What Makes A Record Auction-worthy?

[Ageing Face]

Each week I read the JM auction results & the most regular comment is that a certain track is a “Set Sale” record

looking at the 30 odd tracks up for auction at present I have half a dozen of them in my collection. Now I don’t have a huge collection (less than 1000 records) nor am I a regular DJ, I play the occasional soul night & at scooter rallies, so my question is 

If a bloke like me with an average collection can have 15% of JM’s auction tracks, what makes these records auction worthy & how does anyone decide 

[Dobber]

It has to be vg or less and normally worth 3 quid

[Kenb]

1 hour ago, Ageing Face said:

Each week I read the JM auction results & the most regular comment is that a certain track is a “Set Sale” record

looking at the 30 odd tracks up for auction at present I have half a dozen of them in my collection. Now I don’t have a huge collection (less than 1000 records) nor am I a regular DJ, I play the occasional soul night & at scooter rallies, so my question is 

If a bloke like me with an average collection can have 15% of JM’s auction tracks, what makes these records auction worthy & how does anyone decide 

you may be (politely) looking down the wrong end of the telescope.

do you have 15% of JM's auction tracks he lists every week/two weeks? Just a thought

[Ageing Face]

Just now, Kenb said:

you may be (politely) looking down the wrong end of the telescope.

do you have 15% of JM's auction tracks he lists every week/two weeks? Just a thought

Agreed, I have a few this week, others I have one, and others none.
I just can’t get to grips with what sets a record apart for auction as I wouldn’t consider any of my collection valuable enough or rare enough to warrant being auctioned, yet they keep appearing 

[Chalky]

people often say "set sale its" because for one they aren't that rare and they have a decent recent sales history and can be easily valued

[Ageing Face]

17 minutes ago, Chalky said:

people often say "set sale its" because for one they aren't that rare and they have a decent recent sales history and can be easily valued

Ah, that makes sense, as the price is known & therefore no real reason to put it out to gauge the market value. Working on that premise I probably only have one record that would be auction worthy as I’ve not seen one up for sale for years 

Am I right in assuming that the reason for putting these records with a known sales history up for auction is purely to push up the price?

[Tomangoes]

My idea of an auction....any auction....is that the following two scenarios apply:

1. The seller wants the money quickly, and is prepared to accept a lower price than the 'going rate'.

2. The item is so rare, or in demand, the seller cannot put a fixed price on it, goes to auction and expects a higher price than the 'going rate'

JM auctions of late seem to expect a higher sale price than the 'going rate' for everything.

He would, he's on a commission!

Ed

[Chalky]

12 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

My idea of an auction....any auction....is that the following two scenarios apply:

1. The seller wants the money quickly, and is prepared to accept a lower price than the 'going rate'.

2. The item is so rare, or in demand, the seller cannot put a fixed price on it, goes to auction and expects a higher price than the 'going rate'

JM auctions of late seem to expect a higher sale price than the 'going rate' for everything.

He would, he's on a commission!

Ed

I have to disagree with number 1, personally think they want or hope to get more than the accepted going rate.  If they want a quick sale would be prepared to accept less then why not simply set sale cheaper than recent prices?  

It is a gamble going to auction but one some seem prepared to take.  They probably have a reserve on them as well.

[Ageing Face]

20 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

My idea of an auction....any auction....is that the following two scenarios apply:

1. The seller wants the money quickly, and is prepared to accept a lower price than the 'going rate'.

2. The item is so rare, or in demand, the seller cannot put a fixed price on it, goes to auction and expects a higher price than the 'going rate'

JM auctions of late seem to expect a higher sale price than the 'going rate' for everything.

He would, he's on a commission!

Ed

So following that logic, it’s not the record that defines if a record is worthwhile auctioning, it’s whoever is selling it, or if you’re cynical if Mr M can make a few quid

[Tomangoes]

Well Mr M...is simply a master of the sales technique, obviously the buyers determine the final price.

Its what you'd expect.

Every record ever listed by him always has at least a 'must have, quite rare' description.

Again, I'm not knocking him. Its par for the course, just like any salesman.

However when a £100 normally valued record, and by valuation not that rare, fetches double that, indeed he did a good job.

Essentially it just means almost anything and everything can be auctioned it would appear, and the expectation is it will sell for more than a similar set sale.

Ed

[Ageing Face]

3 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

Well Mr M...is simply a master of the sales technique, obviously the buyers determine the final price.

Its what you'd expect.

Every record ever listed by him always has at least a 'must have, quite rare' description.

Again, I'm not knocking him. Its par for the course, just like any salesman.

However when a £100 normally valued record, and by valuation not that rare, fetches double that, indeed he did a good job.

Essentially it just means almost anything and everything can be auctioned it would appear, and the expectation is it will sell for more than a similar set sale.

Ed

So realistically there is nothing to make a record auction worthy, but if you want a bit more money for the records you’re selling, Auction them through JM

[Tomangoes]

On the face of it, yes, but you'd have to analyse every sold auction item against a similar set sale, to compare.

Maybe its just an illusion, maybe its correct.

Its very rare, on here at least, than anybody comments on how low a price a record sold for at the weekly JM auction, but quite a few have on ebay auctions.

If I had a del larks or Gwen owens etc I wanted to shift, I'd definately discuss it with John first!

Ed

[Midnight Drifter]

There's another thing: On top of trying to put a value to records that haven't emerged for a while, people put records with a recent sales history on auction if there is a good reason to think the winning bid will be (much) higher than the last one, i.e. in-demand tunes. 

[davidwapples]

People wanting to get more money than a record is worth or a record that is obscure or rare that there is no current sale prices for.

Eg I have bill space lady on a 45, this to me is a 20 to 30 quid record but people are paying upwards of 100 for it as its popular at the minute. 

If I was to sell it I'd put it on auction to get the most I could for it. 

 

Also a few years I found a copy of pic and bill what does it take on charay for 8 quid. No copies have been sold so I sent it to a dealer who auctioned it and I got 800 for it, I'd happily have taken the 400 I was offered privately but the dealer got more in exchange for their commission 

[Ageing Face]

23 minutes ago, davidwapples said:

People wanting to get more money than a record is worth or a record that is obscure or rare that there is no current sale prices for.

Eg I have bill space lady on a 45, this to me is a 20 to 30 quid record but people are paying upwards of 100 for it as its popular at the minute. 

If I was to sell it I'd put it on auction to get the most I could for it. 

 

Also a few years I found a copy of pic and bill what does it take on charay for 8 quid. No copies have been sold so I sent it to a dealer who auctioned it and I got 800 for it, I'd happily have taken the 400 I was offered privately but the dealer got more in exchange for their commission 

I suppose it’s the gamble you take that it may not sell for as much as you would like. Although recently from the comments I’ve read the auctions are surpassing expected values even when the records are available on Discogs, and based on your comments it has been this way for a while 

[Chalky]

3 hours ago, Midnight Drifter said:

There's another thing: On top of trying to put a value to records that haven't emerged for a while, people put records with a recent sales history on auction if there is a good reason to think the winning bid will be (much) higher than the last one, i.e. in-demand tunes. 

People do that with set sale though, week one, record sells for £100.  Week 2 seller puts it up for £150.    Week three another is £200.  It might have sold ten times for 100 but they still add another 50 quid and so on these days.  The whole market is now out to exploit regardless of how it is sold.

[Ageing Face]

8 minutes ago, Chalky said:

People do that with set sale though, week one, record sells for £100.  Week 2 seller puts it up for £150.    Week three another is £200.  It might have sold ten times for 100 but they still add another 50 quid and so on these days.  The whole market is now out to exploit regardless of how it is sold.

I suppose if you’re a dealer & that’s how you earn your living you’ll always try to get the best price possible. Personally I’m lucky that there’s a dealer that lives close by, that sells regularly on here. As I upgrade the tracks I have or if I get duplicates from a bundle purchase I take them to him, we both know that he’s got to make a profit & pay his tax so we don’t haggle- he gets stock & I don’t end up with multiple copies of the same track 

I don’t think I could be bothered with the hassle of auctioning records that in my mind are worth a couple of hundred quid tops

 

[Angus Westfields]

I think you have to be so careful when deciding if the one you hold is 'THE' one that attracts such a 'nice' price. Quite often there are so many versions and far too many illegal/unofficial pressings, some of which are collectible in their own right, but it can make it difficult to determine whether the one you hold is valuable or not. A good example would be The Younghearts A Little Togetherness. They come up regularly on EBay, but trying to determine which exact version it is, ain't that easy. And sometimes I prefer to buy from a trusted dealer, who I know knows the wheat from the chaff, than dabble in an auction. JM knows their stuff, so I'd be pretty confident anything purchased via their auction is bona fide. 

[Souldogbot]

Buy it now records on eBay or Discogs are generally on there for ages before they may sell. Most people seem to think they'll be on there for ever with no rush to buy then when they do sell the messages come 'did you sell that' or 'I really wanted that let know if the buyer backs out'.

At least on auction they sell sometimes at a price that pleases me and at other times I'm disappointed. They're often bought by dealers that are happy to sit on them for a while. The person that pays the highest finishing price doesn't really set the value bench mark as the record could just be currently in demand. Most big dealers will frequent the big nights with their sales boxes and keep an ear and eye on the dancefloor to asses reactions to a play that gets them up which then will see that record be in instant high demand. Its personal choice but in recent years genuine UK 60s demos have soared in value as they're safe bets to keep their value irrespective of whether or not a reissue has come out.

[Blackpoolsoul]

39 minutes ago, souldogbot said:

Buy it now records on eBay or Discogs are generally on there for ages before they may sell. Most people seem to think they'll be on there for ever with no rush to buy then when they do sell the messages come 'did you sell that' or 'I really wanted that let know if the buyer backs out'.

At least on auction they sell sometimes at a price that pleases me and at other times I'm disappointed. They're often bought by dealers that are happy to sit on them for a while. The person that pays the highest finishing price doesn't really set the value bench mark as the record could just be currently in demand. Most big dealers will frequent the big nights with their sales boxes and keep an ear and eye on the dancefloor to asses reactions to a play that gets them up which then will see that record be in instant high demand. Its personal choice but in recent years genuine UK 60s demos have soared in value as they're safe bets to keep their value irrespective of whether or not a reissue has come out.

Steve Plumb is hugely successful on Discogs and I don't know why people haven't got the nounce to ask the sellers if they will sell cheaper, after all what is the worse they can say....... erm No ? I believe John charges 20% for the pleasure (at least he did 8 years ago when I turned his bank manager down)

Edited February 14, 2022 by Blackpoolsoul

[Ageing Face]

1 minute ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Steve Plumb is hugely successful on Discogs and I don't know why people haven't got the nounce to ask the sellers if they will sell cheaper, after all what is the worse they can say....... erm No ?

I tried that recently on Discogs for a Ska track that had “make an offer” - I made an offer for, got no response & the next time I looked the “make an offer“ had gone ‍ 
maybe my idea of the right price & there idea was different 

[Steviehay]

putting it bluntly ....GREED

[Angus Westfields]

Undoubtedly there are receptive sellers and those who will not negotiate. Personally I buy nothing unless I can buy for the price I want to pay, or ideally less, whether that means a negotiation or not. It is right to walk away if the price is NOT right for you. Sad, but right. Patience is essential and remembering anything is only worth whatever someone is prepared to pay for it.

[Davey S]

Demand.

DaveS

[Markw]

2 hours ago, Ageing Face said:

I tried that recently on Discogs for a Ska track that had “make an offer” - I made an offer for, got no response & the next time I looked the “make an offer“ had gone ‍ 
maybe my idea of the right price & there idea was different 

On Discogs, you only get one chance to make an offer. That's probably why it no longer gave you the option to make an offer, not necessarily because the seller removed the option altogether. It's more likely because you used up your one and only chance.

[Ageing Face]

Just now, Markw said:

On Discogs, you only get one chance to make an offer. That's probably why it no longer gave you the option to make an offer, not necessarily because the seller removed the option altogether. It's more likely because you used up your one and only chance.

Ah, that makes sense 

[Blackpoolsoul]

14 minutes ago, Markw said:

On Discogs, you only get one chance to make an offer. That's probably why it no longer gave you the option to make an offer, not necessarily because the seller removed the option altogether. It's more likely because you used up your one and only chance.

Indeed and a big criticism, but when I wanted something I just pm'd the seller to check "first"

[Mal C]

dont auction set sale items simple... as for the rest the only one that I used to hate was a closed auction, but then sometimes if you are buying from outside the collectrs scene, those auctions can be a tad different...