Soul Britannia

[Guest]

Hello

Just wanted to add a couple of points on this. Last summer at the V&A Ady Croasdell and a couple of others did a talk on the history of northern soul, with some soundclips, which worked really well both for those in the know and those new to it. Something like this for TV would be a much better representation of the scene - can't be that difficult, surely?

As for Jazzie B's comments, well, perhaps that was his experience at the time, whether we agree with it or not. But if he did say the scene was racist outright, that's a serious accusation and there should have been another view to counter that for the sake of balance.

I've also read similar comments by The Real Thing's Eddy Amoo, and it's pretty hard to argue with his view that northern soul is a white scene. If you believe otherwise,well, let's see your lists of top ten black northern soul DJs. (I tried it and came up with six names, five of which are from the mod scene, including one Sri Lankan!).

[Guest Goldwax]

Hello

Just wanted to add a couple of points on this. Last summer at the V&A Ady Croasdell and a couple of others did a talk on the history of northern soul, with some soundclips, which worked really well both for those in the know and those new to it. Something like this for TV would be a much better representation of the scene - can't be that difficult, surely?

As for Jazzie B's comments, well, perhaps that was his experience at the time, whether we agree with it or not. But if he did say the scene was racist outright, that's a serious accusation and there should have been another view to counter that for the sake of balance.

I've also read similar comments by The Real Thing's Eddy Amoo, and it's pretty hard to argue with his view that northern soul is a white scene. If you believe otherwise,well, let's see your lists of top ten black northern soul DJs. (I tried it and came up with six names, five of which are from the mod scene, including one Sri Lankan!).

Fair comments, but I'm not sure if the colour of the DJ is a reflection of the attitutes of the punters. I wasn't around in the 70's (more of a mid 80's mod type in London - I take it the Sri Lankan you refered to was Tony Shockman (sp?) . but I have never heard any racist comments at a Soul / Funk / Mod night oop north or darn sarf although it has always been white dominated.

[Ady Croasdell]

Off the top of my head Warren Boogaloo, Leon from Gloucester, Tim Ashibende, Ian Jackson are the most recent and the first DJ I really remember on the scene was Dalbert from Wellingborough and there was Big Ray up in Newcastle. I'm sure there are quite a few more but in the 70s there just weren't that many black kids about up our way. Harborough for instance had one black family. Most black kids were still into the music of their parents countries reggae etc and when they did get into soul they went for the new releases as the old style didn't have any particular significance for them and reggae approximated funk more than 'on the fours' Motown.

Possibly some of the promoters at the time could have done more to encourage the ones that were around but i doubt if there was too much discrimination, though I'm not ruling it out as I wouldn't have come across it.

[Guest]

Fair comments, but I'm not sure if the colour of the DJ is a reflection of the attitutes of the punters. I wasn't around in the 70's (more of a mid 80's mod type in London - I take it the Sri Lankan you refered to was Tony Shockman (sp?)

Yes, are you going to his 40th birthday party?

https://www.modculture.info/2007/02/tony_schokmans_.html

[Guest Goldwax]

Yes, are you going to his 40th birthday party?

https://www.modculture.info/2007/02/tony_schokmans_.html

Might pop down. Think last time I saw him was at the Dome.

Craig

[Chalky]

I missed the second one, is it repeated?

[Chalky]

I missed the second one, is it repeated?

ignore that, just found it's on tonight 20 past midnight

[Guest]

:angry: I watched Soul Britannia with jaw-dropping disbelief! How can a scene that celebrates and appreciates black American rare soul be racist??

LeighW

There's been a few people on this thread say something similar, I think your being a little naive really, in my time in this scene, I have met with one or two people who have racist tendencies, on one occassion I chucked a girl out of my house, I overheard her say "don't they look like monkeys" whilst looking at a pic of Martha and the Vandellas, that was the most extreme I've come across, other times I've heard a casual remark or jokey aside directed at a black guy, that makes me wonder

[Corbett80]

There will always be the minority of idiots who will show their true colours in this way, but the point is they are the minority. That dosen't mean to say that everyone has to be tarred with the same brush. The terrible thing about the programme was as already mentioned, the lack of counter argument to balance the insinuation that all white soulies must be inherently racist, if indeed that was what he intended. They've only put it in the programme because they had a distinct lack of any worthwhile material and they probably thought they were adding a controversial element in the edit. I suppose they were right.

Human nature is such that discrimination happens all the time regardless. What about the aggresive homophobia to be found in Jamaican dancehall ragga. Buju Banton actually making a record urging people to 'shoot batty men in the head'. No different to that silly single posted up here earlier in the thread (to make a point, granted) I would imagine. But that dosen't mean all ragga fans are that homophobic.

A simple counter argument would of been fine. Jazzy B made a comment as he is perfectly entitled to do but responsible programme making should dictate balance.

Edited February 16, 2007 by mulf

[Godzilla]

OK Episode 3.

Lisa Stansfield. From Rochdale - in Yorkshire

[Godzilla]

OK Episode 3.

Lisa Stansfield. From Rochdale - in Yorkshire

Actually I quite enjoyed it other than that. Bit of Massive Attack and Portishead is always ok in our house

Godz

Edited February 16, 2007 by Godzilla

[Bigsoulman]

Madeline Bell...the darling of northern soul ...Knock On Wood sung to a Wigan dancers backdrop?? ...Eric Burdon??? well maybe back in the day

[Guest soul_hull]

here's the radio times preview for tonight's show...

Are old soul acts intrinsically more exciting, or has this generally excellent documentary series got less interesting and focused as it has progressed? The first show lauded greats like Geno Washington and Georgie Fame; this concluding part bravely tries to make a case for Omar and Mica Paris, who haven't worn well. The question of why record companies don't push black British acts into the mainstream is a thorny one, but it's muddied further by the fragmented, multicultural scenes of the 80s, 90s and 00s: acid jazz, trip-hop, grime and UK hip-hop are all covered tonight. As ever, there are plenty of good, familiar clips (Soul II Soul, Massive Attack) and good, perhaps unfamiliar ones (Rebel MC, Roots Manuva). Meanwhile, at 10pm there's the first of two Soul Britannia concerts, tonight featuring Sam Moore, Eric Burdon and - hurrah! - Geno Washington.

[Guest]

Off the top of my head Warren Boogaloo, Leon from Gloucester, Tim Ashibende, Ian Jackson are the most recent and the first DJ I really remember on the scene was Dalbert from Wellingborough and there was Big Ray up in Newcastle. I'm sure there are quite a few more but in the 70s there just weren't that many black kids about up our way. Harborough for instance had one black family. Most black kids were still into the music of their parents countries reggae etc and when they did get into soul they went for the new releases as the old style didn't have any particular significance for them and reggae approximated funk more than 'on the fours' Motown.

Possibly some of the promoters at the time could have done more to encourage the ones that were around but i doubt if there was too much discrimination, though I'm not ruling it out as I wouldn't have come across it.

Ady,

Can you remember Dalberts surname?, from W/borough myself and can't bring him to mind.

Mark

[Guest]

Actually I quite enjoyed it other than that. Bit of Massive Attack and Portishead is always ok in our house

Godz

Have to admitt not being into either Massive Attack or Portishead Surely this can not be an interpretation of British Soul .

The Portishead clip reminded me of drippy hippydom, from the likes of PENTANGLE.

Massive Attack are far too complicated to be regarded as Soul, give me a hard edged tune anyday over this P.C. twaddle.

[Guest Paul]

An interesting thread which raises many issues...

When I was a teenager most of my schoolmates were skinheads / suedeheads but it was just a fashion - there was nothing racist in it.

I have many black and asian friends but none of them are into 'northern soul'. Jazzie B is playing the race card either because he doesn't like or understand 'northern soul' or - more likely - because he wasn't part of it.

Ironically, in the mid 1970s many northerners felt completely ignored by the London-based media companies. Everything revolved around London and it often seemed as if the north and Scotland just didn't exist. But did we accuse anyone of being "racist" towards us? No, we just got on with our simple and dreary lives (...ramraiding hadn't been invented yet).

But it's very sad that over thirty years later so many people in the media are still too ignorant or lazy to look any further than the greater London area. And there is nothing more fascinating than the ordinary man on the street, yet the same old "celebrities" are wheeled out again and again to offer their thoughts on things they don't understand.

Let's hope one day someone will build a motorway or a railway line from London to Newcastle!

Paul Mooney

[Guest Paul]

Oh no, here I go again...

It's also important to consider that some media people think that "soul" means "black".

I remember a friend of mine proposed to produce a soul show for Metro FM in Newcastle but the programme controller checked the regional demographics and came to the conclusion that demand would be very low.

"There just aren't enough black people in the area," he said.

Paul Mooney

[manus]

Oh no, here I go again...

It's also important to consider that some media people think that "soul" means "black".

I remember a friend of mine proposed to produce a soul show for Metro FM in Newcastle but the programme controller checked the regional demographics and came to the conclusion that demand would be very low.

"There just aren't enough black people in the area," he said.

Paul Mooney

Hello Paul

Must be about 25 years since I last had a chat with you hope you are keeping well

It's sad that the likes of Metro FM take this sort of view - they used to be a lot more open to the idea of Soul music. Do you remember Big Phil , the black American who used to do a regular Soul show for Metro in the seventies, he was quite often in Callers on a Saturday buying the latest imports and used to DJ at the Playground in Newcastle. Wonder what happened to him?

All the best

Manus

[Ady Croasdell]

Ady,

Can you remember Dalberts surname?, from W/borough myself and can't bring him to mind.

Mark

No He's been in Florida for years, I spoke to him a couple of years ago, nice chap. i'm sure Paddy Grady had all about him in his book on Northants soul.

Ady

[Guest mel brat]

Oh no, here I go again...

It's also important to consider that some media people think that "soul" means "black".

I remember a friend of mine proposed to produce a soul show for Metro FM in Newcastle but the programme controller checked the regional demographics and came to the conclusion that demand would be very low.

"There just aren't enough black people in the area," he said....

Paul Mooney

This is precisely my point. The assumption that only black people like Black music (or that black people ONLY like 'Black music'!) is in itself ignorant and bigoted surely?

It's fairly obvious to me that the reason there are not many black Northern Soul DJs around is that lads of Afro Carribean descent in the 70's tended more towards Reggae, at least in the Birmingham area, and the Northern Scene was fairly well established by that time. Also, few black lads I happen to know came to Soul music via Tamla Motown and local youth clubs, as many of us did back then. In any case, we shouldn't HAVE to "prove we aren't racist" by filling some arbitary quota set by the BBC and their ilk damn it! How dare they!

Edited February 19, 2007 by mel brat

[Guest mel brat]

An interesting thread which raises many issues...

When I was a teenager most of my schoolmates were skinheads / suedeheads but it was just a fashion - there was nothing racist in it.

I have many black and asian friends but none of them are into 'northern soul'. Jazzie B is playing the race card either because he doesn't like or understand 'northern soul' or - more likely - because he wasn't part of it.

Ironically, in the mid 1970s many northerners felt completely ignored by the London-based media companies. Everything revolved around London and it often seemed as if the north and Scotland just didn't exist. But did we accuse anyone of being "racist" towards us? No, we just got on with our simple and dreary lives (...ramraiding hadn't been invented yet).

But it's very sad that over thirty years later so many people in the media are still too ignorant or lazy to look any further than the greater London area. And there is nothing more fascinating than the ordinary man on the street, yet the same old "celebrities" are wheeled out again and again to offer their thoughts on things they don't understand.

Let's hope one day someone will build a motorway or a railway line from London to Newcastle!

Paul Mooney

I second that emotion!

[Guest mel brat]

By not putting down my full quote this could also lead to or cause distortion on my opinion i was trying to get across.

As the majority of people who like Northern Soul or Soul music in some of it's other Genres myself included, we may be upset at how some of the comments did come across.

But somehow i can't see soul fans to suddenly stop turning up at venues up and down the country, because of a few comments made by people who clearly don't know anything about the past/current scene what so ever.

I'd feel slightly more worried and annoyed about the comments if it was made by someone influential who is involved and respected within the current Northern Scene.

Hence the other quote make your own program maybe then we MIGHT get a truer reflection of the current/pass Northern scene

Like i also said people know what music they like and why they like it so why do you feel you have to justify it

I don't imagine that I have to "justify" Soul music at all, as it does just fine without me. Also, I have constantly asserted that I am here commenting as a regular, all-round fan of Soul music, NOT on behalf of the Northern Soul scene exclusively. I am however thoroughly sick and tired of media outsiders telling me what I think, what I am and where I've been. I'm not in the least concerned that this programme will influence people who are ALREADY into the music and who have enough experience to offset such disinformation - but what of the younger viewers who may be eager for details about Soul music, but then are delivered this badly researched and downright biased clap-trap sold to them as "factual"?

Don't we all deserve a little better than this after all these years of being virtually ignored, without having to go out and "make our own programmes"!? This is the BBC. WE PAY for it to operate and to make programmes already, and plenty.

Edited February 19, 2007 by mel brat

[Godzilla]

Have to admitt not being into either Massive Attack or Portishead Surely this can not be an interpretation of British Soul .

The Portishead clip reminded me of drippy hippydom, from the likes of PENTANGLE.

Massive Attack are far too complicated to be regarded as Soul, give me a hard edged tune anyday over this P.C. twaddle.

I just said it was ok in our house, mate - didn't say it was soul . Congrats on most ridiculous use of the term "PC: for a while though

Godz

[Guest Bernadette]

Hello Paul

Must be about 25 years since I last had a chat with you hope you are keeping well

It's sad that the likes of Metro FM take this sort of view - they used to be a lot more open to the idea of Soul music. Do you remember Big Phil , the black American who used to do a regular Soul show for Metro in the seventies, he was quite often in Callers on a Saturday buying the latest imports and used to DJ at the Playground in Newcastle. Wonder what happened to him?

All the best

Manus

That's taken me right back! Spent any spare cash I had in Callers (still have the price stickers on some of me Vinyl).

Loved the Playground too (when there wasn't a stabbing!!!) Happy days

[manus]

That's taken me right back! Spent any spare cash I had in Callers (still have the price stickers on some of me Vinyl).

Loved the Playground too (when there wasn't a stabbing!!!) Happy days

Yeah that particular incident at the Playground was pretty bad. Callers was brilliant for imports and Tony Clark who worked there was a pretty knowledge guy and he used to do a decent spot at Julie's on the quayside. Ah the wonderful days before grey hair.

All the best

Manus

[Garethx]

Personally I love the fact that the mainstream media has never been able to pin down the soul scene to the complete satisfaction of those actively involved in it.

Surely one of the primary sources of the appeal of the whole thing is that any attempt at explaining it can never begin to unravel its complex mysteries. Long may it remain so.

Edited February 19, 2007 by garethx

[Guest]

I just said it was ok in our house, mate - didn't say it was soul . Congrats on most ridiculous use of the term "PC: for a while though

Godz

The point I was making was the fact that The BBC programme makers have interpretated these bands as a form of British Soul.

Frankly I do not see or read into it that way.

And too me it is P.C. twaddle crap whatever you wanna call it.

Certainly not Soul. More the sort of drivval played on a university campus for a bunch of dopeheads.

[Godzilla]

More the sort of drivval played on a university campus for a bunch of dopeheads.

Hey! Don't bogart that joint man!

[Guest Paul]

Hello Paul

Must be about 25 years since I last had a chat with you hope you are keeping well

It's sad that the likes of Metro FM take this sort of view - they used to be a lot more open to the idea of Soul music. Do you remember Big Phil , the black American who used to do a regular Soul show for Metro in the seventies, he was quite often in Callers on a Saturday buying the latest imports and used to DJ at the Playground in Newcastle. Wonder what happened to him?

All the best

Manus

Hello Manus,

I'm fine, thanks. I hope you are too.

Yes I remember Big Phil on Metro and Tony from Callers (and Julies). I bought lots of imports from Callers before heading to a club or back to Mick Powney's house for a private "soul weekender".

How did we all lose touch with each other?

What I remember most is that we were into all kinds of soul music - new and old - and everyone was keen to share knowledge.

I miss those days.

Paul Mooney

www.millbrand.com

Edited February 20, 2007 by Paul

[manus]

Hello Manus,

I'm fine, thanks. I hope you are too.

Yes I remember Big Phil on Metro and Tony from Callers (and Julies). I bought lots of imports from Callers before heading to a club or back to Mick Powney's house for a private "soul weekender".

How did we all lose touch with each other?

What I remember most is that we were into all kinds of soul music - new and old - and everyone was keen to share knowledge.

I miss those days days.

Paul Mooney

www.millbrand.com

Hello Paul

Mick Powney's house was certainly a hotbed of Soul in those day's- Do you see him much these day's? The last time I saw him I was putting on a regular Reggae night at the Collingwood Bar in Newcastle, I was stood outside waiting for the doors to open so we could set up the gear and Mickey pulled up in his car I couldn't persuade him to come in because he was meeting up with others for a meal, so we had a bit of chat and I assumed I'd see him again at some point.

The thing is we always think we'll bump into people again as we used to do when we younger but the years pass and before you know it's 30 years since we last saw someone and we still walk around believing we'll bump into them again before too long.

I bought the GC Cameron single you were involved in some years ago and it made me smile to think that how shocked we would have been when we were sitting around Mickey Powney's house to believe anyone of us could have gone on to be actually involved with the making of a real Soul record, rather than just worshipping from afar. But it shows if you pay your dues anything is possible.

The Jazzie B thing got to me a bit. I was looking at the thread on artists pictures and posters earlier today and the passion and appreciation shown by the soul fans on this site for Black music- for the collecting of anything that might bring them closer to the sound of Black America, the records, the photographs, the posters- that display of worship is the real Soul scene and no amount of misrepresentation, by television producers or musicians saying silly things off the top of their heads will ever change that.

All the best, Paul and keep in touch

Manus

Edited February 20, 2007 by manus

[Guest rasfoz]

Fair comments, but I'm not sure if the colour of the DJ is a reflection of the attitutes of the punters. I wasn't around in the 70's (more of a mid 80's mod type in London - I take it the Sri Lankan you refered to was Tony Shockman (sp?) . but I have never heard any racist comments at a Soul / Funk / Mod night oop north or darn sarf although it has always been white dominated.

Well im of jamaican descent & ive heard the odd few over the years at different places i posted about a previous example before im sure steve cato will give examples of the same thing if you ask him as he commented on the post but all in my experience are from the clueless wally stupid scooter hanger on type boneheads who have gone to a venue as some of their soul loving scooterclub mates.Example have a look through jon bucks photo albumn on this site theres one of 4 people sitting round a table called look at me im a fascist, 2 are boneheads ones wearing a blood & honour badge, now they are or were from dunstable i used to meet up with mark one of the boneheads before he was a bonehead mid to late 80s normally to go to buzzard niters or queensway hall ect, the other ones name has gone but he was always there too scooter rallies nighters soul nites & they had a pakistani friend tony i think who used to go to niters too( irony 2 boneheads a jamaican & a pakistani all on the same table) but there was a few of thier other mates who were more than a little bit racist & they told me so, who not to speak to or offer a fag too or ask for a light so it was there but not really from the 100% soul punter , i also met a smart looking skinhead at a nighter one night & politically he was a facist but not in a silly nf, bnp way, i think he was in the november the ninth scoceity or somthing anyway ,we had quite an in depth very grown up discussion about proud of heritage ect black music, british politics & culture ect even enoch powell it was odd really but i did respect him for explaining his views in mature manner not in any way nasty, so it was there but isolated not promoters djs or 96% of the clientell & i cant see beresford barrington meaning boneheads or the type when he couldnt get in or on at theese parties i think he was looking for stuff that wasnt there or was he pissing up someones back who knows maybe he has experienced it but i find it unlikely

[Platters 81]

i thought the 3rd episode was way better than the 2nd.....the interviewees seemed to know what they were talking about...i thought Portishead was pushing it a bit.....but whatever.....you would think Robert Elms was at last in an era he should know about........absent!.......on another topic the Barbican concert was good.....Sam Moore on first..brilliant and made it difficult for everyone else..afterwards (as Sam +Dave used to do to Otis on tour......old habits)......reminds me of the Syl Johnson set at the Frobisher last year....he was great......played some scorching blues guitar as well......telling Snake Davis off for having to transpose the key of one of his tunes so the band could back him........priceless

[Saxafone]

A far better programme on UKTV Documentaries today (repeated tonight) Soul Deep, part of a series apparently. Had Ben E King, Staples, Sam Cooke, Bobby Womack, Solomon King and dozens of brilliant archive clips.

They also defined the origins of the term crossover far better than anyone on here! Was the term applied to anyone off the gospel circuit that crossed over to sing secular music which was considered a no no. Even Sam Cooke apparently went under the name of Dean Cooke with his first releases because of the grief he knew he'd get.

Noticed at the end that it had the bbc logo in the credits, maybe someone there does know what they are doing, worth catching as I'm sure the future editions will be.

I was also at the Barbican concert and if it came over as brilliant on the telly, then the camera does tell lies !

Taff

[Pete S]

A far better programme on UKTV Documentaries today (repeated tonight) Soul Deep, part of a series apparently. Had Ben E King, Staples, Sam Cooke, Bobby Womack, Solomon King and dozens of brilliant archive clips.

They also defined the origins of the term crossover far better than anyone on here! Was the term applied to anyone off the gospel circuit that crossed over to sing secular music which was considered a no no. Even Sam Cooke apparently went under the name of Dean Cooke with his first releases because of the grief he knew he'd get.

Noticed at the end that it had the bbc logo in the credits, maybe someone there does know what they are doing, worth catching as I'm sure the future editions will be.

I was also at the Barbican concert and if it came over as brilliant on the telly, then the camera does tell lies !

Taff

Taff sorry to disagree with you but I've said elsewhere on this post, the first episode of Soul Deep was brilliant, the rest was utter rubbish and it got rightly slated on here at the time.

[Pete S]

Solomon King

[Saxafone]

Hiya Pete, getting me Ben E kings and King Solomon Burkes confused obviously, still in rehab after my 50th saturday but well spotted that man.

Will give the next episode a coat of looking at and let you know if I agree !!!

Taff

Edited February 20, 2007 by Saxafone

[Jordirip]

They also defined the origins of the term crossover far better than anyone on here! Was the term applied to anyone off the gospel circuit that crossed over to sing secular music which was considered a no no. Even Sam Cooke apparently went under the name of Dean Cooke with his first releases because of the grief he knew he'd get.

That's not how we in the UK define crossover though. If that was the case then anything soulful that wasn't singing about God would be termed crossover. I think the UK definition has been well and truly dissected properly on other threads.

Jordi

[Guest mel brat]

Well im of jamaican descent & ive heard the odd few over the years at different places i posted about a previous example before im sure steve cato will give examples of the same thing if you ask him as he commented on the post but all in my experience are from the clueless wally stupid scooter hanger on type boneheads who have gone to a venue as some of their soul loving scooterclub mates.Example have a look through jon bucks photo albumn on this site theres one of 4 people sitting round a table called look at me im a fascist, 2 are boneheads ones wearing a blood & honour badge, now they are or were from dunstable i used to meet up with mark one of the boneheads before he was a bonehead mid to late 80s normally to go to buzzard niters or queensway hall ect, the other ones name has gone but he was always there too scooter rallies nighters soul nites & they had a pakistani friend tony i think who used to go to niters too( irony 2 boneheads a jamaican & a pakistani all on the same table) but there was a few of thier other mates who were more than a little bit racist & they told me so, who not to speak to or offer a fag too or ask for a light so it was there but not really from the 100% soul punter , i also met a smart looking skinhead at a nighter one night & politically he was a facist but not in a silly nf, bnp way, i think he was in the november the ninth scoceity or somthing anyway ,we had quite an in depth very grown up discussion about proud of heritage ect black music, british politics & culture ect even enoch powell it was odd really but i did respect him for explaining his views in mature manner not in any way nasty, so it was there but isolated not promoters djs or 96% of the clientell & i cant see beresford barrington meaning boneheads or the type when he couldnt get in or on at theese parties i think he was looking for stuff that wasnt there or was he pissing up someones back who knows maybe he has experienced it but i find it unlikely

The scooter/mod scene is in no way representative of the mainstream Northern Soul scene - that would truly be a case of the tail wagging the dog!

[Guest rasfoz]

The scooter/mod scene is in no way representative of the mainstream Northern Soul scene - that would truly be a case of the tail wagging the dog!

I never for one minute ment it to sound like that , i was pointing out that i had witnessed it firsthand at northern soul events but that such stuff didnt come about from people on the northern scene but the minoraty of hangers on who wernt really into soul but came in with people who were involved in both the scooter & soul scene during this period in time

[Guest]

I have many black and asian friends but none of them are into 'northern soul'. Jazzie B is playing the race card either because he doesn't like or understand 'northern soul' or - more likely - because he wasn't part of it.

Paul Mooney

I think he just shit himself ,didnt talk to anybody like going to any strange place,i was scared to death once i was outside Wigan for the first time,but i loved the music so stukc it out,and when i was younger me mam used to take me to some strange places in sheffield full of blakc people with big hats(crowns) and at first i felt intimidated but once i had stukc it out for a bit,all was ok,pluss for all me mams faults she would talk to anybody so that helped break the ice,but i didnt think they where being racist i thought they where just lookin`out for each other,like anybody would in them days,same as if i went to "blue partys" in Brixton first hour would be a bit cold,but cause my mate was blakc and introduced me to other people eventualy i would start to loosen up,then enjoy the music even if it was reggae

Edited February 22, 2007 by ken

[Guest Paul]

I think he just shit himself ,didnt talk to anybody like going to any strange place,i was scared to death once i was outside Wigan for the first time,but i loved the music so stukc it out,and when i was younger me mam used to take me to some strange places in sheffield full of blakc people with big hats and at first i felt intimidated but once i had stukc it out for a bit,all was ok,pluss for all me mams faults she would talk to anybody so that helped break the ice,but i didnt think they where being racist i thought they where just lookin`out for each other,like anybody would in them days,same as if i went to "blue partys" in Brixton first hour would be a bit cold,but cause my mate was blakc and introduced me to other people eventualy i would start to loosen up,then enjoy the music even if it was reggae

Hello Ken,

Once the "shock barriers" have been broken down, it's amazing how soon people begin to feel at home. People usually find they aren't so different once they get to know each other.

Paul Mooney

[Guest]

Hello Ken,

Once the "shock barriers" have been broken down, it's amazing how soon people begin to feel at home. People usually find they aren't so different once they get to know each other.

Paul Mooney

but reggae!!!

[Guest terry1970]

The guy sporting those lambchop sideburns and green harrington jacket was ECCLES aka Danny Arkins , the appointed top boy @ Chelsea in those heady skinhead days. 69/70

The Terracing was the North Stand End @ Stamford Bridge . Where many a time I observed his almost military style of terrace ambush being carried out on unsuspecting rivial supporters.

It was also a few years later around 75/76 that a small contingent of Soul loving North Standers , would travel to Wigan for the odd all nighter.

With a London DJ called Alan Sullivan, who specialised in Funk and Northern and was also a bit of a face on the terraces.

I was part of that contingent which also included later day" House "Dj and record label owner Terry Farley . Also later day Acid House promoter GaryHaiseman.

In fact we also attended the Northern Soul events at Yate nr Bristol and Shades of Green Club @ Camberley.

However location more or less denoted our preference for Funk and we attended Crackers mostly and the CALI at Dunstable, and a host of other funk nights spread thropughout London the South Coast and the home counties.

The CALI [ California Ballrooms] a venue that was awash with live Soul acts throughout the 60,s/ 70,s, [ not to mentioned on Soul Britainia].

Tammi Lynn, William Bell,Al Green,Doris Troy,Eddie Floyd,The Four Tops, Jimmy Ruffin,Edwin Starr, Junior Walker,Fatback Band, johnny Guitar Watson, and thats just off the top of my head.

London and the south often get totally overlooked in the Soul history of UK clubbing .

Having just read IVORS comments I,m in total agreement the whole funk aspect of the south gets not a mention in any of these documentries.

Caister for instance is NOT what soul in Londons small club circuits was about.

Crackers , the Goldmine, Chags, Lacy Lady, skindles, the cali ballrooms, pre the en mass Caister was more underground and ran parralell to the northern scene.

Finally as a London boy [well old git now] I certainly found Jazzy B,s comments totally out of context, on Northern Soul.

I remember my first visit to the Casino , about 8 of us went up by National Coach and allthough being slightly apprehensive

was meet by only friendly people who had no hang ups on race.

The first time I stood on the Balconey in awe of the dancers, and fineally took to the floor at about 4am after plucking up the courage.

Lastly and this is a London thing, Robert Elms for as much stick as the guy seems to be recieving on this thread, The London airwaves would be a lesser place without his enthusisum for music, fashion and british youth cultures.

Hi id just like to say like most very young Southern Soul boys i was into a mixture of what was being charted in Blues n Soul and played at the various 'Soul ' nights which in 74 was a real mix of Soul / Funk and Northern Soul ( the UK released stuff ) . I went to Wigan with Alan Sullivan in 75 and he was a excellent Northern Dancer ( cue mass strange looks and even a few sneers when he danced Northern Style at Crackers to 'Heaven must be missing a Angel ' . To clear a few things up - Norman Jay was a straight up Soul boy and did indeed make a few trips to the mecca as well as London Funk nights such as 100 club and Hunters . He changed the name of his older brothers soundsystem from GT ( great tribulation ) to GT ( Good times ) in 79 .. when they became the first sound at carnival to play soul and Disco ... oh and yes thats danny Arkins and his chaps at St james park 69 / 70 ... great forum by the way /

[Seano]

Glad I missed it and my commiserations to everyone who watched it!

[Sceneman]

Just watched Soul Britannia...the programme touched on the Nothern scene very briefly..what has really got to me is once again is how the scene has been misrepresented Jazzie B claimed the scene was a racist one...he reckoned that he didn't feel that he would be welcomed and that there was not a black face to be seen at Northern soul clubs....I personally don't know where he tried to go and when, but from my own experiences as a female black soulie on the scene in 30 years... i have never come across this...in fact i felt more at ease in the Northern soul clubs than i have ever done in some of the reggae clubs..wouldn't it be great if for once programmes like these which sought to enlighten people actually give a more balanced account...Delx

It was bad back in the 60s when there was definately aparteid in clubs ,there were white clubs and black clubs ,just as there were hotels that had racist signs in the windows ,you prolly saw it on old movie docos.

Some soho clubs wouldnt let in black customers ,apart from members of certain bands .

Count suckles club was a totally black club and the Roaring 20s too(maybe a few white guys and gals) ,whereas the Scene was totally white ,so the black customers hung out at the Flamingo

Edited February 26, 2013 by sceneman