Guest Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) George Michael next week.... Been done,must have missed him .......gonna`be a belter. Edited February 10, 2007 by ken Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Matt Male Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) Interesting poll on the BBC site on the right hand side 'Who do you think has been most influential on UK soul?' Thank God Dusty Springfield is beating SoulIISoul... Shall we all vote for Sade? Edited February 10, 2007 by Matt Male Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest mrs norman maine Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I'll never understand Imagination. Me neither, but I loved the bit with Leeeeeee John, the prancing fool. That clip of him pulling the girl out of the audience...... Still, it was good of the programme makers to acknowledge the important influence of Graham 'the galloping gourmet' Kerr on British Soul. I only saw 10 minutes of each programme, but the difference in quality between the two programmes was instantly apparent. Were they made by the same people? (genuine question) Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 As early as 1977 the late Dave Godin was predicting how it was very likely that even the term "Soul" would be taken from us, through popular misuse. When exactly did we take ownership of the term "SOUL"? Like it or not, NORTHERN SOUL however important it is to us, is a mere footnote in musical history. I.M.O of course! Derek Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Bernadette Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I still think that more than a few people on here need to remember that this is not advertised as, nor meant to be, a history of Northern Soul, but rather a history of the evolution of the indigenous version of american black music. (I'm not having a pop at you here, by the way). TONE But even so Tony - it totally misrepresented the British Soul Scene at the time surely? I didn't really expect it to be an indepth look into Northern (which would have been nice!) but I did expect at the very least the programme would cover the British Jazz-Funk scene! Whether you liked it or not (and I'm sure more than a few bods of this site don't), how they could miss out bands such as Hi Tension, Light Of The World etc. who were far more representative of British Soul at the time than the bloody Specials & Dexys. :angry: When I was a slip of a girl (and a size 8 - those were the days!), as well as Northern allniters, I used to go to Jazz-Funk-Soul ones too around and about the North East - or maybe I just dreamt it and was really jumping about to 'Come On Eileen' at the time My husband, who is a non-soulie enjoyed the programme far more than me - which says it all! Agree with the Jazzy B comments too - what a knob (and I liked Soul II Soul) Gave as much time and understanding to Northern as Trevor Nelson did on his Soul Nation programme I feel much better now after venting my spleen - not directed specifically at you Tony btw Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Bogue Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 As the piece on Northren Soul comes to an end the segment runs.... Voiceover ' Northern Soul was black music driving a white scene, their new black neighbours were not welcome' Jazzie B 'There ain't a black person there. I remember trying to go up north and be involved in these kinds of parties but you just really wasn't welcome........ as I think about it now it's a good thing I didn't get into them clubs' The voiceover then goes onto say that Northern Soul reflected the fragmentations and divisions in society over a clip of an Enoch Powell speech. It was a cheap way of changing the subject and introducing the subject of racism to show what black UK based musicians were up against and I deeply resent it's implications. That's exactly what i thought 'Ranger', made me really angry to see it linked like that ! & that 'Jizzy' B pillock should try thinking a bit before coming out with comments like that ! If that had been said the other way round the bloody nation would probably all be crying racism ! Yes the Northern scene probably was frequented by predominatley white people, but that was merely because the black kids were not into it, as has been pointed out. Most black people in this country originated from the West Indies not America & so had no affinity with that type of music, Reggae was thier scene, as again, has been pointed out. But i'm sorry, i just don't believe that black people were made unwelcome ! that was just spouting crap for the sake of it. On to the episode as a whole, never expected that it was to be about Nsoul but i really think it deserved better than it got last night ! Seeing the Ian Levine thread on here i was starting to feel sorry for him, but after last nights little cameo, with the tiresome 'Northern bin men becoming superstars on a Saturday night' routine i think he may get what he deserves ! (imho) He just can't get over the fact that the Casino, whatever you may think of it's music policy, was so much bigger than his Mecca & he wasn't a leading part of it ! Back to the program, There were some interesting bits but it just seemed to go gradualy downhill, till the point where Imagination came on & my Television switch went off !!! One other point about the program, whoever the Editor/Producer was on the series he want's sacking ! You could probably forgive the bits last week when the Twisted Wheel became Wigan record room e.t.c due to lack of remaining footage. But how the hell did he work up through 'Ska' to 'Two Tone' to 'Dexy's Midnite Runners' & end up at 'The Real Thing' ? That was about 6 years before ! & possibly was more of an offshoot of the Rare soul & disco scene. Don't think i will bother with next weeks episode !! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Karen Heath Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Me neither, but I loved the bit with Leeeeeee John, the prancing fool. That clip of him pulling the girl out of the audience...... Still, it was good of the programme makers to acknowledge the important influence of Graham 'the galloping gourmet' Kerr on British Soul. I only saw 10 minutes of each programme, but the difference in quality between the two programmes was instantly apparent. Were they made by the same people? (genuine question) Did you like Leeeeeeeeeee's trousers? In sequins. One leg was long and the other was a figure hugging short! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Winnie :-) Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Interesting poll on the BBC site on the right hand side 'Who do you think has been most influential on UK soul?' Thank God Dusty Springfield is beating SoulIISoul... Shall we all vote for Sade? ========== I've always found the MarkyD to be more of a thrash metal fan Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest realsoulfan Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Sadly i missed the 1st episode so i can't comment on it. As for last nights episode IMO it was poorly researched & was obviously aimed at a mainstream audience with the inclusion of the likes of Bowie, Hucknell, Rolands, Boy George etc. Think that a previous comment by Tony Rounce hit the nail on the head, the programme was called Soul Britannia & not Northern Soul Britannia. As for Jazzy B's comments, were they directed at the Northern Soul scene or at Northern England in general? Also willing to bet that Jazzy gave a lengthy interview & the BBC chose to use his comments as they were controversial. Just had a quick look on the Link given by Bob Jones & noticed that there is a link to this site so the BBC obviously know that we exist so if they plan anything in the future perhaps they might ask us 1st. Sure there are enough people on this site with media influences who could put them right in a constructive way regarding the current Northern & Modern Soul scene for any future programs. Over to you Pete, Tony, Dr Bob etc. I aggree with you totally No one ever is going to get a program on Northern Soul correct, either content is not correct or the program not long enough. How do people expect that someone who dosen't have the same passion for this Genre of music be able to put it across with the same kind of commitment and knowledge as these fans would like. So your better off getting the right people together and make your own program. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Platters 81 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 this episode was very disappointing compared to the first........when Jazz Brittania/Folk Brittania aired....the interviewees were relevant.....major players in the genre.....whether performers/promoters etc.....this was cobbled together.....Stafford footage mixed with Wigan to make it seem the same...et al..(nice to see Duncan P dancing at TOTW tho ).......i can't see that Bowie has any relevance whatsoever......they could have interviewed Petes Waterman and Stringfellow for a view......no Billy Ocean /Heatwave.etc....a bit on Chris Hill would have been good......anything on weekenders ....i believe the "1000 people more annoying than Mick Hucknall" has been closed by the irony ignoring idiot himself.... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 But even so Tony - it totally misrepresented the British Soul Scene at the time surely? I didn't really expect it to be an indepth look into Northern (which would have been nice!) but I did expect at the very least the programme would cover the British Jazz-Funk scene! Whether you liked it or not (and I'm sure more than a few bods of this site don't), how they could miss out bands such as Hi Tension, Light Of The World etc. who were far more representative of British Soul at the time than the bloody Specials & Dexys. :angry: When I was a slip of a girl (and a size 8 - those were the days!), as well as Northern allniters, I used to go to Jazz-Funk-Soul ones too around and about the North East - or maybe I just dreamt it and was really jumping about to 'Come On Eileen' at the time My husband, who is a non-soulie enjoyed the programme far more than me - which says it all! Agree with the Jazzy B comments too - what a knob (and I liked Soul II Soul) Gave as much time and understanding to Northern as Trevor Nelson did on his Soul Nation programme I feel much better now after venting my spleen - not directed specifically at you Tony btw Still haven't seen the programme and the desire to is going further downhill now. But my understanding is that 'Soul Britannia' is about British Soul acts reather than the Soul scene in Britain ? If so, then sorry, the Northern Soul scene becomes largely irrelevant. Hardcore Northern Soul fans have always been very, very dismissive in general of UK "Soul" records...how many would have wanted it to be about Jason Knight, Margo and The Marvettes, Lorraine Silver (actually I would !) ect...so apart from Jimmy James and Geno Washington who would they have on to represent Black 60's UK (based) Soul acts? Soul Joe Clements? Remember the UK's Black population was largely West Indian based and was therefore coming from a different place musically. So it sounds like the got programme one about right then. I agree entirely with Bernadette... bands like Hi Tension, The Olympic Runners, Light Of The World, Level 42, Incognito ect are highly relevant' as are the earlier 70's Jazz/Funk bands that came before them like the AWB (Average White Band!) and influenced them. And to that end they are more important in terms of this programme than most I think...but then you have to start defining what 'Soul" is. Is it Soul, is it dance, is it funk, is it disco? Carl Douglas? If they'd shown 'Kung Fu Fighting' this forum would have exploded.. but it was a huge UK record by a Black British act though. When David Bowie recorded 'Fame' at Sigma, was it more a 'Soul' record than James Browns 'Hot' ? Are records like The Pioneers "My Good Friend James" or "Broken Man" or The Equals 'Baby Come Back' Soul records? Are they "Soul" just because they are Black or play Black based music ? Were The Armada Orchestra a 'Soul' act then? What about the other UK recordings on Contempo? The fact is before those bands became big in the 70's and 80's, UK Soul was never really taken seriously by the purists. So like it or not, (and I don't) Georgie Fame, Mick Hucknall and his like suddenly become relevant. Jump forward and you have Imagination...and like it or not, they were one of the bigger more successful UK 'Soul' acts. Soul II Soul, like them or not were huge and hugely influential kicking off that whole Bristol thing to some extent. Loose Ends? And there you have it again..is it "Soul" ? Is Lisa Stansfield more or less relevant than Heather Small ? Pauline Henry? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Bogue Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) Still haven't seen the programme and the desire to is going further downhill now. But my understanding is that 'Soul Britannia' is about British Soul acts reather than the Soul scene in Britain ? If that's the case Simon, then it has failed even more miserably, most of each episode of the program so far, seems to me, to have been spent looking at Social issues or influences. Edited February 10, 2007 by Bogue Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) St I agree entirely with Bernadette... bands like Hi Tension, The Olympic Runners, Light Of The World, Level 42, Incognito ect are highly relevant' as are the earlier 70's Jazz/Funk bands that came before them like the AWB (Average White Band!) and influenced them. And to that end they are more important in terms of this programme than most I think... I agree with both you and Bernadette on the importance of those UK bands. The whole of what followed Cymande on this show should have been about them and the rest of the UK J-F scene (the true 'soul Britannia' IMO, rather than Hucknall and co - although I do think that most people would - as I do - also class LOTW, Incognito and especially Level 42 as 80s acts. So maybe next week's show will put them in the spotlight? Hope so, but the way things are going we'll get Spandau Bellet and Haircut 100 instead... (BTW I'd have to say that the best gig I've ever been to - EVER - was Light Of The World at the Brighton Top Rank in 1982 or 1983. That from a list which also includes the Isley Brothers, Bob Dylan, the O'Jays, Bruce Springsteen, Curtis Mayfield, John Mellencamp, Jerry Butler, Jimi Hendrix, the Who, Otis Redding, the Jam etc. etc. etc.) Loose Ends? I Level? Yes please! TONE PS - as someone else said earlier, a bit on Chris Hill would indeed have been great. If Norman Jay and Trevor Nelson merit MBEs (and truthfully I still haven't worked out exactly why they got 'em, instead of Chris, Bob Jones and Richard Searling - - well I've got a bloody good idea why, actually, but I'll keep it to myself for fear or being put on Jazzie B's racist list ), this man deserves a knighthood for his services to black music and especially for his services to UK black music. Edited February 10, 2007 by TONY ROUNCE Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Scallybob Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 The point is though, if the series is supposed to be about UK soul acts and their influences, they should stick to that. It all seems cobbled together to me. They seem to think they have to mention the Northern scene. Well, if it didn't influence any UK soul acts why bother? Hucknall's a blert, his music is background hum. Not soul. Paul Weller was clearly influenced (Start is Lee Roye-Tears without the royalties) but he's not a soul act. Bowie, Dexy's Midnight Runners and the like are as close to soul acts as Orville. So as they know nothing about the Northern scene and are too bone idle to find out they revert to patronising rubbish. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Bernadette Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I agree with both you and Bernadette on the importance of those UK bands. The whole of what followed Cymande on this show should have been about them and the rest of the UK J-F scene (the true 'soul Britannia' IMO, rather than Hucknall and co - although I do think that most people would - as I do - also class LOTW, Incognito and especially Level 42 as 80s acts. So maybe next week's show will put them in the spotlight? Hope so, but the way things are going we'll get Spandau Bellet and Haircut 100 instead... (BTW I'd have to say that the best gig I've ever been to - EVER - was Light Of The World at the Brighton Top Rank in 1982 or 1983. That from a list which also includes the Isley Brothers, Bob Dylan, the O'Jays, Bruce Springsteen, Curtis Mayfield, John Mellencamp, Jerry Butler, Jimi Hendrix, the Who, Otis Redding, the Jam etc. etc. etc.) Loose Ends? I Level? Yes please! TONE Yep Tony I was pleased to see Cymande and thought here we go BUT where did it go??? It seemed to take a detour before getting to Loose Ends. SHODDY!!! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
macca Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I always thought 'start' was a rip off of 'taxman'. let me tell you how it will be... M Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest kent soul club Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I also enjoyed the programme, as I wasn't expecting it to be about Northern Soul. Granted, Jazzy B's comments would probably have pissed me off if I had been there at the time and knew his comments to be wrong. At the same time I have always been surprised at how few black people I see on the scene. Sure there are a few, but I would expect more, as it is 100% black music we're into. The part where Rhoda Dakar from The Bodysnatchers spoke about racists that were seen on NF marches, and then seen at 2-tone concerts enjoying the music, touches on something that has always puzzled me. How can a person be racist and at the same time be a fan of black music? I believe the programme is primarily about home grown soul music, and its influence on British artists, and as such isn't going to focus on the Northern Soul scene much, but I have posted on the programme's site, wondering if our current scene will get a mention in later episodes, and asking if we will get any credit for keeping rare soul music alive for the last 30 years. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
macca Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Dissapointed in the second one----it seemed to be more about race issues and pop rather than soul music. As for Jazzie B-s comments--Where exactly did he go---in the mid 70s at least 40% of the regular nighter goers from my area were coloured.Admittedley the northern scene was predominantly white but maybe thats a reflection of the white to coloured ratio of the country at that time. Anyway the second one was S***E nuff said coloured. haven't heard that term since mlkjnr marched on selma. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
John May Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 1st one was O.K, but last night lost it compltetly, quickly mentioned the Northern scene, then onto 80's blatent POP music. Even had Boy George rambling on about soul..........Total B****KS Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest espo Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Have to say coloured rather than black seeing as how some of the lads were asian,one or two arabic --the rest west indian-----so what would you say? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Have to say something. I think Boy George has a very soulful voice. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ady Croasdell Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Really really poor. Far too much reggae and Elms. At the show's launch they only screened the first episode which i enjoyed but this was all that's bad about the media and their shoddy research. They should have run it by someone who knows what the scene was like before screening and had a collosal edit. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Bogue Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Have to say something. I think Boy George has a very soulful voice. Do you really want to hurt us ? He didn't have a bad voice i suppose Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest kent soul club Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Have to say coloured rather than black seeing as how some of the lads were asian,one or two arabic --the rest west indian-----so what would you say? Think I would say ''Black and asian''.Not to be P.C.-only because I know black friends of mine find the term ''coloured''patronising.After all we're all coloured,we're just different colours! But to be honest,I've never met a person whose skin colour is actually black-it's a strange one that. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ady Croasdell Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Well, well, and well. It seems after a fairly inviting episode 1, the beeb in their unwise wisdom decided to degrade Soul in the UK by making meaningless association with 'faces' of UK popular music. Why , oh why don't these producers do their research properly. Never has the UK Soul scene been so misrepresented than in Episode 2. Made by people who literally haven't got a clue! Complete ignorance not to ask the right questions to the right people. Btw you can leave comments on the Soul Brittania/BBC web site about this- I suggest we get rid of all our pent up anger on there by going to :- https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/soulbritannia/ Bottom right hand corner- click on comments- they need their arses kicked that's for sure. Regards Dr Bob Jones 'I was there' Dead right Bob, i just posted a brief one, it's probably not worth spending too much time on it, they'll be on to their next project by now. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Richard Bergman Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Dead right Bob, i just posted a brief one, it's probably not worth spending too much time on it, they'll be on to their next project by now. or doing drinks in some trendy West London wine bar...... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Really really poor. Far too much reggae and Elms. Yep. American Idol (on same time ITV2) more entertaining. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mike Lofthouse Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Have to say coloured rather than black seeing as how some of the lads were asian,one or two arabic --the rest west indian-----so what would you say? Frannie, Yusef, Bishop, Eddie et al very 'colourful' bus trips those were Steve Mike Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Scallybob Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) Dr. Bob, isn't that the BBC all over when it comes to black music? They cream themselves over Amy Whitehouse or whoever as the "Next Aretha" but ignore the real contenders. Did Mary J Blige ever get any airtime? In the seventies when, for me, there was a real opportunity to push black music forward, Radio 1 spent their time with idiots like Bates and Read gushing about being at the Bee Gee's houses or some other shite. Paedophiles like Gadd and King were heavily promoted. A&R men must have greased a lot of palms (or other parts of anatomies) to get Sweet, Bay City Rollers, Slade, Abba and all that crap on the air. I am eternally grateful it was so piss poor because it never distracted me from Al Green, Bobby Womack, the best underground music scene ever and sanity. The BBC was run by white middle-class beauts who all liked prog rock or anything with a nice Anglo-Saxon grid on the cover. Nothing's changed. And they still think Northerners are thick. But they've never heard Billy Woods. Edited February 10, 2007 by ScallyBob Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 A&R men must have greased a lot of palms (or other parts of anatomies) to get Sweet, Bay City Rollers, Slade, Abba and all that crap on the air. It's called pop music, don't know if you ever heard of it, was very big in the 60's and 70's, they don't have to grease palms, it's what half the population was buying. And to call Slade crap is f*cking herecy. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) I think that was the media all over. Remember Channel Four attempting to do a UK 'Soul Train'? Brave, but failed miserably. Years ago the people who wrote the books and magazines and did the TV research were Rock fans and so were thier mates ..therefore that what got written about or shown. They certainly didn't take 'dance' music of any kind seriously. But I think it it went deeper. Little Richard was always seen as a bit of a novelty for suspicious reasons, whereas Chuck Berry was taken more seriously 'cos he played a guitar. So they could identify with him. The same applies to Hendricks. Even when Curtis Mayfield and Bill Withers were on 'Old Grey Whistle Test' it was only because they were deemed to be serious and not throwaway because they wrote meaningful lyrics..and guess what...they played guitars ! Edited February 10, 2007 by Simon White Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Scallybob Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) Pete, I know what you are saying but the A&R men aided and abetted by the alleged DJ's at the BBC decided who made it and who didn't. Some bloke form Crawley with a big A&R budget-no problem, on air. David Ruffin-will I get an invite to his house? Not playing that. Half the population was buying it because they never heard anything else and the BBC made sure it all stayed nice and safe. Jazzy B never mentioned that, did he? It's about opinions if you have no financial interest, and my opinion is that Slade were abysmal. No better than Sweet, Bay City Rollers or Status Quo. Pub singers who got lucky. Pop music is fairer now because they include downloads but the BBC refused to include 12" singles for a long time. Can't have Evelyn King in there or Tavares can we? Human League? No problem sir. Edited February 10, 2007 by ScallyBob Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I know what you are saying but the A&R men aided and abetted by the alleged DJ's at the BBC decided who made it and who didn't. Some bloke form Crawley with a big A&R budget-no problem, on air. David Ruffin-will I get an invite to his house? Not playing that. It's about opinions if you have no financial interest, and my opinion is that Slade were abysmal. No better than Sweet, Bay City Rollers or Status Quo. Pub singers who got lucky. Pop music is fairer now because they include downloads but the BBC refused to include 12" singles for a long time. Can't have Evelyn King in there or Tavares can we? Human League? No problem sir. Yes but Human League appeal to the kind of people who listen to daytime radio,and besides, they were better than Tavares! And what are you talking about - Jonathan Kings version of IOTAM beat Tavares to the shops but their subsequent singles had massive airplay. The more commercial the record, the more airplay it's going to get. And to compare Status Quo and Slade to the Bay City Rollers is the same as comparing Leee John to Bobby Womack. There was tons of soul music in the charts in the 70's, massive massive amounts. What on earth are you complaining about. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Bogue Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) Yeh, leave Noddy & co out of the argument ! Bloody brilliant Slade were. I made my debut on stage playing Jim Lea in a mime band at Primary school My brother was at Reading Festival when they were laughed & bottled on to the stage, by the time they left all the hardened rockers were putty in thier hands & left with opened mouths !! & besides that, they have given us some great comedy in Vic & Bob & the Grimleys so leave em alone their following & status was deserved !! Edited February 10, 2007 by Bogue Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
macca Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) when I used to read blues & soul in the 70's, I used to virtually ignore the new releases & head straight for frank elson's column. how narrow minded can you get? it was only in later years that I discovered the broad church that is black american music. I acquired some parliament/funkadelic not long ago, stuff that I wouldn't have listened to in the 70's for 'political reasons', not to mention bobby womack, al green, jerry butler, o'jays etc; TSOP was never out of the music press, the stylistics, a group I always abhorred, were lapped up by pop fans of all ages. I think it's untrue to say that soul music never got a look in. the mkIII cortina furry dice brigade were mostly commercial soul fans. we used to take the piss out of them for it at the sunday night disco. brick house & all that shite... Edited February 10, 2007 by macca Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Dr Bob Jones Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I think that was the media all over. Remember Channel Four attempting to do a UK 'Soul Train'? Brave, but failed miserably. Years ago the people who wrote the books and magazines and did the TV research were Rock fans and so were thier mates ..therefore that what got written about or shown. They certainly didn't take 'dance' music of any kind seriously. But I think it it went deeper. Little Richard was always seen as a bit of a novelty for suspicious reasons, whereas Chuck Berry was taken more seriously 'cos he played a guitar. So they could identify with him. The same applies to Hendricks. Even when Curtis Mayfield and Bill Withers were on 'Old Grey Whistle Test' it was only because they were deemed to be serious and not throwaway because they wrote meaningful lyrics..and guess what...they played guitars ! Yes Simon Good that you should mention Soul Train, this was originally offered to BBC TV back in the day and it was turned down along the lines of 'we don't see any popularity in the UK for this type of music show'.This was during the mid 70's when Black American music was being exposed worldwide due to the crossover & popularity of Disco. Another case of the ignorance of the suites in charge of light entertainment not knowing what the public want. Sad to think nothing has changed in over 30 odd years!! Regards Dr Bob Jones Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest TONY ROUNCE Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Yes but Human League appeal to the kind of people who listen to daytime radio,and besides, they were better than Tavares! And what are you talking about - Jonathan Kings version of IOTAM beat Tavares to the shops but their subsequent singles had massive airplay. The more commercial the record, the more airplay it's going to get. And to compare Status Quo and Slade to the Bay City Rollers is the same as comparing Leee John to Bobby Womack. There was tons of soul music in the charts in the 70's, massive massive amounts. What on earth are you complaining about. Absolutely right - the amount of good records by soul artists in the charts during the 70s must run into thousands. People like Tavares and Evelyn Champagne King actually had more pop hits here than they did in their homeland. The Chi Lites, The Three Degrees, George McCrae, Rose Royce, the Stylistics and Barry White, too. And, in the early 80s, Shalamar, Odyssey - well, need I go on? If there was ever a time when the BBC really got behind American Black music, it was the 1970s. And when Punk came along and received its unofficial blanket ban from 'Auntie', they played even more than before. Apparently, though, you didn't hear any of it. Poor you... TONY PS and BTW - the BBC - who, by the way, have never compiled the charts at any time since we've had them - have never 'refused to allow' any configuration of repertoire into the chart. There's a not unreasonble rule that only a certain amount of formats can be eligible as recorded sales, and I'm all for that. If it wasn't in place, bands like Iron Maiden, whose fan base is still big enough to get one format to number one for a week, would put out the same record in 52 different formats, one week apart, and have the same single topping the charts for a year. There's also a rule that anything which runs over 20 minutes has to be classed as an LP, and I'm all for that, too, for much the same reason. Besides which, anything that keeps a dance CD single down to one radio mix and one remix has got to be the right thing. Now, if only the chart compilers would invoke a rule that anything not on 7 inch vinyl was ineligible for inclusion in the chart we could all go home happy. Oh yeah, and while I think of it, Slade made the best string of out and out pop singles ever. Not one turkey among 'em. Not even the Beatles can claim that. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Platters 81 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Iron Maiden........i love "Aces High".......off the live album.......(you can't fribb to Larry Trider) Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Scarborosoul Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) AND as we all know Slade were a skinhead band with their roots in ska etc!!! before they went "Glam" what was it Noddy said " Iwant evryone to get up off their seat and gimme some old moon stomping" Edited February 10, 2007 by Scarborosoul Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 AND as we all know Slade were a skinhead band with their roots in ska etc!!! before they went "Glam" what was it Noddy said " Iwant evryone to get up off their seat and gimme some old moon stomping" Little known fact is when they werestill the N-Betweens, they had a residency in the Bahamas where they played back up for a US female soul group called The Twans! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) It doesn't help when Levine perpetuates the myth that everyone on the scene worked in dead-end jobs in "dismal" northern towns. Have to say something here.....surely the Northern Scene was proud of it's 'working class' thing and that the majority of the punters were 'working class' ?? Certainly enough people have had a go at Levine because he WASN"T working class, which by implication suggests maybe they themselves consider they were? Here's a quote from an un - named soul fan in the (in) famous Tony Cummings 'Black Music' article written when..1974? " A lot of the kids who used to go to soul disco's in London...were middle class...But in the North it was, and still is very much a working-class scene" P.S. we have 'working class people in the South too. They're called 'cock er nees' and they eat jellied eels and apples and pears most of the time. We have Italian working class people too. They drink 'cap er cheen oh's' Edited February 10, 2007 by Simon White Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Bogue Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 AND as we all know Slade were a skinhead band with their roots in ska etc!!! before they went "Glam" & the High Priest of N Soul, Richard Searling was a secret Slade fan i suspect if you look at the early scene pictures of him. Definatley went to the barbers & said ' I want to look like Jim Lea out of Slade i reckon, or Shane Titley How strange too, on the same page there is a picture of a black man being made unwelcome at Wigan, one for Mr Jazzy B methinks . Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I aggree with you totally No one ever is going to get a program on Northern Soul correct, either content is not correct or the program not long enough. How do people expect that someone who dosen't have the same passion for this Genre of music be able to put it across with the same kind of commitment and knowledge as these fans would like. So your better off getting the right people together and make your own program. A truer word(s) were never spoken.... make your own programme.... 'The Strange World Of Northern Soul' was made by someone who went to the opening night of Wigan (and a lot more), DJ'd at all the major Northern clubs from early on, probably discovered more records than anyone else, is there in the top three people with more influence on the Northern scene than anyone and can claim to know a bit ( ) about it all. SWONS was an attempt to make something featuring people who were there at at the time, to give the Northern scene a voice, it's own voice, and all people have done since is bitch about it ! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I think history is being re-written here. Was more than 10% of the Northern crowd Black? Given that it considered itself a Soul scene, if even half of the punters were Black, thats not a very good percentage is it ? The Black kids weren't there in any number because they were either listening to Reggae or Funk ! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Bogue Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) A truer word(s) were never spoken.... make your own programme.... 'The Strange World Of Northern Soul' was made by someone who went to the opening night of Wigan (and a lot more), DJ'd at all the major Northern clubs from early on, probably discovered more records than anyone else, is there in the top three people with more influence on the Northern scene than anyone and can claim to know a bit ( ) about it all. SWONS was an attempt to make something featuring people who were there at at the time, to give the Northern scene a voice, it's own voice, and all people have done since is bitch about it ! Which makes it all the more tragic that it was totaly f***** up then Simon ! Lets face it, it ended up being nothing more than a showcase & attempt at rescue for the Motor City project (imho) Edited February 10, 2007 by Bogue Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Platters 81 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 there was a very small proportion of Black punters at commercial Soul do's in Stoke in the 70ts...(and more or less no Asians)...i DJed (not very well ) at the Place 73-74 ...Placemate 75-76.....Bowie/Roxy were very popular..also the 70ts pop stuff....Soul wise...Northern Soul was banned by the management....but i got a few in......Carstairs.....Mr Floods Party etc....the commercial Soul was Kool +Gang/Ohio players/Barry White/War/Chairmen/Chilites and the Motown artists ........i had a great time..... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Sorry Bouge, but how do you work that out ? It has footage from the Motorcity/ Detroit reunion that was filmed before SWONS was even thought of and would NEVER have been seen otherwise. So are you talking about the original video version or the later DVD version where the Motorcity related footage is on DVD four ( of six), while the first three CD's are largely of people who were actually on the Northern scene, while disc five icontains footage from the 'Togetherness' weekender or disc six which is the making of the whole thing which explains why there were so many problems ??? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Platters 81 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 the Newcastle under Lyme branch was called "Sammi Bells" by 75 and then Maxims....... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest realsoulfan Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 SWONS was an attempt to make something featuring people who were there at at the time, to give the Northern scene a voice, it's own voice, and all people have done since is bitch about it ! [/quote It's definately a no win situation any person making a program on Northern soul as like you said earlier some people will allways look for faults rather than appreciating it for what it is, It may not be what some people like but on the greater scale of things does it really matter as long as you appreciate what you like and know why you like it Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest kent soul club Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 How to avoid doing things wrong... Don't do anything. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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