Tolbert I Got It Rojac

[Souljazera]

seems like this one has turned up in quantity ...

any thoughts as to a price guide...hope its not another frederick hymes or kings of soul!!!!!!!!!!

[Russ Vickers]

seems like this one has turned up in quantity ...

any thoughts as to a price guide...hope its not another frederick hymes or kings of soul!!!!!!!!!!

uhhh...............pse tell us more ???.

Russ

[Bjorn Nilsson]

seems like this one has turned up in quantity ...

any thoughts as to a price guide...hope its not another frederick hymes or kings of soul!!!!!!!!!!

I think it's just that people are being aware of it's value since they seem to come from different sources and both issues & demos.

[Jaco]

A big £2k per JM's latest, if only for the time being

[Sebastian]

Would be great if a couple of hundred copies turned up of this one.

[Guest wrighty]

seems like this one has turned up in quantity ...

any thoughts as to a price guide...hope its not another frederick hymes or kings of soul!!!!!!!!!!

ok well i won the M- copy that finished last night, i have to confess i hadn't seen the other copy so my first reaction was 'oh bollocks'...but after calming down i emailed the seller who seemed a decent bloke to see if he'd heard of any recent 'finds' and this is what he said:-

Hi Ian:

I was amazed to see this guy list a copy(in lesser condition than the one

you won) at the same time as mine; I feel it affected the bidding but that's

life; I assume it's a bizarre coincidence. I would be surprised if he was

aware of my cleaner copy listed and would then list a lesser one...I

definately have heard of no quantity.

The copy I sold was from a retired Memphis DJ who was moving out of town and

believe me I checked the stuff carefully but he had no duplicates at all. I

think Tolbert was from Memphis. I have heard of no other copies locally and

have never seen another actually.

I read a blog blurb stating that 6-7 copies of this exist circa 2005. If

accurate I think that's still a top rarity.

Thanks,

Paul

he also said (in the email header) that by 'stock' copy the other seller meant 'non-dj' copy

[Gasher]

The last copy on ebay went $4800

I BOUGHT IT so thats 600 quid more than you paid Wrighty..dont worry

The seller thought his mate had another but he was unable to find it.FUNNY THAT EH?

Its now on ebay so he obviously found it eventually

but its still rare..thats 3 copies in as many months but doesnt mean its found in quantity.

when I see them like Clara Hardy..then I will start to worry.

Look at the Montclairs a box found now all gone...

and as far as we know they are all stock copies

no demos found so far ones with rubber stamps are just issues

worth every penny

[Guest woolie mark]

...hope its not another frederick hymes or kings of soul!!!!!!!!!!

wot's that about the kings of soul then?

i heard a couple of fellas (who might not want naming on here) got hold of about 6 between them and it's pretty obvious where they went

are there more then?

what's the current value on this - my thinking is about £800, am i far out on that?

if a load have turned up and the price has dropped i'd like to know please

[Guest lotusland]

ok well i won the M- copy that finished last night, i have to confess i hadn't seen the other copy so my first reaction was 'oh bollocks'...but after calming down i emailed the seller who seemed a decent bloke to see if he'd heard of any recent 'finds' and this is what he said:-

Could someone do a clip of this track, please? Assuming its at least a little funky if Ian's went after it..

Thanks in advance

Andy

[Simon M]

Could someone do a clip of this track, please? Assuming its at least a little funky if Ian's went after it..

Thanks in advance

Andy

Would not call this funky really Andy , more midtempo early 80's soul .

[Guest Paul]

seems like this one has turned up in quantity ...

I'm amazed when people are surprised (or annoyed?) when a "rare" record turns up in quantity, suddenly making it not quite as rare or as valuable as they thought (or hoped?) it was.

Those who say "there are only five copies" (or whatever) must realise they can only be wrong. After paying for recording, mixing, mastering, processing and printing, who would ever press just five copies??? (unless it was just a test pressing).

In many cases it's likely there are more copies out there somewhere - from used copies in collections to boxes of unplayed copies in basements.

For obvious reasons, some dealers and collectors prefer to believe myths such as "only seven copies were pressed" or "all other copies were destroyed in a fire" or whatever.

There are cases where dealers claim to have just two or three copies yet they sometimes have boxes full of them. And I know of particular cases where there are actually less copies of a "common" reissue than there are of the "rare" original.

To be fair to dealers, many of their customers are only interested in what they perceive to be "rare" records, so of course the dealers say "it's very rare, I only have a few copies".

Some records are genuinely very rare, no doubt, but many others aren't as rare as people think. "Hard-to-find" or "in-demand" are more accurate descriptions in many cases.

The truth is that many records are actually priced because of their tempo. A hard-to-find ballad might sell for £30 but it suddenly becomes £500 if people can dance to it.

Sadly, many soul fans, DJs and collectors are obsessed with exclusivity and rarity. And the result is that we now have "experts" on the soul scene who are unable to have a conversation about Al Green, The Soul Children, Bobby Womack, Annette Snell, Don Covay, Aretha Franklin, James Carr, The O'Jays, Howard Tate, Carla Thomas etc etc.

It's very sad that the music itself just isn't enough to keep them fascinated.

Paul Mooney

[Simon M]

Very true Paul, but this is a Rare soul forum.... I for one visit other forums to discuss the merits of Womack , Sea , Taylor , Whispers , Wade Brown etc .. There's still plenty of contemporary soul fans out there . all is not lost

ATB

Simon

[Guest Paul]

Very true Paul, but this is a Rare soul forum.... I for one visit other forums to discuss the merits of Womack , Sea , Taylor , Whispers , Wade Brown etc .. There's still plenty of contemporary soul fans out there . all is not lost

ATB

Simon

I understand, Simon, but I didn't use the word contemporary. My whole point is that some people are obsessed with rare sixties soul (for example) but they don't show any interest in sixties soul which isn't rare.

The actual music doesn't seem to be so important.

Paul Mooney

[Simon M]

I understand, Simon, but I didn't use the word contemporary. My whole point is that some people are obsessed with rare sixties soul (for example) but they don't show any interest in sixties soul which isn't rare.

The actual music doesn't seem to be so important.

Paul Mooney

Yes you're right Paul, that's a strange phenomenon .

[Sunnysoul]

The last copy on ebay went $4800

I BOUGHT IT so thats 600 quid more than you paid Wrighty..dont worry

The seller thought his mate had another but he was unable to find it.FUNNY THAT EH?

Its now on ebay so he obviously found it eventually

but its still rare..thats 3 copies in as many months but doesnt mean its found in quantity.

when I see them like Clara Hardy..then I will start to worry.

Look at the Montclairs a box found now all gone...

and as far as we know they are all stock copies

no demos found so far ones with rubber stamps are just issues

worth every penny

Gasher, if it turns up in quantity , why will you "start to worry" ?

I'm just curious as to the reason for buying the record in the first place , for the music , or because it's rare and then to sell on later ?

[Simon M]

I think it's something to do with the new style of "Hot-box Deejaying " someone described it on here once

Edited February 7, 2007 by Simon M

[Bjorn Nilsson]

My whole point is that some people are obsessed with rare sixties soul (for example) but they don't show any interest in sixties soul which isn't rare.

The actual music doesn't seem to be so important.

Paul Mooney

Which I think is the point in this case. If the Tolbert was 1000+ copies no one would care. It's a good song but not +£2000 good (my opinion).

But that is also the point of northern/rare soul!

I love sertain songs more just because they are extremely rare and I think that that is the case with everyone here even if they don't confess to it!

But it's a big difference to love a song just because it's rare!

Edited February 7, 2007 by Bjorn78

[Steve G]

Sadly, many soul fans, DJs and collectors are obsessed with exclusivity and rarity. And the result is that we now have "experts" on the soul scene who are unable to have a conversation about Al Green, The Soul Children, Bobby Womack, Annette Snell, Don Covay, Aretha Franklin, James Carr, The O'Jays, Howard Tate, Carla Thomas etc etc.

It's very sad that the music itself just isn't enough to keep them fascinated.

Paul Mooney

But Paul that's not a new phenomenon. It's always been that way with the scene over here, certainly since the early 80's.

Steve.

[Guest wrighty]

Gasher, if it turns up in quantity , why will you "start to worry" ?

I'm just curious as to the reason for buying the record in the first place , for the music , or because it's rare and then to sell on later ?

i personally was never worried (curious maybe), just a natural reaction to seeing another copy of a record i'd just paid a lot of money for go up on ebay, shit happens...i originally bought a copy of tolbert from manships auction, traded it to a well known northern dj for some rare 'funkier' northern that i wasnt going to find elsewhere but as is so often the case i agonised about getting rid of the tolbert and wanted it back so...i happen to love the record and no, it wont get a huge amount of plays either when i dj as i don't subscribe to the 'hot-box' theory

[Baz Atkinson]

I'm amazed when people are surprised (or annoyed?) when a "rare" record turns up in quantity, suddenly making it not quite as rare or as valuable as they thought (or hoped?) it was.

Those who say "there are only five copies" (or whatever) must realise they can only be wrong. After paying for recording, mixing, mastering, processing and printing, who would ever press just five copies??? (unless it was just a test pressing).

In many cases it's likely there are more copies out there somewhere - from used copies in collections to boxes of unplayed copies in basements.

For obvious reasons, some dealers and collectors prefer to believe myths such as "only seven copies were pressed" or "all other copies were destroyed in a fire" or whatever.

There are cases where dealers claim to have just two or three copies yet they sometimes have boxes full of them. And I know of particular cases where there are actually less copies of a "common" reissue than there are of the "rare" original.

To be fair to dealers, many of their customers are only interested in what they perceive to be "rare" records, so of course the dealers say "it's very rare, I only have a few copies".

Some records are genuinely very rare, no doubt, but many others aren't as rare as people think. "Hard-to-find" or "in-demand" are more accurate descriptions in many cases.

The truth is that many records are actually priced because of their tempo. A hard-to-find ballad might sell for £30 but it suddenly becomes £500 if people can dance to it.

Sadly, many soul fans, DJs and collectors are obsessed with exclusivity and rarity. And the result is that we now have "experts" on the soul scene who are unable to have a conversation about Al Green, The Soul Children, Bobby Womack, Annette Snell, Don Covay, Aretha Franklin, James Carr, The O'Jays, Howard Tate, Carla Thomas etc etc.

It's very sad that the music itself just isn't enough to keep them fascinated.

Paul Mooney

WELL SAID

BAZ A.

[Simon M]

But Paul that's not a new phenomenon. It's always been that way with the scene over here, certainly since the early 80's.

Steve.

Its not new, but its certainly a pathogen, that has spread. Hmm I wonder why ?

[Corbett80]

"Sadly, many soul fans, DJs and collectors are obsessed with exclusivity and rarity. And the result is that we now have "experts" on the soul scene who are unable to have a conversation about Al Green, The Soul Children, Bobby Womack, Annette Snell, Don Covay, Aretha Franklin, James Carr, The O'Jays, Howard Tate, Carla Thomas etc etc."

I would have to agree with this. Its strange that I know the little that I do about completely obscure soul recordings/artists due to gleaning info from the more knowledgable on the scene, but not even that much about the more popular, prolific artists. At least it means there is so much out there yet to hear and enjoy. Hopefully a positive thing, as for me the action is the actual music itself, all the ohter stuff is a fascinating (but I have to say very enjoyable) trimming.

[Souljazera]

I'm amazed when people are surprised (or annoyed?) when a "rare" record turns up in quantity, suddenly making it not quite as rare or as valuable as they thought (or hoped?) it was.

Those who say "there are only five copies" (or whatever) must realise they can only be wrong. After paying for recording, mixing, mastering, processing and printing, who would ever press just five copies??? (unless it was just a test pressing).

In many cases it's likely there are more copies out there somewhere - from used copies in collections to boxes of unplayed copies in basements.

For obvious reasons, some dealers and collectors prefer to believe myths such as "only seven copies were pressed" or "all other copies were destroyed in a fire" or whatever.

There are cases where dealers claim to have just two or three copies yet they sometimes have boxes full of them. And I know of particular cases where there are actually less copies of a "common" reissue than there are of the "rare" original.

To be fair to dealers, many of their customers are only interested in what they perceive to be "rare" records, so of course the dealers say "it's very rare, I only have a few copies".

Some records are genuinely very rare, no doubt, but many others aren't as rare as people think. "Hard-to-find" or "in-demand" are more accurate descriptions in many cases.

The truth is that many records are actually priced because of their tempo. A hard-to-find ballad might sell for £30 but it suddenly becomes £500 if people can dance to it.

Sadly, many soul fans, DJs and collectors are obsessed with exclusivity and rarity. And the result is that we now have "experts" on the soul scene who are unable to have a conversation about Al Green, The Soul Children, Bobby Womack, Annette Snell, Don Covay, Aretha Franklin, James Carr, The O'Jays, Howard Tate, Carla Thomas etc etc.

It's very sad that the music itself just isn't enough to keep them fascinated.

Paul Mooney

[Souljazera]

couldnt agree more with you paul...a good record is a good record regardless of price....its a shame the trophy aspect of collecting has become our ultimate obsession...

[Jaco]

"A man with an obsession is a man who has very little sales resistance" - C S Lewis

[Gasher]

Gasher, if it turns up in quantity , why will you "start to worry" ?

I'm just curious as to the reason for buying the record in the first place , for the music , or because it's rare and then to sell on later ?

I,ll worry because nobody likes to pay top dollar for a rarity then

see it a month late at half the price..Ive been after this for 10 years.................. for the music

There no way it will be moving on anywhwere

[Ady Potts]

seems like this one has turned up in quantity ...

any thoughts as to a price guide...hope its not another frederick hymes or kings of soul!!!!!!!!!!

Kings of Soul? That's news to me. Or is this a case of the good old Chinese whispers about the 6 copies that turned up more than a year ago developing into a shed load?

pottsy.

[Shsdave]

Gasher, if it turns up in quantity , why will you "start to worry" ?

I'm just curious as to the reason for buying the record in the first place , for the music , or because it's rare and then to sell on later ?

[Ted Massey]

Kings of Soul? That's news to me. Or is this a case of the good old Chinese whispers about the 6 copies that turned up more than a year ago developing into a shed load?

pottsy.

Think Chris Anderton had 12+ copies , one of the most overated records i have ever heard IMO

[Guest stromberg]

I think it's something to do with the new style of "Hot-box Deejaying " someone described it on here once

what is hot box deejaying

[Gasher]

Nice one Dave I like you

so FCUK off the rest of you sycofants..

Can't understand why people seem to be having a go at Gasher.

I didn't read anywhere in his post that he said if the record was no longer rare he wouldn't like it.

Edited February 7, 2007 by the gasher

[Simon M]

what is hot box deejaying

I think wrighty may have some info ..

[Guest wrighty]

I think wrighty may have some info ..

actually simon it was our dear friend mr trouble that coined the phrase, i couldnt begin to explain myself

i'm sure he'll be on in the morning to reveal all...

[Simon M]

actually simon it was our dear friend mr trouble that coined the phrase, i couldnt begin to explain myself

i'm sure he'll be on in the morning to reveal all...

Ahh ok , Ian cheers .... must be one of the mags he reads on the train LOL

[Guest mel brat]

It's very sad that the music itself just isn't enough to keep them fascinated...

Paul Mooney

Edited February 7, 2007 by mel brat

[Steve G]

It's very sad that the music itself just isn't enough to keep them fascinated...

Paul Mooney

I have to agree. I've quoted before the young newly "converted" Northern soul fan who said to me in the Seventies;

"I don't think I really LIKE Soul... I just like the noise...!"

(I have never forgotten that!)

I think it's a shame when people get into the "rare" soul scene BEFORE they've encountered a more diverse range of Soul, simply because the emotional journey is so magical! Who among us can forget that initial dawning when the wonders of Soul music first slowly crept up on us...?

Yup I got into soul first, then "graduated" to rare soul several years later. I get very frustrated when I encounter blank expressions at the mention of Swann, Staton, Womack, Dells, NYC, Temps, JB, Spinners etc. These were the acts that got many of us into soul, and also the acts that inspired many of the rare soul numbers who were - to be blunt about it - trying to emulate their sound.

[Souljazera]

"A man with an obsession is a man who has very little sales resistance" - C S Lewis

i do believe thats a paraphrase from a marxist text......like it though very much..

Edited February 7, 2007 by souljazera

[Guest]

ok well i won the M- copy that finished last night, i have to confess i hadn't seen the other copy so my first reaction was 'oh bollocks'...but after calming down i emailed the seller who seemed a decent bloke to see if he'd heard of any recent 'finds' and this is what he said:-

Hi Ian:

I was amazed to see this guy list a copy(in lesser condition than the one

you won) at the same time as mine; I feel it affected the bidding but that's

life; I assume it's a bizarre coincidence. I would be surprised if he was

aware of my cleaner copy listed and would then list a lesser one...I

definately have heard of no quantity.

The copy I sold was from a retired Memphis DJ who was moving out of town and

believe me I checked the stuff carefully but he had no duplicates at all. I

think Tolbert was from Memphis. I have heard of no other copies locally and

have never seen another actually.

I read a blog blurb stating that 6-7 copies of this exist circa 2005. If

accurate I think that's still a top rarity.

Thanks,

Paul

he also said (in the email header) that by 'stock' copy the other seller meant 'non-dj' copy

amazing

cheers

Edited February 14, 2007 by Califasoul