stuff. I suppose the DJ could also play the ones they liked.

There was a short period in the summer of 1964 when old rock'n'roll records were played, e.g. Bill Haley's Shake Rattle and Roll, Carl Perkins' Blue Suede Shoes, etc. They seemed to go with the American style fashions of that period and the dances (Block and the Bang).

I know I am getting old because I can see it all in my mind's eye, yet can't remember what I did at work yesterday.

Once more apologies for the ramblings of an old git.

Great reading Geoff (and Bob)! How about a part two - London mid to late sixties? Did London have a club to give the Wheel a run for it's money?

[Guest martyn]

I've enjoyed reading the emails in this thread, some interesting opinions. Obviously I can only speak from my own experience.

On the subject of groups, black and white. For several months in 1964 my mates and I used to go to the Marquee in Wardour Street to see the Yardbirds with Eric Clapton. At the time they seemed brilliant, he was fantastic, did quite a bit of improvisation. I attended some of the sessions used for Five Live Yardbirds, but when I heard the LP years later it didn't have the same feeling. So I suppose it is something that is of that time, if you can see what I am trying to say. A good live performance is a unique thing and can't always be captured on vinyl.

I also used to go to the Marquee when the Who started a residency there, they did quite a few R&B numbers, I'm A Man, as well as Leaving Here, Heatwave, etc. I can't remember what night they were on, probably Monday, as we used to go to the Marquee, and go down the Scene in the bit where the supporting group were on. I think it was Monday as Tuesday was the best night at the Scene during the week, so wouldn't want to have missed it.

I saw the Stones a few times, but while they were good live, I preferred them when they did original material. Lesley used to be a regular at Eel Pie Island before we started going out, but I never went there.

I saw the Animals when they first came to London (Club Noreik, Seven Sisters Road, Tottenham), they were really good. Personally wasn't a big fan of the Small Faces, Lesley was, but just a personal opinion, seemed slightly manufactured to me, but of course the Who were as well.

I saw Georgie Fame on a few occasions, always good, also Herbie Goins at the Flamingo I think. I wasn't quite so keen on Jimmy James and Geno Washington, preferred to hear records (as I still do).

I (and my mates) preferred to hear soul (R& when we went out, but ska was played (we called it Bluebeat after the record label), but generally only a few records intermingled with soul.

Some pop records would be played, but generally fitted in with the soul stuff. I suppose the DJ could also play the ones they liked.

There was a short period in the summer of 1964 when old rock'n'roll records were played, e.g. Bill Haley's Shake Rattle and Roll, Carl Perkins' Blue Suede Shoes, etc. They seemed to go with the American style fashions of that period and the dances (Block and the Bang).

I know I am getting old because I can see it all in my mind's eye, yet can't remember what I did at work yesterday.

Once more apologies for the ramblings of an old git.

Brilliant stuff ! keep it up Geoff-I was only 4 in 1964 so find this sort of stuff facinating.

[Guest CapitolSC]

bought a couple of Mod cds and was surprised at some of the tunes listed, some northern and some sounding very northern. My older brother was a big mod and motown fan and then later in life got into northern. Do you think the mod scene played an important role as a fore runner to the northern scene?. the reason I ask is that it seems lots af credit is given to the black music scene in the early mid sixties, motown and R&B, but little is mentioned about the mod scene and its role. Would love more info on the mod scene.

Great stuff from Bob and Geoff,id have loved to have gone to the scene and the flamingo

but i was only one in 1963.

Got into soul and rnb from the time of the mod revival in 1979 west hampsted and the 100 club

There was loads of underground club in London run by mods and the music was Rhythm and soul

Stafford played a massive part in our education and Ady, Guy,Keb and Ian Clarke were our heroes

From that time came Tony Smith,Val Palmer,Mark,Ian Jackson,Shane Cox,Chris Dale,Dave Edwards,Mace,Rob Messer, Irish Greg come out of retirement now,Dawn Brown ,Stuart Tyler,Ady Lupton and Sharnya Hale to name a few.

Go to present day mod clubs and youll here top tunes

Al H

Edited February 28, 2007 by CapitolSC

[Geoff]

I think both you and I had similar musical backgrounds Bob. First music I really liked was rock'n'roll, but soon realised that so much was copied from black artistes doing rhythm and blues. As the 60s got going groups of musicians started R&B groups and this helped the scene to get going. Parallel of course was the fashion scene, I think Mods were originally Modernists, who liked modern jazz, as opposed to the popularity of trad jazz, whose devotees, with due respect, I remember as slightly scruffy, duffle coats, etc. I remember guys when I was at school with really nice coats and raincoats, pale blue trenchcoat, like a Burberry. Short Italian box jackets, and trousers with a sort of step cut in the bottom, not sure how else to describe it. (This was before the fitted jackets, with one or two vents came in.) Shoes were winklepickers believe it or not, at that time, replaced by square toes, then round toes. They were all at least one or two years above me, I didn't have the money for much fashion, and my parents were rather unco-operative, lol.

I agree with Bob, suits were much more in evidence in that time, unlike nowadays (last year there was only one occasion when I wore a suit and tie, at a christening, and I looked overdressed). For allnighters I didn't ever wear a suit, just too hot. I used to like the woollen casual shirts, Italian or French, long sleeves, bigger collar than the average polo shirt now, and a button at the back. Mind you, looking back they were pretty hot too, when the place was packed and you danced. I remember lots of guys kept their leather or suede full length coats on all evening. They must have been really hot, but appearance was everything. Do you remember the light grey crewneck pullovers?

Nice to be reminded of the pocket hankies, they were really nice, matched your tie sometimes. If I was taking a girl out on a date (not to a club), I would usually wear a suit (or co-ordinated jacket and trousers, still my preference today over suits), and a tie.

Sorry to digress to a fashion note.

I like this thread, gets my memory working, and it helps to put it down (if only on the screen as opposed to paper).

Please tell me if I get boring and I'll stop.

[Guest Rowly]

No way boring Geoff - more please! Btw - I've cut and pasted your previous post over onto the modculture forum - hope you dont mind!

[Guest clanger v2]

Agree with Rowly, in no way is this boring

In fact it's refreshing to hear from someone who was actually there, rather than listening to someone who 'think' they know it all!

Please carry on.....fascinating reading

[Bazza]

Also Agree with Rowly,great reading ,very interesting,reminded me abit about my days as a Suedehead ,had to be immaculate,tonic suits ,button down shirts ,pocket hanky's, loafers,great days

not in the least boring Geoff,i'd like to here more

Bazza

Edited February 28, 2007 by bazza

[Simon M]

Yep I was a Mod around 1979 from there I discovered the UK all-nighter scene . Probably the most fascinating British youth culture for me ,because of the many cosmopolitan influenzas it embraced .Thanks to this forum I have this picture of me from that year ***** Any more Mod pictures anyone ?

Edited February 28, 2007 by Simon M

[Guest in town Mikey]

I think this thread has been one of the best and most interesting ones for a long time.

Bob and Geoff. you should talk to Dan on here.

I'm sure the book would sell, if it is half as entertaining as these posts.

[Guest]

Bob and Geoff, reading your posts has been like listening to my Dad - there is every possibility that you could have known each other as you appear to have been in the same clubs during the same years

I know Dad was a mod and has talked at length about having suits and shoes made, and attending the scene, flamingo and various other clubs. I know he bought his first soul record in 1964 - Major Lance - Rhythm after hearing it played by the woman Dj down the scene and having to write it on his hand (after 3 weeks of asking)so he'd remember what it was. It would appear that this was the record that got him hooked on chicago soul, and was how I grew up listening to tunes the likes of which Geoff has already listed. He also had a lambretta (but tuned up to go as fast as possible), and took copious quantities of amphetimines (except the time they had sleeping pills by mistake)

Don't really know when his going out and partying stopped. I know that he met my Mum in 66 and was wed in 68. I came along in 1970 and by then dad was racing motorbikes. He still buys records occaisionally and follows me around talking at me when I see him. Please don't ask him to write a book, because I think he is and I have so far escaped from having to read any of it....

Dad (Mick Warwick) grew up in Leytonstone, and would have been 18/19 in 1964 (he'll be 62 this year).

Oh and I know you sometimes come on here just to embarrass me - so hello Dad x

[Geoff]

I'd have been down the Scene when your Dad was there Kirsty, the lady DJ played loads of Major Lance in late 64, I think some may have been off an LP. Monkey Time, Hey Little Girl, Um Um Um Um Um Um, Rhythm, still great tracks imo, and would be nice to hear them out now, they are still great dancers.

Others played at that time included: Gene Chandler's A Song Called Soul; Tommy Duncan's Dance Dance Dance; William Bell's Monkeyin' Around; It's All Right and Talking About My Baby by the Impressions; You're So Fine And Sweet by the Miracles (flip to That's What Love Is Made Of, also played); James Brown's Night Train (people formed a train and wound around the dance area); just so many great records, mostly new releases or re-issues on Sue.

If anyone is interested I will try and find a post I did on Keeping The Faith a few years ago, that had my impressions of the Scene (it was my favourite club) and a list of some of the records played that I remembered.

On a slightly different note, I loved These Old Shoes, it always reminded me of the Scene and similar clubs, the nearest I've ever been to the clubs of those days. I've not been to the Hideaway so can't comment on what that is like.

[Billy Freemantle]

Furthermore, most of the northern mods generally preferred the soul sounds to the white uk groups side of things. First Wheel/Torch goers were definatly mod originated, and probably saw themselves as Mods...

Yes, that's the way it was. I'm a bit surprised at this thread. I would have thought that the history of 'the scene' was almost a cliche by now.

[Sharon Cooper]

Yes, that's the way it was. I'm a bit surprised at this thread. I would have thought that the history of 'the scene' was almost a cliche by now.

Its been a really excellent thread.. and yes, whilst I would agree about the 'cliche' comment I think this thread has given a slighty different angle to it (Just my own opinion)

[Rbman]

For goodness sake, don't encourage the old git (Geoff) to go down memory lane.... I have to put up with it every time I see him...." I did this" "I saw so and so at".... "i bought that first time round".... "I remember when the girls first wore mini skirts"..... stop living in the past Geoff and buy an MP3 player

M

[Sharon Cooper]

I've enjoyed reading the emails in this thread, some interesting opinions. Obviously I can only speak from my own experience.

On the subject of groups, black and white. For several months in 1964 my mates and I used to go to the Marquee in Wardour Street to see the Yardbirds with Eric Clapton. At the time they seemed brilliant, he was fantastic, did quite a bit of improvisation. I attended some of the sessions used for Five Live Yardbirds, but when I heard the LP years later it didn't have the same feeling. So I suppose it is something that is of that time, if you can see what I am trying to say. A good live performance is a unique thing and can't always be captured on vinyl.

I also used to go to the Marquee when the Who started a residency there, they did quite a few R&B numbers, I'm A Man, as well as Leaving Here, Heatwave, etc. I can't remember what night they were on, probably Monday, as we used to go to the Marquee, and go down the Scene in the bit where the supporting group were on. I think it was Monday as Tuesday was the best night at the Scene during the week, so wouldn't want to have missed it.

I saw the Stones a few times, but while they were good live, I preferred them when they did original material. Lesley used to be a regular at Eel Pie Island before we started going out, but I never went there.

I saw the Animals when they first came to London (Club Noreik, Seven Sisters Road, Tottenham), they were really good. Personally wasn't a big fan of the Small Faces, Lesley was, but just a personal opinion, seemed slightly manufactured to me, but of course the Who were as well.

I saw Georgie Fame on a few occasions, always good, also Herbie Goins at the Flamingo I think. I wasn't quite so keen on Jimmy James and Geno Washington, preferred to hear records (as I still do).

I (and my mates) preferred to hear soul (R& when we went out, but ska was played (we called it Bluebeat after the record label), but generally only a few records intermingled with soul.

Some pop records would be played, but generally fitted in with the soul stuff. I suppose the DJ could also play the ones they liked.

There was a short period in the summer of 1964 when old rock'n'roll records were played, e.g. Bill Haley's Shake Rattle and Roll, Carl Perkins' Blue Suede Shoes, etc. They seemed to go with the American style fashions of that period and the dances (Block and the Bang).

I know I am getting old because I can see it all in my mind's eye, yet can't remember what I did at work yesterday.

Once more apologies for the ramblings of an old git.

Great stuff Geoff and it's this era that I was referring too, that is the sixties mods, when mods were mods and rockers were rockers; can't see how the mods of the late 70s early eighties could influence a scene that was well established by then. The halcyon days of the northern scene for me were the late sixties early to mid 70s.

Chris

[Bazza]

Great stuff Geoff and it's this era that I was referring too, that is the sixties mods, when mods were mods and rockers were rockers; can't see how the mods of the late 70s early eighties could influence a scene that was well established by then. The halcyon days of the northern scene for me were the late sixties early to mid 70s.

Chris

oh yes ,them were the days ,same for me Chris

Bazza

[Sharon Cooper]

oh yes ,them were the days ,same for me Chris

Bazza

Go steady, Bazza,don't start 'em off again!!

[Bazza]

Go steady, Bazza,don't start 'em off again!!

Nooooooo.being a good boy now..............for the time being anyway

off to stoke Saturday you ??

Bazza

[Geoff]

For goodness sake, don't encourage the old git (Geoff) to go down memory lane.... I have to put up with it every time I see him...." I did this" "I saw so and so at".... "i bought that first time round".... "I remember when the girls first wore mini skirts"..... stop living in the past Geoff and buy an MP3 player

M

You cheeky young whippersnapper. No more R&B CDs for you!!

[Guest vinylvixen]

Great thread thread this, about a musical era I find very interesting.

Geoff, you should write a book

Dave, I've already told him that he's got to write a book....I'm going to kidnap Geoff and make him talk He will tell me more... Jo

[Rbman]

You cheeky young whippersnapper. No more R&B CDs for you!!

you know I'm only jesting Geoff,...you know i find it very interesting and I've told you that a good book is in there...get it down on paper soon so we all can enjoy your memories.

M

[Guest vinylvixen]

On a slightly different note, I loved These Old Shoes, it always reminded me of the Scene and similar clubs, the nearest I've ever been to the clubs of those days.

Geoff, that's the biggest compliment I and everyone else involved with 'Shoes' has ever been paid... we all strived to make the atmosphere tangible. My own private mission was to re-create the feeling/ atmosphere that I felt every time I went to West Hampstead - a club which played an eclectic mixture of tunes from the 1940's onwards but leaning heavily towards the 6Ts club fodder. 'Shoes' was a combination of PTPs, Martins and later Alan H's and Andy Faulkners tastes, superb guest djs and a large helping of audience participation - and the magic disco light

As for the Mod scene vs the Northern scene...I'd already been going up to Wigan since the mid 7Ts and then the 7Ts Mod Revival happened when I was living in London. I ventured to West Hampstead where I met Randy Cozens and I started djing @ Bogarts in Strood with Keith Rylatt - both these people were major influences on my musical tastes (and just to mention - Keith Rylatt was playing 'Angelina' by Stewart Ames in 1980 at Bogarts, slightly before Stafford). So my Northern and Mod parts welded together - and I guess that's why I play Northern and RnB in my sets...Jo

[Guest vinylvixen]

Yep I was a Mod around 1979 from there I discovered the UK all-nighter scene . Probably the most fascinating British youth culture for me ,because of the many cosmopolitan influenzas it embraced .Thanks to this forum I have this picture of me from that year ***** Any more Mod pictures anyone ?

I'm on the front cover of the Kent CD 'In the Beginning' with a number one crop in the top right hand corner sporting one of the first 'F*ck Art, Let's Dance' Tshirts....It was given to me by Chas Smash's brother and I was cautioned for wearing it in public by a policeman on the way to West Hampstead the night that photo was taken....happy days Jo

[Sharon Cooper]

Nooooooo.being a good boy now..............for the time being anyway

off to stoke Saturday you ??

Bazza

No chuck, off to the Attic (Chris is DJing) and then home to bed-ee-bys!!

[Guest nubes]

and I guess that's why I play Northern and RnB in my sets...Jo

And stonking good toons you play as well gal,...Delxx

[Guest]

bought a couple of Mod cds and was surprised at some of the tunes listed,

Why did you buy Mod CDs when there are Mods on this site that are usualy only too happy to provide CDs of Beat, Ska, Soul etc - usually of the highest qp and for nowt!???????????

[Guest vinylvixen]

and I guess that's why I play Northern and RnB in my sets...Jo

And stonking good toons you play as well gal,...Delxx

Cheers me dears I also found Dr Bob's info really interesting. Bob, being an Essex boy, do you know whether Harlow was a 'mod' town in the 6Ts and if there were any decent clubs....Jo

[Simon M]

Any pictures yet people? ..some nice black and white ones

[Guest in town Mikey]

Any pictures yet people? ..some nice black and white ones

I was just thinking the same Simon.

[Simon M]

I was just thinking the same Simon.

Thats right Mikey , Ive seen all the run of the mill 60's ones . lets see if these guys were as good as Marriot

[Sharon Cooper]

Well first I was on holiday with my wife and we stopped to buy fuel and noticed a few cheapie cds for sale, so for the journey we bought a couple. Secondly, even though I started listening to what we now call NS about 70-71 i considered the Mod scene a thing of the sixties and over and as a young lad begining to make my way in the world Mod was now old, so I never ever considered listening to it.

Thirdly and has a result of the second I have never up until recently connected the two. My big bro is 4 years older than me and when he married in 73 i was 20 and would never have considered listening to his music. we had regular arguments about which music was best, me for the northern and him for his mod/motown & pop stuff. Remember back in the day if you didn't like northern you were considered a div and hey I didn't want to be seen as a div.

Finally I have never really noticed anything about mods on SS, but that is probably because I wasn't looking.

Ps anybody know where this word DIV came from?

[Guest]

Well first I was on holiday with my wife and we stopped to buy fuel and noticed a few cheapie cds for sale, so for the journey we bought a couple. Secondly, even though I started listening to what we now call NS about 70-71 i considered the Mod scene a thing of the sixties and over and as a young lad begining to make my way in the world Mod was now old, so I never ever considered listening to it.

Thirdly and has a result of the second I have never up until recently connected the two. My big bro is 4 years older than me and when he married in 73 i was 20 and would never have considered listening to his music. we had regular arguments about which music was best, me for the northern and him for his mod/motown & pop stuff. Remember back in the day if you didn't like northern you were considered a div and hey I didn't want to be seen as a div.

Finally I have never really noticed anything about mods on SS, but that is probably because I wasn't looking.

Ps anybody know where this word DIV came from?

I have had some fantastic CDs of Mod style RnB, Funk, Ska, Soul and Beat from people who are members of this forum and very much into the Mod scene. I am very intrested in what has and is being played on the Mod scene.

Thats all I was getting at, no need to be offensive!

[ImberBoy]

Geoff, I am so jealous mate! It sounds as if you where present at a very important time in British music and youth culture, wish I could have been there as well.

I don't think "Mod" music gave much to the soul scene but I do think the "Mods" pulled out a genre of soul music making it more accessible or at least played to a wider audience just as blue beet n ska went from underground to over ground.

The "Mod" sound was a very clean, limp wristed almost "poppy" sound in its own right.

The copyists who tried to recreate RnB and soul where exactly copyists. The Stones, Georgie Fame, and a host of artists who we now refer to as "Blue eyed soul", Dusty Springfields springs to mind.

There are two distinctive sounds here, take for example what is British born "Mod" Freddy and the Dreamers or Gerry and the Pacemakers and of course The kinks, very British and very "Mod" and not very soulful indeed.

The American Black influence on music didn't become "Mod", it was liked by "Mods" but I think it always remained labelled RnB or Motown, I think most "Mods" would have said I like this and I like that, that's "Mod" but I also like Motown, RnB and Jazz.

Of course it is a mine field when we start to label music; it's like trying to explain the taste of food, difficult and some times impossible.

I do know that there was a separation, slight as it may have been but a separation none the less. Geographically and genre wise, I am of course having to stereo type and refer to the "North South Divide".

"Mod" existed oop North as well but gravitated more towards a separate genre and that was of soul later to become what we know and love "Northernsoul".

The Marquee, The 100 club, The Flamingo and the Shepherds Bush music where all important but faded for a long while after fashions and taste changed. "Mod" lost its credibility when it was dropped like a hot potato by the South as fashions changed and the music changed.

The North of England held "Their" music a little more closely to their hearts and Northern soul became ingrained into the culture oop North. Of course the 100 club and Drummonds and RSG and the like get a big nod of respect but lets face it they where started by Northerners who had moved down south.

"Mod" British pop music.

Sorry to stir the north south thang.......... Honest. :-)

P.S. little disappointed that The Imber Beat hasn't been mentioned? :-(