Detroit produced 45's on non-Detroit labels !

[Wilxy]

As a "Born Again Detroit" collector (specifically) for the last 20 years anyway, and having read some superb articles by some very well versed Soul Source contributors in relation to the Motor City over the years, I have been intrigued by the information gleaned regarding to "out of town artist(e)s utilising the superb recording facilities in Detroit!

                 I appreciate there are some wonderful books and label related publications, regarding the entire Detroit label repertoire, including a superb label listing compiled by Chalky several years ago on Soul Source, but am both fascinated and eager to learn of the non-Detroit labels and artists that used the likes of  United Sounds/Golden World studios to name but a few!

                 I am aware of the labels such as American Arts, and Big Wheel and the obvious Atlantic, and Volt labels utilised by Ollie McClaughlin and Don Davis, and furthermore the hybrid Pied Piper material released courtesy of RCA, who were also a vehicle for many Detroit artist(e)s, but the anomalies are many.....Mike Terry produced many items on both Chicago and Philadelphia output, like Arctic, and Giant/Okeh, etc. but  an "obvious" anomaly Billy Hambric-I found true love on Drum, written by Don Juan Mancha, that differences of opinion in several publications highlight.......I won't elaborate further at this stage but hopefully open up viewpoints and opinion, and furthermore glean more information to assist my collecting habit!!!

 

 

[Wheelsville1]

43 minutes ago, Wilxy said:

As a "Born Again Detroit" collector (specifically) for the last 20 years anyway, and having read some superb articles by some very well versed Soul Source contributors in relation to the Motor City over the years, I have been intrigued by the information gleaned regarding to "out of town artist(e)s utilising the superb recording facilities in Detroit!

                 I appreciate there are some wonderful books and label related publications, regarding the entire Detroit label repertoire, including a superb label listing compiled by Chalky several years ago on Soul Source, but am both fascinated and eager to learn of the non-Detroit labels and artists that used the likes of  United Sounds/Golden World studios to name but a few!

                 I am aware of the labels such as American Arts, and Big Wheel and the obvious Atlantic, and Volt labels utilised by Ollie McClaughlin and Don Davis, and furthermore the hybrid Pied Piper material released courtesy of RCA, who were also a vehicle for many Detroit artist(e)s, but the anomalies are many.....Mike Terry produced many items on both Chicago and Philadelphia output, like Arctic, and Giant/Okeh, etc. but  an "obvious" anomaly Billy Hambric-I found true love on Drum, written by Don Juan Mancha, that differences of opinion in several publications highlight.......I won't elaborate further at this stage but hopefully open up viewpoints and opinion, and furthermore glean more information to assist my collecting habit!!!

 

 

To my knowledge,Billy Hambric was produced in new york. Chris. 

[The Yank]

Here's one for the list- 

 

[Wilxy]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

Here's one for the list- 

 

Crackin' Tune, and in my collection.

[Simon T]

2 hours ago, The Yank said:

Here's one for the list- 

 

do you happen to know about why there were two different designs of the promotional WD labels?

[Robbk]

On 04/11/2021 at 12:26, Wheelsville1 said:

To my knowledge,Billy Hambric was produced in new york. Chris. 

That is correct!  Hambric was a New York singer who had recorded for Bobby and Danny Robinsons' labels.  His Drum record, produced and written by Detroiter, Don Juan Mancha, was produced while Don was on a long visit to New York to meet his old Motown colleague, Robert Bateman, and to work with his deal finding middleman agent, The Drifters' Johnny Terry, to try to procure financing for Detroit productions he'd already recorded in Detroit, and to garner future production and distribution deals from record companies with national distribution.  I've read an interview with Mancha in which he told the story of how he and Terry got the Trav-Ler Production deal with Scepter Wand, and how the Billy Hambric project happened.  He wrote the songs for Hambric while in New York, but they couldn't get a deal for recording with a big, national label, so had to settle for getting a small-time financier for a one-off, small locally distributed New York label.  I think they recorded it at Bell Sound.  I don't think they got New York's best recording Soul band led by Richard "T", and with Pretty Purdie on drums, and many of New York's best Soul/R&B/Jazz musicians.  So, the songwriting sounds somewhat like a Mancha Detroit song, but the instrumental doesn't sound all that much like it was recorded in a Detroit studio, played by Detroit musicians.  Lots of Robert Bateman's New York productions, with instrumentals played by Richard T's band, sound like Motown (they were Jobete NY's in-house band), or they sound like Golden World/Ric-Tic, or they sound like Don Davis' Thelma or Groovesville, or like his Solid Hitbound recordings.  They were "The Funk Brothers", or "Wrecking Crew" of New York, and The East Coast, and Carl Davis' band in Chicago.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Robbk

[Julianb]

Dave Moore was telling me about a 45 like this a few weeks ago. Think it was Philip Mitchell but can't remember!

Dave, if you read this, perhaps you can enlighten us?

[Chalky]

Most if not all on Chess Records subsidiary Check-Mate.

[Mal C]

here's a stab, Detroit Sounds of Friction – I’m leaving you / Heavy Sound inc, recorded in Louisville.

[Mal C]

actually that's not right is it, they are from Detroit, but it wasn't recorded there...and put out else where.. back to the drawing board..

[The Yank]

16 hours ago, Simon T said:

do you happen to know about why there were two different designs of the promotional WD labels?

    I would guess there were 2 different pressing plants that pressed up the 45's. That would also explain the "Dearly Beloved" and "My Dear Beloved" issues

A few more for the list Andrea Henry and Spyder Turner on MGM, Emanuel Laskey's "Lucky..." on WIld Deuce, and the Honeybees on Garrison

   I also think the Charmaines "Eternally" was recorded in Detroit.

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by The Yank

[Solidsoul]

Get It Baby/ Quit Twisting My Arm - Stanley Mitchell - Dynamo

content://com.android.chrome.FileProvider/images/screenshot/16361266099411475959419.jpg

[The Yank]

A few more for the list -

  Mary Wells - "Dear Lover", "Fancy Free", "Can't You See...", "Me And My Baby"- Atco

Platters- "With This Ring", "Washed Ashore" - Musicor

    

     There are probably more from these artists.

[Wilxy]

OK, a few more to consider, having got sidetracked slightly whilst airing some of the vinyl, with a few "curvreballs" in amongst them!

Ruby Andrews I got a bone to pick with you ABC

Volcanos Laws of love/Lady's man Arctic

Some of the Backbeat stuff, Some of the Blue Rock releases. The Boo items written by Bridges/Knight?Eaton.....

Some of the Buddah stuff featuring JJ Barnes, and the Monitors-Fence around your heart?

Betty Lavette on Calla-I feel good all over/Only your love can save me...

Tony Clarke Landslide Chess,           Sharon Soul s' Coral output,      Willie Hatcher on Cotillion

Charmaines on Date

Several items on Duke, including 2 from Bobby Bland-Yum-Yum tree, and these hands small but mighty?

Junior Parker-These kind of blues.....Barbara Lewis on Enterprise....Belita Woods/Betty Lavette on Epic

Laura Lee and the Dells versions of Your Song?

Luther Ingram-Run for your life-Hurdy-Gurdy

Johnny Burke-Love on a lease plan-Joanne

Johnny Daye-Good Time-Jomada

 

To Be Continued, thanks for your assistance.......

[The Yank]

Time/ Brent Records had a trio of 45's made in Detroit in the early 60's-

Laura Johnson, Donays and Marva Josie. 

Edited November 6, 2021 by The Yank

[Mal C]

Which Marva Josie tracks were recorded in Detroit?  
 

I interviewed her in the early 2000’s  that chat is on a tape somewhere.  She told me the recording of ‘Don’t’ nearly never happened as Horace Ott was really really really late for the session, maybe gave them a bit of a push or intensity to get it right. 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Mal C

[Mal C]

here is one I have always wondered about, Bobby williams - when you play ( you gotta pay)  / Sure Shot, says arranged by joe Hunter… 

[Solidsoul]

If There's Anything Else You Want - Roddy Joy - Red Bird.content://com.android.chrome.FileProvider/images/screenshot/16361997188711877267207.jpg - Red bird.

Edited November 6, 2021 by D9 Ktf

[The Yank]

1 hour ago, Mal C said:

Which Marva Josie tracks were recorded in Detroit?  
 

 

[Wilxy]

2 hours ago, Mal C said:

here is one I have always wondered about, Bobby williams - when you play ( you gotta pay)  / Sure Shot, says arranged by joe Hunter… 

Several of the Bobby Williams tracks were "allegedly" recorded in Detroit, including I've only got myself to blame......

[Wheelsville1]

2 hours ago, Wilxy said:

Several of the Bobby Williams tracks were "allegedly" recorded in Detroit, including I've only got myself to blame......

Yes you are right,they were detroit recordings.My favourite being baby i need your love,i have this on uk action. 

[Wilxy]

38 minutes ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Yes you are right,they were detroit recordings.My favourite being baby i need your love,i have this on uk action. 

Great tune, picked it up cheaply on SureShot.......

[Robbk]

On 05/11/2021 at 13:05, The Yank said:

A few more for the list -

  Mary Wells - "Dear Lover", "Fancy Free", "Can't You See...", "Me And My Baby"- Atco

Platters- "With This Ring", "Washed Ashore" - Musicor

    

     There are probably more from these artists.

There are.  Robert Bateman and Andre Williams recorded Mary Wells in Detroit for 20th Century Fox

Bateman and Wylie recorded New York's Luther Ingram in Detroit for their HIB Records

Wand recorded New York's some of Chuck Jackson last Wand recordings (1965-66?) in Detroit

Don Davis (in very late 1961) recorded Ohio's O'Jays in Detroit and leased their cuts to New York's Apollo Records

Years later (1965-66), Imperial had The Ojays record in Detroit produced by Don Davis' Solid Hitbound Productions

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Robbk

[Wilxy]

33 minutes ago, Robbk said:

There are.  Robert Bateman and Andre Williams recorded Mary Wells in Detroit for 20th Century Fox

Bateman and Wylie recorded New York's Luther Ingram in Detroit for their HIB Records

Wand recorded New York's Chuck Jackson in Detroit

Don Davis recorded Ohio's O'Jays in Detroit and leased their cuts to New York's Apollo Records

Years later, Imperial had The Ojays record in Detroit produced by Don Davis' Solid Hitbound Productions

 

Thanks Robb.

[Dave Moore]

On 05/11/2021 at 07:10, Julianb said:

Dave Moore was telling me about a 45 like this a few weeks ago. Think it was Philip Mitchell but can't remember!

Dave, if you read this, perhaps you can enlighten us?

Can't remember that specific 45 but one that's always confused many 'DJs' on the mic is.

Valentinos - Sweeter Than The Day Before - Chess

Even a cursory listen to the backing track tells you exactly where (and who), is responsible for it. As confirmed to Tats by Bobby Womack himself. 

Dave  

 

 

[Wilxy]

1 hour ago, Dave Moore said:

Can't remember that specific 45 but one that's always confused many 'DJs' on the mic is.

Valentinos - Sweeter Than The Day Before - Chess

Even a cursory listen to the backing track tells you exactly where (and who), is responsible for it. As confirmed to Tats by Bobby Womack himself. 

Dave  

 

 

TBH Dave, I appreciate that the Valentinos were a Detroit group, always thought it was a Chicago production?

[Wheelsville1]

43 minutes ago, Wilxy said:

TBH Dave, I appreciate that the Valentinos were a Detroit group, always thought it was a Chicago production?

The valentinos originated from cleveland ohio.I was once told that it was the funk brothers moonlighting on sweeter,can anyone confirm this? 

[Simon T]

In the early 89's Guy Hennigan was playing a load of 'band tracks' of Detroit stuff, one of which was the Valentinos. I think they had come from the same studio tapes find, but no idea where the tapes were located.

[Robbk]

Most (almost all) of the nationally distributed labels headquartered outside Detroit, who released records by Detroit artists, did so by leasing Detroit productions recorded in Detroit by Detroit producers.  So, several of the responses to the OP don't really meet the spirit of his original request. 

He stated:  "As a "Born Again Detroit" collector (specifically) for the last 20 years anyway, and having read some superb articles by some very well versed Soul Source contributors in relation to the Motor City over the years, I have been intrigued by the information gleaned regarding to "out of town artist(e)s utilising the superb recording facilities in Detroit!"

He did NOT ask for Detroit producers' Detroit productions and recordings of Detroit artists, leasing those recordings to out-of-state record companies.  there are too many of the latter to list here, and not interesting, as they were all done for the same reason, to get their songs heard by the national audience, rather than the tiny local, or small regional audiences.

He wanted to find out which out-of-state record companies brought their artists to Detroit to record, and take advantage of Detroit's stable of excellent musicians, arrangers, recording engineers, recording studios, and sometimes, rent the use their producers, as well.

 

[Robbk]

6 hours ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Yes you are right,they were detroit recordings.My favourite being baby i need your love,i have this on uk action. 

In late 1964, or the beginning of 1965, Detroit's Joe Hunter made a deal with Don Robey, to produce recordings on several of Robey's Houston-based artists, with Duke, Peacock, BackBeat and Sure-Shot Record labels.  Some of them were totally, or partially recorded in Houston, at Robey's usual facilities, and others in Detroit, recorded at United Sound.  Although not positive about which were recorded where (other than a handful in Detroit, I'd guess that about two thirds (or, at least 60%) of them were recorded in Detroit.  But, we know that he also recorded a fair amount in Houston, because he mentioned that he liked the relaxed atmosphere in the Houston facilities as compared to Motown.  The artists included Bobby Bland, Buddy Lamp, Bobby Williams, and several others.  Some of Robey's artists resided in Detroit, and didn't record for Robey's labels before his deal with Hunter, so I believe their signing to Robey's labels came as a result of their production deal.

[Robbk]

11 hours ago, The Yank said:

 

 

11 hours ago, D9 Ktf said:

If There's Anything Else You Want - Roddy Joy - Red Bird.content://com.android.chrome.FileProvider/images/screenshot/16361997188711877267207.jpg - Red bird.

I think that Bateman and Wylie recorded the tracks in Detroit, but I doubt that Roddy Joy also came to Detroit to record the vocal.  But, I guess it is possible, because I've been told that they did bring Luther Ingram to Detroit to record his HIB cut.

[Robbk]

On 05/11/2021 at 15:16, The Yank said:

Time/ Brent Records had a trio of 45's made in Detroit in the early 60's-

Laura Johnson, Donays and Marva Josie. 

Laura Johnson was Correc-Tone Records' office secretary, and contracted singing artist.  So was Marva Josie (although she resided in Toronto at that time.  The Donays were also a Detroit group, and resided in Detroit.  The reason they ended up on Bob Shad's Brent and Time New York-based labels was because Robert Bateman (Correc-Tone's A&R man and Chief producer (They also had Popcorn Wylie, and Don Juan Mancha) took a trip to New York in early 1963, to get national pressing and distribution deals with larger record companies there.  They had been produced in Detroit, but Correc-Tone and its owner, Wilbur golden, had cash flow problems at that time, and they didn't have the money to press up those three records, and market them, even regionally.  So Golden hoped to use the cash infusion from the lease proceeds to fund production of other recording projects he and Bateman had planned.  As it turned out, several of them were leased out, as well, including The Pyramids second record, a Buddy lamp, and Herman Griffin record, as well as Marva Josie's follow up.

[The Yank]

Here's a few more-

Stemmons Express' "Woman, Love, Thief" uses the backing track to the Precisions "Such Misery" (Karma then Wand)

Tom and Jerrio's "Boo-Ga-Loo" uses a backing track that is extremely close to the Contours unreleased "Do The See Saw"  (ABC) 

Holly Maxwell's "Don't Say You Love Me" -Star - According to the Don't Forget The Motor City site, the backing track was cut at Golden World

    And a minor correction- Laura Johnson, Marva Josie and the Donays were all released in 1962 not 1963. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by The Yank

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

Here's a few more-

Stemmons Express' "Woman, Love, Thief" uses the backing track to the Precisions "Such Misery" (Karma then Wand)

Tom and Jerrio's "Boo-Ga-Loo" uses a backing track that is extremely close to the Contours unreleased "Do The See Saw"  (ABC) 

Holly Maxwell's "Don't Say You Love Me" -Star - According to the Don't Forget The Motor City site, the backing track was cut at Golden World

    And a minor correction- Laura Johnson, Marva Josie and the Donays were all released in 1962 not 1963. 

Yes.  That's right.  They were fairly early in Correc-Tone's operations, when they already ran into cash flow problems.  It was an earlier trip to New York for Bateman.  I got it mixed up with Bateman's second trip, when he leased The Pyramids to VJ, and several recordings to Double-L, and got the distribution deal with Atlantic.

[Dave Moore]

12 hours ago, Wilxy said:

TBH Dave, I appreciate that the Valentinos were a Detroit group, always thought it was a Chicago production?

The Chess Valentinos were a Chicago based outfit (the Womack Brothers).  "Sweeter" is a Funk Brothers recording. 

Dave   

11 hours ago, Simon T said:

In the early 89's Guy Hennigan was playing a load of 'band tracks' of Detroit stuff, one of which was the Valentinos. I think they had come from the same studio tapes find, but no idea where the tapes were located.

Don't quote me but I kinda remember that Guy told me he obtained them from Ed Wolfrum. 

Dave 

 

[Wilxy]

17 hours ago, Robbk said:

There are.  Robert Bateman and Andre Williams recorded Mary Wells in Detroit for 20th Century Fox

Bateman and Wylie recorded New York's Luther Ingram in Detroit for their HIB Records

Wand recorded New York's Chuck Jackson in Detroit

Don Davis recorded Ohio's O'Jays in Detroit and leased their cuts to New York's Apollo Records

Years later, Imperial had The Ojays record in Detroit produced by Don Davis' Solid Hitbound Productions

 

Any idea where Luther Ingrams' Hurdy-Gurdy and Smash 45's were recorded?

[The Yank]

   According to Dave Moore's book "The Philly Sound", the backing track for these singles were cut in Detroit-

Volcanos- "Help Wanted"/ "A Lady's Man"

Rotations- "(Put A Dime On) D-9 

Barbara Mason- "Bobby Is My Baby" 

[Robbk]

13 hours ago, Wilxy said:

Any idea where Luther Ingrams' Hurdy-Gurdy and Smash 45's were recorded?

Those vocals by Luther were recorded in New York.  I'm pretty sure the music tracks to The Hurdy  Gurdy were recorded in New York.  I'm not sure about the Smash Record.  If I remember correctly, I've seen it written by usually reliable sources that the music tracks were both recorded in New York, but also that they were recorded in Detroit.  So, I guess it is safe to assume that Luther recorded the vocals for the Smash cuts in New York, and the instrumentals were either cut totally in New York, or split between New York and Detroit between different tracks in one place or the other, or started in one city, and finished (Including mixing) in the other.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Robbk

[Dave Moore]

6 hours ago, The Yank said:

   According to Dave Moore's book "The Philly Sound", the backing track for these singles were cut in Detroit-

Volcanos- "Help Wanted"/ "A Lady's Man"

Rotations- "(Put A Dime On) D-9 

Barbara Mason- "Bobby Is My Baby" 

There's a great story about these (and other), tracks by John Rhys Eddins who engineered them in Detroit. It includes  Berry Gordy's 'lads' taking the tape off the machine and unrolling it down the street! 

Dave  

[Blackcab]

The Four Tracks on Mandingo surely must've been recorded in Detroit. I've heard it said that this was recorded at Magic City studios, not sure if that's just speculation but it makes sense if you compare it to a record like The Young Sirs. They have a similar "shrill" sound, don't mean that in a bad way in this case haha, think both are brilliant.

[Robbk]

Just now, BlackCab said:

The Four Tracks on Mandingo surely must've been recorded in Detroit. I've heard it said that this was recorded at Magic City studios, not sure if that's just speculation but it makes sense if you compare it to a record like The Young Sirs. They have a similar "shrill" sound, don't mean that in a bad way in this case haha, think both are brilliant.

Yes, I believe The Group's manager mentioned in an interview, that he took his Toledo, Ohio group to Detroit, to record.  Of course, we know that Ernest Burt's Magic City Studio was formerly Wilbur Golden's Correc-Tone Studio, at 8912 Grand River Ave.

[Wilxy]

On 07/11/2021 at 22:14, Dave Moore said:

There's a great story about these (and other), tracks by John Rhys Eddins who engineered them in Detroit. It includes  Berry Gordy's 'lads' taking the tape off the machine and unrolling it down the street! 

Dave  

Hi Dave, apologies but could you elaborate, on John Rhys' involvement, as I was under the illusion that the Rotations was done at Virtue studios in Philadelphia????, and furthermore the latter with reference to the tape unrolling!

[Dave Moore]

I'm not 100% convinced that The Rotations are actually the vocalists on 'Dime/Nickel'. There is at least one Virtue Studio Acetate crediting The Inspirations. (A group that also recorded with the guys involved).

Jimmy Bishop (Arctic Records) went to Detroit with the intention of pitching a hook up between Motown and his own company to Berry Gordy. Unsurprisingly it didn't materialise and Berry showed him the door.  Bishop then recorded some tracks at Ed Wingate's Golden World Studio using the Funk Brothers which John Rhys Eddins engineered. Berry got wind and sent his 'boys' round who 'took names' and demanded the tapes. They then went outside, unravelled the tapes and rolled them in the street thus rendering them useless.  After this episode JRE set up a duplicate tape machine ensuring that if they came back they would still have the tracks intact. (As told by John Rhys Eddins).

Weldon McDougal told me a very similar tale, though he thought the sessions may have actually been at Motown. (I think Weldon may have thought that GW was Motown as later when he worked at Motown it was).   The tapes from these session were subsequently taken back to Philly and The Dyno-Dynamic team of Weldon, Luther Randolph and Johnny Stiles recorded the vocals and the end product saw releases on the Arctic label. 

There are still a few anomalies exist over the Detroit/Philly link ups... for instance the Joe Douglas - Crazy Things - Playhouse 45.  The label is stand out Philly and the flip is a Bobby Martin song but no one seems to know how the Jack Ashford/Mike Terry song ended up on the flip. 

Dave  

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

On 04/11/2021 at 18:40, Wilxy said:

As a "Born Again Detroit" collector (specifically) for the last 20 years anyway, and having read some superb articles by some very well versed Soul Source contributors in relation to the Motor City over the years, I have been intrigued by the information gleaned regarding to "out of town artist(e)s utilising the superb recording facilities in Detroit!

                 I appreciate there are some wonderful books and label related publications, regarding the entire Detroit label repertoire, including a superb label listing compiled by Chalky several years ago on Soul Source, but am both fascinated and eager to learn of the non-Detroit labels and artists that used the likes of  United Sounds/Golden World studios to name but a few!

                 I am aware of the labels such as American Arts, and Big Wheel and the obvious Atlantic, and Volt labels utilised by Ollie McClaughlin and Don Davis, and furthermore the hybrid Pied Piper material released courtesy of RCA, who were also a vehicle for many Detroit artist(e)s, but the anomalies are many.....Mike Terry produced many items on both Chicago and Philadelphia output, like Arctic, and Giant/Okeh, etc. but  an "obvious" anomaly Billy Hambric-I found true love on Drum, written by Don Juan Mancha, that differences of opinion in several publications highlight.......I won't elaborate further at this stage but hopefully open up viewpoints and opinion, and furthermore glean more information to assist my collecting habit!!!

 

 

This might be of interest Wilxy.....

https://windlefreelance.com/2020/11/20/its-better-to-cry-the-appreciations-of-charlotte/

ATB

Andy

[Robbk]

On 10/11/2021 at 09:23, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

This might be of interest Wilxy.....

https://windlefreelance.com/2020/11/20/its-better-to-cry-the-appreciations-of-charlotte/

ATB

Andy

Harry Balk was friendly with the owner of Pittsburgh's American Arts Records, so he made a production deal to lease his Detroit productions on his Detroit artists to that label.  It's not like out-of-towners came to Detroit to use their facilities and musicians.  Balk and Mikhanic would have used those same facilities and arrangers, and musicians, and Detroit singers, whether or not they had a financier from Detroit or Pittsburgh.  It was similar when he leased his Detroit productions on The Volumes to New York's Old Town, or leased those on The Parakeets to Jubilee, or when Fred Brown leased his Detroit productions on Ortheia Barnes to New York's Coral Records, etc. ,etc.  I could list hundreds of such cases.  There were many, many fewer cases of out-of-town record companies sending non-Detroit artists to Detroit to use Detroit's sound facilities and/or arrangers and songwriters, and producers, such as Imperial sending The O'Jays, Wand sending Chuck Jackson, Platters' Musicor background tracks recorded in Detroit studios; 20th Century Fox sending Mary Wells to Detroit (rather letting her record in her own city of residence), for her old ex-Motown colleagues (Robert Bateman and Andre Williams);  Chicago's Ric Williams of Zodiac/Aquarius/Boo sending Ruby Andrews(Stackhouse) and The Brothers of Soul/Creations and Candace Love to The Brothers of Soul's home town(Detroit) to record; Chicago's Bob Catron of Cortland/Witch/Ermine Records sending Geraldine Hunt to Mike Hanks in Detroit to record; and Chicago's Joshie Armstead sending several of her Chicago artists to Detroit to be recorded by Detroit's Mike Terry at United Sound Studio and, maybe another studio or 2.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Robbk

[Wilxy]

Thank you very much for that information Robb, it is very much appreciated! Please feel free to elaborate further in due course if you would, as I find  the whole subject fascinating.......

[Blackcab]

13 hours ago, Robbk said:

Harry Balk was friendly with the owner of Pittsburgh's American Arts Records, so he made a production deal to lease his Detroit productions on his Detroit artists to that label.  It's not like out-of-towners came to Detroit to use their facilities and musicians.  Balk and Mikhanic would have used those same facilities and arrangers, and musicians, and Detroit singers, whether or not they had a financier from Detroit or Pittsburgh.  It was similar when he leased his Detroit productions on The Volumes to New York's Old Town, or leased those on The Parakeets to Jubilee, or when Fred Brown leased his Detroit productions on Ortheia Barnes to New York's Coral Records, etc. ,etc.  I could list hundreds of such cases.  There were many, many fewer cases of out-of-town record companies sending non-Detroit artists to Detroit to use Detroit's sound facilities and/or arrangers and songwriters, and producers, such as Imperial sending The O'Jays, Wand sending Chuck Jackson, Platters' Musicor background tracks recorded in Detroit studios; 20th Century Fox sending Mary Wells to Detroit (rather letting her record in her own city of residence), for her old ex-Motown colleagues (Robert Bateman and Andre Williams);  Chicago's Ric Williams of Zodiac/Aquarius/Boo sending Ruby Andrews(Stackhouse) and The Brothers of Soul/Creations and Candace Love to The Brothers of Soul's home town(Detroit) to record; Chicago's Bob Catron of Cortland/Witch/Ermine Records sending Geraldine Hunt to Mike Hanks in Detroit to record; and Chicago's Joshie Armstead sending several of her Chicago artists to Detroit to be recorded by Detroit's Mike Terry at United Sound Studio and, maybe another studio or 2.

 

 

Did you quote the wrong post here Robb? Some valuable information but I don't see what the connection is between Harry Balk and The Appreciations. The relevant bit from the article:

 

"Their next recording was “I Can’t Hide It” / “No, No, No” (Aware 1066). Hattie set up Aware for this sole release. The tracks were recorded in 1966 at the Golden World / Ric Tic Records Studios in Detroit. The group liked the Motown sound and wanted to be part of it. Willie Mitchell (band leader, producer, wind and keyboard player) coached and arranged the session and, according to Charles, played baritone sax. Mitchell is perhaps more associated with Memphis than Detroit. In reality however he wrote, produced, arranged and recorded a number of tracks for Lee Rogers, Buddy Lamp and others  on Detroit labels such as Wheelsville, Premium Stuff and D-Town, either from his Memphis base or in Detroit itself. The Aware release enjoyed some success in the south east and mid-west regions."

Seems like a perfect example of the phenomenon that the original poster was looking for with a Charlotte based group on a Charlotte Label travelling up to Detroit to use their recording studios.

 

[Robbk]

 

2 hours ago, Blackcab said:

Did you quote the wrong post here Robb? Some valuable information but I don't see what the connection is between Harry Balk and The Appreciations. The relevant bit from the article:

 

"Their next recording was “I Can’t Hide It” / “No, No, No” (Aware 1066). Hattie set up Aware for this sole release. The tracks were recorded in 1966 at the Golden World / Ric Tic Records Studios in Detroit. The group liked the Motown sound and wanted to be part of it. Willie Mitchell (band leader, producer, wind and keyboard player) coached and arranged the session and, according to Charles, played baritone sax. Mitchell is perhaps more associated with Memphis than Detroit. In reality however he wrote, produced, arranged and recorded a number of tracks for Lee Rogers, Buddy Lamp and others  on Detroit labels such as Wheelsville, Premium Stuff and D-Town, either from his Memphis base or in Detroit itself. The Aware release enjoyed some success in the south east and mid-west regions."

Seems like a perfect example of the phenomenon that the original poster was looking for with a Charlotte based group on a Charlotte Label travelling up to Detroit to use their recording studios.

 

Yes, somehow I did.  Sorry.  I meant to quote from Wilxy's original post on this thread, where he mentioned that some Detroit recordings ended up on American Arts.  And I was pointing out that the Detroit productions that ended up on American Arts were Harry Balk's Detroit-based artists, recorded by Balk in Detroit, with recordings leased to American Arts, because the owner of that label was financing Balk's productions, and it wasn't the situation of interest that Wilxy had described of non-Michigan record companies sending their signed artists to Detroit to take advantage of the accomplished Detroit sound engineers, producers, arrangers and musicians. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Robbk

[Wilxy]

As this is likely to be an ongoing topic (for myself anyway), and as I work through my playboxes over the next few weeks (only on Fridays I might add), I have a few more "questions" to add, for example the Mala / Bell links to the topic subject, in particular regarding Melvin Davis and Tobi Legend?                                          The Millage label, i.e. The Kazia release and later on Kelly St. Clair?                                                                       Red-Bird label , Roddie Joy ? Revue label in particular regarding Garland Green?                                                 Smash label inc. Scott Brothers/Irene & Scotts/all included Theo/Coff/Babbit in production, etc, and the "old chestnut" Luther Ingram & G-Men I spy for the FBI.....? Lastly tonight the Soul Dimension label from New York with regard to the Smith Brothers.......

Thanks in anticipation.

 

[Robbk]

On 04/11/2021 at 12:40, The Yank said:

Here's one for the list- 

 

This was totally a Detroit-based project, with The owner of Detroit's Travler Lodge/Motels, named Montgomery (I think his first name was Jack-but not positive) financing Don Juan Mancha's and some other Detroit productions, and leasing them to Flo Greenberg's Scepter/Wand/Garrison Records, through connection/agent, New York-based -Johnny Terry (then a member of The Drifters).  Terry was the conduit for several Detroit producers to get their record projects' recordings leased to New York labels.  The singer, with the stage name, "Jack Montgomery", was really a Detroit artist named Marvin Jones.  So, this was NOT a case of a big out-of-town record company sending their own signed East Coast-based artist to Detroit.  It was a Detroit producer trying to get his project funded by someone who could distribute the resultant record nationally.