JMAuction - 01/09/2021 - Results!

[Zanetti]

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[Zanetti]

Zu Zu Blues Band - 714£

Johnny Gilliam - 722£

Jimmy Ruffin Acetate - 302£

 

[Zanetti]

Contours - 762£        

Bobbi Lynn - 203£

Jerry Washington - 539£

CONTOURS =

I'm not a specialist in English pressings, but that can't be true, can it?
Can anyone agree with me, or do I really have absolutely no idea .... Thanks

[Zanetti]

Sheila Ferguson - 700£

[Zanetti]

Johnny Gilliam is a  D E E P killer 45, but I think this sum is going a bit overboard now.
But no sale perceived for a long time. 

[Lionelonthevinyl]

I don't claim to be an expert on prices and probably a bit out of touch as I don't (not much anyway) collect any more...but...is Johnny Gilliam £722, and Sheila Ferguson £700 anywhere near what they go for?? Good luck to the sellers and JM, this is just a general enquiry to those who know far more than me...thank you...Rob

[Solidsoul]

1 minute ago, Lionelonthevinyl said:

I don't claim to be an expert on prices and probably a bit out of touch as I don't (not much anyway) collect any more...but...is Johnny Gilliam £722, and Sheila Ferguson £700 anywhere near what they go for?? Good luck to the sellers and JM, this is just a general enquiry to those who know far more than me...thank you...Rob

Those are way over the top prices, but we have come to expect that on these auctions.

The people who bid on these auctions must live in an alternative universe!

 

[Lionelonthevinyl]

3 minutes ago, D9 Ktf said:

Those are way over the top prices, but we have come to expect that on these auctions.

The people who bid on these auctions must live in an alternative universe!

 

Thank you for replying...I thought they seemed very expensive but as long as everyone's happy, good luck to them.....Rob

[Winsford Soul]

Thank you for posting as always my friend.  . 

Don't see one record that's worthy of Auction all every day run of the mill records in my humble opinion,  but hey what do I know. 

Johnny Gilliam. Long time no hear but surely not at that price.  

Sold my Sonny Boy Williamson for £40 more than that 12 years ago . Well past its sell by date as is most R n B type stuff these days. 

 

[Tomangoes]

Bought a comp blues cd twenty years ago with sonny boy Williamson on and was hooked straight away.

Apart from Roger Eagle....has it ever seriously been played out?

Ed

[Dobber]

I think with jm’s being the most prominant auction site,the poor bloke cant do right for wrong! If he simply auctioned the ELITE records he would get it in the neck for only catering the wim of the wealthy,and if he simply auctioned every day 45’s he would lose the respect he has earnt over the years,so in the end id say he has the balance right! He caters for everybody! He really isnt to blame for pillocks paying double for 45’s that dont warrant these amounts! 
 

[Winsford Soul]

13 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

Bought a comp blues cd twenty years ago with sonny boy Williamson on and was hooked straight away.

Apart from Roger Eagle....has it ever seriously been played out?

Ed

Ed it was played out here in the North West in the mid to  late 90,s early 2000,s at various venues and was quite popular, bought mine at Lowton civic in about 95 for £25 on a Pye pink promo 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Winsford Soul

[Modernsoulsucks]

5 hours ago, Zanetti said:

Contours - 762£        

Bobbi Lynn - 203£

Jerry Washington - 539£

CONTOURS =

I'm not a specialist in English pressings, but that can't be true, can it?
Can anyone agree with me, or do I really have absolutely no idea .... Thanks

Bobbi Lynn is crazy but that Contours is a thing of beauty.

I only collect USA Motown so no idea what TMG value is.

The track itself is probably one of the first "rare" soul items to be spun long before Northern was a thing.

[Tomangoes]

10 hours ago, Dobber said:

I think with jm’s being the most prominant auction site,the poor bloke cant do right for wrong! If he simply auctioned the ELITE records he would get it in the neck for only catering the wim of the wealthy,and if he simply auctioned every day 45’s he would lose the respect he has earnt over the years,so in the end id say he has the balance right! He caters for everybody! He really isnt to blame for pillocks paying double for 45’s that dont warrant these amounts! 
 

As you suggest the prices are not set by the auctioneer...although his persuasive descriptions make every record listed to be a must have item...must influence and massage the egos of the purchasers..

With lending money at very low interest rates, and rare vinyl increasing in value at much higher rates.....could we be seeing investors or flippers getting involved?

Ed

[Julianb]

2 hours ago, Tomangoes said:

As you suggest the prices are not set by the auctioneer...although his persuasive descriptions make every record listed to be a must have item...must influence and massage the egos of the purchasers..

With lending money at very low interest rates, and rare vinyl increasing in value at much higher rates.....could we be seeing investors or flippers getting involved?

Ed

Another dealer in Leicestershire always 'flipping' records. I've lost a couple recently to him only to see them on his website at 30% or more than paid!  I haven't bought them.

[Dave Pinch]

On 01/09/2021 at 18:14, Zanetti said:

Johnny Gilliam is a  D E E P killer 45, but I think this sum is going a bit overboard now.
But no sale perceived for a long time. 

its a little over but has been £500+ for some time now.. the sheila ferguson is mental imo.. the contours  and stemmons a little high.. didnt think Zu Zu was that kind of money either

 

[Zanetti]

24 minutes ago, Dave Pinch said:

Zu Zu was that kind of money either

 

[Frankie Crocker]

11 hours ago, Julianb said:

Another dealer in Leicestershire always 'flipping' records. I've lost a couple recently to him only to see them on his website at 30% or more than paid!  I haven't bought them.

Well spotted. I’ve noticed this too. Likewise, I’ve lost numerous auctions only to see the same records later advertised at significantly more. I’ve raised the matter on Soul Source previously - peoples’ views on the buying of records purely for re-sale vary. There is a possibly a darker side to this though as a duopoly can manipulate the prices of records allegedly ‘sold’. Dealers moving records to other dealers can create the illusion that values have increased when no actual sale has taken place.

[Gaz T]

22 hours ago, Modernsoulsucks said:

Bobbi Lynn is crazy but that Contours is a thing of beauty.

I only collect USA Motown so no idea what TMG value is.

The track itself is probably one of the first "rare" soul items to be spun long before Northern was a thing.

Bobbi Lynn isn't rare on stateside

they will be flying out from all over the place now from collectors with multiple copy's hoping to get a few bob

[Dave Pinch]

Not really a problem dealers buying from dealers. That’s always gone on. In this case it could be that they win from say .. Carolina soul on eBay and pay a world record price to acquire in the first place.. not sure how they hope to flip for profit

[Dave Moore]

3 hours ago, Dave Pinch said:

Not really a problem dealers buying from dealers. That’s always gone on. In this case it could be that they win from say .. Carolina soul on eBay and pay a world record price to acquire in the first place.. not sure how they hope to flip for profit

I know it's a mute point in today's environment Dave but buying records 'back in the day' was a vastly different animal. Buying records from US dealers would usually leave a margin that people were happy with, whereas most current 'UK sellers' are now armchair buyers who are buying at retail prices.  I'd given up looking in sales boxes apart from the ones I knew had gone and found the records they were selling. No point in trawling boxes of hundreds of hiked up Ebay purchases when I could buy them there myself. 

Dave 

[Dim]

I've been successful in three of JM's auctions in the last couple of years, but I've lost count of the number I've participated in. 

I normally approach them with a reasonable knowledge of the going rate for the record concerned and a maximum bid figure that I'm prepared to go to.

Of the three, I paid just about the right amount for Kenny Shepard.... It went for double that less than a year later on the same auction site... 

I paid well under the going rate for the My Pleasure album, June Yamagishi, featuring Bobby Womack. 

On the third I lost all sense and cognative function when at the last minute a telephone bidder jumped in and proceeded to up the anti. Suffice to say I ended up paying £250 more than I'd set my maximum bid at and because I love the record with a passion nobody else was going to have it. I lost the plot completely. 

I went straight to Confession

Therein lies the rub. I reckon there's enough people like me around to add upward pressure to prices, it's just that very few admit to it. 

The Incredibles was my downfall. 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Dim

[Midnight Drifter]

1 hour ago, Dim said:

 

I paid well under the going rate for the My Pleasure album, June Yamagishi, featuring Bobby Womack. 

 

I got the feeling that LPs are not seeing that rise in prices in JM auctions as 45s do.. could be wrong, maybe just me..

[Dave Pinch]

2 hours ago, Dave Moore said:

I know it's a mute point in today's environment Dave but buying records 'back in the day' was a vastly different animal. Buying records from US dealers would usually leave a margin that people were happy with, whereas most current 'UK sellers' are now armchair buyers who are buying at retail prices.  I'd given up looking in sales boxes apart from the ones I knew had gone and found the records they were selling. No point in trawling boxes of hundreds of hiked up Ebay purchases when I could buy them there myself. 

Dave 

records were certainly more plentiful back then without so much the demand for records. mere mortals in the main didnt buy from usa dealers. we had lists from the main players who did..john anderson etc and boxes from the smaller fish at nighters. buying from ebay was also great in the early days..no fun at all now with guys paying way too much for beat up records. when i say dealers always buying from dealers i mean lesser ( at the time) like pat brady who always bought stock from martin koppel.. andy dyson who worked at anglo and got a start there.. but these guys had the foresight and like you say their mark up margin was smaller..today all we have in the main are high priced records some not rare at all..and in the main a lot of cheaper ones are hard to sell as supply has outweighed demand

[Mal C]

22 minutes ago, Midnight Drifter said:

I got the feeling that LPs are not seeing that rise in prices in JM auctions as 45s do.. could be wrong, maybe just me..

depends, some LP's always go for money,  majority don't mirror the inflation that 45 get, which is good for us right...

[Dave Pinch]

23 minutes ago, Midnight Drifter said:

I got the feeling that LPs are not seeing that rise in prices in JM auctions as 45s do.. could be wrong, maybe just me..

i think youre right.. but now some guys are starting to collect more LPs as the cant or wont compete with the prices 45s command

[Mal C]

4 minutes ago, Dave Pinch said:

i think youre right.. but now some guys are starting to collect more LPs as the cant or wont compete with the prices 45s command

Yes I certainly am, this maybe a bit rich on here, and and not meant as a slight to anybody,  but 45's are a bit of a Muggs game... 400 odd quid for the Volumes,  just buy the demo and save a ton of cash... £150 for a demo?

Edited September 3, 2021 by Mal C

[Dave Pinch]

9 minutes ago, Mal C said:

Yes I certainly am, this maybe a bit rich on here, and and not meant as a slight to anybody,  but 45's are a bit of a Muggs game... 400 odd quid for the Volumes,  just buy the demo and save a ton of cash... £150 for a demo?

Thats all issue is worth imo malc. Who is paying these prices..  maniacs

[Greety]

2 hours ago, Dim said:

I've been successful in three of JM's auctions in the last couple of years, but I've lost count of the number I've participated in. 

I normally approach them with a reasonable knowledge of the going rate for the record concerned and a maximum bid figure that I'm prepared to go to.

Of the three, I paid just about the right amount for Kenny Shepard.... It went for double that less than a year later on the same auction site... 

I paid well under the going rate for the My Pleasure album, June Yamagishi, featuring Bobby Womack. 

On the third I lost all sense and cognative function when at the last minute a telephone bidder jumped in and proceeded to up the anti. Suffice to say I ended up paying £250 more than I'd set my maximum bid at and because I love the record with a passion nobody else was going to have it. I lost the plot completely. 

I went straight to Confession

Therein lies the rub. I reckon there's enough people like me around to add upward pressure to prices, it's just that very few admit to it. 

The Incredibles was my downfall. 

 

[Greety]

Don't be too hard on yourself mate. If you love a record with a passion then you just don't care, do you? I lost all sense of reality on JM's Sam Moore a while ago. Brownie's went for just over 1500, I finally came to mysenses at 2100. I don't know who I was bidding against, Bill Gates perhaps?lol.

[Frankie Crocker]

15 hours ago, Dave Pinch said:

Not really a problem dealers buying from dealers. That’s always gone on. In this case it could be that they win from say .. Carolina soul on eBay and pay a world record price to acquire in the first place.. not sure how they hope to flip for profit

True up to a point Dave. UK dealers have bought wholesale from US dealers for years as a basis for their business. Nothing the matter with that.

However, we’re witnessing a new movement in high-end record sales. Take for example the Anderson Brothers sold by carolinasoul on 23/5/21 that fetched £1,569 that was later put up for sale by a UK dealer at £2,250; some might consider this a smart piece of business, others may regard it as daylight robbery or plain extortion. Earl Jackson sold by carolinasoul on 23/5/21  for £531 and was later put up for sale at £800, then swiftly dropped to £750. Jeanette Harper from the same batch was also ‘flipped’ later.

The problem with this high-end flipping is galloping price inflation. It puts records beyond the budgets of many collectors. It distorts eBay auction finishing prices - this encourages other US dealers to fall back on high starting prices. It denies serious buyers their chance to acquire a long awaited want. Maybe I’m a sore buyer talking through my pocket, but I feel it ethical to express concern about the way the record market is being manipulated at the expense of committed collectors.

As we are commenting on John’s world record prices, one has to ponder whether some of the sales are records to be ‘flipped’ by another dealer, exchanged temporarily to brighten up a colourful website, put in a vault for 10 years to appreciate in value or enjoyed by dedicated collectors.

[Mal C]

Well, second hand car sales use this ploy, why don't record dealers behind a website...

[Tomangoes]

We also see quite often a "perfect unplayed rareity" going for double the value of a VG+ copy, indicating plays well but has the odd mark on the label etc.

So....it makes business sense to locked in that vault, as suggested.

That opens up our world to pure investors.

As they say, money talks.

A sad situation nevertheless.

Ed

 

[Dave Pinch]

11 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

True up to a point Dave. UK dealers have bought wholesale from US dealers for years as a basis for their business. Nothing the matter with that.

However, we’re witnessing a new movement in high-end record sales. Take for example the Anderson Brothers sold by carolinasoul on 23/5/21 that fetched £1,569 that was later put up for sale by a UK dealer at £2,250; some might consider this a smart piece of business, others may regard it as daylight robbery or plain extortion. Earl Jackson sold by carolinasoul on 23/5/21  for £531 and was later put up for sale at £800, then swiftly dropped to £750. Jeanette Harper from the same batch was also ‘flipped’ later.

The problem with this high-end flipping is galloping price inflation. It puts records beyond the budgets of many collectors. It distorts eBay auction finishing prices - this encourages other US dealers to fall back on high starting prices. It denies serious buyers their chance to acquire a long awaited want. Maybe I’m a sore buyer talking through my pocket, but I feel it ethical to express concern about the way the record market is being manipulated at the expense of committed collectors.

As we are commenting on John’s world record prices, one has to ponder whether some of the sales are records to be ‘flipped’ by another dealer, exchanged temporarily to brighten up a colourful website, put in a vault for 10 years to appreciate in value or enjoyed by dedicated collectors.

totally agree with that.. i dont see the point in bidding top whack on ebay with a view of flipping over here for much more. however sadly it does seem to work now and again. price tags have certainly put records out of this regular guys reach and i gotta be happy with my lot now particularly as its my living now and selling has to be more of priority before i can even consider buying.

[Dim]

3 hours ago, Dave Pinch said:

totally agree with that.. i dont see the point in bidding top whack on ebay with a view of flipping over here for much more. however sadly it does seem to work now and again. price tags have certainly put records out of this regular guys reach and i gotta be happy with my lot now particularly as its my living now and selling has to be more of priority before i can even consider buying.

I'm intrigued by this "flipping" concept Dave.

As a buyer, I understand that there has to be something, in any transaction, for everyone. I also understand that on occasions a premium may be added to price for certain records. 

Dealers who wait for certain records to flip later are surely playing Russian Roulette aren't they? Not a sound basis for success or reputation I'd say. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Dim

[Dave Pinch]

1 hour ago, Dim said:

I'm intrigued by this "flipping" concept Dave.

As a buyer, I understand that there has to be something, in any transaction, for everyone. I also understand that on occasions a premium may be added to price for certain records. 

Dealers who wait for certain records to flip later are surely playing Russian Roulette aren't they? Not a sound basis for success or reputation I'd say. 

defo russian roulette if your gonna pay £1500 for a £1500 record then hope to make money and pay your tax bill as well. the idea is to source a bit cheaper..make a bit and account for your tax. i cant see the logic in paying the goin rate then tryingto make money..doesnt sound like good business sense unless you know someone willin to pay well over the odds