...IS THIS A RED LIGHT DISTRICT?!x...I hope not....!x

[Chalky]

All the events Sooty mention the playing of RLSD are youth clubs, slipper events, weddings etc, events that are of no interest to what happens on the soul scene.  They don't influence the scene or any of the   25 fragments of the scene.  They are the kind of events for "normal" people with a bit of cheesy northern thrown in.

[Amsterdam Russ]

4 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Mainstream?  I haven't heard RLSD at a mainstream event.

We've (SoulSource) had this discussion about that tune before - and I recall mentioning it was a "biggie" in the South East (of England) in the 80s. In the same way that certain tunes were "youth club sounds" up North in the early 70s, so this particular one was a staple of us 2nd-generation Moddy types who then "discovered Northern Soul" in the very early 80s. AND - it was a disco hit at the same time. I certainly remember it from soul nights, youth clubs and weddings!!

Back in the days of the Kent/Sussex/Surrey scene (Kim Styles/Kev Griffin/Graham Sage/Keith Rylatt/Jo Wallace/Andy Ruw, et al), all sorts of stuff was played - and all enjoyed at the time.

[Timbo58]

You do hear RLSD and similar at some south west events but only very, very occasionally. I don't think I've heard it played out this year yet.

It does tend to be those events that tread a fine line (whether by design or in error) margining into handbaggers territory to be fair.

As Russ says, it was very popular indeed in the South in the 80's a real scooter boy compilation anthem in fact.

I don't have it and wouldn't play it, there's plenty of overplayed but still genuine soul to keep those type of audiences happy without having to merge into pop.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Timbo58

[Tomangoes]

30 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Care to enlighten us all?

Some promoters incorporate 24 of them under one roof....

I'm sticking with the 25th....

Ed

[Amsterdam Russ]

10 minutes ago, Chalky said:

youth clubs, slipper events, weddings etc, events that are of no interest to what happens on the soul scene.  They don't influence the scene or any of the   25 fragments of the scene.  

Youth clubs are of no interest to the soul scene? Really? 

Youth clubs are where I learned about "the scene" as an immature teen in the very late 70s/early 80s in the South East of England (although, admittedly, I didn't learn a lot). And weren't youth clubs integral to the development of "the scene" in its nascent days?

Can't say I know what a "slipper event" is... and not sure I want to ask!  

Anyone able to list the 25 sections of the scene? Is this like a newly fragmented version of the Top 500, but with sub-divisions?

[Chalky]

16 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

We've (SoulSource) had this discussion about that tune before - and I recall mentioning it was a "biggie" in the South East (of England) in the 80s. In the same way that certain tunes were "youth club sounds" up North in the early 70s, so this particular one was a staple of us 2nd-generation Moddy types who then "discovered Northern Soul" in the very early 80s. AND - it was a disco hit at the same time. I certainly remember it from soul nights, youth clubs and weddings!!

Back in the days of the Kent/Sussex/Surrey scene (Kim Styles/Kev Griffin/Graham Sage/Keith Rylatt/Jo Wallace/Andy Ruw, et al), all sorts of stuff was played - and all enjoyed at the time.

Of course Youth Clubs are part of our history, but it was the northern that was played interested us, not the pop.
I haven't done moddy type or scooter events I'm afraid so can't comment what was played at those kinda events.  Well I've been to a few mod nights but they were pretty hard core if you like and wouldn't entertain Billy Ocean.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Chalky

[Chalky]

2 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

I'm sticking with the 25th....

Ed

Me too I reckon

[Steve G]

24 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

 

Back in the days of the Kent/Sussex/Surrey scene (Kim Styles/Kev Griffin/Graham Sage/Keith Rylatt/Jo Wallace/Andy Ruw, et al), all sorts of stuff was played - and all enjoyed at the time.

Funny old world Russ. I was in that part of the world until 1982, I can assure you that Kev, Kim and myself never played "RLSD" at any of our events.  So it must have been after then.

[Amsterdam Russ]

2 minutes ago, Chalky said:

I haven't done moddy type or scooter events I'm afraid so can't comment what was "bi" at thos kinda events.  Well I've been to a few mod nights but they were pretty hard core if you like and wouldn't entertain Billy Ocean.

Back then - in SE England - that's the only type of club I knew. Mod (2nd-generation) was the "gateway drug" so to speak!  But yes, I have to say that back then Billy Ocean's "Red Light Spells Danger" was what might be called the equivalent of a Wigan monster. And I readily admit to dancing to it at youth clubs, mod clubs and soul nights back in those days.

In fact, when I last heard it (over here in NL some 35/40 years later), it actually caused something of a thrill. Maybe that's just nostalgia, but I still rate it as a really good tune. I couldn't dance to it, though. The legs and knees couldn't cope! 

[Amsterdam Russ]

1 minute ago, Steve G said:

Funny old world Russ. I was in that part of the world until 1982, I can assure you that Kev, Kim and myself never played "RLSD" at any of our events.  So it must have been after then.

It was ubiquitous back then (I moved from Maidstone to London mid-84). Maybe standards dropped when you left - although I wouldn't tell Kim that. 

[Chalky]

Youth Club, the very term is often derogatory when used, well not maybe not derogatory but it often refers to the kinda a music you wouldn't hear at a proper event.  When something cheesy is played it is often described as youth club sounds.

[Jez Jones]

32 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Youth clubs are of no interest to the soul scene? Really? 

Youth clubs are where I learned about "the scene" as an immature teen in the very late 70s/early 80s in the South East of England (although, admittedly, I didn't learn a lot). And weren't youth clubs integral to the development of "the scene" in its nascent days?

Can't say I know what a "slipper event" is... and not sure I want to ask!  

Anyone able to list the 25 sections of the scene? Is this like a newly fragmented version of the Top 500, but with sub-divisions?

Youth clubs have  NO link to the 'scene' apart from maybe hearing a few tunes

The 'scene' in inverted commas in the early days was much much more than a few tunes and certainly not a 'learned' activity at a youth club

In fact I suppose those that frequented a youth club were the polar opposites of 'scene' dwellers    ..unless I'm dreaming !!!!

[Amsterdam Russ]

3 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Youth Club, the very term is often derogatory when used, well not maybe not derogatory but it often refers to the kinda a music you wouldn't hear at a proper event.  When something cheesy is played it is often described as youth club sounds.

Yes, I know what you mean. For me, Youth Club sounds are exactly that - the sounds of one's youth. Cheesy is  applied in hindsight. But at the same time, those Youth Club sounds were often the ones I identified with when I first went to the "big boys'" nights.

Funnily enough, a year after moving to NL, I found out about the Amsterdam Soul Club. I had no idea or any expectation there might be a regular Northern Soul night over here. First time I went all I heard was exactly those Youth Club sounds. It was great as I hadn't heard most of them in years, and hearing them in the exotic surrounds of Amsterdam added a certain excitement. Mind you, a few guest spots behind the decks and I like to think I helped move things on a bit - although whether that's true, I can't say. 

[Amsterdam Russ]

3 minutes ago, Jez Jones said:

Youth clubs have  NO link to the 'scene' apart from maybe hearing a few tunes

The 'scene' in inverted commas in the early days was much much more than a few tunes and certainly not a 'learned' activity at a youth club

In fact I suppose those that frequented a youth club were the polar opposites of 'scene' dwellers    ..unless I'm dreaming !!!!

Hmmm, from what people around in the late 60s and early 70s have told me, youth clubs were a feeder park - a "gateway drug" - to the grown-up world of nighters and hard-core underground soul. Everyone has a different perspective about what happened then, of course.

Although my entry into "the scene" came only as recently as the early 80s, it was most definitely due to the music I heard and the people I met at my local youth club.

[Steve G]

2 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

It was ubiquitous back then (I moved from Maidstone to London mid-84). Maybe standards dropped when you left - although I wouldn't tell Kim that. 

I was gone up north (well Peterborough) by mid 82. Kim, Kev and I put on the first northern nights in West Kent and we certainly did not play chart records. Wouldn't have dreamt of it, the whole point of being on the NS scene (as it was) was to get as far away as possible from commercial chart music.  

Edited July 26, 2022 by Steve G

[Jez Jones]

21 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Hmmm, from what people around in the late 60s and early 70s have told me, youth clubs were a feeder park - a "gateway drug" - to the grown-up world of nighters and hard-core underground soul. Everyone has a different perspective about what happened then, of course.

Although my entry into "the scene" came only as recently as the early 80s, it was most definitely due to the music I heard and the people I met at my local youth club.

Well that isn't how I recall...but as you say everyone has a different perspective......but from my experience I seem to remember that scene activities could not be carried out in youth clubs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....in fact you probably got more scene goers from Risley YOI than a youth club

[Modernsoulsucks]

3 hours ago, Jez Jones said:

Well that isn't how I recall...but as you say everyone has a different perspective......but from my experience I seem to remember that scene activities could not be carried out in youth clubs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....in fact you probably got more scene goers from Risley YOI than a youth club

Just think it depends on which youth club you went to in late 60's.

Only takes a couple of people to be into soul music [not necessarily embryonic Northern] and there's your gateway.

Certainly my experience. I even dj'd once or twice at a local YC in Hazel Grove playing Motown, Atlantic/Stax and club/Northern like Billy Butler, Fascinations, Tommy Neal, Darrell Banks, Gene Chandler that were still on the shelves back then.

One time the YC must have booked a dj and from what I remember it was early Northern/rare/club whatever like Al Kent and Contours.

 

[Jez Jones]

29 minutes ago, Modernsoulsucks said:

Just think it depends on which youth club you went to in late 60's.

Only takes a couple of people to be into soul music [not necessarily embryonic Northern] and there's your gateway.

Certainly my experience. I even dj'd once or twice at a local YC in Hazel Grove playing Motown, Atlantic/Stax and club/Northern like Billy Butler, Fascinations, Tommy Neal, Darrell Banks, Gene Chandler that were still on the shelves back then.

One time the YC must have booked a dj and from what I remember it was early Northern/rare/club whatever like Al Kent and Contours.

 

yeah not disagreeing...but also it depends what type of YC you went to.....my memories were of table tennis, smoking behind the bike sheds and a gerard record player in the corner........yeah that random !!!!!!

organised 'disco' type activities were few and far between....and i was only 15/20 miles from Hazel Grove !!!

So the introduction to what we know circa 1970 scene was hanging around doing things with via older teens....not via a youth club

Edited July 26, 2022 by Jez Jones
mistake

[Kenb]

I guess typical YC’s weren’t entry to Soul for us, ( me) but maybe bizarrely to some on here “nights” out in Church premises put on as YC type “do’s”. My Memory plays tricks but a few I can think of we’re St Bernadette’s, St Kentigerns. Also, as has been on topic before, the small “ clubs above Burton the Taylor’s and many others”. Including pubs…yup pubs.

we would never go to a “table tennis” sort of YC.

[Tomangoes]

8 hours ago, Jez Jones said:

Youth clubs have  NO link to the 'scene' apart from maybe hearing a few tunes

The 'scene' in inverted commas in the early days was much much more than a few tunes and certainly not a 'learned' activity at a youth club

In fact I suppose those that frequented a youth club were the polar opposites of 'scene' dwellers    ..unless I'm dreaming !!!!

Maybe not in your neck of the woods, but they were a big part of the scene in South Yorkshire.

Dean Roach had a "budget" from the youth leader to buy records! Boylans obliged, and guest djs used to show up!

At 14 I was going to CWG and plenty more were off to Wigan.

We could not get enough Northern Soul.

Granted you had to mix and match weakspot with its all over and interplay with your not my kind, but hey ho, it filled a void.

Happy days.

Ed

[Ian Parker]

same as the above post,   our 'youthy' was where we heard records for the first time.     our peers would bring their records to the side room,  we had a good system to play them on and we had a lot of people, week in week out, dancing to these sounds.   i heard songs ranging from: susan coleman,  to james coit, to the ellingtons, to the Capreez.     we had a bloody good thing going.    when you're 15 and itching to go to a proper venue,  believe me,  these nights got you buzzing. 

    i dont mind admitting it......

[Jez Jones]

11 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

Maybe not in your neck of the woods, but they were a big part of the scene in South Yorkshire.

Dean Roach had a "budget" from the youth leader to buy records! Boylans obliged, and guest djs used to show up!

At 14 I was going to CWG and plenty more were off to Wigan.

We could not get enough Northern Soul.

Granted you had to mix and match weakspot with its all over and interplay with your not my kind, but hey ho, it filled a void.

Happy days.

Ed

I think maybe we're at crossed purposes here.....it seems the 'scene' is depicted as northern soul and records.......as I've mentioned...it was much much more than that.......I knew people who were on the 'scene'who didn't care for soul music.....regular nighter goers who enjoyed other aspects of the 'scene'

There was a perhaps more of a link from the terraces to the scene. 

I think (and its a looooooong time ago  ) its too convenient to say youth clubs produced hardened regular nighter goers !!

Imagine a kid in a sweet shop and records were just one sweet out of 20 odd jars of sweets !!  ...its probably a bad example using sweets.lol...but you get me drift

Anyway back to Billy Ocean...massive disco track....young ladies dashed to the floor....I remember it LOUD AND PROUD from TOTW Stafford way before the nighters !!

Actually on reflection..it was one of those 'European' hits as well......Tramps nightclub in Benidorm ....you know who you are lol   !!

AS for plays on N.Soul circuit......can't see it being a match for the top sounds of that era !!

 

[Tomangoes]

11 minutes ago, Jez Jones said:

41 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

Maybe not in your neck of the woods, but they were a big part of the scene in South Yorkshire.

Dean Roach had a "budget" from the youth leader to buy records! Boylans obliged, and guest djs used to show up!

At 14 I was going to CWG and plenty more were off to Wigan.

We could not get enough Northern Soul.

Granted you had to mix and match weakspot with its all over and interplay with your not my kind, but hey ho, it filled a void.

Happy days.

Ed

Expand  

I think maybe we're at crossed purposes here.....it seems the 'scene' is depicted as northern soul and records.......as I've mentioned...it was much much more than that.......I knew people who were on the 'scene'who didn't care for soul music.....regular nighter goers who enjoyed other aspects of the 'scene'

There was a perhaps more of a link from the terraces to the scene. 

Northern soul records, fashion, dance styles, youth clubs, soul nights, all nighters, all dayers, scarborough weekenders, live acts, attitude, friendliness, travel. 75 to 79. Back end of the hey days of course...

But..

Not sure what was in your local scene, or era, and nobody I knew was in our 'scene' who did not like the music. 

We are talking about the Northern soul scene? Right? Forgive me if you are talking about another scene.

Ed

[Bonzo100]

First heard northern at school,we played records instead of having re,big sounds then,landslide Tony Clarke,afternoon of the rhino and the flasher but never classed rlsd as northern,ktf 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Bonzo100

[Jez Jones]

19 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

Northern soul records, fashion, dance styles, youth clubs, soul nights, all nighters, all dayers, scarborough weekenders, live acts, attitude, friendliness, travel. 75 to 79. Back end of the hey days of course...

But..

Not sure what was in your local scene, or era, and nobody I knew was in our 'scene' who did not like the music. 

We are talking about the Northern soul scene? Right? Forgive me if you are talking about another scene.

Ed

yes the northern soul scene....or maybe better described as the allnighter scene...because back in the day...that was it

[Bonzo100]

The scene as we knew it went about80-81 so many fragments,we are all getting older so enjoy it while you can,they can never take your memories

[Tomangoes]

3 hours ago, Jez Jones said:

yes the northern soul scene....or maybe better described as the allnighter scene...because back in the day...that was it

The all nighter scene? Massive respect for your mates who did not even like the music, but week in week out, went along to all nighters.

I don't recall a single person who went with me to cleethorpes Wakefield Sheffield Wigan blackpool Rotherham Derby or Donny all nighters who did not like the music.

TSWONS indeed.

Ed

 

[Amsterdam Russ]

5 hours ago, Tomangoes said:

Back end of the hey days of course...

Pardon? While 1979 might have marked the end of a hey-day for you, a year or two later saw mine start - and forty years on, it still ain't over. Looking through the lens of such nostalgic glasses must make the 'good old days' seem so very, very far away for you now, which I think is sad. Of course, I 'wasn't there in the day' - and in many respects I wish I could have been - but the scene I came into was (and still is, depending on certain factors) vibrant, healthy, packed, innovative, and it set the tone for the decades ahead with its musical progressiveness. 

[Geeselad]

17 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Care to enlighten us all?

I'll have a go; 

Oldies baggies crew- actually went out back in day northern oldies 

Oldies divs- dance to owt

Modern - 70's oldies

Crossover- actually play a lot of above to claim it's different

R and b/ mod thing

Upfront- funky gospel garage ect all 60's

Upfront- progressive- actually play stuff from 60- contemporary

Modern soulful House

Rare soul 

Divide them into north south east and west regions and your into 20+ easy.

[Amsterdam Russ]

28 minutes ago, Geeselad said:

Oldies divs- dance to owt

Oh, dear. More "divs" - and used as a derogatory term for people who just like to dance to anything. I thought people who did that "to owt" were just enjoying themselves.

[Tomangoes]

3 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Pardon? While 1979 might have marked the end of a hey-day for you, a year or two later saw mine start - and forty years on, it still ain't over. Looking through the lens of such nostalgic glasses must make the 'good old days' seem so very, very far away for you now, which I think is sad. Of course, I 'wasn't there in the day' - and in many respects I wish I could have been - but the scene I came into was (and still is, depending on certain factors) vibrant, healthy, packed, innovative, and it set the tone for the decades ahead with its musical progressiveness. 

Well Russ, I joined the journey in 75 via the youth club scene and a year later the nighter scene....CWG

But some would argue it was already burnt out and commercialised by then. It might have been for them.

It wasn't for me, and obviously by 1982 it wasn't for you, and in fact today's 14 year old lucky enough to have been introduced to it...it won't be for them.

Ed

 

[Leicester Boy]

The idea that certain groups of people are div's because they dress a certain way or dance a certain way always amuses me, have you ever thought what punks thought of soulies or other youth cultures made of us. Following your heart and love don't make you a div. Divs don't care for their families or rob old people. Great discussion though, plenty of interest stemming from a div record.

[Tobytyke]

Compare Jackie Wilson a legend of the scene

"It only happens",which is currently being auctioned . I would say that is as much of a pop record as Billy Ocean .written by two highly regarded British writers of pop music but is very highly rated on the scene.There is no right or wrong it's all a matter of opinion.

Just enjoy what you like and dont worry what other people think. 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Tobytyke

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Leicester Boy said:

The idea that certain groups of people are div's because they dress a certain way or dance a certain way always amuses me, have you ever thought what punks thought of soulies or other youth cultures made of us. Following your heart and love don't make you a div. Divs don't care for their families or rob old people. Great discussion though, plenty of interest stemming from a div record.

Divs has always been a term to describe “normal” people not other soul music lovers.  A bit like a muggle who is one without magic (for those who know their Harry Potter). 

[Chalky]

10 hours ago, Bonzo100 said:

The scene as we knew it went about80-81 so many fragments,we are all getting older so enjoy it while you can,they can never take your memories

Might have gone for you but it was still a vibrant magical scene for many others.  Tons of great records discovered after ten demise of your scene.  

[Leicester Boy]

2 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Divs has always been a term to describe “normal” people not other soul music lovers.  A bit like a muggle who is one without magic (for those who know their Harry Potter). 

Probably regional chalky, not used a lot nowadays round here. Always associated with scousers.

[Tomangoes]

Always a term for fringe northern soulies I'm recollection.

Not quite made the cut for the elite group who judge them.

Ed

[Chalky]

7 minutes ago, Leicester Boy said:

Probably regional chalky, not used a lot nowadays round here. Always associated with scousers.

It was all those in normal clubs we went to niters to get away from for us.  I guess it did have other meanings for other groups and was something adopted by soulies?

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Tobytyke said:

Compare Jackie Wilson a legend of the scene

"It only happens",which is currently being auctioned . I would say that is as much of a pop record as Billy Ocean .written by two highly regarded British writers of pop music but is very highly rated on the scene.There is no right or wrong it's all a matter of opinion.

Just enjoy what you like and dont worry what other people think. 

 

 

Can you compare the two? It Only Happens for me is out and out soul music, production, lyrics and delivery.  The other is simply pop for me. 

[Supercorsa]

1 hour ago, Tomangoes said:

Always a term for fringe northern soulies I'm recollection.

Not quite made the cut for the elite group who judge them.

Ed

The definition of Elite:

A bunch of w@nkers who think they're the Bee's Knees!

[Tomangoes]

53 minutes ago, Supercorsa said:

The definition of Elite:

A bunch of w@nkers who think they're the Bee's Knees!

The irony...

So desperate to be accepted into the elite as young uns....and with maturity, now realising what a pointless endeavour!

Still, that's adolescence all over.

Ed

[Bonzo100]

4 hours ago, Chalky said:

Might have gone for you but it was still a vibrant magical scene for many others.  Tons of great records discovered after ten demise of your scene.  

I’m still in to it but I believe around that time it disintegrated people had family’s etc the scooter scene imo brought it back a bit

[Bonzo100]

4 hours ago, Chalky said:

It was all those in normal clubs we went to niters to get away from for us.  I guess it did have other meanings for other groups and was something adopted by soulies?

We had a club in Norwich devoted to northern called peoples only lasted for five years but what a club

Edited July 27, 2022 by Bonzo100

[Geeselad]

8 hours ago, Chalky said:

Can you compare the two? It Only Happens for me is out and out soul music, production, lyrics and delivery.  The other is simply pop for me. 

He's spot on it's just as poppy as BO

[Shinehead]

3 hours ago, Geeselad said:

He's spot on it's just as poppy as BO

Got to agree on that , best record Gilbert O'Sullivan never made and he was shocking.

[Chalky]

3 hours ago, Geeselad said:

He's spot on it's just as poppy as BO

 

11 minutes ago, Shinehead said:

Got to agree on that , best record Gilbert O'Sullivan never made and he was shocking.

Its a great 45, Aretha’s take too.  

[Shinehead]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

 

Its a great 45, Aretha’s take too.  

Respect your taste in music and with most of your posts but I will differ on this record by Jackie or Aretha

[Tomangoes]

Interesting point.

If Jackie Wilson sang RLSD...would it be ok?

If Willie Ocean sang Haunted House...would it be ok?

Reach out for me...BB....stunning by Roy, Lou, and Dionne...but Michael Ball..yuck.

Now I'm confused:)

Ed

Edited July 27, 2022 by Tomangoes
Spello

[Geeselad]

3 hours ago, Chalky said:

 

Its a great 45, Aretha’s take too.  

I'm not saying it's not a good song but it's so light it could blow away, I can imagine 5th dimension doing a version or Patti Boulaye, in some ways it's more poppy than BO. but we are comparing pop and soul from different years, must be ten years between the two songs. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Geeselad

[Leicester Boy]

7 hours ago, Tomangoes said:

Interesting point.

If Jackie Wilson sang RLSD...would it be ok?

If Willie Ocean sang Haunted House...would it be ok?

Reach out for me...BB....stunning by Roy, Lou, and Dionne...but Michael Ball..yuck.

Now I'm confused:)

Ed

I would venture to say it certainly would be ok, great point.