Manship’s copy of Cecil Washington on Prophonics

[Frankie Crocker]

£5,017 finishing price. Roundabout £5,000 at 6.00 p.m. then ran on. John should be very pleased with this world record price for a Cecil Washington.

[David Moore]

On 19/10/2021 at 11:00, David Moore said:

With a day to go someone has already bid £4,500 for it , I think it will go for over £5,000 , possibly over six grand

Turned out I was right it has gone for over £5,000 just

[Frankie Crocker]

Well, what a night it’s been. The final sales price was not as hyped up as some predicted. Many thanks to all contributors to the thread - your thoughts certainly made for a more interesting auction.

Big, big thanks to Andy Rix for his contribution. When people look back over this thread in years to come, they will be amazed to see the lengths some collectors went to, and the important information unearthed along the way.

And to my particular interest in Cecil Washington... Yes, I have a copy so I wanted to see the Manship value rise. I also have a spare copy in my trades box, but I think I’ll sit on it a bit longer until the right record comes up for sale. Please, no offers or PM’s on this as I don’t want to lock the thread. Like a lot of us on Soul Source, I’m in it for the records and the music, the money’s just incidental.

[Linda4me]

12 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Well, what a night it’s been. The final sales price was not as hyped up as some predicted. Many thanks to all contributors to the thread - your thoughts certainly made for a more interesting auction.

Big, big thanks to Andy Rix for his contribution. When people look back over this thread in years to come, they will be amazed to see the lengths some collectors went to, and the important information unearthed along the way.

And to my particular interest in Cecil Washington... Yes, I have a copy so I wanted to see the Manship value rise. I also have a spare copy in my trades box, but I think I’ll sit on it a bit longer until the right record comes up for sale. Please, no offers or PM’s on this as I don’t want to lock the thread. Like a lot of us on Soul Source, I’m in it for the records and the music, the money’s just incidental.

Well i was way off the mark with 8.5k,but it's heading that way 

[Otis Smith]

On 10/10/2021 at 02:52, washlively said:

Mega tune and an overiding memory of late 70's Wigan. You had a job finding space on the dance floor when Richard dropped this on by Joe Mathews as it was then. No idea what it will go for but worth every last drop for a proper one.

There are rarer records not as good for me and cheapies probably as good but this thing has class, provinance and its laid down in stone as an absolute seminal classic.

 

When richard 1st played this at wigan casino, 5 people stayed on the dancefloor, myself included. Richard thanked us after the record had finished. The rest is history

[Blackpoolsoul]

17 minutes ago, Otis Smith said:

When richard 1st played this at wigan casino, 5 people stayed on the dancefloor, myself included. Richard thanked us after the record had finished. The rest is history

Did you not mean 500 people, as I got the impression from John's write up that it was a huge success ? If it was 5 as you say then thats now £1000 per dancer

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Blackpoolsoul

[Ted Massey]

23 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Did you not mean 500 people, as I got the impression from John's write up that it was a huge success ? If it was 5 as you say then thats now £1000 per dancer

 

Even now it has a very mixed response at oldies nights tbh and i can remember playing it at the Black Horse Wolverhampton 1994/5 a proper oldies night a full room and it was like tumbleweed on the floor 

[Winsford Soul]

19 hours ago, David Moore said:

Turned out I was right it has gone for over £5,000 just

I said 5k so I wasn't a million miles away. These not so  rare records are so predictable in their prices

[Chalky]

18 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

I said 5k so I wasn't a million miles away. These not so  rare records are so predictable in their prices

Cecil far from rare, certainly not as rare as some make it out to be.  Most dealers have had copies with some having multiple.  £5k far too much IMO. 

[Geoffp]

1 hour ago, Ted Massey said:

Even now it has a very mixed response at oldies nights tbh and i can remember playing it at the Black Horse Wolverhampton 1994/5 a proper oldies night a full room and it was like tumbleweed on the floor 

True enough that Mr Massey.  I remember Ian Wills playing it at a St Helens night a few years ago.  2 of us danced. At the end he let everything go quiet and announced ‘ You lot should fkn get out more’.   Priceless

[Otis Smith]

3 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Did you not mean 500 people, as I got the impression from John's write up that it was a huge success ? If it was 5 as you say then thats now £1000 per dancer

 

No definately 5, the dancers for new records was at the stage. The rest of the floor was empty.

[Mark W]

In one of the early Shades of Soul Martin Koppel wrote an article in which he mentioned seeing a box in a Detroit dealers place with 500 or 1000 copies, can’t remember exactly. He goes on in the article to say next time he visited the dealer claimed to have sold them all individually to the UK. Be interesting to read that article again, anyone got a scan?

Cecil an iconic record and the definition of NS too I would say…all time top 2,  but certainly not that rare

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Mark W

[Frankie Crocker]

1 minute ago, Mark W said:

In one of the early Shades of Soul Martin Koppel wrote an article in which he mentioned seeing a box in a Detroit dealers place with 500 or 1000 copies, can’t remember exactly. He goes on in the article to say next time he visited the dealer claimed to have sold them all individually to the UK. Be interesting to read that article again, anyone got a scan?

Cecil an iconic record and the definition of NS to I would say…all time top 2,  but certainly not that rate

 

 

Very doubtful. Records pressed back then were put in 25 count boxes, cartons of four 25 count boxes, and sometimes in boxes of 200. It would be extremely difficult to lift a box of 500, let alone 1,000. Still, it augments the legend just a little bit.

I know a Detroit dealer who made contact with a local record wholesaler 10 years ago, who allegedly had all the rarities but wouldn’t allow anyone in to look over them. To the best of my knowledge, he still hasn’t had the stock reputed to be in the warehouse. And so the quest to find dead stock of Cecil Washington continues.

[Winsford Soul]

3 hours ago, Chalky said:

Cecil far from rare, certainly not as rare as some make it out to be.  Most dealers have had copies with some having multiple.  £5k far too much IMO. 

That's what I said Karl. Not so rare records and ridiculous at 5k , that was just what my end price guess would be.

[Modernsoulsucks]

22 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Very doubtful. Records pressed back then were put in 25 count boxes, cartons of four 25 count boxes, and sometimes in boxes of 200. It would be extremely difficult to lift a box of 500, let alone 1,000. Still, it augments the legend just a little bit.

I know a Detroit dealer who made contact with a local record wholesaler 10 years ago, who allegedly had all the rarities but wouldn’t allow anyone in to look over them. To the best of my knowledge, he still hasn’t had the stock reputed to be in the warehouse. And so the quest to find dead stock of Cecil Washington continues.

You are assuming the 45 was in the original box or boxes. 

Back in 79/80 I once came across 500 or so Sherlock Holmes all in one box. The other 45s were also in very large boxes. Just the way the seller stored them I guess.

Around that same time Larry [Ray] Pietowski told me about Cadet warehouse in Detroit. Long time ago but pretty sure he mentioned Cecil being in there. Has he had not been able to get in and knowing he knew Koppell well, I wonder if that was where Koppell was talking about.

Anyway phoned Cadet and got in ! We both went round. Hundreds of Gary Haines Loads on PANIK label. A row of Hyperions I think. However no Cecil but then only in there 30 minutes or so as the owner came in and berated the employee who had let us in and threw us out.

[Mark W]

57 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

Very doubtful. Records pressed back then were put in 25 count boxes, cartons of four 25 count boxes, and sometimes in boxes of 200. It would be extremely difficult to lift a box of 500, let alone 1,000. Still, it augments the legend just a little bit.

I know a Detroit dealer who made contact with a local record wholesaler 10 years ago, who allegedly had all the rarities but wouldn’t allow anyone in to look over them. To the best of my knowledge, he still hasn’t had the stock reputed to be in the warehouse. And so the quest to find dead stock of Cecil Washington continues.

As I recall in Koppel’s article he casts doubt on the dealer having sold them all individually. If 500 copies had hit the uk it would have been obvious even over a few years, so the gist was what happened to that box .

Can’t see that Koppel would have any reason to exaggerate a find that he got nothing from. We’ll just need someone to come up with a scan of the Shades article, but I’m pretty certain the number was either 500 or 1000

 

[Mark W]

Found it, thought it had been  on here before.
It was only 100 copies after all! 

[Frankie Crocker]

22 minutes ago, Mark W said:

Found it, thought it had been  on here before.
It was only 100 copies after all! 

That’s more like it. Much more plausible.

[Kenb]

2 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

That's what I said Karl. Not so rare records and ridiculous at 5k , that was just what my end price guess would be.

 You only have to do a count back on this thread to find at leaset 20+. So sought after...but not rare.

[Wilxy]

I'm possibly a bit wide of the mark, but prior to JM's recent auction of Cecil Washington, the last time I can remember seeing a copy listed on here was probably 8-10 years ago ? when Shifty used to sell on here......I actually missed the copy he had listed,but he was good enough to get me another copy from the US, which the guy sent me direct, and a near minter as it still remains ! It cost me a high 3 figure sum, back then, and whilst it remains one of my prized items, I do have many other pieces in my collection, that do it for me in preference......Irrespective, my records mean more to me personally nowadays, than they ever have prior! But that's another story............

[Dave Pinch]

9 hours ago, Wilxy said:

I'm possibly a bit wide of the mark, but prior to JM's recent auction of Cecil Washington, the last time I can remember seeing a copy listed on here was probably 8-10 years ago ? when Shifty used to sell on here......I actually missed the copy he had listed,but he was good enough to get me another copy from the US, which the guy sent me direct, and a near minter as it still remains ! It cost me a high 3 figure sum, back then, and whilst it remains one of my prized items, I do have many other pieces in my collection, that do it for me in preference......Irrespective, my records mean more to me personally nowadays, than they ever have prior! But that's another story............

been a few on facebook..i sold my 2nd copy on there 2 years ago for 2k

been 20 copies thru ebay last one 2 weeks ago at £2,700  a nice ish copy too

[Mike]

a few on here over the years on our sales forum  ..

 

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/search/?q=" Cecil Washington"&type=forums_topic&nodes=4&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy&search_and_or=and

 

can narrow searches etc to individual forums if needed

[Tagtag]

Well it's still there on Manship's website at 2pm on Friday after the auction closed 6pm Wednesday.

And so is the Monclairs!

Maybe it's the same buyer trying to increase his credit card limit to cover the £8833?

[Frankie Crocker]

4 hours ago, Tagtag said:

Well it's still there on Manship's website at 2pm on Friday after the auction closed 6pm Wednesday.

And so is the Monclairs!

Maybe it's the same buyer trying to increase his credit card limit to cover the £8833?

I thought auction records were removed when the winner paid? Maybe the winner(s) have still got to pay up? Maybe there’s another explanation...

[Tagtag]

I agree, most likely the winner/s have not paid yet. Probably sorting out the finance. Not all buyers are millionaires.

[Soulman]

On 21/10/2021 at 18:50, Mark W said:

Found it, thought it had been  on here before.
It was only 100 copies after all! 

John Anderson left a 100 count box in Texas (unsure of the reason why) but it was pressed, released and distributed in quantity throughout the States

[Soulman]

On 19/10/2021 at 14:49, Blackpoolsoul said:

If it goes for much more it will be more blooming more expensive than the house it was recorded in (record is in better condition though)

https://www.estately.com/listings/info/666-beach-street--1

There were actually three Prophonic Studios. The first was upstairs in an office, it was then moved downstairs within the same building. The whole outfit was then moved to another building which was eventually trashed after the "source of this info" became disillusioned with the whole music scene. I have photo's and will endeavour to post them up when I get a free moment (at work at the moment)

[Zanetti]

... To Be Continued - CLICK H E R E