Is there TOO MUCH Soul ?

[Guest Kolla]

I'm really hoping the rain and rugby hangovers kept everyone away from the Sunday all-dayer (Competition Ain't Nothin) and not something else**

Despite a great line-up, numbers were down on the last one .

Will post-up playlists and review of day when i'm feeling a bit more cheerful.

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* I've been told by a few people that there are far too many soul nights and all-dayers now up and down the country.

Wondered what everyone else's thoughts are on this.

[Guest]

Whatcha Coke Kolla!

Shame that you didn't get the numbers on Sunday but in my opinion there is way too much soul events on at the moment. This is not just in the South but all over really. Everyone wants to be a promoter and a dj and not all are good at it.

The cost of going out these days is also very expensive especially in London. People just can't afford to be out all the time plus lots of people are getting older and have lots going on in there lives not just Soul. Example..If i go out to a the club in central london and stay after midnight a cab costs me £30! not to mention maybe £20 on beer plus food,entrance fee etc.

When Alan & I started the CSC there was only one major event on in London really (100club) and now 4/5 years on theres clubs everywhere and only a few cut the mustard. You did everything right for the alldayer..great flyers, top dj's (though i wasn't on there LOL), nice venue and nice people but don't lose faith and get that chin back up.

Remember K People have also come more selective with age and will maybe go only to certain nights and no other. The day of supporting the Scene and going everywhere is over, i think this is for the majority plus there just isn't the numbers on the rare soul scene anymore. The clubs are being replace with arm chairs.

The scene will settle down over the coming years in my opinion and become a more smaller basement pub scene (a bit like the mid 9ts), of course you will have the very odd large venue event but all in all hopefully all the cowboys will vanish.

Hey babe running a big club is not all whats its cracked up to be but you know that. I must laugh at this point as friend of mine (scooterist) went to the first all-dayer and said....i really enjoyed the alldayer but it could of done with a bit of the Cockney Rejects & some two tone like the old days (say no more)...i did laugh. Too many kn*bheads around as well who don't know f*ck all and just want to get p*ssed up and shove crap up there noses and talk b*llocks all night.

Chin up girl, i mean i got to do the CSC on Friday LOL

gregs

[Guest Kolla]

G, you've managed to do the impossible today - made me laugh my head off. Thank you.

You're absolutely right in all respects. The market is pretty saturated now. For events that aren't established (like 6Ts or CSC) I think the key to success is NOT relying on the NS fraternity but trying to get young blood interested.

The nice thing about Herbal as a venue is that its regulars come along to the all-dayer - people who would otherwise be jumping about to House ( ... & occassionally venturing to to Blow-up). These guys love the music, dance to it and ask "what the hell is this? It's great?".

The trouble with NS clubs is that we only tend to flyer other NS clubs and, as you said, our target market are not up for going out 3 times a week and definately not made of money. If new ventures are gonna survive past the first 2 or 3 events, they HAVE to start pulling in punters from outside the established soul set.

We have booked Herbal for another all-dayer February 29th. Hopefully this will give us plenty time to mix up a magic marketing potion.

But thanks Greg for your words of wisdom - pint on it's way to you Friday night .. or are you staying sober for the Grand Finale?

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By the way, with regards to Sunday itself:-

It was a good day and we've had some blinding feedback from those who did show. I'm just feeling sorry for myself. your pal Dave went down storming (- a few die-hards even travelled from Southampton for his Ska set).

And yes, err the beer promotion didn't come through so it was £2.80 - £3.20 for a beer. Not that that stopped those naughty Irish boys getting drunk. QUOTE from Paul Salvatore (Mr Mischief) - "Funniest thing i've seen in ages was Dano and his mate (£3 a pint!) falling over 5 times trying to pick each other up?.

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[Guest]

Thats it chin up and out fighting again!

Remember that rare 6ts soul doesn't belong to the so called Northern Soul club/allnighter Scene really (its only anight out). Since selling some of my rarest records i have found that theres a whole new world of soul fans that are not connected with the Scene at all. These people just collect records and don't go out to Northern soul Clubs. The majority of the crowd on the Scene will be the same people in 5+ years with little or no new people sticking with it. I had a friend of mine come with me to a soul club last year amd she hated it...not the music but the looks from the hardcore (they think they are) soul crowd while she was shaking her thang. The scene is getting too old and to many hang ups..the same people talking the same old Sh1t and listening to the same tunes There are a few exceptions). Go in someones car and you'll know 90% of the tape, go to any venue and you'll know 90% of the tunes, you'll know 90% of the faces....its all the same. What the scene needs is more of a Crossfire style night. I came up with that idea but passed it on to Rob etc cause the CSC was enough for me at the time and they have done a fantastic job and good luck to them. Lots of the old guard won't really like that idea cause they want to have something where they fell comfortable age wise and young people running round is not what they would like. I went to a venue a while back called brigton beach in leicester and i had a great time. Northern,ska,beat,punk,indie....its was great and it was packed. No record dealers, no egos,no pensioners,ok a few p1ss heads plenty of drink & fashion and a good looking girls (i attended with one) & boys and great allround music. Thats what will get the youngster in and interest to get into the music and stick around. I wanted stripers for the Anniversary but the others said CD's yawn!! anyone for a bus pass? pmsl settle down boys i'm only pulling your chain but it is true really LOL

gregs

Ps wheres my helmet ? F*ck is that the time people will think i don't have a life as i'm still at work.

[Guest in town Mikey]

I agree to a certain extent with you greg, but some of the things you dont like about the scene are some of the things I like.

One of the first thing that struck me when I first went to the Stroud alldayer with all the older lads from my town, was the fact that most people in there knew most others in there. I liked the fact it made the room feel SAFE, as opposed to most clubs at that time where you were waiting for someone to get hit with a glass, and praying it wasnt you. Safe definetly, but friendly, not really, I do concede that. This scene can be very inward looking, and that isnt always a bad thing. I know you have turned down offers from mags to cover CSC (you told me that yesterday ;-)), I think its another great part of this scene, the fact that it doesnt court publicity in the wide world, barring a few obvious exceptions. If the room had been UNfriendly, I may not have stayed with it. But within a few visits to soul nights in Gloucestershire, and the Yate allnighter, I had friends from all over the country, bound by the love of the same records, and the feeling knowing those records gave me/us when I/we went back to school/work or my local youth club.

It is elitist. And this was what built the scene, and what has kept it going so long. It is a pure evolution of part of the 60s mod scene, but focusing on the music without all the other things that makes the mod scene slightly different.

As for hearing the same records, it can be great, and at times it can be bloody annoying, depending on the mood. I can contradict myself with the best of them at a club. If someone plays the Proffesionals I moan about an overplayed boring old oldie, and next minute I am dancing to Ronnie McNair, which I think is a beautiful soul record.

I really got into collecting and going weekly during the Stafford, Hinkley, Leicester, 100 club era of the early 80s. So hearing a new record that made the hairs stand up is for me the best part of a soul night. Finding out its by some white boy called Joey Di Lorenzo, would never put me off it, if it was what I like to call Northern Soul. :-)

As for London, it is a saturated market, and as much as I love every club in London, I have had to finally realise that I cant go to every one every month. It means I tend to go to the ones my mates will definetly be at, when I have the money needed for entry, beers, cab etc. This doesnt mean the clubs I dont go to that month are of less value. The scene is wonderfully diverse, and elitist, and inward looking, and friendly once you are percieved as being one of us. And its why after a quarter of a century on I still go.

Another reason is, my hearing is so shot from clubs and allnighters I cant turn my stereo up loud enough at home to hear my records, without the neighbours kicking my door in. hehe.

[Guest]

I dont think there is to much, soul from the view of a dancer,i like the amount of choice that is now available, I seem over the past few months to have come to a burn out with the scene , that has been due to personel problems rather than the music ! i think their might be a problem if your wanting to run your own venue, however like in any buisness, competition is healthy and people are always looking to try out new venues .I agree with kolla that the feeling of a safe place to go has always been an attraction to me, I have never in all the years I have into northern had or seen any trouble, and their isnt many places that you can go, where every man, woman or dj would walk you back to your car if you were on your own, the sceen has lots of truley unique qualities, the 100 club toilet is like "stars in there eyes" i can go out in one outfit ,and at 4oclock come out of the loo as someone totally different!! lol just need the dry ice, if you could ask Ady that would be great!!

[Guest]

Hi Guys,

I think eveyone here has made some good points, I live in Manchester and every weekend I can go somewhere different,

1st Friday Prestwich Longfield Suite OR Heywood Civic Hall

2nd Saturday Lowton Civic Hall

3rd Friday Bury Town Hall or The Ritz in Brighouse (excellent) and the Wilton Ballroom allnighter

3rd Saturday Golbourne Catholic Club.

Also Bolton Anglers.

Stockport Guild Hall

Derek Whatmoughs Sunday night sessions in Horwich.

The Monaco Ballroom Hindley.

Sully's do at the Radcliffe Paper mill.

Theres also new one starting to night at Heaton Park Working mens club in Prestwich.

Thats 12 events in a catchment area of about 25 miles excluding brighouse. and we've got the new allnighter at the CIS starting in December. Which, if it takes off will be great.

Regarding Kolla and her Alldayer (being an avid scooterist) I'd love to come down and hopefully next year will do, the Ritz alldayers in the 70's were excellent, we could do with some more.

I went to 2 Rocket events, the last one being in February when Crossfire was on the same night!!.

I'd love to attend Crossfire (Ady Croasdell is a god) but would only do so if it was a allnighter that ended about 7am, as the first through train back home is 9am, no use getting chucked out of a do at 4am to wait in a station for 5 hours whilst coming down from a soul night.

Regards Irish Greggs comment on "pensioners", where do we draw the line ? I'm 47 and (in my opinion) can still dance like I was 18 (lol) how long have I got left? 2 or 3 years at the most? my Mrs worries that I might crash and burn on the dance floor and not come home one night!!

Regarding hearing the same music week in week out, I must agree dj's seem to play "safe sounds", everybody talks of wigan, what about the Mecca ok so Ian Levines quit but there is so much good stuff out there, there are so many tracks that never or hardly see the light of day .

I have also never seen any trouble at soul do's (well there was almost a riot outside the Kings Hall in Stoke last week but thats another story!!. When you go into the toilets to change you can talk to anyone and get a friendly conversation without having to watching your back.

Just my twopenny worth

Peter

[Guest]

Hi Kolla, Greg and All,

It's interesting to hear all these thoughts on the curernt northern soul 'scene'. It obviously means alot of things to different people.

All the things about where you live, age, money, taste, what venues you have attended all skew our view of things.

I too was initially disappointed by our last herbal alldayer, but like Kolla we are like the birthday boys and girls who don't have all our friends turning up to our party! The first one had 250, the last one 150. But hell it was the worst raining w/e of the year - after a year of great weather winter finally hit home to us soft southerners.

Adey Croasdell told me he saw people that he hadn't seen for 20 years - we must have done something right.

Talk about relaxed atmospheres. All I hear is my single friends coping off with soul mates and having a general souful time.

To me the scene is about friends, quality soul, dancing, records and lambrettas. But that is my personal conclusion after going to Stafford, Allerton, Leicester, Notts Palais, Bradford, Warrington, 100 Club, Ritz, Wheel revivals, French, German and Spainish allnigters, alldayers, weekenders, evening dos etc etc.

But what I enjoy most is still discovering and rediscovering music and people and friends. As you get on, it is magic to hear a record that you always loved but hadn't heard for 20 years - Brian Rae's set was blinding at the last one. I had a head full of wonderful music for a week afterwards, and felt like I was 18 again - I didn't even manage to slip on the dance floor.

What feeling must it be for new blood that haven't heard any of this!

If herbal can provide that then we have suceeded. I don't care if there are too many do's you must stay firm to your feelings and keep the faith - but that said it always pays not to clash. When I ran one of the many prior 100 club warm up events at Canons bar in Tottenham Court road about 10 years ago, we went from sell out to my old school mates smashing up the joint! But we had a laugh..

The next herbal alldayer on February 29th will be a sell out - get yer arses down or I will have to call my old school mates out!

Paul F

[Guest]

I don't know if there are more all-nighters than there were in the 70s or 80s, but it's certainly a lot easier to get a soul night-out together than it used to be that's for sure. More venues have appeared since the masses discovered something called 'dancing' in the rave era, it's easier to get records to play due to all the CD re-issues (not that I approve of DJs who use CDs) and there are lots of different age groups who are into soul sounds now. At least the scene lives on. As Howard Tate would say - get it while you can!

[Guest]

I believe there IS a saturation of soul nights. Me and the Blonde Fox travel up and down the country every weekend. By hook or by crook, by car or by coach, we'll be on a dancefloor somewhere around these fair Isles. But I can't help feel that while I'm getting down to Luther Ingram in London or The Exits in Bury, there's a million other people trying, and often failing, to promote little events around the country for no other gain than their own.

I've been guilty myself of having deluded visions of event grandieur, but since that one off event, I've stopped myself even trying to put anything on.

Part of me wants to welcome the growth of venues (which pop up as often as a claustrophobic mole) with enthusiasm and excitement. But the more I see adverts for Littlebrough Pigeon Fanciers club I wonder what and WHY these things are still cropping up.

People who believe there isn't already a great thriving mix of clubs that appeal to every facet and colour of the soul spectrum must be mad. If you want the rarity and soulful quality of the 100 Club, but don't want to travel south, you go to Wilton and/or The Frobisher.

If you want a good selection of oldies, you go to owt with Kev Roberts involved. If you want modern you go to Lowton/Prestwich and KGH. Breaking R'n'B is the flavour of The Hideaway (lord knows how many tracks I've heard there over the past 6 years that have been picked up by Northern DJ's and subsequently quadrupled in price. We all know the the fools there) and the back rooms at Bury and Lowton.

Dwindling numbers and growing venues. It can't add up. But it's encouraging to know that people support them as they make their tentative steps in clubland. Even the sacred Oxford St. basement was once a fledgling soul club.

In the end, we all know how many events are on around the country. If you don't, take a look at the events calender on this site. We also know how many people travel and attend on a regular basis. Knowing these factors and still attempting to put events on, you take the risks. You'll find that those coming out jubilant are usually the ones offering things no-one else does.

If you don't try you'll never know. Good luck and make sure you provide quality. People don't mind laying out for quality.....