Funk Brothers moonlighting sessions

[Wheelsville1]

Ive just spent all afternoon listening to Funk Brothers backing tracks,many i know but also many i dont and not one of them are motown. It makes me wonder if they ended up doing more moonlight tracks than actual motown tracks. Any thoughts on this. Chris.

[Wilxy]

TBH  with you Chris, this is what mystifies me on another thread, the mind boggles with regard in particular to the Funk Brothers and their "moonlighting" etc., however when you hear them  on Motown it's obvious, but having said that, some of the Philly musicians in particular were very good at emulating them??Mike Terrys' Baritone Sax always gives away some clue, however perhaps the mystery will never come to light, unless of course, there is somebody still around to verify it! 

I was lucky enough back in the day to witness the remaining Funks at Manchester Apollo, and whilst several legends down, remember the hair on the back of my neck standing on end, when hearing the opening bars of ....."It's a shame", something that will remain with me forever.....I could have been in the Snakepit...........

[Wheelsville1]

11 minutes ago, Wilxy said:

TBH  with you Chris, this is what mystifies me on another thread, the mind boggles with regard in particular to the Funk Brothers and their "moonlighting" etc., however when you hear them  on Motown it's obvious, but having said that, some of the Philly musicians in particular were very good at emulating them??Mike Terrys' Baritone Sax always gives away some clue, however perhaps the mystery will never come to light, unless of course, there is somebody still around to verify it! 

I was lucky enough back in the day to witness the remaining Funks at Manchester Apollo, and whilst several legends down, remember the hair on the back of my neck standing on end, when hearing the opening bars of ....."It's a shame", something that will remain with me forever.....I could have been in the Snakepit...........

Yes Mike i know what you mean about other musicians emulating them. I always thought that the baritone sax on the appreciations i can't hide it was Mike Terry,but it is actually Willie Mitchell who brought the appreciations to detroit and none of the musicians on that track are from detroit. 

[Wilxy]

Great point Chris, and I naively discounted many outside of the Motor City, to produce such similar ilk musically .......The Beauty of the sound produced to compete obviously and didn't realise Willie Mitchell had so much influence on the Detroit scene??

[Wheelsville1]

1 hour ago, Wilxy said:

Great point Chris, and I naively discounted many outside of the Motor City, to produce such similar ilk musically .......The Beauty of the sound produced to compete obviously and didn't realise Willie Mitchell had so much influence on the Detroit scene??

Yes Mike,another song that emulates the detroit sound and so many think its detroit and yet its actually cincinnati is Herman Lewis who's kissing you tonight. 

[Robbk]

5 hours ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Ive just spent all afternoon listening to Funk Brothers backing tracks,many i know but also many i dont and not one of them are motown. It makes me wonder if they ended up doing more moonlight tracks than actual motown tracks. Any thoughts on this. Chris.

Not likely, as from 1964-early '72, there were recording sessions 24 hours a day, round the clock in The Snakepit, and they also recorded some at Golden World, and in both places after the major portion of the company's employees moved to L.A. in mid 1972, until late 1974.  After Motown relocated to L.A. those who stayed in Detroit (MOST of Motown's previous musicians), became freelancers, who, in addition to their sporadic Motown work, worked for Ed Wingate's Ric Tic, Armen Boladian's Westbound, HDH's Invictus/HotWax, and other Detroit labels, plus, they worked on sessions for which major nationwide record companies wanted to record in Detroit.  Plus they also traveled to Chicago and Philadelphia to work on sessions.  There was no more moonlighting, because they were not on salary with any particular record company.  The DID record a lot for non-Motown companies, but, even adding up their post 1972 work to their pre-1972 moonlighting work, I would guess that that might not (and probably wouldn't) be more than their phenomenal crankout, non-stop, 16-18 hour daily marathons during their peak Motown years.

[Frankie Crocker]

32 minutes ago, Robbk said:

Not likely, as from 1964-early '72, there were recording sessions 24 hours a day, round the clock in The Snakepit, and they also recorded some at Golden World, and in both places after the major portion of the company's employees moved to L.A. in mid 1972, until late 1974.  After Motown relocated to L.A. those who stayed in Detroit (MOST of Motown's previous musicians), became freelancers, who, in addition to their sporadic Motown work, worked for Ed Wingate's Ric Tic, Armen Boladian's Westbound, HDH's Invictus/HotWax, and other Detroit labels, plus, they worked on sessions for which major nationwide record companies wanted to record in Detroit.  Plus they also traveled to Chicago and Philadelphia to work on sessions.  There was no more moonlighting, because they were not on salary with any particular record company.  The DID record a lot for non-Motown companies, but, even adding up their post 1972 work to their pre-1972 moonlighting work, I would guess that that might not (and probably wouldn't) be more than their phenomenal crankout, non-stop, 16-18 hour daily marathons during their peak Motown years.

Thanks for posting as usual. Your contributions are always well thought through.

Picking up on the point you referred to regarding session musicians travelling to Philadelphia. In another recent Soul-Source thread, I said the Peanut Duck recorded at the Virtue Studio, sounded distinctly Detroitish. This got me thinking that footloose musicians maybe travelled from their home city to contribute to recordings in other cities. Although the Detroit session men were kept busy, I suspect an opportunity for them to record elsewhere arose when they were on tour.

[Robbk]

56 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Thanks for posting as usual. Your contributions are always well thought through.

Picking up on the point you referred to regarding session musicians travelling to Philadelphia. In another recent Soul-Source thread, I said the Peanut Duck recorded at the Virtue Studio, sounded distinctly Detroitish. This got me thinking that footloose musicians maybe travelled from their home city to contribute to recordings in other cities. Although the Detroit session men were kept busy, I suspect an opportunity for them to record elsewhere arose when they were on tour.

After Motown moved to L.A., and only Jamerson and I think, one more Funk Brother went with them a few months later, The remaining funk Brothers were soon taken off salary, if I'm not mistaken, as their workload with Motown dropped slowly but steadily.  They were made back into piecework workers, and free to record in Detroit and other cities, for any other company who wanted to use them.  They worked quite a bit for Ed Wingate's Ric Tic, Don Davis (with Stax-Volt, Cotillion and his later free-lance projects with major and small labels, Arman Boladian's Westbound records, and HDH's labels, and probably on a few of Ollie McLaughlin's later projects.  I do remember hearing on interviews and reading that PIR and other Philly Sound labels used them to record some of their projects in Detroit, and also sometimes brought them to Philadelphia to record.  I think I remember Dennis Coffey, Bob Babbitt, Ray Monette and Bobby Eli mentioning that The Funk Brothers traveled to Philadelphia to work for PIR.

[Wheelsville1]

8 hours ago, Robbk said:

Not likely, as from 1964-early '72, there were recording sessions 24 hours a day, round the clock in The Snakepit, and they also recorded some at Golden World, and in both places after the major portion of the company's employees moved to L.A. in mid 1972, until late 1974.  After Motown relocated to L.A. those who stayed in Detroit (MOST of Motown's previous musicians), became freelancers, who, in addition to their sporadic Motown work, worked for Ed Wingate's Ric Tic, Armen Boladian's Westbound, HDH's Invictus/HotWax, and other Detroit labels, plus, they worked on sessions for which major nationwide record companies wanted to record in Detroit.  Plus they also traveled to Chicago and Philadelphia to work on sessions.  There was no more moonlighting, because they were not on salary with any particular record company.  The DID record a lot for non-Motown companies, but, even adding up their post 1972 work to their pre-1972 moonlighting work, I would guess that that might not (and probably wouldn't) be more than their phenomenal crankout, non-stop, 16-18 hour daily marathons during their peak Motown years.

If as you say Robb which i am not doubting that they worked 24hours round the clock in the snakepit,how on earth were they able to do moonlight work? 

[Robbk]

7 minutes ago, Wheelsville1 said:

If as you say Robb which i am not doubting that they worked 24hours round the clock in the snakepit,how on earth were they able to do moonlight work? 

I didn't mean that EACH MUSICIAN was playing music 24 hours per day 7 days a week.  They worked in shifts.  I meant that The Snakepit was open, and Motown salaried and/or piecework musicians were working there 24 hours a day, 6 or 7 days each week during those peak years.  From 1962 on, they had several musicians who played each instrument, so they all weren't needed for each session.  For example, during their peak, Motown had Joe Hunter, Johnny Allen, and Johnny Griffith on piano - after Hunter left salaried position, to become a freelance producer, he still worked at Motown sporadically, much of the rest of 1964, as a contract worker on a session by session basis.  Popcorn Wylie could play in random sessions after he returned.  Earl Van Dyke could fill in on some sessions when he wasn't needed for playing organ.  Maurice King played on heavily orchestrated sessions.  For drums, for example, they had Benny Benjamin, Pistol Allen, and Uriel Jones, at their recording  peak.  But, they also used other Detroit drummers on a session by session basis, like Melvin Davis, and George McGregor.  They had several Sax players.  A large proportion of Detroit's recording session musicians worked as auxiliary session players at Motown.