Earl Jackson/ Vontastics

[Wheelsville1]

When i listen to The Vontastics-Never let your love grow cold and Earl Jackson i hear close similarities to the lead singer of the Vontastics.Could they both be the same singer as Earl Jacksons true identity has never been discovered.? 

[The Yank]

According to Bob Pruter's book "Chicago Soul" the Vontastics were Bobby Newsome, Kenneth Gholar, Jose Holmes and Raymond Penn. I hear the similarities in their voices and it's possible one of the group members could have changed their name and became Earl Jackson. 

[Wheelsville1]

5 minutes ago, The Yank said:

According to Bob Pruter's book "Chicago Soul" the Vontastics were Bobby Newsome, Kenneth Gholar, Jose Holmes and Raymond Penn. I hear the similarities in their voices and it's possible one of the group members could have changed their name and became Earl Jackson. 

Thanks for the reply,this is what i was thinking.

[Robbk]

20 hours ago, The Yank said:

According to Bob Pruter's book "Chicago Soul" the Vontastics were Bobby Newsome, Kenneth Gholar, Jose Holmes and Raymond Penn. I hear the similarities in their voices and it's possible one of the group members could have changed their name and became Earl Jackson. 

I don't hear ENOUGH similarity between the two voices to think the odds are decent that Earl Jackson was a Vontastic under a different name.  I think it is possible, but not very likely.

[Wheelsville1]

2 hours ago, Robbk said:

I don't hear ENOUGH similarity between the two voices to think the odds are decent that Earl Jackson was a Vontastic under a different name.  I think it is possible, but not very likely.

Maybe its wishful thinking on my part.

[Robbk]

10 hours ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Maybe its wishful thinking on my part.

It's a shame that Bob Abrahamian (may he rest in peace) never had the opportunity to interview any member of The Vontastics, for whatever reason.  He interviewed almost all the Chicago Soul creators of their time.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Robbk

[Blackcab]

4 hours ago, Robbk said:

It's a shame that Bob Abrahamian (may he rest in peace) never had the opportunity to interview any member of The Vontastics, for whatever reason.  He interview almost all the Chicago Soul creators of their time.

Bob had the contact information for Bobby Newsome from the Vontastics which he passed along to me, with the warning that apparently he was quite old and out of it. I called them up, it was a bit of an awkward interaction they were living in some type of old folks home and I had to convince the staff member who answered to let me speak with him first. Once I got on the line with Bobby he didn't have much interest in talking with me about his music unfortunately, unless I was enough of a big shot, which I definitely was not and had not interest in convincing otherwise.

I let Bob know what happened, and I remember he was quite surprised that I was actually able to get through to him and said he would like to try calling himself. Never heard anything back from Bob about it after that though.

[Wheelsville1]

5 hours ago, Blackcab said:

Bob had the contact information for Bobby Newsome from the Vontastics which he passed along to me, with the warning that apparently he was quite old and out of it. I called them up, it was a bit of an awkward interaction they were living in some type of old folks home and I had to convince the staff member who answered to let me speak with him first. Once I got on the line with Bobby he didn't have much interest in talking with me about his music unfortunately, unless I was enough of a big shot, which I definitely was not and had not interest in convincing otherwise.

I let Bob know what happened, and I remember he was quite surprised that I was actually able to get through to him and said he would like to try calling himself. Never heard anything back from Bob about it after that though.

If my theory is just a theory and nothing else,it would be great if someone did find out the true identity of Earl Jackson.

[Robbk]

10 hours ago, Wheelsville1 said:

If my theory is just a theory and nothing else,it would be great if someone did find out the true identity of Earl Jackson.

Yes, I am curious, too.  It is strange that such a good singer only had so few recordings, and working with such a prestigious producer/arranger as Johnny Pate.  And I don't remember him appearing at venues in Chicago in the mid-to-late 1960s.

[Chalky]

I presume discogs is wrong with the link to a 30s bandleader and the 50s band. 
 

https://www.discogs.com/artist/386695-Earl-Jackson

https://www.discogs.com/artist/2765922-Earl-Jackson-Orchestra

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

I presume discogs is wrong with the link to a 30s bandleader and the 50s band. 
 

https://www.discogs.com/artist/386695-Earl-Jackson

https://www.discogs.com/artist/2765922-Earl-Jackson-Orchestra

Yes, I doubt that he was the Decca artist.  He'd have to have been born before 1905-1910.  He didn't become a band leader at 2 years old!  The Caravan record is quite a bit too early for him, as well.  The name rings a bell with me, other than the ABC 45.  But, I don't remember that name as a member of a Chicago Soul group.

[Blackpoolsoul]

9 hours ago, Robbk said:

Yes, I doubt that he was the Decca artist.  He'd have to have been born before 1905-1910.  He didn't become a band leader at 2 years old!  The Caravan record is quite a bit too early for him, as well.  The name rings a bell with me, other than the ABC 45.  But, I don't remember that name as a member of a Chicago Soul group.

Discogs is wrong and should be be corrected

I have often visited this release and 6 years ago there was a thread here, where it talks about Mr Pate "not remembering" anything about the release, this is often common where so much work has taken place and occasionally where "things cannot be talked about" 

ABC was scattered with releases with shall we say "complications" or "anomalies".

I thought a great place was the publishing Pamco and Yvonne, connected to  more of Mr Pate's releases, but there are more experienced people who may be able to help, as Discogs has so many different variations of the publishing and googling appears not reveal who owned it ?

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Blackpoolsoul

[Robbk]

On 01/05/2022 at 23:33, Blackpoolsoul said:

Discogs is wrong and should be be corrected

I have often visited this release and 6 years ago there was a thread here, where it talks about Mr Pate "not remembering" anything about the release, this is often common where so much work has taken place and occasionally where "things cannot be talked about" 

ABC was scattered with releases with shall we say "complications" or "anomalies".

I thought a great place was the publishing Pamco and Yvonne, connected to  more of Mr Pate's releases, but there are more experienced people who may be able to help, as Discogs has so many different variations of the publishing and googling appears not reveal who owned it ?

 

Pamco was short for Paramount Co.  and was one of the main 1960s in-house publishers of ABC Records,  Yvonne was likely Johnny Pate's publishing company.  I have only seen "Pamco/Yvonne" as the publishers listed on different pressings of that record.  To what variations of publisher listing names are you referring?  Were they only on WDJ pressings, which you think may have been earlier - BEFORE ABC-Paramount leased the record????  And they had only Yvonne, or a completely different publisher listed?

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

Pamco was short for Paramount Co.  and was one of the main 1960s in-house publishers of ABC Records,  Yvonne was likely Johnny Pate's publishing company.  I have only seen "Pamco/Yvonne" as the publishers listed on different pressings of that record.  To what variations of publisher listing names are you referring?  Were they only on WDJ pressings, which you think may have been earlier - BEFORE ABC-Paramount leased the record????  And they had only Yvonne, or a completely different publisher listed?

It was the publisher appearing on different releases that Mr Pate produced (2 of them below), I meant Rob and thanks for info it may help

[Robbk]

I believe that when Johnny Pate was hired to run ABC's production office in Chicago in 1966, his agreement with ABC was that his publishing company, Yvonne Music, would split the publishing rights to all the cuts he'd produce which were newly written by himself or his staff, or the artists who would sing them with ABC's PamCo Music, which was wholly owned by ABC, after their split with Paramount.  Of course, songs that were written previously but agreed upon by Pate and the artists (and their managers) would keep their own original publishing rights. I don't remember any ABC records produced by Pate that had PamCo sharing rights with the original writer's publishing company (without Yvonne's participation).

[Blackpoolsoul]

5 hours ago, Robbk said:

I believe that when Johnny Pate was hired to run ABC's production office in Chicago in 1966, his agreement with ABC was that his publishing company, Yvonne Music, would split the publishing rights to all the cuts he'd produce which were newly written by himself or his staff, or the artists who would sing them with ABC's PamCo Music, which was wholly owned by ABC, after their split with Paramount.  Of course, songs that were written previously but agreed upon by Pate and the artists (and their managers) would keep their own original publishing rights. I don't remember any ABC records produced by Pate that had PamCo sharing rights with the original writer's publishing company (without Yvonne's participation).

I think you are (as usual) spot on, I have found out that Yvonne was formed in Chicago in 1958

It is a little odd to me, that an increasing number if the artists (that I am now tracing) seem to be little known though and here are a few more.

 

[Ephraim]

That Billy Wade 45 is great IMO. More known among funk collectors, although I don’t have any info on the artist himself. He has another good one on ABC, “I Can’t Help It”.