Epitome Of Sound - Legit?

[Ageing Face]

Can anyone help me out with this?

I‘be acquired a copy of You Don’t Love Me- Epitome Of Sound. I’ve checked on Discogs to see if it’s legit & whilst it has the matrix number etched in the dead wax on the B side, there’s nothing on the A side, nor does it have raised numbers under the label

I’ve seen black and white bootleg copies, but not red and cream like this

Does anyone have any insight 

Thanks in advance 

[Mick Boyle]

As soon as I read that there isn’t a raised number under the label I instantly thought bootleg. But looking at the pic I have to say is certainly looks like the real deal. (Strange label flat line at the bottom )
Mines packed away at the moment so can’t check runout for you but fingers crossed. 

[Garrison]

the hallmark  or numbers under the label are very small   easily missed .

I've seen some copies identical to yours 

With no numbers   ,   it was mentioned that they are counterfeit     not to sure myself 

[Ageing Face]

Thanks Mick,

The flat at the bottom is another thing that makes me wonder. I just can’t imagine a bootlegger would bother etching the number 

[Ageing Face]

2 minutes ago, Garrison said:

the hallmark  or numbers under the label are very small   easily missed .

I've seen some copies identical to yours 

With no numbers   ,   it was mentioned that they are counterfeit     not to sure myself 

I’ll run my fingers over the label again to check. Although I’m doing it more in hope than expectation 

[Woodbutcher]

Boot/counterfeit ... the typeface/printing of the Lynette Music and the Arr/Prod details is all wonky ... ! 

And if there's no sign of the mirrored MSI.Co stamp under the label it's definitely a wrong'un ... 

[Spook]

There are not raised numbers under the label but  raised letters " MISCO ".

Up's MSICO !!

Edited November 1, 2021 by Spook

[Woodbutcher]

1 minute ago, Spook said:

There are not raised numbers under the label but  raised letters " MISCO ".

 

MSI.Co ... 

[Ageing Face]

1 minute ago, Woodbutcher said:

Boot/counterfeit ... the typeface/printing of the Lynette Music and the Arr/Prod details is all wonky ... ! 

And if there's no sign of the mirrored MSI.Co stamp under the label it's definitely a wrong'un ... 

That’s what I was expecting. I got it in a box full. If it had been legit it would have made all the others free of charge 

[Ageing Face]

3 minutes ago, Spook said:

There are not raised numbers under the label but  raised letters " MISCO ".

Up's MSICO !!

Still can’t find them. It’s not looking good  

[Soul16]

I’ve compared the photo to my copy of the record and both the run in and run out widths look correct. The label colour looks right too, the red text looks a little fuzzy, but that could be the photo quality I guess.

It looks like an original to me. If it is a boot, a lot of effort has gone into it.

When feeling for the raised lettering, relax and only apply very light pressure with your finger. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Soul16
Wording

[Ageing Face]

Thanks for that, I’ll try again. The record came with around a dozen others, which were mainly 70’s so it stood out & that’s why I wanted to check. 
I don’t know if you can see (my photographic skills aren’t great) but the B side definitely has the matrix etched in - why would a bootlegger do that?

[Pk 22dj]

I’m sure my copy has a slight chop to the bottom of the label

[Ageing Face]

17 minutes ago, Pk 22dj said:

I’m sure my copy has a slight chop to the bottom of the label

If there are others out there that are legit & look the same, then that’s one thing off the negative list. Thanks for that 

[Zoomsoulblue]

If you look on one of the photos you can see slight raised letters or marking

[Soul16]

See attached image from your photo. It's a long shot, but try this location for the lettering.

[Ageing Face]

7 minutes ago, Zoomsoulblue said:

If you look on one of the photos you can see slight raised letters or marking

That’s smaller than I thought. I’m also obviously looking in the wrong place. I was looking around the edge of the label 

[Ageing Face]

2 minutes ago, Soul16 said:

See attached image from your photo. It's a long shot, but try this location for the lettering.

I’ll give it one last try. It makes you remember what a minefield buying records can be 

If I’d bought it as being legit I’d be worried, but I’ve never found a bargain in all the time I‘be been buying records, so now I’m desperate for it to be right 

[Coalvillefletch]

I thought the raised letters were on the B side from memory?  They're not always in the same place either I'm sure.

To be honest it does look legit to me.

 

Good luck!!

[Soul16]

9 minutes ago, Coalvillefletch said:

I thought the raised letters were on the B side from memory?  They're not always in the same place either I'm sure.

To be honest it does look legit to me.

 

Good luck!!

The letters are on both sides of the record. They can appear anywhere relative to the label text of course, but obviously always the same distance from the centre hole.

The record is definitely legitimate in my opinion too.

 

[Pga1]

Hiya, I have one the same as yours and I couldn't find the raised lettering. People who have looked at it say it's legit ?  I know I paid £3 and over 30 years ago. The reason I remember it is I bought garnet mimms green demo ' as long as I have you'  with it and was disappointed that it was a live sounding version. What a waste of a quid.  I'm gonna dig epitome of sound out and have another look.   As for garnet I swapped it for some cd's off a mate and then he sold his collection to Tim brown.  When I see that lovely demo sold for silly money I always think, bugger me they'll be bloody disappointed, cheers

[Ageing Face]

18 minutes ago, Soul16 said:

The letters are on both sides of the record. They can appear anywhere relative to the label text of course, but obviously always the same distance from the centre hole.

The record is definitely legitimate in my opinion too.

 

Found it!! Only on the B side for now, but I’ll take itThis is definitely a date for the diary- my first bargain, just hope it doesn’t take me another 40 odd years to find another.

The dilemma now is; do I bung the guy a few more quid as I bought it as a boot or keep my mouth shut cos he was happy with the deal?

Thanks to everyone for your help I wouldn’t have got there without it

[Davlee]

Do the right thing.

[Ageing Face]

19 minutes ago, Davlee said:

Do the right thing.

I know I have to. The guy’s a fellow scooterist who I’ll see around at rallies next year. Even if I give him £100 I’m paying less than the going rate & I get 14 more records for free

[Merve]

I bought one in a junk shop in Chicago in 1980 EXACTLY the same as the record pictured by Aging Face even down to the cut off label at the bottom. I couldn't find the raised numbers under the label either but didn't look hard to be fair. So either there was a batch like this or its my old copy. No doubt its original though- I'd be more suspicious of the white demo's if buying to be honest

[Simon T]

On 02/11/2021 at 22:34, Merve said:

I bought one in a junk shop in Chicago in 1980 EXACTLY the same as the record pictured by Aging Face even down to the cut off label at the bottom. I couldn't find the raised numbers under the label either but didn't look hard to be fair. So either there was a batch like this or its my old copy. No doubt its original though- I'd be more suspicious of the white demo's if buying to be honest

I bought one in the UK around that time of a major very knowledgeable  dealer. No cut off bottom or raised numbers.

I was always weary of it being an original, but sold it to another major very knowledgeable  dealer who said it was an original. The blotching got progressively worse over time which i assumed a reaction in in the glue.

[Ageing Face]

3 minutes ago, Simon T said:

I bought one in the UK around that time of a major very knowledgeable  dealer. No cut off bottom or raised numbers.

I was always weary of it being an original, but sold it to another major very knowledgeable  dealer who said it was an original. The blotching got progressively worse over time which i assumed a reaction in in the glue.

I know what you mean, I was really unsure. I’m by no means an expert & if it wasn’t for the guys on here I’d have probably sold it on as a boot for £15

[Ficklefingers]

There is still a burning question tho, as highlighted by Woodbutcher, in that the print on your copy is miss-aligned whilst all the other copies pictured are all straight-lined print ??

Not making comment either way as to the legitimacy of your copy - but it does seem odd.. look also at the positioning of the text, particularly the right hand side.. doesn't correlate with the positioning on the other copies posted

Edited November 4, 2021 by Ficklefingers
additional text

[Merve]

24 minutes ago, Ficklefingers said:

There is still a burning question tho, as highlighted by Woodbutcher, in that the print on your copy is miss-aligned whilst all the other copies pictured are all straight-lined print ??

Not making comment either way as to the legitimacy of your copy - but it does seem odd.. look also at the positioning of the text, particularly the right hand side.. doesn't correlate with the positioning on the other copies posted

Just a thought - Nothing to back it up so only a thought....Its a New York production distributed from New York. Mine was found in Chicago so it could perhaps have been pressed at a local plant rather than hauled from NY ? Would explain the minor differences ?

I'd always assumed that the cut off was the square end of a roll of paper as it ran out on the printer, but, have no idea how they printed labels & attached them at the plant - Is this feasible or am I away with the fairy's ?

 

[Ageing Face]

25 minutes ago, Merve said:

Just a thought - Nothing to back it up so only a thought....Its a New York production distributed from New York. Mine was found in Chicago so it could perhaps have been pressed at a local plant rather than hauled from NY ? Would explain the minor differences ?

I'd always assumed that the cut off was the square end of a roll of paper as it ran out on the printer, but, have no idea how they printed labels & attached them at the plant - Is this feasible or am I away with the fairy's ?

 

This is getting more confusing. I’ve just gone over the record again with my phone on maximum zoom and found the letters RP etched in the dead wax. Could it be a re-press?

[Pga1]

As I said previously mine is the same including cut off. Not had a chance to look yet.  Merves theory is a possibility, cheers

[Soul16]

RP = Robert Paladino (I would have thought)

[Pga1]

Other possibility, first run of copies. Cats & pigeons, cheers

[Pga1]

The bloke who I got my copy from bought it between 1977 & 8o if that has any relevance ?, Cheers

[Dave Pinch]

On 01/11/2021 at 22:22, Woodbutcher said:

Boot/counterfeit ... the typeface/printing of the Lynette Music and the Arr/Prod details is all wonky ... ! 

And if there's no sign of the mirrored MSI.Co stamp under the label it's definitely a wrong'un ... 

its original.. there are copies of this where the stamper is missing.  the vinyl is 100% correct. it was only bootlegged on the white promo.. i just sold an original white promo the vinyl and markings are the same as this one in the header cant recall the promo being stamped under the label.. mind you label was seen to on it

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Dave Pinch

[Ageing Face]

11 minutes ago, Pga1 said:

The bloke who I got my copy from bought it between 1977 & 8o if that has any relevance ?, Cheers

That fits, most of the other stuff in the box was either 70’s stuff or mid 70’s reissues of 60’s tracks

[Dave Pinch]

2 hours ago, Ficklefingers said:

There is still a burning question tho, as highlighted by Woodbutcher, in that the print on your copy is miss-aligned whilst all the other copies pictured are all straight-lined print ??

Not making comment either way as to the legitimacy of your copy - but it does seem odd.. look also at the positioning of the text, particularly the right hand side.. doesn't correlate with the positioning on the other copies posted

next thing someone will come on here and say any copies with off centre labels are bootlegs too.. this record was a big seller and is pretty common despite its price tag

[Soul16]

Just now, Dave Pinch said:

next thing someone will come on here and say any copies with off centre labels are bootlegs too.. this record was a big seller and is pretty common despite its price tag

Agreed, it was very common in the mid 70's. I bought two: one for me and one for my then girlfriend. I also bought the green boot at the same time. All from the same sales box.

[Simon T]

On 04/11/2021 at 11:49, Simon T said:

I bought one in the UK around that time of a major very knowledgeable  dealer. No cut off bottom or raised numbers.

I was always weary of it being an original, but sold it to another major very knowledgeable  dealer who said it was an original. The blotching got progressively worse over time which i assumed a reaction in in the glue.

 

Just found some high res scans and both sides & do have the raised areas under both labels. I'm almost certain I got it of JM circa 1981 - 1983

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Simon T