How do you define a collector?

[Amsterdam Russ]

As a follow-on to the interesting thread started by @Fish Fingers, which asks the question "Are not many people on here record collectors", I was struck by how many people have said that although they buy music, tey do not consider themselves to be collectors.

Thread here: 

As examples:

@Daved says "I don't consider myself a collector. I've got quite a lot of records but only buy what I really like at a low price."

@Shinehead says "Never been a collector of records just amassed records by buying them over the years still got a large amount but now just buy CDs..."

@Mickey Finn says "I collect the music that I like, although I can get sidetracked by special series or issues or reissues. Not sure that makes me a "collector", but there seems to be enough music cluttering the house."

@Thinksmart says "I collect only via CDs & legal downloads not vinyl anymore... I have over 80000 songs in the [cloud-based] Soul library..."

The Oxford English Dictionary defines 'collector' as:

"kəˈlɛktə | noun | 1) a person who collects things of a specified type, professionally or as a hobby: an art collector."

That definition would seem to apply to all of the perspectives above, with "things of a specified type" including genre(s) and formats, yet everyone with the exception of Thinksmart doesn't see themselves as someone who collects things.

That begs the question: how do you define a record collector?

What's your take on it?

[Pigeon Thing]

...I think when you drift into collecting things for rarity value ( beyond just being hard to come by) which is often irrespective of the music...print issues on labels / covers springs to mind, the music contained is then secondary but as a collectable item it holds its own...also completists, where you have to have every issue on a label...but also should be noted humans innately are collectors, were hardwired to do it...

[Kenb]

Thread here might interest some...

[Soulman58]

Once you start talking about collectors for me it goes beyond I like that record I want to buy it and I think the cost is OK.  A collector may be prepared to pay lots more because of the rarity or they may collect specific labels irrespective of whether they like it or not.

What I would say is you can be a soul fan and be or not be a collector and that is what binds the audience here together, the rest will be down to personal circumstances and choice.

[Happy Feet]

As a  collector of soul music , I probably purchase up to 10 items pr week be it cd or vinyl .

If I like the tune buy it ,

If I like the album or cd buy it ,

Vinyl 45s have loads but always on the look out for more ,, 

Just wish this bloody postal strike would get sorted out so things can get back to normal,,,,

[Robbk]

9 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

As a follow-on to the interesting thread started by @Fish Fingers, which asks the question "Are not many people on here record collectors", I was struck by how many people have said that although they buy music, they do not collect records.

That begs the question: "How do you define a record collector?"

What's your take on it?

To me, a record collector (or a collector of anything) is:

(1) A person who places a high priority in procuring many items of a given specific or similar type, and

(2) Continues to look for examples of those he or she does not yet possess, and may enjoy

(3) arranging them in particular orders (such as by catalogue issue number and shelf or wall representing city of company headquarters), or groupings (such as by issuing record company and/or record distributor), and may enjoy

(4) continuing to search for them until all the items of that type are procured, and who might

(5) only will except non-original items (later re-issues) as placeholders for until an original can be obtained (and placeholders are not considered part of the collection) *This separates their "collector identity" from their fandom identity.

(6) Is willing to pay more than market rates for items missing from a series, and willing to keep items in such groupings, even when they are liked a lot less than most in the series, or even sometimes not liked at all, just to own the complete series of all that type of thing, and might be

(7) willing to amass what to a "normal" person would seem a ridiculous amount of such items, taking up a ridiculous amount of space (some of which would involve a an extra storage facility for which might also require regular additional periodic payment, and whose acquisition might cost to what a "normal" person, would be an inordinate (or scandalous) amount of monetary assets for which said items would seem unworthy.

 

[Amsterdam Russ]

3 minutes ago, Robbk said:

To me, a record collector (or a collector of anything) is:

No, that's an OCD collector. Oh, wait. It's you who posted that.  

[Michael Bailey]

I think it's easy: Suppose a song you like is on both a rare original record and a better-sounding source (either record or digital source). Would you pay a lot more for the record than for the better sounding source? If so, you are a collector. My sympathies, as a fellow collector.

[Richard Free]

Collecting soul 7s is an endless journey .I am constantly amazed by the amount of quantity and quality that was made especially in the 60’ s .I personally collect only records I like .The collectors I feel sorry for are the label completists .

[Chalky]

4 hours ago, Michael Bailey said:

I think it's easy: Suppose a song you like is on both a rare original record and a better-sounding source (either record or digital source). Would you pay a lot more for the record than for the better sounding source? If so, you are a collector. My sympathies, as a fellow collector.

Can't you collect digital music then?

[Amsterdam Russ]

4 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Can't you collect digital music then?

Eh? The poster posits that a collector would likely pay more for a poorer-sounding original copy of something in favour of a better-sounding copy of the tune on a non-original vinyl release or a digital form of that original tune. There was no exclusion of digital files as a collectable format.

[Chalky]

51 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Eh? The poster posits that a collector would likely pay more for a poorer-sounding original copy of something in favour of a better-sounding copy of the tune on a non-original vinyl release or a digital form of that original tune. There was no exclusion of digital files as a collectable format.

He said..

Quote

Would you pay a lot more for the record than for the better sounding source? If so, you are a collector.

That better sounding source he said was...

Quote

better-sounding copy of the tune on a non-original vinyl release or a digital form of that original tune.

As I read what he posted, buying the rarer original makes you a collector, buying the non original release or a digital form doesn't.

 

[Michael Bailey]

I suppose I was referring to "record collectors." I guess "music collectors" may exist, but I think of them as "music obsessives."

[Stompingsevens]

I collect records, I have a mental illness. 

I have a mental illness, I collect records.

I only speak for myself.............

[Douglaschip]

20 hours ago, Robbk said:

To me, a record collector (or a collector of anything) is:

(1) A person who places a high priority in procuring many items of a given specific or similar type, and

(2) Continues to look for examples of those he or she does not yet possess, and may enjoy

(3) arranging them in particular orders (such as by catalogue issue number and shelf or wall representing city of company headquarters), or groupings (such as by issuing record company and/or record distributor), and may enjoy

(4) continuing to search for them until all the items of that type are procured, and who might

(5) only will except non-original items (later re-issues) as placeholders for until an original can be obtained (and placeholders are not considered part of the collection) *This separates their "collector identity" from their fandom identity.

(6) Is willing to pay more than market rates for items missing from a series, and willing to keep items in such groupings, even when they are liked a lot less than most in the series, or even sometimes not liked at all, just to own the complete series of all that type of thing, and might be

(7) willing to amass what to a "normal" person would seem a ridiculous amount of such items, taking up a ridiculous amount of space (some of which would involve a an extra storage facility for which might also require regular additional periodic payment, and whose acquisition might cost to what a "normal" person, would be an inordinate (or scandalous) amount of monetary assets for which said items would seem unworthy.

 

Ouch think that might be me and lots of others on here

[Mark4767]

collected records for 40 years, bought and sell , i think there is only another 10 years left in the rare soul market as it is thats why im selling up why the going is good ,no good having grands of records when it drops by 80%

[Woodbutcher]

31 minutes ago, Mark4767 said:

collected records for 40 years, bought and sell , i think there is only another 10 years left in the rare soul market as it is thats why im selling up why the going is good ,no good having grands of records when it drops by 80%

That makes you an investor not a collector , subtle difference.

And your estimate of only ten years left means as an investor you'll lose a packet selling up now as prices are still spiralling upwards.  

[Happy Feet]

21 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

That makes you an investor not a collector , subtle difference.

And your estimate of only ten years left means as an investor you'll lose a packet selling up now as prices are still spiralling upwards.  

Very , very true , look what happened back in the 90s , every Wednesday I look at the JM auction results and think if only ,,,

[Still Diggin]

For about forty five years I have suffered from this compulsive disorder which makes me try to purchase a soul record that is better than the worst one I have.  I try to dress it up and throw some light on this problem and in denial call myself a collector. The secret is to keep a  really crap record.

[Mark4767]

NO ILOVE MY RECORDS ,BUT MY WIFE HAS MS NOW AND STRUGLES TO DANCE NOW,AND I THINK WHATS THE POINT IN HAVING AS MUCH MONEY IN RECORDS OR A VILLA IN SPAIN

 

[Kev Cane]

1 hour ago, Still Diggin said:

For about forty five years I have suffered from this compulsive disorder which makes me try to purchase a soul record that is better than the worst one I have.  I try to dress it up and throw some light on this problem and in denial call myself a collector. The secret is to keep a  really crap record.

 

[Benji]

What's a collector?

Oxford dictionary: "a person who collects things of a specified type, professionally or as a hobby."

As this forum is basically about vinyl records, in my opinion no matter how many records you buy, or for whatever reason you buy records, if you buy records you're a collector.

Vinyl isn't any longer the main format. It's a niche. And to a certain extent so are CDs. So if you keep on buying vinyl or CDs you're a collector. If one is only interested in the music and not the format they can easily stream the music.

[Fish Fingers]

The reason I started the original thread was I see so much input on here relating to purchasing vinyl. As someone mentioned - maybe it's these members who are most active?

Any road up....I am impressed by the sheer level of knowledge that members have on the minutae details of soul records (index numbers / label colour / run offs.... whatever - which you dont get with CD/MP3s afaik. 

I know if I had carried on collecting (vinyl) that this wouid be me now, as if I get into something, I tend to go full steam. 

So when I read these posts, I wonder whether to be a bit jealous (as I missed out on a hobby I might have enjoyed) or relieved as it looks quite addictive/obsessive/expensive and I dodged a bullet.

Out of interest, I sold all my 45s in the early 80s. Have a good few of my old (jazz funk etc) 12"/LPs - which never get played. Thousands of assorted mostly soul/Jazz CDs - which also seldom get played. I don't consider myself a collector, as I related this to vinyl??? 

I mostly listen to Internet radio at home (and in the car now ). Primarily Solar and Starpoint Radio. Usually for many hours every day. 

What I love about it, is when djs play something I haven't heard for years and completely forgotten about, which I then track down on YouTube/CD/MP3. This never happened listening to my own collection. It's a very easy and lazy way to hear a wide variety of soul music. 

However, there is just one vinyl 45 I want to buy - Wilson Williams 'Work out fine'. I don't know why that is.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Fish Fingers

[Chalky]

I’ve always collected something ever since I was a little kid.  From the cards in PG Tips (anyone remember them?), football stickers, stamps through to records.  I’m by no means a completist, do collect some labels and have the full run but that isn’t for everything. Just buy what I like now. 
 

I couldn’t care what they are worth, I don’t buy with an eye on what they might make me in the future and don’t really buy to sell.   I’ll buy till I drop then I won’t care what happens to them. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Chalky

[Stompingsevens]

[Ncfc]

Their are of course collectors who collect because they think it's fashionable. 

[Paul Collis]

Check out “Ever since I was a kid” by Fink.  Sums it up perfectly. 

[washlively]

4 hours ago, Fish Fingers said:

The reason I started the original thread was I see so much input on here relating to purchasing vinyl. As someone mentioned - maybe it's these members who are most active?

Any road up....I am impressed by the sheer level of knowledge that members have on the minutae details of soul records (index numbers / label colour / run offs.... whatever - which you dont get with CD/MP3s afaik. 

I know if I had carried on collecting (vinyl) that this wouid be me now, as if I get into something, I tend to go full steam. 

So when I read these posts, I wonder whether to be a bit jealous (as I missed out on a hobby I might have enjoyed) or relieved as it looks quite addictive/obsessive/expensive and I dodged a bullet.

Out of interest, I sold all my 45s in the early 80s. Have a good few of my old (jazz funk etc) 12"/LPs - which never get played. Thousands of assorted mostly soul/Jazz CDs - which also seldom get played. I don't consider myself a collector, as I related this to vinyl??? 

I mostly listen to Internet radio at home (and in the car now ). Primarily Solar and Starpoint Radio. Usually for many hours every day. 

What I love about it, is when djs play something I haven't heard for years and completely forgotten about, which I then track down on YouTube/CD/MP3. This never happened listening to my own collection. It's a very easy and lazy way to hear a wide variety of soul music. 

However, there is just one vinyl 45 I want to buy - Wilson Williams 'Work out fine'. I don't know why that is.

That pretty much sums my curent status. Except I only sold about 50 or so singles in the early noughties and still have a collection. As far as playing them I usually play my 12inch jazz funk/ or digital now at home. Always on the look out for things Ive not heard before on line from 60's to now. I dont miss buying 45's at all it was way to stressful Lol. 

[Amsterdam Russ]

On 17/12/2022 at 10:27, Chalky said:

As I read what he posted, buying the rarer original makes you a collector, buying the non original release or a digital form doesn't.

Not how I read it, but each to their own.

[Amsterdam Russ]

11 hours ago, Benji said:

What's a collector?

Oxford dictionary: "a person who collects things of a specified type, professionally or as a hobby."

Clearly you didn't read my opening post. 

[Benji]

40 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Clearly you didn't read my opening post. 

Obviously not….

[Twoshoes]

Reading this and the other thread that inspired it I've spent time pondering over both questions. As a buyer I don't consider myself a collector but going by the dictionary definition I probably am. When asked about music I don't think I've ever described myself as a collector more " I'm into soul music" but if asked, yes I do have a record collection. I'm even confusing myself.

   Oddly when asked about interests I often reply I collect poetry books, I have approaching 400 and I also collect the Far Side books. The only distinction I can see personally is I have no desire to own every soul record from a particular label etc neither do I wish to own all poetry books though I did go through a phase of wanting to own every book by a particular poet, Roger McGough being one and Jim Burns another plus several others hence I collect their books . Same with the Far Side books, though I have all the Collection Far Sides I would still like to have all the individual books.  

   Why I can describe myself as a collector in one area and not another is the question I've been asking myself since the two threads appeared and I'm still no wiser. I need to sit in a dark room, "I have a collection but I'm not a collector", maybe not a dark room but a padded cell.

[Jnixon]

A collector is someone who buys records regularly and never sells them has always been my definition and as such I don’t consider myself to be one.

Within that definition there’s as many subsections  as there are people who buy records you could argue. 

 

 

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Twoshoes said:

Reading this and the other thread that inspired it I've spent time pondering over both questions. As a buyer I don't consider myself a collector but going by the dictionary definition I probably am. When asked about music I don't think I've ever described myself as a collector more " I'm into soul music" but if asked, yes I do have a record collection. I'm even confusing myself.

   Oddly when asked about interests I often reply I collect poetry books, I have approaching 400 and I also collect the Far Side books. The only distinction I can see personally is I have no desire to own every soul record from a particular label etc neither do I wish to own all poetry books though I did go through a phase of wanting to own every book by a particular poet, Roger McGough being one and Jim Burns another plus several others hence I collect their books . Same with the Far Side books, though I have all the Collection Far Sides I would still like to have all the individual books.  

   Why I can describe myself as a collector in one area and not another is the question I've been asking myself since the two threads appeared and I'm still no wiser. I need to sit in a dark room, "I have a collection but I'm not a collector", maybe not a dark room but a padded cell.

You might not be a label completist but you buy records of a specific genre.  Any amount of records though is a collection, there is no other way really to describe it, or indeed any amount of anything of one type. 

[Robbk]

On 18/12/2022 at 01:00, Chalky said:

I’ve always collected something ever since I was a little kid.  From the cards in PG Tips (anyone remember them?), football stickers, stamps through to records.  I’m by no means a completist, do collect some labels and have the full run but that isn’t for everything. Just buy what I like now. 
 

I couldn’t care what they are worth, I don’t buy with an eye on what they might make me in the future and don’t really buy to sell.   I’ll buy till I drop then I won’t care what happens to them. 

You are, indeed, a true "collector".  People who collect more than one type of item are even more of a "collector" than the people who collect only one type of thing to the "Nth degree".

[Girdwoodinc]

Ask my bank manager 

[Soulman58]

On 18/12/2022 at 01:42, Benji said:

What's a collector?

Oxford dictionary: "a person who collects things of a specified type, professionally or as a hobby."

As this forum is basically about vinyl records, in my opinion no matter how many records you buy, or for whatever reason you buy records, if you buy records you're a collector.

Vinyl isn't any longer the main format. It's a niche. And to a certain extent so are CDs. So if you keep on buying vinyl or CDs you're a collector. If one is only interested in the music and not the format they can easily stream the music.

Does that make me a collector of books then as I've hundreds?  I just but them read them and haven't considered getting rid of them all though I do give some to charity shops now and then.  They are mainly, bar a few, things ive read and placed on a shelf. 

[Soulman58]

On 18/12/2022 at 08:49, Fish Fingers said:

The reason I started the original thread was I see so much input on here relating to purchasing vinyl. As someone mentioned - maybe it's these members who are most active?

Any road up....I am impressed by the sheer level of knowledge that members have on the minutae details of soul records (index numbers / label colour / run offs.... whatever - which you dont get with CD/MP3s afaik. 

I know if I had carried on collecting (vinyl) that this wouid be me now, as if I get into something, I tend to go full steam. 

So when I read these posts, I wonder whether to be a bit jealous (as I missed out on a hobby I might have enjoyed) or relieved as it looks quite addictive/obsessive/expensive and I dodged a bullet.

Out of interest, I sold all my 45s in the early 80s. Have a good few of my old (jazz funk etc) 12"/LPs - which never get played. Thousands of assorted mostly soul/Jazz CDs - which also seldom get played. I don't consider myself a collector, as I related this to vinyl??? 

I mostly listen to Internet radio at home (and in the car now ). Primarily Solar and Starpoint Radio. Usually for many hours every day. 

What I love about it, is when djs play something I haven't heard for years and completely forgotten about, which I then track down on YouTube/CD/MP3. This never happened listening to my own collection. It's a very easy and lazy way to hear a wide variety of soul music. 

However, there is just one vinyl 45 I want to buy - Wilson Williams 'Work out fine'. I don't know why that is.

Because it's a quality tune. 

On 18/12/2022 at 09:00, Chalky said:

I’ve always collected something ever since I was a little kid.  From the cards in PG Tips (anyone remember them?), football stickers, stamps through to records.  I’m by no means a completist, do collect some labels and have the full run but that isn’t for everything. Just buy what I like now. 
 

I couldn’t care what they are worth, I don’t buy with an eye on what they might make me in the future and don’t really buy to sell.   I’ll buy till I drop then I won’t care what happens to them. 

Do you want my details for your will!!!

[Tony Clements]

On 19/12/2022 at 11:37, Jnixon said:

A collector is someone who buys records regularly and never sells them has always been my definition and as such I don’t consider myself to be one.

Within that definition there’s as many subsections  as there are people who buy records you could argue. 

 

 

"and never sells them" - could they be a hoarder? - new thread anyone

1 hour ago, Soulman58 said:

Does that make me a collector of books then as I've hundreds?  I just but them read them and haven't considered getting rid of them all though I do give some to charity shops now and then.  They are mainly, bar a few, things ive read and placed on a shelf. 

I've also got hundreds of books but no way do I consider myself a book collector.

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Soulman58 said:

Does that make me a collector of books then as I've hundreds?  I just but them read them and haven't considered getting rid of them all though I do give some to charity shops now and then.  They are mainly, bar a few, things ive read and placed on a shelf. 

well you certainly have a collection of books

1 hour ago, Soulman58 said:

Do you want my details for your will!!!

[Shinehead]

I definitely do not consider myself a record collector but have amassed loads in my love of soul music , I have collected things in the past and the one thing I had a passion for collecting in the real sense was footballers autographs even going to the point of just turning up at grounds just to get them after the game had finished.

And also risking the wrath of my mother when turning up at home on the last bus after a midweek game.

Thankfully grew out of that when I was about 15 when I started work and my passion for soul music started.

 

 

[Dobber]

Skint

[Twoshoes]

Any views on this one? The exception to the perceived rule? You are new to the Northern Scene, you've got a bit of money behind you, you think "umm I might buy a few records". Instead you splash out on a sizeable collection, what the heck you've got the money.You never buy another record though you do possess a "collection". Does that  make you a collector even though you have in essence bought only one thing, no collecting involved.

[Ncfc]

5 minutes ago, Twoshoes said:

Any views on this one? The exception to the perceived rule? You are new to the Northern Scene, you've got a bit of money behind you, you think "umm I might buy a few records". Instead you splash out on a sizeable collection, what the heck you've got the money.You never buy another record though you do possess a "collection". Does that  make you a collector even though you have in essence bought only one thing, no collecting involved.

Unfortunately quite a few of them about spoiling it for the real working class collectors. 

The real collectors will always have something they haven't got.

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Twoshoes said:

Any views on this one? The exception to the perceived rule? You are new to the Northern Scene, you've got a bit of money behind you, you think "umm I might buy a few records". Instead you splash out on a sizeable collection, what the heck you've got the money.You never buy another record though you do possess a "collection". Does that  make you a collector even though you have in essence bought only one thing, no collecting involved.

Hot boxers or cheque book Djs and they aren't necessarily new to the scene, I can think of plenty like that over the years, even today.

[Woodbutcher]

9 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Hot boxers or cheque book Djs and they aren't necessarily new to the scene, I can think of plenty like that over the years, even today.

Cock-wavers with no imagination , still about , saw this posted only last week ... 

 

[Steve G]

So....we have:

- Music collectors who aren't record collectors

- Record collectors who aren't music collectors

- People with collections of Records who aren't collectors

- Real working class collectors

- Hot box collectors (what were most DJs in the 70s then?)

- Cheque book DJ collectors

-Cock waving collectors

- Hoarders

- Collectors with mental health issues

Have I missed any so far?  

Steve

[Robbk]

On 17/12/2022 at 17:42, Benji said:

What's a collector?

Oxford dictionary: "a person who collects things of a specified type, professionally or as a hobby."

As this forum is basically about vinyl records, in my opinion no matter how many records you buy, or for whatever reason you buy records, if you buy records you're a collector.

Vinyl isn't any longer the main format. It's a niche. And to a certain extent so are CDs. So if you keep on buying vinyl or CDs you're a collector. If one is only interested in the music and not the format they can easily stream the music.

If a person spends much (possibly inordinate amounts of) time searching for, and procuring, streamed music, in the form of digital files, of a given genre and subtype, through purchase, procuring through cost free offer, "stealing" from websites not "offering" said sound files to visitors, requests of friends, and swapping homemade files, wouldn't that person have a collection of digital files (of that particular type of music), and, therefore, shouldn't he or she then be considered a collector of digital files (of that particular type of music ???

(-especially if said person takes great amounts of thought and research, and takes pride in his or her historical knowledge of the genre used in arranging the listings of such files in particular categorical subgroups.)

[Mickey Finn]

12 hours ago, Steve G said:

So....we have:

- Music collectors who aren't record collectors

- Record collectors who aren't music collectors

- People with collections of Records who aren't collectors

- Real working class collectors

- Hot box collectors (what were most DJs in the 70s then?)

- Cheque book DJ collectors

-Cock waving collectors

- Hoarders

- Collectors with mental health issues

Have I missed any so far?  

Steve

That's quite a collection you've got there!

[Soulman58]

This has been an interesting little read.

Off to the shops to add to my mince pie collection.  Any specific recommendations will be gratefully received.