Who was John Hillyard?

[jimmyjrg]

I've been working with a DJ Shadow fansite which is compiling interviews and articles with Shadow and his influences, and I've been researching John Hillyard.

It seems like there's a heap of people here like @Robbkwho met John and I was hoping to compile some information for an article, similar to this one I did on Ed Hartman's Record store in Sacramento.

So far I've been able to find a few mentions of John in some old California newspapers, and I'm aware of how he died. But I'm curious when he came from Canada, which record label(s) he worked for, and what his store was called?

If anyone is able to help, or point me in the right direction I'd really appreciate it.

Apologies, I know this is my first post here. But hopefully this is ok.

[Robbk]

6 hours ago, jimmyjrg said:

I've been working with a DJ Shadow fansite which is compiling interviews and articles with Shadow and his influences, and I've been researching John Hillyard.

It seems like there's a heap of people here like @Robbkwho met John and I was hoping to compile some information for an article, similar to this one I did on Ed Hartman's Record store in Sacramento.

So far I've been able to find a few mentions of John in some old California newspapers, and I'm aware of how he died. But I'm curious when he came from Canada, which record label(s) he worked for, and what his store was called?

If anyone is able to help, or point me in the right direction I'd really appreciate it.

Apologies, I know this is my first post here. But hopefully this is ok.

I'm sorry to tell you that Im can't answer any of those questions. I didn't know he had a store.  I used to go to his house in Hollywood, to look through his stock of records for sale (just as I did with John Anderson).  I don't remember him having a physical commercial "store".  And I thought the name of his mail order service was simply his name ("John Hillyard"). I knew him throughout the 1970s, and I believe he came to Los Angeles near the end of the 1960s or near the start of the 1970s.  I think he was from The Toronto Area, as he definitely didn't have a Western Canadian accent.  I haven't kept up with The record Collectors' scene in L.A. since about 1978, so I didn't know John had died.  You mentioned that you know of the circumstances, which makes it seem like he didn't pass on peacefully in his bed at home from natural causes,  unless he had some disease like cancer, which brought him an untimely early demise.  How did he die?

[Dmc]

Hillyard's final years were spent in Merced, California, where he had a "store" for a time. His first foray into the record biz was most likely at Imperial, but I do know for a fact he worked at Riva Records in the late 70s. There is a Riva-produced book from 1979 entitled Trend Setters which contains one of the few vintage Hillyard photos I've seen. According to the book, John was from Montreal.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Dmc
typo, info

[jimmyjrg]

7 hours ago, Robbk said:

I'm sorry to tell you that Im can't answer any of those questions. I didn't know he had a store.  I used to go to his house in Hollywood, to look through his stock of records for sale (just as I did with John Anderson).  I don't remember him having a physical commercial "store".  And I thought the name of his mail order service was simply his name ("John Hillyard"). I knew him throughout the 1970s, and I believe he came to Los Angeles near the end of the 1960s or near the start of the 1970s.  I think he was from The Toronto Area, as he definitely didn't have a Western Canadian accent.  I haven't kept up with The record Collectors' scene in L.A. since about 1978, so I didn't know John had died.  You mentioned that you know of the circumstances, which makes it seem like he didn't pass on peacefully in his bed at home from natural causes,  unless he had some disease like cancer, which brought him an untimely early demise.  How did he die?

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry you didn't know about his death. It sounds like he died of natural causes, but he was living rough at the time.

In September 2001 He was found dead in a shed he'd been renting to store his records. He was 58. 

From what I can piece together it sounds like he had been renting a shop in Merced, but when the rent got increased he put his best records in storage and began living with them.

[jimmyjrg]

40 minutes ago, Dmc said:

Hillyard's final years were spent in Merced, California, where he had a "store" for a time. His first foray into the record biz was most likely at Imperial, but I do know for a fact he worked at Riva Records in the late 70s. There is a Riva-produced book from 1979 entitled Trend Setters which contains one of the few vintage Hillyard photos I've seen. According to the book, John was from Montreal.

Thanks for that tip. I'm seeing if I can get a scan of Trendsetters book.

Here's a photo of DJ Shadow, John, and Lyrics Born circa 1993. From what I've read, it sounds like he had the dreadlocks since the 1980s at least.

[jimmyjrg]

This is a photo taken in John's store in Merced from 1993. Picture is of Stan Green who did early artwork for DJ Shadow's releases.

[The Yank]

I'm not sure this is the same John Hillyard, but there was someone working for Kim Fowley. This is from Billboard's 1970/ 71 International Buyer's directory - 

 

[jimmyjrg]

Thanks for that! Yes, he definitely worked with Kim Fowley. His 1968 album Born To Be Wild was dedicated to John, and John also makes an appearance on the album Good Clean Fun from 69. Notably the track Motorcycle.

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, jimmyjrg said:

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry you didn't know about his death. It sounds like he died of natural causes, but he was living rough at the time.

In September 2001 He was found dead in a shed he'd been renting to store his records. He was 58. 

From what I can piece together it sounds like he had been renting a shop in Merced, but when the rent got increased he put his best records in storage and began living with them.

Ha! Ha!  He was ALWAYS living in his record storage bin.  His house was filled to bursting with records.  Yes, he did also have a storage building, too for older, more common stock.  But, in his home, he always had his "hot" recent and new finds, that he advertised.  I wonder why he was in Merced?  His records would melt and warp in the summer and autumn heat.  He'd have to pay a fortune to air condition his "shed".  May Old John rest in peace.

[Robbk]

4 hours ago, The Yank said:

I'm not sure this is the same John Hillyard, but there was someone working for Kim Fowley. This is from Billboard's 1970/ 71 International Buyer's directory - 

 

Yes!  That's Old John, alright.  About 1969 or '70, or so, when I first met him, he told me he was working with Kim Fowley.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Robbk

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, jimmyjrg said:

Thanks for that tip. I'm seeing if I can get a scan of Trendsetters book.

Here's a photo of DJ Shadow, John, and Lyrics Born circa 1993. From what I've read, it sounds like he had the dreadlocks since the 1980s at least.

That's John alright!  Yes. He started having dreadlocks in the late 1970s.  And now, I remember that he told me he was from Montreal.  But, he had a weird accent.  Not a typical Quebecois or Eastern English Canadian accent.  If I remember correctly, his parents were originally from England.  I guess he moved to Merced for easier access to lower cost marijuana, and a lot lower commercial rental costs to run a store.  A commercial property of the same size in Hollywood would probably have cost 20+ times what it would have cost in Merced.  He looks like a Middle Easterner!  He must have been out a lot in that San Joaquin Valley sun!  His skin was a pasty white (like an albino, when he first moved to California from Montreal.

[jimmyjrg]

How did you all find out about him? Were there specific newspapers or magazines he might have advertised in?

It sounds like he had a lot of customers from the UK who knew about him.

Whenever I look up his name I find a Canadian politician, but I'm guessing there's no relation haha.

[Robbk]

15 minutes ago, jimmyjrg said:

How did you all find out about him? Were there specific newspapers or magazines he might have advertised in?

It sounds like he had a lot of customers from the UK who knew about him.

Whenever I look up his name I find a Canadian politician, but I'm guessing there's no relation haha.

I'd guess they are no relation, as Hillyard is a fairly common name in Canada, as it is in Britain.  But I wouldn't rule it out, altogether, as a lot of much stranger coincidences have happened. 

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, jimmyjrg said:

How did you all find out about him? Were there specific newspapers or magazines he might have advertised in?

It sounds like he had a lot of customers from the UK who knew about him.

Whenever I look up his name I find a Canadian politician, but I'm guessing there's no relation haha.

 

1 hour ago, jimmyjrg said:

How did you all find out about him? Were there specific newspapers or magazines he might have advertised in?

It sounds like he had a lot of customers from the UK who knew about him.

Whenever I look up his name I find a Canadian politician, but I'm guessing there's no relation haha.

I had no idea who he was until this thread, what a character !!!!

John Hilliard aka "Motorcycle John", seems he slept with records (my type of guy)

This may or may not help (seems to have some stuff not mentioned here)

http://www.g45central.com/forum/index.php?threads/merced-memories.1641/

Edited October 22, 2021 by Blackpoolsoul

[jimmyjrg]

@Blackpoolsoul Thanks, that link was actually how I found this forum initially

[Cover-up]

Good thread that, sadly I can't add to. But might be worth giving John Manship a phone, he's bound to have encountered him. Or try sending Keb Darge a message on Facebook? Look forward to seeing your finished feature...

[jimmyjrg]

10 hours ago, cover-up said:

Good thread that, sadly I can't add to. But might be worth giving John Manship a phone, he's bound to have encountered him. Or try sending Keb Darge a message on Facebook? Look forward to seeing your finished feature...

Thanks for that. I'll see if I can get in touch with both of them.

[jimmyjrg]

Just a quick bump. I wonder if some of the other people who have met John might be able to chime in? It looks like some of you aren't active currently so apologies for the @ 's 

@Rob Wigley, @Dave Thorley, @Mikevague, @foolish fool , @Arthur Fenn, @Platters 81, @Blake H, @neckender, @JOE TORQUAY

I'd really like to understand how everyone found out about him? If anyone remembers a specific newspaper or magazines he might have advertised in, I'd love to find some of his old ads.

I'm also interested to hear any other recollections about him, to get an idea of what type of person he was. It seems like he was pretty fair on prices, but became quite eccentric in the 90s. Any other anecdotes or thoughts would be great to gather.

Thanks everyone for your help so far.

[The Yank]

I found this in the June 1983 (#83) and June 1984 (#101) issues of Goldmine-

 

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by The Yank

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

I found this in the June 1983 issue of Goldmine - 

 

That's the address of where his house was when I visited him from 1969-78 or so.

[Blake H]

I visited John several times, mostly in the 80s. First time was at Rosewood ave, I’d rung several time before making contact and he reluctantly agreed to let me come over. I was a little taken aback by his appearance and the state of his house but just got on digging, John had a large woolen blanket round him despite the sweltering heat, he got up several times to make coffee but never offered me a cup.

I remember him saying I wasn’t as fast as John Anderson (who was!) I did find a few things but nothing earth shattering and was preparing to settle up when he said “look at those piles on the mantle piece, they are stuff for Europe but payment has been longer than a month” needless  to say these piles were great and I bought a lot from them, 21st Century, Minnie Jones, George Smith etc etc, I bet a few collectors were pissed off getting their payments refunded! 
On that visit he showed me the stampers for (I think) What’s going on, it was definitely a Marvin Gaye album and several other bits of Motown memorabilia, and I seem to remember he had worked with Phil Spector and the Motorcycle Johnny came from him doing the sound effects on some record (don’t think it was Leader of the pack but similar).
I next met him at the Pasadena swop meet but he was just packing up as he’d sold most of his stuff, he told me he was going to look at some records belonging to one of the Entertainers 4 and I was welcome to tag along, he said it’s about 40 miles away but he has lots of vinyl. The problem was I’d left my wife sunbathing at the hotel (prior to cell phones) so declined the offer. I often wonder how that would have panned out!

 I visited him a couple of times in Merced and whilst he had lots of stock it was well picked over and found very little, he did have thousands of Buddah 45s I remember but the black text on the purple background made them difficult to read in poor light so gave up after a few dozen but should have stuck with it. 
I believe he was involved with Native American issues and had a long platted pigtail at this time and also the bridge of his glasses was sellotaped to hold them together!

John had a rather distinctive  high pitched voice and whenever I talk with other people who met him we seem to always say “good soul rekid “ in his distinctive style, a phrase he would use a lot. 

Both Ian Clarke and Gavin Page have great stories about John, he certainly was one of a kind. RIP

 

BH

[jimmyjrg]

On 28/10/2021 at 10:22, The Yank said:

I found this in the June 1983 (#83) and June 1984 (#101) issues of Goldmine- 

 

 

Thanks for those photos! Do you mind if I use them in the article?

Also thanks Blake for the extra info too. I'll have to look through the credits of some Phil Spector releases and see if he's credited anywhere. 

I found a rental ad for the 4457 Rosewood Ave property, with the same phone number. It's from Dec 1970 and was $135 a month and is described as a two bedroom place. I'm guessing he moved in around then.

[The Yank]

12 hours ago, jimmyjrg said:

Thanks for those photos! Do you mind if I use them in the article?

 

Of course you can- feel free to use them.

[jimmyjrg]

Thank you.

If you find any more I'd love to see them too. It's crazy how cheap his records were compared to now.

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by jimmyjrg

[The Yank]

 I found another one. This is from Goldmine #88 ( Sept. 1983) . A reasonable price on the Luckey Davis !

Edited November 1, 2021 by The Yank

[neckender]

On 21/10/2021 at 10:38, jimmyjrg said:

I've been working with a DJ Shadow fansite which is compiling interviews and articles with Shadow and his influences, and I've been researching John Hillyard.

It seems like there's a heap of people here like @Robbkwho met John and I was hoping to compile some information for an article, similar to this one I did on Ed Hartman's Record store in Sacramento.

So far I've been able to find a few mentions of John in some old California newspapers, and I'm aware of how he died. But I'm curious when he came from Canada, which record label(s) he worked for, and what his store was called?

If anyone is able to help, or point me in the right direction I'd really appreciate it.

Apologies, I know this is my first post here. But hopefully this is ok.

The article that you mention about Ed Hartman's record store in Sacramento.  Would that be the record store: !Records! 806 K Street, Sacramento ?   If so, i took John Hillyard to that shop in the mid 80s.

[jimmyjrg]

On 07/11/2021 at 23:56, neckender said:

The article that you mention about Ed Hartman's record store in Sacramento.  Would that be the record store: !Records! 806 K Street, Sacramento ?   If so, i took John Hillyard to that shop in the mid 80s.

Yes that's the one. Wow, that's a great coincidence. I'll be sure to mention it in the article about John. 

[neckender]

16 hours ago, jimmyjrg said:

Yes that's the one. Wow, that's a great coincidence. I'll be sure to mention it in the article about John. 

Myself and John Hillyard were driving to Sacramento for an appointment that I had made with Richard Bass, who I had been buying records from for many years previously. Richard ran a record shop in Oakland during the 70s and had tons of Soul 45s, especially West coast releases. He had agreed to let me look through his stock, but when he saw that John was with me, he did a reverse ferret and said that we couldn't look. He had never met John and he told me that he didn't trust him!  John wasn't the best presented person that I knew, but he had a heart of gold.  I tried to reason with him, explaining that he was an extremely honest person and that John had a great reputation down in L.A. It came to nothing, so dissapointed, we left and drove over to a record shop in K street, Sacramento. I had this shop in my personal contacts book and I thought it would be worth checking out.

We walked into the shop !Records! as it was called and started to look in the 45 racks.  In no time i had found all the Lorraine Chandlers-RCA and a few of the other Northern RCAs, Some Dore releases,  Jesse James-Shirley, Strange Change-Argo, Celest Hardie-Reynolds, James Wesley Smith-Angel Town etc. There was even a Renfro section in those racks (Carl Hendersons, Sam cox, Helen Moore & John Westleys)  It became evident that no other British Northern buyers had been in there. As I was moving through the racks the owner of the shop said those magical words: 'are you guys looking for promos'  After replying in the positive he directed us to load of boxes behind a curtain. After an afternoons work looking through the boxes I had pulled about 400 soul records. John had also a large box of 45s that he bought.  During a 3 week, full on record buying trip to the States, this was one of those satisfying days.

Here is a typical letter from John. He begins with some political stuff and then a list of soul 45s that he's recently found.

[jimmyjrg]

That was great to read, thank you for sharing everything. 

I wonder what John would have made of the basement at Records? There was meant to be a lot of interesting stuff in there that DJ Shadow eventually mined when he was putting together his first album.

[Ion T]

Hi, I dealt with John in the 80s and he always had good records. I was introduced to him by Barrie Waddington who had a lot of dealings with him. Barrie went Stateside and I think met him in the 70s/80. Barrie and Steve (Brad) Bradley both knew him around that period and would be worth contacting, it would be nice to see him get some recognition. All best. Ion

[jimmyjrg]

Thanks Ion. I'll check them out. We've had a great response from everyone contacted so far and hopefully we'll get the article up in the new year.

At the moment we're still chasing some leads about John's early life as it's a bit unclear what he was doing before he sold records in California. But hopefully we'll find out more soon. 

[Godzzla]

Thanks for starting this thread,

So cool to find information about John Hillyard!  I spent many days in the shared brick building of his used record store in downtown Merced, Ca., where I first met John Hillyard in the early 1990s.  I discovered his shop about 1991 in Merced, and remember he shared this giant red brick building visible from highway 99 on W. 16th with two other vendors, and neither were too happy at him the day I went in as John had recently caused a fire in the building he shared, burning candles or incense that I overheard the day I visited.  The fire caused smoke damage to many of his and the others records in the building.  Much of my collection came from John. 

A lot was some real rare stuff, "The Champs" LP for example with the motorcycle front cover, and I was blown away by what he had! 

I visited his shop about twenty times in the early 90s and remember he moved to the last shop I visited on Main St. in downtown Merced, this a much smaller building than the brick building.  I remember talking to him many times about his early music work, and he didn't like to brag, but he was proud of all the bands he had worked with thru the years.  He didn't like taking checks from me as he sadly wanted to go get a few beers from the liquor store across the street as soon as he got some cash.  I had hoped he was still around but knew better.  I was happy to see a picture of him somebody posted, and to find out what finally happened to him. 

thanks,

Steve Russell

Fresno, Ca.

[jimmyjrg]

On 21/12/2021 at 12:20, Godzzla said:

I remember talking to him many times about his early music work, and he didn't like to brag, but he was proud of all the bands he had worked with thru the years.

Thanks for sharing Steve. Do you remember any particular bands he worked with? I've read he worked for Imperial Records, where he met Kim Fowley and then they recorded together. But I haven't found anything else concrete.

It sounds like the store you visited was Steve’s Coins. The other two guys were probably Steve Crissoni and Joe Mendez.

[jimmyjrg]

Sorry for the delay. I'm still working on the article, and hopefully it'll be done soon. I've managed to identify John's parents and some relatives, but unfortunately no one alive who knew him before he left Canada.

I recently found a news clipping from 1993 with John and someone called Andrew J Ornelas. They opened a record store together at 655 W. Main Street, Merced called Hillyard & Ornelas Records. I'm trying to track down Andrew, and was wondering if anyone here knew him? It's the first time I've heard him mentioned. They're pictured together in the attached image from 1993.

[neckender]

Yes, i met Andrew at their shop in Main street, Merced. I gave John a lift up to Merced and while there i looked at some of the stock in the shop. The next day I left John there and went over to san francisco. I dont know how the shop worked between them because john lived in LA. and he didnt drive.

 

[jimmyjrg]

Thanks for the info! I was told John moved to Merced in 1989, but maybe they meant he moved his records/store because he started working at Steve's Coins around then. That's crazy if he was still living in LA!

[jimmyjrg]

Hi everyone. Thank you for your patience, we have now published the article about John Hillyard: https://www.djshadowreconstructed.com/post/remembering-john-hillyard

Thank you to everyone in this thread and others who shared their stories about John. Unfortunately, there were a few people we still hadn't been able to speak with, but it's been a few years now and the time seemed right to just publish it.

Thanks again, and happy new year.

[Robbk]

Thanks for posting that great article about John.  It brings back a lot of memories.   A lot of people were curious about him.  And now they know more.  So his father was a Newfy!  That checks out with him telling me his parents were British, as Newfoundland didn't become part of Canada until 1949.  I had thought John lived mostly on his record sales and only had a few forays into the recording industry.  I never realised John did so much work for record companies (especially in publicity).  We shared something in common other than record collecting.  I worked as an economics consultant for 1st Nation tribes in Canada, and Native American tribes in USA for about 10 years.  And I got involved a bit in their politics, attending some pow wows and other meetings.  We knew some of the same people.  It's a very small World!  Too bad he died so young.  But, unlike a lot of people in "The Western Rat Race", John lived his life the way he wanted.  And that's to his credit.

[Peter99]

Hi Jimmy

Welcome to SS

I've just been flicking through this thread. What a fantastic first post on SS - it has generated some amazing information and responses - with photographs too! This is what SS is all about (imo), I'll bookmark this for a proper read. Thanks for posting and sharing.

All the best.

Peter

Edit - Apologies Jimmy for the late welcome, I've just seen your first post was back in 2021. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Peter99
error

[jimmyjrg]

Thank you both. Since publishing we've had a few more people reach out, so I'm sure there will be an expanded version or follow up article in the future.

Peter, I agree. The threads on SS with images and everyone sharing information are fascinating to read. It's a great community here.

[Robbk]

On 27/10/2021 at 14:01, jimmyjrg said:

Just a quick bump. I wonder if some of the other people who have met John might be able to chime in? It looks like some of you aren't active currently so apologies for the @ 's 

@Rob Wigley, @Dave Thorley, @Mikevague, @foolish fool , @Arthur Fenn, @Platters 81, @Blake H, @neckender, @JOE TORQUAY

I'd really like to understand how everyone found out about him? If anyone remembers a specific newspaper or magazines he might have advertised in, I'd love to find some of his old ads.

I'm also interested to hear any other recollections about him, to get an idea of what type of person he was. It seems like he was pretty fair on prices, but became quite eccentric in the 90s. Any other anecdotes or thoughts would be great to gather.

Thanks everyone for your help so far.

I only ever saw an advert of his in "Goldmine" (as shown above).  But that was a few years after I met him.  I met him at a used record store in Hollywood ("Music Man Murray's").

[Robbk]

On 29/12/2023 at 04:10, Peter99 said:

Hi Jimmy

Welcome to SS

I've just been flicking through this thread. What a fantastic first post on SS - it has generated some amazing information and responses - with photographs too! This is what SS is all about (imo), I'll bookmark this for a proper read. Thanks for posting and sharing.

All the best.

Peter

Edit - Apologies Jimmy for the late welcome, I've just seen your first post was back in 2021. 

Hi Peter,

I've sent you a PM.  (Not a Prime Minister!)

[Peter99]

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

I only ever saw an advert of his in "Goldmine" (as shown above).  But that was a few years after I met him.  I met him at a used record store in Hollywood ("Music Man Murray's").

Hi Robb

Butch (MD)  aka Neckender, posted the other day. 

[Candiman]

Thanks for pulling this together jimmyjrg, and to everyone one here for chipping in. A great read. 

[Arthur Fenn]

Firstly i must apologies to the Author for not submitting my recollections of John, not sure what happened but i'm sorry about that.

I met John in 83/4 & had hundreds of 45's off him. He was indeed the most unique dealer/collector i ever met and as reported in the article John was a total gentleman & had the most extensive  knowledge. 

The way it worked with me ( & many others i guess ) was that we drove him around town & treated him to lunch & he would share his "special places" . My strongest memory was sitting in a diner & John proudly showing me a huge Red chili & with that broad smile of his saying " this is the godam hottest thing you can eat". 

I believe most of the meagre profits he made went to the Indian trust.

Just a brilliant guy! 

 

Arthur.