Rarest Stock Copy

[Geeselad]

On 12/01/2022 at 17:55, Bo Diddley said:

Is there a Youngblood Smith Verve issue? 

Or has it been mentioned before?

I've never seen one, but then, I'd only seen 1 scan of Dee Dee Barnes before this thread!

Sure I've seen one on those

[Robbk]

9 hours ago, Zanetti said:

Hi Robb - thanks so much.
Why exactly 6? And these test pressings could be in circulation? Sure-shot pressings then?
You mention Mercury - Was "What about Love" released there or am I misunderstanding you?

I use 6 commercial press run test pressings (as a general guess) because that's the regular number pressed up by the Detroit plant that pressed Motown's less important or emergency runs (ARP, I think), with whom Ron Murphy worked closely on their pressing his labels, and who pressed records he mastered, and from whom Ron acquired The Frank Wilson and Andantes issues.  Naturally, a larger, major national label like Mercury, might request a few more copies than Motown, for different departments or different geographic offices.  But, the amount probably would never be over 10, or less than 4 or 5.

[Robbk]

9 hours ago, Zanetti said:

Hi Robb - thanks so much.
Why exactly 6? And these test pressings could be in circulation? Sure-shot pressings then?
You mention Mercury - Was "What about Love" released there or am I misunderstanding you?

No.  I was referring to Jimmy Hart's "Tea House" on Blue Rock.

[Vadnochka]

What about Philippines 7" RCA issue of Roy Hamilton - Reach out for me / Impossible dream - Now that must be rare.

Images attached below - My brother Chris in Jersey has a white demo

Edited January 24, 2022 by Vadnochka

[Vadnochka]

[Vadnochka]

[Rick Cooper]

On 18/01/2022 at 16:00, Bo Diddley said:

Apologies if I've missed this being covered in this or another thread (as I often do) but...

Is there a stock copy of Youngblood Smith about? 

If so, it would be nice to see a scan.

Thanks

I did a search for Youngblood Smith on Record World's archive site but there is no mention of the record at all. Usually there is some mention of most singles so it's strange that the record never got any reviews or DJ pick. As a comparison I looked for some other Verve releases around 1966. The High Keys , Shalimars and Howard Guyton all got one mention each, which still isn't much for a major label. Could be Verve just issued singles in the hope that some might take off without spending much on promotion. 

[The Yank]

45 minutes ago, Rick Cooper said:

I did a search for Youngblood Smith on Record World's archive site but there is no mention of the record at all. Usually there is some mention of most singles so it's strange that the record never got any reviews or DJ pick. As a comparison I looked for some other Verve releases around 1966. The High Keys , Shalimars and Howard Guyton all got one mention each, which still isn't much for a major label. Could be Verve just issued singles in the hope that some might take off without spending much on promotion. 

       Youngblood Smith did get reviewed in Cashbox and got a B+ review in the June 25,1966 issue. Also reviewed that issue were "Talk Of The Grapevine" by Donald Height and "A Lady's Man" by the Volcanos. Both received a "Best Bet" rating. 

             Youngblood Smith was mentioned around the same time in Billboard but  not reviewed. 

 

[Zanetti]

Hi,

I have to ask again: is it really proven that copies of Rhonda Washington (Sure Shot) and the stock copy of Benny Sigler (Phil LA of Soul) exist? 

Can we always rely on the Price Guide? Thanks for the feedback

[Ted Massey]

On 08/01/2022 at 15:27, Zanetti said:

Thx @Dobber @Tricky - thats new to me

Mines like that 

[Ted Massey]

On 08/01/2022 at 15:12, Hammie said:

Never mind Dee Dee Barnes……I reckon Cindy Gibson Ist he rarest Arctic 

The rarest Arctic is Kenny Gamble Chains of love only known on a hand written label i sold it thru Manship years ago. It's the same track but slower that the Drifters issued  

[Hill868]

Thought this thread was about the rarest stock copies .......... not sure where a 45 known only from a couple of hand written test pressings really fits into the discussion ?

[Ephraim]

2 hours ago, Ted Massey said:

The rarest Arctic is Kenny Gamble Chains of love only known on a hand written label i sold it thru Manship years ago. It's the same track but slower that the Drifters issued  

That's interesting, I had never heard of that. Do you have a label scan you could share?

[Zanetti]

27 minutes ago, ephraim said:

That's interesting, I had never heard of that. Do you have a label scan you could share?

@ephraim

READ HERE

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, ephraim said:

That's interesting, I had never heard of that. Do you have a label scan you could share?

It's a test pressing so not strictly an issue

[Frankie Crocker]

On 20/12/2021 at 17:40, 45cellar said:

VEEP V-1253 Cindy Scott scarce as a Stock Copy but does exist.

It does indeed as I have one now. I had one ages ago, then acquired a demo - stupidly, I then sold the issue at The 100 Club. Years later, I regretted selling the issue and won another on eBay. So, there are at least two yellow issues, but I would estimate there are others out there. I quite like having an issue and a demo of a good tune, or in this case, two good tunes. Sad I know, but boy it helps me sleep better.

[Robbk]

3 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

It does indeed as I have one now. I had one ages ago, then acquired a demo - stupidly, I then sold the issue at The 100 Club. Years later, I regretted selling the issue and won another on eBay. So, there are at least two yellow issues, but I would estimate there are others out there. I quite like having an issue and a demo of a good tune, or in this case, two good tunes. Sad I know, but boy it helps me sleep better.

We had a mint yellow stock copy of the Cindy Scott, in Tom DePierro's record file at Airwave Records.  It disappeared at the same time as the Soul Frank Wilson, the Andantes VIP, and a few others.  However, naturally, that one likely ended up in the UK and sold there.  So IT may well be one of the two you describe, or perhaps not.  But I have seen another, as well.  I'm sure there are at least more than a handful.

[Julianb]

4 hours ago, Robbk said:

We had a mint yellow stock copy of the Cindy Scott, in Tom DePierro's record file at Airwave Records.  It disappeared at the same time as the Soul Frank Wilson, the Andantes VIP, and a few others.  However, naturally, that one likely ended up in the UK and sold there.  So IT may well be one of the two you describe, or perhaps not.  But I have seen another, as well.  I'm sure there are at least more than a handful.

Can't be that rare, I've had a few issues. Think I sold my last one to Bruce Doyle.

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Julianb said:

Can't be that rare, I've had a few issues. Think I sold my last one to Bruce Doyle.

I agree not that rare and certainly not worthy of inclusion in this kinda topic otherwise it will get over run with similar kind of releases.

[Tagtag]

 

Does a stock copy of this one exist??

[Vadnochka]

24 on popsike since Aug 2005 - never an issue !!

[Julianb]

33 minutes ago, Tagtag said:

 

Does a stock copy of this one exist??

OOTP BLUE COPY

[Dave Pinch]

45 minutes ago, Tagtag said:

 

Does a stock copy of this one exist??

yes its dark blue.. had one in my hands

[Tagtag]

Amazing, anyone have a label scan?

[Soulman]

5 minutes ago, Tagtag said:

Amazing, anyone have a label scan?

I've a feeling that Andy Lewis' (as in Paul Weller guitarist) copy is a stocker. Don't think he's on here but I'll drop him a message

[Tagtag]

Thanks, looking forward to seeing it.

[Julianb]

56 minutes ago, Julianb said:

OOTP BLUE COPY

Bugger. I was thinking of Patti Young☹

[Dave Pinch]

3 hours ago, Tagtag said:

Amazing, anyone have a label scan?

doesn`t seem to be one anywhere.. its dark blue with silver writing.  john manship sold it to tony dutton from harrogate mid to late 90s. tony ran his soul night there at the manhattan club for a few years on and off... me and my brother dj`d for him a handful of times so i got to see that copy quite a bit. he also had a blue king copy of cody black i`m slowly moulding.. tony sold up around 2008 and disappeared from the scene.. i think it went back to john manship but not 100% certain on that one

[Zanetti]

Hello everyone, Good evening,

I think its nice that the thread experiences a kind of revival again.
Therefore, I would like to contribute again with my two questions, which unfortunately no colleague has yet really responded to. Or do we simply not know?

Does copies exist of:

Benny Sigler PHIL-LA Of Soul Stock!
Rhonda Washington SURE-SHOT a copy at all

 

T H X

[Simon T]

3 hours ago, Dave Pinch said:

doesn`t seem to be one anywhere.. its dark blue with silver writing.  john manship sold it to tony dutton from harrogate mid to late 90s. tony ran his soul night there at the manhattan club for a few years on and off... me and my brother dj`d for him a handful of times so i got to see that copy quite a bit. he also had a blue king copy of cody black i`m slowly moulding.. tony sold up around 2008 and disappeared from the scene.. i think it went back to john manship but not 100% certain on that one

Fished this off the www many years ago, but dismissed it as i thought an issue would be red.

[Dave Pinch]

1 hour ago, Simon T said:

Fished this off the www many years ago, but dismissed it as i thought an issue would be red.

many thanks for that simon... some guys take some convincing

[Tagtag]

Amazing, the demo is hard to find but that takes the biscuit.

[Hammie]

On 21/02/2022 at 17:34, Dave Pinch said:

doesn`t seem to be one anywhere.. its dark blue with silver writing.  john manship sold it to tony dutton from harrogate mid to late 90s. tony ran his soul night there at the manhattan club for a few years on and off... me and my brother dj`d for him a handful of times so i got to see that copy quite a bit. he also had a blue king copy of cody black i`m slowly moulding.. tony sold up around 2008 and disappeared from the scene.. i think it went back to john manship but not 100% certain on that one

Got a blue Cody Black mate…..didn’t think it was ultra rare….certainly not in the category of a blue Vivian Carol 

[Dave Pinch]

5 hours ago, Hammie said:

Got a blue Cody Black mate…..didn’t think it was ultra rare….certainly not in the category of a blue Vivian Carol 

Cody not so much rare today. But 25 years ago when I first saw them think Cody was the first blue I saw in the flesh. Not seen another Vivian issue tho

[Dave Pinch]

On 21/02/2022 at 22:08, Tagtag said:

Amazing, the demo is hard to find but that takes the biscuit.

Sold my Vivian white demo when stock was found some years ago.. probably sold it at the wrong time but it’s not a record I remember with affection. I don’t make many bum deals but Vivian was part of the worst deal I ever did in 40 years of collecting records

[Soulman]

On 21/02/2022 at 14:44, Tagtag said:

Thanks, looking forward to seeing it.

Heard back from Andy, it's a white demo he has unfortunately

[Zanetti]

On 21/02/2022 at 18:47, Zanetti said:

Hello everyone, Good evening,

I think its nice that the thread experiences a kind of revival again.
Therefore, I would like to contribute again with my two questions, which unfortunately no colleague has yet really responded to. Or do we simply not know?

Does copies exist of:

Benny Sigler PHIL-LA Of Soul Stock!
Rhonda Washington SURE-SHOT a copy at all

 

T H X

Oh come on Guys. Anybody Out there? 

[Tlscapital]

16 hours ago, Hammie said:

Got a blue Cody Black mate…..didn’t think it was ultra rare….certainly not in the category of a blue Vivian Carol 

Cody Black on King blue stocker was never rare. At least not rarer than the demo FWIW. That all rarer stocker of "major" labels for 'collecctors' in search of the 'eye' catching label difference got hyped a lot by record dealers who began to 'tag' about any stocker from the likes of rarer black RCA of the rare white promo RCA numbers...

A commercial comment to pump up the price too often IME. Rare black stocker of H.B. Barnum 'it hurts too much to cry' on American RCA... True ! I've seen it offered for sale like so. Try and show me a demo for something really rare if ever. But that just doesn't exists. The Metros 'since I found my baby' even with Cody Black on King : not rarer on stock.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Tlscapital

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Tlscapital said:

Cody Black on King blue stocker was never rare. At least not rarer than the demo FWIW. That all rarer stocker for "major" labels for 'collecctors' in search of the 'eye' catching label difference got hyped a lot by record dealers who began to 'tag' about any stocker from the likes of rarer black RCA of the rare white promo RCA numbers...

A commercial comment to pump up the price too often IME. Rare black stocker of H.B. Barnum 'it hurts too much to cry'... True ! I've seen it offered for sale like so. Try and show me a demo for something rare if ever. But it just doesn't exists. The Metros 'since I found my baby' even like Cody Black on King : not rarer on stock.

Spot on it did and still does get hyped, you see it all the time when someone is trying to flog one.  There are many RCA stockers worthy of a mention in this topic for instance cause most aren't particularly rare, rarer than the demo maybe but not that rare in the scheme of things.

[Dave Pinch]

1 hour ago, Tlscapital said:

Cody Black on King blue stocker was never rare. At least not rarer than the demo FWIW. That all rarer stocker for "major" labels for 'collecctors' in search of the 'eye' catching label difference got hyped a lot by record dealers who began to 'tag' about any stocker from the likes of rarer black RCA of the rare white promo RCA numbers...

A commercial comment to pump up the price too often IME. Rare black stocker of H.B. Barnum 'it hurts too much to cry'... True ! I've seen it offered for sale like so. Try and show me a demo for something rare if ever. But it just doesn't exists. The Metros 'since I found my baby' even like Cody Black on King : not rarer on stock.

while i agree about the major label thing stock versus demo blown up by many, my experience of cody black on king while its not mega rare today.... i hadn,t seen one till the mid 90s only demos.. my experience is that its still much harder than the yellow demo and popsike also reflects this..16 demos to 2 issues... major label demos in the main are very common not that it stops some from goin for big money but most issues are nowhere near as rare as some claim to be

[Tlscapital]

4 minutes ago, Dave Pinch said:

while i agree about the major label thing stock versus demo blown up by many, my experience of cody black on king while its not mega rare today.... i hadn,t seen one till the mid 90s only demos.. my experience is that its still much harder than the yellow demo and popsike also reflects this..16 demos to 2 issues... major label demos in the main are very common not that it stops some from goin for big money but most issues are nowhere near as rare as some claim to be

Remember seing few Cody Black stockers on King in VG or even lesser condition attesting of the little if ever sales it must have had. But it's not telling that on Popsike indeed. OK likely rarer than I suggested then. But still, in my experience very few King 'blue' numbers are that rarer on stocker. And again that's only IME and not reflecting the whole wide world reality on the matter.

[Dave Pinch]

3 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Remember seing few Cody Black stockers on King in VG or even lesser condition attesting of the little if ever sales it must have had. But it's not telling that on Popsike indeed. OK likely rarer than I suggested then. But still, in my experience very few King 'blue' numbers are that rarer on stocker. And again that's only IME and not reflecting the whole wide world reality on the matter.

as i say i kind of agree with you also tim ..  major label stocks are fairly rare but none are unicorn rare lol. quite a few RCA, Columbia etc stocks are rarer than the demo but ALL the demos are super common even tho they sell for hundreds

 

[The Yank]

3 hours ago, Zanetti said:

Oh come on Guys. Anybody Out there? 

       As far as I know , the Benny Sigler is promo only. I have never seen a stock copy of it.

       With the Rhonda Washington, I've seen Sure-Shot 5026 listed on  few web sites as "What About Love"/ "Swing Town U.S.A." but neither shows pics of the 45. Also, I can't find any mention in it in any of the trades  (Billboard, Cashbox, Record World). And finally , I can't find the 45 getting airplay on any radio station. 

       I'm about 95% sure about the 2 45's.  If anyone has pics of either- please post ! 

[Hammie]

1 hour ago, Dave Pinch said:

while i agree about the major label thing stock versus demo blown up by many, my experience of cody black on king while its not mega rare today.... i hadn,t seen one till the mid 90s only demos.. my experience is that its still much harder than the yellow demo and popsike also reflects this..16 demos to 2 issues... major label demos in the main are very common not that it stops some from goin for big money but most issues are nowhere near as rare as some claim to be

Agree Dave it is a lot rarer than a Demo..

[Zanetti]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

       As far as I know , the Benny Sigler is promo only. I have never seen a stock copy of it.

       With the Rhonda Washington, I've seen Sure-Shot 5026 listed on  few web sites as "What About Love"/ "Swing Town U.S.A." but neither shows pics of the 45. Also, I can't find any mention in it in any of the trades  (Billboard, Cashbox, Record World). And finally , I can't find the 45 getting airplay on any radio station. 

       I'm about 95% sure about the 2 45's.  If anyone has pics of either- please post ! 

Hi Yank,
thanks for the feedback - unfortunately I haven't found any hint of existence yet either.
It's just surprising why their existence is referred to in relevant guidebooks. That also made me believe for a very long time.
YES - to the community - things worth knowing should definitely be posted.

[Robbk]

7 hours ago, Zanetti said:

Hi Yank,
thanks for the feedback - unfortunately I haven't found any hint of existence yet either.
It's just surprising why their existence is referred to in relevant guidebooks. That also made me believe for a very long time.
YES - to the community - things worth knowing should definitely be posted.

I've also never seen store stockers of those 2 records.

[Pete Fowler]

Surprised nobody's mentioned this, allegedly a one-off (not mine unfortunately) unless anyone has any other info?

[Mrtag]

I guess E. Williams On Jay Dee must be right up there with Them??

[Solidsoul]

I'll Do Anything" - Doris Troy on Calla.

Most red and white label copies are coloured demo's with "Promotional Copy Not For Sale" written on the right hand side. The red and white stock copies without the promotional info are much more scarce. With both being the same coloured label, it is not very noticeable.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Solidsoul

[Paraboliccurve]

I had a stock copy of Vivian Carol (sadly sold five or six years ago in a moment of weakness). The colour of the one above (which looks like a Verve blue on my screen) is way off, unless there were two stock versions - mine was a darker blue with a sort of greenish tinge in there.