Poor Quality Records

[Ageing Face]

This is one possibly for dealers or collectors. Having moved on a dozen or so records this weekend to upgrade them due to some people’s gradings not matching mine (but that’s a different thread that I’m sure has been covered many times) I wondered: if I’m not happy to keep records that I would grade at VG, is there a place for low quality records, records that are graded at Poor or Fair.

An insight would be appreciated 

[Mach]

I should imagine it depends on rarity and demand, personally i sometimes buy records in that condition just to own them, be nice to upgrade Gloria Hill on Deep but thats different story.

[Ageing Face]

1 minute ago, Mach said:

I should imagine it depends on rarity and demand, personally i sometimes buy records in that condition just to own them, be nice to upgrade Gloria Hill on Deep but thats different story.

So am I right in thinking that at that point it’s more about will be more about the ownership of the object than being able to play it?

[Mach]

In my case if i,m desperate for a record yes, i have bought records and still do in poor condition if playable (without skips) if i really want it, i wouldnt buy an unplayable record or distorted, tho some people do, i once sold a Sam Williams on Tower that was awfully distorted for little money and the buyer was highly delighted so there is definatley a market for them althought a limited one.

[Ageing Face]

1 minute ago, Mach said:

In my case if i,m desperate for a record yes, i have bought records and still do in poor condition if playable (without skips) if i really want it, i wouldnt buy an unplayable record or distorted, tho some people do, i once sold a Sam Williams on Tower that was awfully distorted for little money and the buyer was highly delighted so there is definatley a market for them althought a limited one.

I suppose it’s a different mind set, not mine, but it’s similar to me with scooters. I buy them that some would weigh in for scrap because I want them, but I can rebuild them whereas once scratched a record is scratched forever, which is why I ask the question 

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

52 minutes ago, Ageing Face said:

This is one possibly for dealers or collectors. Having moved on a dozen or so records this weekend to upgrade them due to some people’s gradings not matching mine (but that’s a different thread that I’m sure has been covered many times) I wondered: if I’m not happy to keep records that I would grade at VG, is there a place for low quality records, records that are graded at Poor or Fair.

An insight would be appreciated 

It depends on the rarity of the record. If I can get a rare record that I do not own but want, then I would take a VG copy provided its priced correctly. At some point if I can get an Ex or NM then I'll move it on. But there is no point buying VG copies of 10 quid records.

Also the age of the records now means that those coming to the market are often not in great condition. So the decision is do you get a copy or leave it in the hope that someone sells, or one pops up on evil bay or somewhere. 

There are of course mint freaks and they probably wouldn't entertain a VG copy, but I think most would at the right price.

[Ageing Face]

4 minutes ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

It depends on the rarity of the record. If I can get a rare record that I do not own but want, then I would take a VG copy provided its priced correctly. At some point if I can get an Ex or NM then I'll move it on. But there is no point buying VG copies of 10 quid records.

Also the age of the records now means that those coming to the market are often not in great condition. So the decision is do you get a copy or leave it in the hope that someone sells, or one pops up on evil bay or somewhere. 

There are of course mint freaks and they probably wouldn't entertain a VG copy, but I think most would at the right price.

I try to buy at VG+ as a minimum, but some people over grade and after listening to them I can’t comprehend what “Poor” sounds like

[Midnight Drifter]

As already mentioned, I also did buy the occasional rare tune in vg condition but figured at one point in time that it doesn't make any sense as I will never be happy with a bad copy. Besides, I didn't really enjoy selling those once I replaced them. All in all, it has a fishy taste, so I stopped buying vg or lower grades many moons ago..

[Mark4767]

Bought many big tunes with cracks that have a play back as excellent ,if playing them out who would no any different. and up to 90% cheaper.

[Ageing Face]

Just now, Mark4767 said:

Bought many big tunes with cracks that have a play back as excellent ,if playing them out who would no any different. and up to 90% cheaper.

Would a crack make it graded as “Poor” or does the play back quality lift the grading? I imagine a record graded as poor would sound like it had been cleaned with a Brillo pad

[Mark4767]

Not sure many i have bought that are listed as g+ because of the crack even so the play back is ex.

Even playing a record as poor in a big venue will not sound as bad as playing it at home.

[Ageing Face]

3 minutes ago, Mark4767 said:

Not sure many i have bought that are listed as g+ because of the crack even so the play back is ex.

Even playing a record as poor in a big venue will not sound as bad as playing it at home.

I can understand if the play back is good. It makes perfect sense, cos for me it’s about how it sounds, but it’s a gamble 

[Amsterdam Russ]

2 hours ago, Ageing Face said:

if I’m not happy to keep records that I would grade at VG, is there a place for low quality records, records that are graded at Poor or Fair.

No!

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

1 hour ago, Ageing Face said:

I try to buy at VG+ as a minimum, but some people over grade and after listening to them I can’t comprehend what “Poor” sounds like

Firstly for me its about UK or US grading because they are different. Grading itself is a little subjective and I've rarely had a really bad grading from the UK or US (maybe a couple in 40 years), but you have to understand that a UK grade will probably be lower than a US grade, so a UK VG+ will be lower than a US VG+. Therefore if its a UK 45 buy at Ex minimum. 

[Bryn]

I think most people are interested in the play grade styrene records with cracks can play without a click, therefore i would grade is it plays but clearly state if it was cracked. If you look at the big sellers on ebay e.g. carolina soul they are advertising records at fair, good, good+ etc.,. but they provide audio clips so I would just judge it on it's merits. in the UK if you said a record was only "good" most people would think it unplayable. I stopped trying to grade a while ago, it's too variable and emotive. Now, I just provide pictures and clips and let buyers make their own grading and bid accordingly.

[davidwapples]

There's one dj I knew who would happily buy vg minus or knackered copies of rare oldies to put in his box.

They would then play a bootleg or from a  cd Carver of the track and if anyone asked show them the original saying he was protecting it but had the original so could play a copy 

 

He said it saved him a fortune and still got spots

[Merve]

6 hours ago, Bryn said:

I think most people are interested in the play grade styrene records with cracks can play without a click, therefore i would grade is it plays but clearly state if it was cracked. If you look at the big sellers on ebay e.g. carolina soul they are advertising records at fair, good, good+ etc.,. but they provide audio clips so I would just judge it on it's merits. in the UK if you said a record was only "good" most people would think it unplayable. I stopped trying to grade a while ago, it's too variable and emotive. Now, I just provide pictures and clips and let buyers make their own grading and bid accordingly.

Have had records from Carolina Soul at G+ that many over here would sell as VG+. 

To the original poster - I've had the same mate, overgrading is a big problem, many disappointing records received. However,  cant see the problem in shifting them on as long as you downgrade to your own standards. Many, including myself,  would rather have a snap crackle & pop record they can afford than not own it at all. Its when you shell out for a record described as EX or M- that arrives as VG- I get the hump

[Ageing Face]

2 minutes ago, Merve said:

Have had records from Carolina Soul at G+ that many over here would sell as VG+. 

To the original poster - I've had the same mate, overgrading is a big problem, many disappointing records received. However,  cant see the problem in shifting them on as long as you downgrade to your own standards. Many, including myself,  would rather have a snap crackle & pop record they can afford than not own it at all. Its when you shell out for a record described as EX or M- that arrives as VG- I get the hump

I suppose the simple answer to the question  seems to be…… it depends. Because grading appears to be variable depending upon where it comes from and the subjective view of the person grading it, the grade given may be better than expected. Also, I can see that some people may want a record just to own it

It looks like it’s not about the grade someone else gives it, it’s a case of listen to the record and make your own grading 

[Chilli]

1 hour ago, Ageing Face said:

I suppose the simple answer to the question  seems to be…… it depends. Because grading appears to be variable depending upon where it comes from and the subjective view of the person grading it, the grade given may be better than expected. Also, I can see that some people may want a record just to own it

It looks like it’s not about the grade someone else gives it, it’s a case of listen to the record and make your own grading 

I think it's also important to think about the wider record buying public. 

 

Many on here are longstanding collectors and/or DJs on the scene and will often want the very best graded vinyl they can afford.  Outside of this relatively small bubble is a larger market of people who have no interest in DJing and can't really afford a mint version and just want to own a record to be able to play it at home.  Yes, they can buy boots, CDs or even download some tracks, but there's still a large group of people who want to collect original vinyl just for home listening but don't necessarily need it to be mint.  I fall into this bracket. I'd love to own mint versions of all the tracks I want to own, but I know I can't afford it, so as long as a record is still playable to a reasonable quality, I'd consider paying a much reduced price to be able to play a record on original vinyl on my home system. 

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

8 hours ago, Bryn said:

I think most people are interested in the play grade styrene records with cracks can play without a click, therefore i would grade is it plays but clearly state if it was cracked. If you look at the big sellers on ebay e.g. carolina soul they are advertising records at fair, good, good+ etc.,. but they provide audio clips so I would just judge it on it's merits. in the UK if you said a record was only "good" most people would think it unplayable. I stopped trying to grade a while ago, it's too variable and emotive. Now, I just provide pictures and clips and let buyers make their own grading and bid accordingly.

Interestingly I have a rare record which is styrene and from a visual inspection looks G+ (UK) and Fair (US). The styrene is heavily marked scuffed and scratched, however when played it sounds great and the play grade would be Ex . So how to grade for a buyer (not that I'm selling !) ?

Maybe the only option is a sound file and say to the buyer its your decision ?

[Chalky]

28 minutes ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

Interestingly I have a rare record which is styrene and from a visual inspection looks G+ (UK) and Fair (US). The styrene is heavily marked scuffed and scratched, however when played it sounds great and the play grade would be Ex . So how to grade for a buyer (not that I'm selling !) ?

Maybe the only option is a sound file and say to the buyer its your decision ?

Simply give both visual and play grade.  As you say photo and sound file can be supplied as well, the buyer then has all the information to make a decision. 

[Solidsoul]

If I have a rare record that is in mint condition and it's worth a lot, I feel a little guilty playing it.

But if the rare record is a bit scruffy, but plays ok, I feel alright playing it as many times as I want!

Edited December 14, 2021 by D9 Ktf

[Jhsoulnotts]

It's a personal thing and I can only explain my feelings, not what others should(nt) do. I have a thing about music played on vinyl and for me a knackered vinyl copy is always better than a stream or MP3. All of my records will get played, I would never buy a tune to keep locked away - if I can get to hear a tune I love on vinyl, by buying a poorer quality record until I find an upgrade, then I'd take that over nothing. In the same process of thought - If I scratched a record I loved (horror) I would be gutted, but I wouldn't start looking for a new copy. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Jhsoulnotts

[Girdwoodinc]

7 hours ago, davidwapples said:

There's one dj I knew who would happily buy vg minus or knackered copies of rare oldies to put in his box.

They would then play a bootleg or from a  cd Carver of the track and if anyone asked show them the original saying he was protecting it but had the original so could play a copy 

 

He said it saved him a fortune and still got spots

Who? Just so I can avoid booking them 

[Ageing Face]

6 hours ago, D9 Ktf said:

If I have a rare record that is in mint condition and it's worth a lot, I feel a little guilty playing it.

But if the rare record is a bit scruffy, but plays ok, I feel alright playing it as many times as I want!

I can see that as the value of the record is in the condition as well as the rarity so the more you play it the more you lose value 

[Ageing Face]

2 hours ago, Jhsoulnotts said:

It's a personal thing and I can only explain my feelings, not what others should(nt) do. I have a thing about music played on vinyl and for me a knackered vinyl copy is always better than a stream or MP3. All of my records will get played, I would never buy a tune to keep locked away - if I can get to hear a tune I love on vinyl, by buying a poorer quality record until I find an upgrade, then I'd take that over nothing. In the same process of thought - If I scratched a record I loved (horror) I would be gutted, but I wouldn't start looking for a new copy. 

I play vinyl at home & at soul events, but stick with CD at rallies because quite often we’re set up in rooms without stages & don’t want to damage my records from the occasional bumps to the decks