John Anderson - Soul Bowl

[Fiftyboiledeggs]

Would it be right say one of the most influential figures in black music in the Sixties and Seventies?

If you think about his discoveries and the ripple effect, he'd be hard to beat.

I don't think his  contribution has been fully recognised by the mainstream culture.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Fiftyboiledeggs

[Mal C]

Like most on here I bought 45's from John, and from what I have heard him say on a certain film on you tube, is he wasnt actually interested in being known to mainstream culture... I think that's correct...

[Johndelve]

His contribution to finding records is unparalleled, without doubt.  A very good bloke and I have a huge respect for what he did. But he didn't actually make any music and so I would be extremely wary of saying that he was "one of the most influential figures in black music in the Sixties and Seventies".

The singers, musicians, producers, writers etc. who actually were involved with making the records deserve that accolade. Without them there would have been no John Anderson. Indeed, without them there would be none of us. 

[Fiftyboiledeggs]

I'm not too sure about that. Your construct that in any creative field you cannot exert influence-" but he didn't actually make any music " does not stand up to scrutiny.

Here's a few influencers for starters on black music who didn't make any music:

Jim Stewart, Estelle Axton, Alan Freed.

You could go through all the arts, painting, literature, music  and find many influential figures who either created a scene or propelled it, into a sub culture or mainstream, without making the product.

 

Anderson unearthed and rescued many black artsits from obscurity. His tenacity also tailored the music that found it's way on to the dancefloor and  shaped listening tastes throughout the land. So in my mind he was a major influence in black music.

 

 

[Johndelve]

I specifically used the word "producer" in my reply. Clearly, as a producer, writer and record company founder, Jim Stewart's influence on "black music" was vastly greater than John Anderson's. And I don't doubt that John would agree. 

John's ability to find records was second to none. And his importance to record collectors and D.J.s in this country was enormous, too.. He accomplishments are beyond doubt.

But I still disagree that he was one of the most influential figures in black music in the sixties and seventies.

None of the artists we love would have had the faintest idea who he was when they were cutting records in the sixties and seventies. Later on, when he was involved with Grapevine , it was a different story when he did indeed get involved with actively helping with releases.

So, in short, huge respect to him. But he had NO influence on what singers were actually cutting in the decades you mention. Nor did he help get them the recognition that Alan Freed did.  

[Fiftyboiledeggs]

Alan Freed was no producer but he was one of  the most  influential in R and B.

You do not need any  influence on what the artist is making, you are missing the point.

Anderson not only had huge impact on Northern but on the Rare Groove scene in Lonon.All these ripple effects from him, led to people like Snowboy, Acid Jazz and  countless others who ventured to him for records. They in turn created a scene. 

Putting, John Anderson aside, you are totally wrong if you think an influencer has to be invovled in the making of a product, to have an  influence in that field.

 

Keb Darge massively influenced  hip -hop is a good example.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Fiftyboiledeggs

[Amsterdam Russ]

2 hours ago, Fiftyboiledeggs said:

Would it be right say one of the most influential figures in black music in the Sixties and Seventies?

If you think about his discoveries and the ripple effect, he'd be hard to beat.

I don't think his  contribution has been fully recognised by the mainstream culture.

He was a wholesaler and retailer - shipping hundreds of thousands of records from the USA to the UK. What didn't sell, he bundled into affordable 'soul packs'. Sure, he tipped off people about rarities or potentially great unknowns at that time, but bear in mind he was doing this for the whole of the 'soul' community, not just the 'Northern Soul' aspect of it. What DJs, collectors and dealers did with the stuff they got from him was entirely down to themselves. He did what he did without ego. So many threads on here - and elsewhere - have commented on how vinyl rarities of recent years came out of his cheap stock - "Wow, I got this in a Soul Bowl soul pack for 20p back in blah, blah, blah..."

That's entirely down to musical tastes, not JA's foresight - otherwise he wouldn't have lumped them into soul packs in the first place.

Businessman first - soul music fan second.

Regardless - an absolute legend for his commitment to bringing that music to the UK (Seems no one is aware he often used to go out on Stateside trips with an equally respected record dealer from Belgium. Guess who'd get the 'popcorn' - the stuff that later became popular as the 100 Club/Stafford beat ballads).

[Frankie Crocker]

3 hours ago, Fiftyboiledeggs said:

Would it be right say one of the most influential figures in black music in the Sixties and Seventies?

If you think about his discoveries and the ripple effect, he'd be hard to beat.

I don't think his  contribution has been fully recognised by the mainstream culture.

No, not really.

John sought out, stockpiled, shipped, distributed and sold 60’s and 70’s records for commercial reasons. Along the way, his discoveries boosted the collections of influential DJ’s who shaped the UK soul scene.

Essentially, John salvaged 45’s ignored by USA mainstream culture and directed them towards a sub-culture that appreciated them. Mainstream culture is an irrelevancy - it never understood what actually happened and still misrepresents this today.

Serious record collectors today are still in awe of John’s varied contributions and that’s good enough for those who knew him - John was very grounded and modest so wasn’t too bothered about mainstream culture.

[Johndelve]

Alan Freed was no producer but he was one of  the most  influential in R and B.

You do not need any  influence on what the artist is making, you are missing the point.

Anderson not only had huge impact on Northern but on the Rare Groove scene in Lonon.All these ripple effects from him, led to people like Snowboy, Acid Jazz and  countless others who ventured to him for records. They in turn created a scene. 

Putting, John Anderson aside, you are totally wrong if you think an influencer has to be invovled in the making of a product, to have an  influence in that field.

 

You are right. My response was clumsy in this regard. Of course DJ's, promoters, writers etc. can have a huge impact in music. But I would still argue that, using the criteria of "influencers", people like, say, John Richbourg, Frankie Crocker, even Tony Blackburn,  were significantly more 'influential' in terms of popularising black music, making hits etc, than the great John A.

[Chalky]

Regardless how you look at it, although we didn't know it at the time John had a massive influence on British (and European) youth culture at the time. Not just Northern but as stated Rare Groove, Boogie etc.  He knew which records would suit which venue, he was feeding Djs at Cleethorpes and Wigan and both had their own sound.  He was feeding Djs at other venues in later years.  They in turn helped him shift stock he had if a particular record went big.  

Business?  Yes but he was also influencing.  He wasn't alone in this as others were doing the same just not on the scale that Soul Bowl was.

[Steve G]

Just to correct a couple of observations on here. John is always remembered for THAT new romantic LP in Manchester. But years before that, he was producing music. Initially through his relationship with Boby Franklin and James Mitchell (of the Detroit Emeralds), who were early contacts of his in the 70s. James was the guy who arranged his accommodation in Detroit when John visited and along with Boby made some introductions to John. Incidentally, It was in one such guest house that he discovered Ronnie McNeir on De-To in a rack of records he found and played through in the guest house lounge one evening.

When I visited once, he told me he had been working with Ingram Family / Ingram on a new album, and I know there were other records he was involved in as well. So it is factually incorrect to say he was never involved in record production back then. Incidentally, beyond the list and visitors, he also supplied import copies of records to the main import shops in the 70s /80s. One title he mentioned to me (I think) was "Body Fusion," which he sold 2,000 copies of, mostly through UK record stores, rather than via his list.

And to clear up another point, Marissa's brother (who worked at Soul Bowl in the 70s) told me that anything where there was more than 25 copies, that wasn't an obvious northern title for the "front page", went into soul packs as a matter of course. At the time, a lot of titles obviously were deemed "too slow" or "mid tempo" to sell in quantity via the list.

Steve   

Edited October 22, 2022 by Steve G