Dance photos request

[Bluebell]

I would like some help please.

I am trying to find authentic dance moves that will encapsulate what's done on the dance floor.

This would be really helpful as the aim is to make small models

Any help would be appreciated as google is very limited and the same old stuff 

I know there are some excellent dancers out there that may be happy to share a good photo, but i need a good photographer who would be happy to let me see what they have captured and obviously give permission for me to base my sculptures on their work.

Thank you in advance any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Alison

Edited January 5, 2023 by Source
moved and title expanded

[Amsterdam Russ]

1 hour ago, Bluebell said:

I am trying to find authentic dance moves that will encapsulate what's done on the dance floor.

Historically? Contemporary? What style of dancing?

And what copyright protections and fees for photographers?

[Bluebell]

Thanks for replying 

I didn’t really want to pay at this stage and I understand that a professional photographer would own the copyrights to their work.  So I will need to do my homework and try and find the answers in another way.

the problem is trying to create a figure that looks like it’s in motion ..

I’m looking for clear photos that are going to help with body posture mid swallow dive, back drop, spin, splits etc all oldies.

all photos I can find are on Google I’m not copying the photo maybe trying to look at the positioning 

thanks for you advice

 

 

[Amsterdam Russ]

1 hour ago, Bluebell said:

I didn’t really want to pay at this stage and I understand that a professional photographer would own the copyrights to their work.  So I will need to do my homework and try and find the answers in another way.

Yes, best you do your homework regarding copyrights and usage. Don't want to pay? Shame on you.

[Woodbutcher]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/copyright-notice-digital-images-photographs-and-the-internet/copyright-notice-digital-images-photographs-and-the-internet

[Chalky]

She isn’t exactly reusing the photograph and has stated she is seeking permission from the owner.  I doubt any copyright infringement would be broken?  
 

Are you on any other social media platform?

[Amsterdam Russ]

18 minutes ago, Chalky said:

She isn’t exactly reusing the photograph and has stated she is seeking permission from the owner.  I doubt any copyright infringement would be broken?  

You take a photo or photos of people dancing in a public space. I make a sculpture or sculptures based on the subject matter in the photo(s). I don't seek permission from you to make the sculpture based directly or derivatively on your photos. I make the sculpture(s) public and get acclaim for my work. I don't have any legal contract or licensing agreement with you. You're not bothered and doubt there would be any copyright or intellectual property infringements. I sell my sculptures and further derivative works commercially. You still think the same.

Based on what - fair use? Uh-oh - there may be trouble ahead.

https://archive.nytimes.com/lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/obama-image-copyright-case-is-settled/

 

 

 

[Chalky]

5 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

You take a photo or photos of people dancing in a public space. I make a sculpture or sculptures based on the subject matter in the photo(s). I don't seek permission from you to make the sculpture based directly or derivatively on your photos. I make the sculpture(s) public and get acclaim for my work. I don't have any legal contract or licensing agreement with you. You're not bothered and doubt there would be any copyright or intellectual property infringements. I sell my sculptures and further derivative works commercially. You still think the same.

Based on what - fair use? Uh-oh - there may be trouble ahead.

https://archive.nytimes.com/lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/obama-image-copyright-case-is-settled/

 

 

 

She has said she is seeking permission. If permission is given then there isn’t a problem and no need for members to get on their high horse as usual. I don’t see anyone being pulled up for using images within the multitude of flyers used to advertise a venue. 
 

The case you quote has taken the image and reused it basically.  A sculpture isn’t exactly replicating a photo but I get your point. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Chalky

[Amsterdam Russ]

13 hours ago, Chalky said:

I don’t see anyone being pulled up for using images within the multitude of flyers used to advertise a venue. 
 

The case you quote has taken the image and reused it basically.  A sculpture isn’t exactly replicating a photo but I get your point. 

If people were pulled up for using images on flyers that they don't have permission to use then they would find they had fallen foul of copyright laws.

And a sculpture of the subject in a photo - in this instance a dancer - would be a derivative work and the creator would also fall foul of copyright laws - if permissions had not been sought.

As for pulling people up, late last year it was pointed out to me that someone was offering t-shirts and hoodies on an online selling platform (and posting links to them on Facebook) that featured a design I'd created for a Northern Soul Amsterdam website logo/record box sticker a few years back. I served a copyright infringement notice on the US-based company that owned the platform and the merchandising was swiftly removed from sale and the page replaced with a legal notice stating that the items did indeed infringe copyright. 

[Fish Fingers]

I imagine the OP has probably gone elsewhere looking for help. 

She was just asking (very politely) for some assistance, so she can get the feeling of 'body posture' in the models she is making. 

I don't think she is aiming to recreate the subject of the photo. Just get a feel of the movement. 

I reckon the younger soul crowd is the place to go. They can still do the moves and I have no doubt would be more willing to help out. 

Good luck Alison. It would be good to see the models once finished. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Fish Fingers

[Zoomsoulblue]

On 04/01/2023 at 22:05, Bluebell said:
help dance photos 

Alison - you need someone who knows the past history of how people danced back in the mid and late 70ts when NS was at its height - the difference style dancing from stompers to shufflers - I would PM Mick Cooper he’s on here as Coops - great guy, knows what he’s talking about and very helpful am sure - plus he’s got 1,000 of images of people dancing Also if you look on you tube This England Wigan doc and the outtakes you’re get a really good idea ref dancing.

have fun

[Chalky]

Alison, you will find there are many who will be glad to help and most, unlike some, are very welcoming.  As @Zoomsoulblue says Coops will probably help, he is out every week taking photos @coopsand a great guy as well, send him a PM.  

We aren't all miserable and unhelpful on here.  I've only really taken photos of live acts so can't help with dancers.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Chalky

[Fish Fingers]

I am also interested in what the models will be like.....

What sort of size etc and will they be for sale? 

Or is it just a personal project type thing? 

Personally, I can see a potential market for them. Soulies sure love collecting stuff.

[Amsterdam Russ]

To the original poster - you should especially try Kenichi images (Flickr) and Richard Oughton (Instagram). Links here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kenichi_images_glasgow/

https://www.instagram.com/richard_oughton/

One thing that bugs me in all of this, and I admit to taking a negative perspective early on, is the lack of desire to pay artists/creators for their work.

Hello, this is Soul Source! How many times have we collectively bemoaned the ripping off of singers, groups and music creators by label owners big and small?

Given the decades-long and publicly acknowledged scandal of soul artists (and indeed artists across all genres and across so many decades) not receiving due payment and financial recognition ("Damn, I was forced to accept a contract that paid me two bucks for a recording" - or- "I've never received any royalties at all") for their work, I find the support of "I want permission to use other people's creative works to create my own creative works - but I don't want to pay for it" extremely hypocritical. 

Do the work - be superbly creative - but pay your dues.

[Bluebell]

Ok, so I’m sorry if I have upset anyone with my request or triggered a negative reaction that has been projected my way… something that you feel very passionate about, but that wasn’t intention.  I was hoping to get the support and help with my very small project.. I had no intention of copying anyones work at all hence not needing to pay for the privilege.. and I always pay my dues…

Many thanks for the support from others and I will follow the advice and read the links which are really helpful.  I have taken some photos myself over the years at nighters or events and my love for northern soul has been constant for years.  It is actually my husband who is the sculptor not me but my project is to help create ‘the dancer’ who may just stand on my telly!

Alongside Olive Oil dancing on a 45 or Roadrunner with a sax around his neck all brilliant little models hand made on my shelf at home not for sale due to copyright as I,M sure this wouldn’t be allowed.  But to design my own impression of the dancer and there may be many of them if it works … from my own mind would be something original but how do I get how the muscle in the back of an arm to look like it’s in motion without being able to see it.

Cartoons are just much easier to work with..

Thank again

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paul-s]

On 04/01/2023 at 23:05, Bluebell said:

I would like some help please.

I am trying to find authentic dance moves that will encapsulate what's done on the dance floor.

This would be really helpful as the aim is to make small models

Any help would be appreciated as google is very limited and the same old stuff 

I know there are some excellent dancers out there that may be happy to share a good photo, but i need a good photographer who would be happy to let me see what they have captured and obviously give permission for me to base my sculptures on their work.

Thank you in advance any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Alison

'Authentic' is a very slippery term. Who authorises? What constitutes authentic? Surely anything thats done on the dance-floor to the music is authentic? Do you mean the images that have been promoted over the years via the very limited available collections of dance photos? Backdrop, split, swallow dive etc?

 

Good luck

[Chalky]

13 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

To the original poster - you should especially try Kenichi images (Flickr) and Richard Oughton (Instagram). Links here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kenichi_images_glasgow/

https://www.instagram.com/richard_oughton/

One thing that bugs me in all of this, and I admit to taking a negative perspective early on, is the lack of desire to pay artists/creators for their work.

Hello, this is Soul Source! How many times have we collectively bemoaned the ripping off of singers, groups and music creators by label owners big and small?

Given the decades-long and publicly acknowledged scandal of soul artists (and indeed artists across all genres and across so many decades) not receiving due payment and financial recognition ("Damn, I was forced to accept a contract that paid me two bucks for a recording" - or- "I've never received any royalties at all") for their work, I find the support of "I want permission to use other people's creative works to create my own creative works - but I don't want to pay for it" extremely hypocritical. 

Do the work - be superbly creative - but pay your dues.

I fully understand where you come from with regards to copyright etc, something I have always supported and shouted from the rooftops for artists and I fully agree with people paying their dues.  I also take photos, usually acts I go to watch and have suffered from having them "stolen" and used for others own means. 

I really didn't see any issue with the OP from Alison as she was seeking permission and specified as such and really didn't see the need to be so critical.  She has since clarified and hopefully draws a line under it and she gets the help she wants

[Chalky]

54 minutes ago, Paul-s said:

'Authentic' is a very slippery term. Who authorises? What constitutes authentic? Surely anything thats done on the dance-floor to the music is authentic? Do you mean the images that have been promoted over the years via the very limited available collections of dance photos? Backdrop, split, swallow dive etc?

 

Good luck

I think traditional would be a better phrase?

[Fish Fingers]

Make sure you post a photo up here of the model once it's finished Alison. 

[Paul-s]

8 hours ago, Chalky said:

I think traditional would be a better phrase?

Yes.

[Bluebell]

Well I'm back!

Could I get some feedback please.

This figure is not of a real person he has just evolved into this guy!

Thanks 

Alison

[Hooker1951]

13 hours ago, Bluebell said:

Well I'm back!

Could I get some feedback please.

This figure is not of a real person he has just evolved into this guy!

Thanks 

Alison

This guy is definitely doing too many drugs and staying out too late, he needs help from a knowledgeable drug councillor before it’s too late

LoL,

ML