Has The Northern Soul Bubble Burst?

[Dave Thorley]

"It just evolves"

Pretty snappy comeback but what do you mean? In what way has the scene evolved. Clubs playing obscure soul music back in 19 whatever. It is now 2006 and it has evolved how. Last time I went out it was to a club playing obscure soul music.

Not that IMO there's any crisis it needs to adapt and change to avoid.

ROD

But that has always been it's charm. Not all venues are the same but many I go to play a mixture, now including alot more funky 60's/70's stuff, slower 70's/80's stuff not played before and modern lesser know 90's and YK2 stuff

[Dave Thorley]

Changing To What Though ? Dont Get Me Wrong I Dont Think The Scene Will Just Die , And You Look At It From The Modern Soul Angle , Something That Doesnt Apeal To Me , Im Not Knocking It Dave, Im 6ts All The Way .

I Just Know That We Wont Get Enough Younger People On The Scene , To Keep NS As We Know It Going .

Get yourself along to Lifeline this weekend and you will see, or try and make it to our do, Soulshakers International.

[Guest James Trouble]

James. my son likes some northern to listen to, but he wouldn't be seen dead at a soul venue.

That's pretty much my point, I hope I don't have to roll out some photos and flyer scans to underline it...

Edited February 8, 2007 by James Trouble

[Modernsoulsucks]

Ged, Im not trying to be deliberately obtuse but Dave was referring to the Northern Scene evolving and you're referring to Dave's spot as compared to Stafford. He is one DJ.

What do you mean that Dave's spot has evolved. From what to what?

I mentioned Middleton and Sam last time I was there. Would I be right in thinking you and Flanny were on too. Again I don't really remember anything different from years ago. All the Djs played various styles of Northern Soul, a mixture of newies and oldies. OK that's slightly different in that at one time the oldies would be seperate in Mr. M's or similar.

What is it that you all think you're either doing or needs to be done so that a terrible crash, which isn't coming anyway or even looks like it's on the cards, is to be averted.

ROD

[Chalky]

It Will Never Attract Younger Crowds The Scene Is Far Too Complicated For Todays Youth , Its All Done By Computer , They Download Their Fave Tunes And Then Talk About Them On MSN With Their Mates .

Most kids like you say don't even use CD's these days and how many are old enough to remember 7" vinyl how many know what a vinyl record is add that to the fact most on the scene are old enough to be there mum and dad and more than a few their gran and grandad

[Modernsoulsucks]

Ah, the playlist has altered. So at some venues it's more like Parker's in Manchester used to be.

ROD

[macca]

the answer lies in mixing & matching all genres as in on the continent, a much younger crowd, but respectful to 'veterans' who happen to wander in off the street. sadly, the immense majority of british NS fans are far too parrochial to take such an idea on board. at the last 100 club, I saw a venerated dj/dancer, sitting on the floor, gesticulating rudely at ady's R&B flavoured set. perhaps it was just for a laugh though.

[Guest Leigh J]

Get yourself along to Lifeline this weekend and you will see, or try and make it to our do, Soulshakers International.

Im Off To Rugby This Weekend , Looking Forward Too It , Guy Hennigan Is On

May Do The One At Solihull

[funkyfeet]

Sometime back in the late 70's I wrote a letter to B/Echoes in response to the state of the northern scene, I could reprint it almost as I first penned it. Collectable, obscure, overlooked black music will always be collectable and there will also be people around who want to play them out to other people, it may not be a on the four beats 45, but it will be lost black music tracks that were missed the first time around. it has happened, it has evolved, when I first got into the scene I was buying 60's and every new 70's uk release I could afford, I'm still buying these, but I've since added 80's, 90's plus 2000+ tunes to my collection, most of the collectors I knock around with have done this so by this very nature the scene has evolved.

[Chalky]

Ah, the playlist has altered. So at some venues it's more like Parker's in Manchester used to be.

ROD

No Parkers would be considered far to upfront along side many of todays venues

[Guest Leigh J]

I have got to say this,

I am a newcomer and i can only give everyone i have met over the last 2 years a massive thumbs up. i have been treated with upmost respect and greeted when arriving at a new for me venue by fellow soul sourcers and people i met before with open arms and friendship.

The scene, music, people is superb and if it was better than what im finding now then all i can say is you lot really was spoilt to the hilt all them years ago.

I got into the scene through the oldies tunes and since i have been venturing out to different venues i have been treated to music from all genres such as oldies, rare 60s soul, r&b, modern, crossover,etc at soul nights and nighters. there aint much i dont like about any of them as the majority is top class.

I hope its not the tail end as im loving it too much for it to end soon and from the people that are doing the rounds every weekend i think they would be dissapointed too.

Bearsy

Glad To Hear It Mate

You Come On Hear , So Its Obvious That You Have A Thirst For Knowledge Of The Scene ,And As You Say Appreciate All genres , If Everyone Coming Onto The Scene Was Like Yourself We Wouldnt Be Having This Conversation

Edited February 8, 2007 by Leigh J

[Guest Bearsy]

Glad To Hear It Mate

You Come On Hear , So Its Obvious That You Have A Thirst For Knowledge Of The Scene ,And As You Say Appreciate All genres , If Everyone Coming Onto The Scene Was Like Yourself We Wouldnt Be Having This Conversation

Thanks, i really do have a massive passion for it and im loving every minute of it too. when i first registered on here about a year ago i was astounded by the negativity of some soulies about a scene they have been so passionate about for so many years. i wish i had found this scene 20 years ago as i feel i have missed out on so many great times, places, people, but hey i cant have it all. what i really find hard to understand is how some soulies who love this scene so much can even be bothered to think and care what other soulies should or shouldnt be doing in the scene. me and im not just talking about this scene but about life in general, i get out of what im doing and try my best to make the most of it and enjoy it all while i can as nothing lasts forever and your a long time dead.

If everyone focused on what was best for them and stop questioning people for having a different opinion or taste surely threads like this one would just be laughed at or would they, i dont know.

Can anyone tell me the date when the last tune gets spun as i would love to be there.

Oh and by the way, what many of you where experiencing 30 years ago i am experiencing now, new tunes everytime i go out, new people, new venues and the buzz of waiting until next weekend, (non soulie wife permitting of course). it life just great

Bearsy (the care free Bear)

[Pete Eccles]

Thanks, i really do have a massive passion for it and im loving every minute of it too. when i first registered on here about a year ago i was astounded by the negativity of some soulies about a scene they have been so passionate about for so many years. i wish i had found this scene 20 years ago as i feel i have missed out on so many great times, places, people, but hey i cant have it all. what i really find hard to understand is how some soulies who love this scene so much can even be bothered to think and care what other soulies should or shouldnt be doing in the scene. me and im not just talking about this scene but about life in general, i get out of what im doing and try my best to make the most of it and enjoy it all while i can as nothing lasts forever and your a long time dead.

If everyone focused on what was best for them and stop questioning people for having a different opinion or taste surely threads like this one would just be laughed at or would they, i dont know.

Can anyone tell me the date when the last tune gets spun as i would love to be there.

Oh and by the way, what many of you where experiencing 30 years ago i am experiencing now, new tunes everytime i go out, new people, new venues and the buzz of waiting until next weekend, (non soulie wife permitting of course). it life just great

Bearsy (the care free Bear)

If everyone focused on what was best for them and stop questioning people for having a different opinion or taste surely threads like this one would just be laughed at or would they, i dont know.

my point exactly!!! well said and carry on enjoyin it all!

Pete

[Guest Leigh J]

Thanks, i really do have a massive passion for it and im loving every minute of it too. when i first registered on here about a year ago i was astounded by the negativity of some soulies about a scene they have been so passionate about for so many years. i wish i had found this scene 20 years ago as i feel i have missed out on so many great times, places, people, but hey i cant have it all. what i really find hard to understand is how some soulies who love this scene so much can even be bothered to think and care what other soulies should or shouldnt be doing in the scene. me and im not just talking about this scene but about life in general, i get out of what im doing and try my best to make the most of it and enjoy it all while i can as nothing lasts forever and your a long time dead.

If everyone focused on what was best for them and stop questioning people for having a different opinion or taste surely threads like this one would just be laughed at or would they, i dont know.

Can anyone tell me the date when the last tune gets spun as i would love to be there.

Oh and by the way, what many of you where experiencing 30 years ago i am experiencing now, new tunes everytime i go out, new people, new venues and the buzz of waiting until next weekend, (non soulie wife permitting of course). it life just great

Bearsy (the care free Bear)

Just Enjoy It Mate F**k The Politics , As For Missing Out For Every Great Experience Theres Been A Bad One ,The Negativity Will Come With Time

The Non Soulie Wife Dont Sound Too Promising

[Guest Bearsy]

Just Enjoy It Mate F**k The Politics , As For Missing Out For Every Great Experience Theres Been A Bad One ,The Negativity Will Come With Time

The Non Soulie Wife Dont Sound Too Promising

The one thing just about nearly everyone says to me is, just enjoy it and dont get involved in the politics, what are the politics as i aint got a clue ( is there a manifesto) aint i totally innocent . like you say not everything is a great experience but its how you deal with it and come back stronger for the experience (get me), neggertivitity is not a word in my volcabulary as you can tell by the spelling as i would like to think im an optimist who wont get down over something so immaterial in real life. oh shit i shouldnt have wrote that as it is so material in some lives (sorry to those who fall in the catergory).

As for the wife all i can say is that she is slowly coming round (when i say slowly i mean a dead slug on a hot date moves faster), but hey who knows one day she may convert, she actually has in fairness to her been to a fair few doo`s and really enjoys herself but to be honest i dont want her thier on my shoulder all the time as she does cramp my style a bit

Blimey where did all that come from

Bearsy

[Guest Leigh J]

As for the wife all i can say is that she is slowly coming round (when i say slowly i mean a dead slug on a hot date moves faster), but hey who knows one day she may convert, she actually has in fairness to her been to a fair few doo`s and really enjoys herself but to be honest i dont want her thier on my shoulder all the time as she does cramp my style a bit

Blimey where did all that come from

Bearsy

[Catriona]

by the way i don´t go out anywhere every week(not possible),doesn´t make me feel any different as i play music most days so i am still in the very wide and different fold!

Steve

You ought to come over and get yourself out then Steve. You must be able to afford too with all these cheap air fairs .

I think if you did you would understand why there is so much feeling about the number of do s and nature of music on offer.

[Scallybob]

Compared to the late eighties the scene is positively buzzing!

After Wigan closed a lot of people decided that was that, did the family bit and "retired". But it never leaves you, does it? What also needs to be remembered is that as Wigan drew to a close some of us had had enough. Pop stompers, tourists, publicity wasn't what it was about. So the scene hibernated for a bit. Baz Maleedy and Flanny kept the Saints going and there was the odd do here and there but the scene came back to life when (spit) Northern tunes started to come out on CD. The kids were older so Mum and Dad could get back into it. Unfortunately it coincided with everyone thinking they were a promoter/DJ (partly because lazy people could play a big spot without searching out the records as they were all on CD) but great venues like Lowton, Prestwich, Bury Town Hall and the Grasshoppers started and it was game on.

I think a lot of the tourists came back but they don't have that intensity about it. Maybe it will strip back down to geeks like me who talk about Motown records by the label number rather than the title but I hope not. There are plenty of Soul fans who know what they like and don't care about rarity or labels or anything else. There were at the Mecca and at Wigan. There are kids who, if they hear "our" music would love it as much as we do. I don't think music to today's kids is as important. They will never experience the joy of buying "What's Going On" and taking it home on the bus. The timeless artistic design of a beautiful red and white demo or owning a London demo of Donald Height means nothing to kids who can download the sound for 79p. But they like the sound. My thirteen year old has all sorts on his i-Pod but his favourite record ever is TMG515-I Can't Help Myself.

I love the idea of going out and hearing anything from Terrible Tom-We Were Made From Each Other to Robert Parker-I Caught You In A Lie via Ace Spectrum-Don't Send Nobody Else. It's even better than the 100 mph non-stop of the early Wigan days.

And at King Georges last week Bob Hinsley played a £10 record that I'd never heard. Absolutely outstanding! Billy Young-The Sloopy. No matter how long you've been into it, there's always a surprise around the corner.

I love it.

[Guest Bearsy]

As for the wife all i can say is that she is slowly coming round (when i say slowly i mean a dead slug on a hot date moves faster), but hey who knows one day she may convert, she actually has in fairness to her been to a fair few doo`s and really enjoys herself but to be honest i dont want her thier on my shoulder all the time as she does cramp my style a bit

Blimey where did all that come from

Bearsy

Sounds Like Yer Out On The Pull Mate

I wish, an ugly mug like mine in a place full of blokes

I talk a lot and dance and dont stand still in one place to long and she moans as i have left her for ages and she feels lonely. its been known on a couple of occasions before that i actually forgot she came out with me, myself and a couple of mates had moved on to the next pub and left her behind and had to quickly rush back with tail between legs groverling like a dog on a diet.

never lived it down, so if she stays at home i cant get in trouble

[Guest Leigh J]

I wish, an ugly mug like mine in a place full of blokes

I talk a lot and dance and dont stand still in one place to long and she moans as i have left her for ages and she feels lonely. its been known on a couple of occasions before that i actually forgot she came out with me, myself and a couple of mates had moved on to the next pub and left her behind and had to quickly rush back with tail between legs groverling like a dog on a diet.

never lived it down, so if she stays at home i cant get in trouble

My Wife Hates It , Everything To Do With it , We Did have A Bad Period A Few Years Back I Suppose She Blamed The Scene , Woman Never Remenber The Good Things You Do Just The Bad Things .

[Guest Bearsy]

My Wife Hates It , Everything To Do With it , We Did have A Bad Period A Few Years Back I Suppose She Blamed The Scene , Woman Never Remenber The Good Things You Do Just The Bad Things .

Are you saying Northern soul is a bad thing

My wife has a horse and she would choose that over me so i would choose the music over her, i can sleep with my records

[Scallybob]

Are you saying Northern soul is a bad thing

My wife has a horse and she would choose that over me so i would choose the music over her, i can sleep with my records

She's not sleeping with the horse is she?

[Guest SteveJohnston]

My Wife Hates It , Everything To Do With it , We Did have A Bad Period A Few Years Back I Suppose She Blamed The Scene , Woman Never Remenber The Good Things You Do Just The Bad Things .

Her names not Tracey by anychance

[Guest Leigh J]

Are you saying Northern soul is a bad thing

My wife has a horse and she would choose that over me so i would choose the music over her, i can sleep with my records

My Wife Much Prefers Our Labrador To Me ! He Is A Nice Dog Though

[Guest thenorwichdancer]

If you were at Cleethorpes reunion Saturday, your question would have been answered..

Running out steam??...it was more like lots of bodies creating a whole lot of steam!

i'm afraid i really DO NOT AGREE with this comment!! i am 26 and have been listening to northern soul since i was about 20 and (now i'm single and can do what i want!) have just started travelling to Soul nights/nighters, everyone has different tastes and my tastes are not necessarily the same as other 26 year olds. but from my (limited) experience the 70s funk/disco is a complete looser; and cleethorpes was the worst i've ever heard, i had a headache and got changed early ready to get out the door asap!! i'm really sorry if you like this stuff - and there were loads of people there who obviously did - but i like soul music, and theres no soul in funk and disco.

i completely agree with Lyndsy's post, i just want to dance all night to quality soulful music. i'm sorry if those of you who have been on the scene are bored with the classics, but i am not, and if you want to get more younger people involved you have to play the exciting classic soul songs.

the LEL @ st ives for me was a turnoff as they played hours of mid tempo rare rubbish, it was really boring and we came home early. i am more than happy to dance to something i've never heard before but it still has to be GOOD!. this is a shame as it's just down the road from me. i try to encourage my friends to come with me but it's this kind of stuff which turns them off.

[Little-stevie]

Interesting post my freind..Lots to chew over there...Hours and hours of mid tempo rare rubbish ,could any place get away with that...I like many others started on the scene with the stomping northern classics and then got into the rare mid tempo rubbish as you call it ..

I and many others are happy with a good mix of tunes/styles/tempo from 60s and 70s,all in the same room on the same night..From classics to semi known and unknown also..Thats all we ask for...

I think you will get into some deeper soul as you get older mr Norwich,thats the way it seems to go for most...

[Guest Baz]

the LEL @ st ives for me was a turnoff as they played hours of mid tempo rare rubbish, it was really boring and we came home early. i am more than happy to dance to something i've never heard before but it still has to be GOOD!. this is a shame as it's just down the road from me. i try to encourage my friends to come with me but it's this kind of stuff which turns them off.

Have to disagree with this, Kenny B played an hour of uptempo soul music most of which were classics, Russ played a set full of uptempo, brain is a bit hazey today but think Mick played a bit of mid tempo stuff, but mixed it up well with some uptempo cant remember hours and hours of mid tempo

heres what i played that night looking through it i've highlighted how i thought it is

Up-tempo

Mid-uptempo

Mid tempo

The Dynells - C'mon little darling - Natural

Betty Swan - Lonely love - Money

Linda Griner - Good-by crule love - Motown

Irene & the Scotts - Stuck on my baby - Smash

Bobbettes - I've got to face the world - RCA

Darrow Fletcher - My young misery - Groovy

The Oxford nights - Im such a lonely one - Delphi

Lee Calvin - You got me - Sansu

Perisans - Twinkle little star - Demon hot

Dickie Wonder - Nobody knows - Golden triangle

Freddie Williams - I've got to live while i can - Hollywood

The Heartbreakers - I've got to face it - Derby city

Ad Libs - Johnny my boy - Blue cat

Detroit Soul - All of my life - Music Town

Danny Moore - Sombody new - Allrite

Carol & Gerri - On you Heartaches ect - MGM

Skip Jackson - Im onto you - Dot mar

Mello Souls - Hey Girl - C/up

Mods - Dry my eyes - Fona

Soul Gents - Wonders of love - Fros Ray

Fabulous Four - If i knew - Saintmo

Soul Notes - Dont make me beg - Way out

Othello Robertson - So in luv - Era

Eddie Whitehead - Just youe fool - Blackjack

Boss Four - Walkin by - Rim

Little Herman - Gotta Keep on walkin - Gina

Ortheia Barnes - I've never loved nobody - Coral

I do agree with you on the Disco part though

Edited February 12, 2007 by Baz

[Guest Lynsey_Wez]

Have to disagree with this, Kenny B played an hour of uptempo soul music most of which were classics, Russ played a set full of uptempo, brain is a bit hazey today but think Mick played a bit of mid tempo stuff, but mixed it up well with some uptempo cant remember hours and hours of mid tempo

heres what i played that night looking through it i've highlighted how i thought it is

Up-tempo

Mid-uptempo

Mid tempo

The Dynells - C'mon little darling - Natural

Betty Swan - Lonely love - Money

Linda Griner - Good-by crule love - Motown

Irene & the Scotts - Stuck on my baby - Smash

Bobbettes - I've got to face the world - RCA

Darrow Fletcher - My young misery - Groovy

The Oxford nights - Im such a lonely one - Delphi

Lee Calvin - You got me - Sansu

Perisans - Twinkle little star - Demon hot

Dickie Wonder - Nobody knows - Golden triangle

Freddie Williams - I've got to live while i can - Hollywood

The Heartbreakers - I've got to face it - Derby city

Ad Libs - Johnny my boy - Blue cat

Detroit Soul - All of my life - Music Town

Danny Moore - Sombody new - Allrite

Carol & Gerri - On you Heartaches ect - MGM

Skip Jackson - Im onto you - Dot mar

Mello Souls - Hey Girl - C/up

Mods - Dry my eyes - Fona

Soul Gents - Wonders of love - Fros Ray

Fabulous Four - If i knew - Saintmo

Soul Notes - Dont make me beg - Way out

Othello Robertson - So in luv - Era

Eddie Whitehead - Just youe fool - Blackjack

Boss Four - Walkin by - Rim

Little Herman - Gotta Keep on walkin - Gina

Ortheia Barnes - I've never loved nobody - Coral

I do agree with you on the Disco part though

i can see what 'thenorwichdancer' means, but it just boils down to how you personally define uptempo again. i dont think i know many of the tracks you have listed, but the ones i do know by title - which you have listed as uptempo, i would think of as definitely mid tempo!!

irene & the scotts - stuck on my baby

darrow fletcher - my young misery

ad libs - johnny my boy

detroit soul - all of my life

midtempo to me!!

[Guest]

Have to disagree with this, Kenny B played an hour of uptempo soul music most of which were classics, Russ played a set full of uptempo, brain is a bit hazey today but think Mick played a bit of mid tempo stuff, but mixed it up well with some uptempo cant remember hours and hours of mid tempo

heres what i played that night looking through it i've highlighted how i thought it is

Up-tempo

Mid-uptempo

Mid tempo

The Dynells - C'mon little darling - Natural

Betty Swan - Lonely love - Money

Linda Griner - Good-by crule love - Motown

Irene & the Scotts - Stuck on my baby - Smash

Bobbettes - I've got to face the world - RCA

Darrow Fletcher - My young misery - Groovy

The Oxford nights - Im such a lonely one - Delphi

Lee Calvin - You got me - Sansu

Perisans - Twinkle little star - Demon hot

Dickie Wonder - Nobody knows - Golden triangle

Freddie Williams - I've got to live while i can - Hollywood

The Heartbreakers - I've got to face it - Derby city

Ad Libs - Johnny my boy - Blue cat

Detroit Soul - All of my life - Music Town

Danny Moore - Sombody new - Allrite

Carol & Gerri - On you Heartaches ect - MGM

Skip Jackson - Im onto you - Dot mar

Mello Souls - Hey Girl - C/up

Mods - Dry my eyes - Fona

Soul Gents - Wonders of love - Fros Ray

Fabulous Four - If i knew - Saintmo

Soul Notes - Dont make me beg - Way out

Othello Robertson - So in luv - Era

Eddie Whitehead - Just youe fool - Blackjack

Boss Four - Walkin by - Rim

Little Herman - Gotta Keep on walkin - Gina

Ortheia Barnes - I've never loved nobody - Coral

I do agree with you on the Disco part though

"Mid-uptempo" ...is that an official pace Baz ?or did you just make that up? ....come on now dont sit on the fence!.....uptempo or midtempo please

[Guest Simon]

Have to disagree with this, Kenny B played an hour of uptempo soul music most of which were classics, Russ played a set full of uptempo, brain is a bit hazey today but think Mick played a bit of mid tempo stuff, but mixed it up well with some uptempo cant remember hours and hours of mid tempo

heres what i played that night looking through it i've highlighted how i thought it is

Up-tempo

Mid-uptempo

Mid tempo

The Dynells - C'mon little darling - Natural

Betty Swan - Lonely love - Money

Linda Griner - Good-by crule love - Motown

Irene & the Scotts - Stuck on my baby - Smash

Bobbettes - I've got to face the world - RCA

Darrow Fletcher - My young misery - Groovy

The Oxford nights - Im such a lonely one - Delphi

Lee Calvin - You got me - Sansu

Perisans - Twinkle little star - Demon hot

Dickie Wonder - Nobody knows - Golden triangle

Freddie Williams - I've got to live while i can - Hollywood

The Heartbreakers - I've got to face it - Derby city

Ad Libs - Johnny my boy - Blue cat

Detroit Soul - All of my life - Music Town

Danny Moore - Sombody new - Allrite

Carol & Gerri - On you Heartaches ect - MGM

Skip Jackson - Im onto you - Dot mar

Mello Souls - Hey Girl - C/up

Mods - Dry my eyes - Fona

Soul Gents - Wonders of love - Fros Ray

Fabulous Four - If i knew - Saintmo

Soul Notes - Dont make me beg - Way out

Othello Robertson - So in luv - Era

Eddie Whitehead - Just youe fool - Blackjack

Boss Four - Walkin by - Rim

Little Herman - Gotta Keep on walkin - Gina

Ortheia Barnes - I've never loved nobody - Coral

I do agree with you on the Disco part though

Don't agree with your tempos Baz, but there's some mighty fine tunage in there, Eddie Whitehaed is just awesome, probably in my top 10.

Think a lot of things that get called uptempo nowadays are actually mid-tempo, uptempo for me are things like 'A little togetherness', 'My little girl', 'Philly dog around the world' etc.

Simon

[jocko]

Compared to the late eighties the scene is positively buzzing!

After Wigan closed a lot of people decided that was that, did the family bit and "retired". But it never leaves you, does it? What also needs to be remembered is that as Wigan drew to a close some of us had had enough. Pop stompers, tourists, publicity wasn't what it was about. So the scene hibernated for a bit. Baz Maleedy and Flanny kept the Saints going and there was the odd do here and there but the scene came back to life when (spit) Northern tunes started to come out on CD.

Possibly the most un-informed or, as I suspect, ill informed post on here yet, which says something.

As Wigan drew to a close (the final 2 years is all I know) the new music being played was probably better than the scene has ever experienced since, just the crowds weren't there. WTF were the tourists and publicity 79-81?The pop stuff had mostly (with one obvious exception!) pretty much gone with the crowds.

There was more than the "odd do" on in the 80's, not sure I noticed Baz or Flanny at most of them but I was having lots of fun so didnt see everyone, mostly musicly carrying on the spirit of the final years of Wigan, great new music with people willing to challenge perceptions.

The crowds may have been smaller but to many the people were also the best that has been on the scene since!

To many the time you call the scene coming back to life was the time to move on.

I really cant be arsed debating this any more as nobody seems to want to listen, the story of the 80's isnt written (yet?) in any books or debated endlessly at the endless reunions currently going on (thankfully) although there are some threads on here might give you a little bit better information. I just hate history being re-written, in any field, and your cursory lines say it all.

Off for my gin drip!

Jock O'Connor

Edited February 13, 2007 by jocko

[Modernsoulsucks]

HELP MODERATOR!!

I've mixed up two threads here, haven't I.

ROD

[Guest rachel]

HELP MODERATOR!!

I've mixed up two threads here, haven't I.

ROD

Moved post into Soul Britannia thread, I take it that's where it was meant to be?

[Modernsoulsucks]

Ta Rachel. Valentine's day tomorrow and I've got nowt for her yet so Im a bit distracted with the thought of retribution if I doon't get down to the shops smartish!!

ROD

[Modernsoulsucks]

I'd like to agree wholeheartedly with Jock. By the end of Wigan the seeds were sown for a slimmed down less commercial Northern Scene. Some of my best memories are of the Casino when it wasn't rammed and Richard would not have the same pressure to play to the floor. There was also the small matter of the takeover by 70's sounds to the detriment of the 60's which was finally put back into balance when Stafford got into it's stride.

A word in defence of Baz Maleedy. When Dave and I were running Out of the Past in Manchester in late 80's and 90's before the boom Baz was a constant customer and bought loads of 45s both 60's and 70's. Bloody awful payer but he was around although maybe he didn't have the profile he has today.

ROD

[jocko]

Cleared post since Rachel had already moved relevant part. Confused you will be with the next episode of Soul-Source

Edited February 13, 2007 by jocko

[jocko]

I'd like to agree wholeheartedly with Jock. By the end of Wigan the seeds were sown for a slimmed down less commercial Northern Scene. Some of my best memories are of the Casino when it wasn't rammed and Richard would not have the same pressure to play to the floor. There was also the small matter of the takeover by 70's sounds to the detriment of the 60's which was finally put back into balance when Stafford got into it's stride.

A word in defence of Baz Maleedy. When Dave and I were running Out of the Past in Manchester in late 80's and 90's before the boom Baz was a constant customer and bought loads of 45s both 60's and 70's. Bloody awful payer but he was around although maybe he didn't have the profile he has today.

ROD

Rod was not meant to be a dig at Baz, just saying I dont remember him at all the things I went to in the 80's, not to say they werent there, but it kind of ridicules ScallyBobs implication they were carrying on the flame alone during the 80's. Sure Baz would be first to put him right on that, it was me trying to illustrate just how much of a history rewriting exercise it was in our Scally's world which I suspect is a fairly local world!

One different perspective is I have a slightly different take on the 70's stuff from Wigan, as for me they were played equally at end days of Wigan it was always the norm for me and therefore have always been into new soul as much as 60's so am kinda grateful for that. However do agree were periods of Stafford that reinforced that best allnighter music is a good 60's record!

Cheers

Jock

Jock

[Guest Baz]

i can see what 'thenorwichdancer' means, but it just boils down to how you personally define uptempo again. i dont think i know many of the tracks you have listed, but the ones i do know by title - which you have listed as uptempo, i would think of as definitely mid tempo!!

irene & the scotts - stuck on my baby

darrow fletcher - my young misery

ad libs - johnny my boy

detroit soul - all of my life

midtempo to me!!

Bloomin heck you like em fast Ok i could see ad-libs being debatable the the other three defo up-tempo the way i see it nowadays its not just about the beat the vocal can judge the pace of a record too

Don't agree with your tempos Baz, but there's some mighty fine tunage in there, Eddie Whitehaed is just awesome, probably in my top 10.

Think a lot of things that get called uptempo nowadays are actually mid-tempo, uptempo for me are things like 'A little togetherness', 'My little girl', 'Philly dog around the world' etc.

Simon

i usually judge a record on tempo of how fast i dance to it, if im gagging for a breath after then its uptempo

[Guest]

I think this is a good thread to reflect upon. Many criticisms of the soul scene that people in general make is that after a certain point (not sure exactly but I'd guess at least 5 years of regualar attendence?) punters can get a bit aggrieved with hearing the same records regularly. So then you get 'rarity' as a favoured target, and 'quality' gets relegated to second place.

I've noticed too many places either play all obvious tunes, or tunes I've never heard before (and the latter ones you can't even dance to either). Scenes reinvent themselves all the time, and I think perhaps the next wave of newcomers will be there on the whole for the music and atmosphere, not because one of the DJs has been spinning tunes for 30 years and has attained 'legendary' status.

I agree that people like Jame and Donna (and maybe Brighton Beach in London too) are doing a good job of popularising the sounds to new people, and long may people continue to do that. And suffice to say - good dancing music will never go out of fashion.

[Scallybob]

Possibly the most un-informed or, as I suspect, ill informed post on here yet, which says something.

As Wigan drew to a close (the final 2 years is all I know) the new music being played was probably better than the scene has ever experienced since, just the crowds weren't there. WTF were the tourists and publicity 79-81?The pop stuff had mostly (with one obvious exception!) pretty much gone with the crowds.

Well neither uninformed nor ill-informed, merely an opinion. Your opinion is that 79-81 was the best for new discoveries but I thought it was 74-76. An opinion.

You're right that the crowds were down in the last two years but I know plenty who gave it up when the tourists and the pop stompers started to ruin the place. And many never returned, either because they got responsibilities or just moved on. But loads got back into it about ten years ago and maybe now it's the second phase of that.

There were a lot of venues in the last few years catering for people who wanted to hear the "Wigan Top 40" or whatever but their longevity isn't guaranteed. That type of person was never at the forefront of the scene and although they are interested they aren't fanatical. And those who want something different can only listen to Frank Wilson so many times.

Part of the problem has been over-capacity. If your memories were of packed venues and great nights but your recent experiences have been quiet venues with same-old-same-old tunes you might not persevere with it.

Incidentally I'm not trying to rewrite history but Baz's nights at the Saints was the only regular gig I could get to when my kids were very young. I'm not suggesting that Baz was the only one burning the torch and it is a comment based on my local area. When you're not 20 anymore and you have responsibilities you can't be all over the country. I know there were other venues running but as I was doing my own "family thing" I couldn't get there so I wouldn't comment on them.

Edited February 13, 2007 by ScallyBob

[Scallybob]

Sorry, double post!

Edited February 13, 2007 by ScallyBob

[jocko]

Okay I knew I shouldn't have got into this but now I have started it seems rude not to respond. I am a bit confused since you seemed to have ignored what I said and answered something different. I appreciate most people are bored about this argument, having seen it a number of times on here, mostly by me, but I am going to carry it on for a number of reasons.

(1) I have had a long weekend, first for ages, and am grumpier than usual.

(2) That long weekend had fantastic music that reminded me of the spirit of the 80's.

(3) During that long weekend discussed on how on Web many people misrepresent the 80's or just pretend it didn't happen. You have done this on a number of occasions. That is fact not opinion.

(4) I hate misrepresentation of any history, and particularly something I care about.

You made a number of misrepresentations.

Well neither uninformed nor ill-informed, merely an opinion. Your opinion is that 79-81 was the best for new discoveries but I thought it was 74-76. An opinion.

I did not say that 79-81 was the best ever as you will see from quote below. I would not comment on 74-76 as I wasn't there, I was too young. Surely nobody would pass opinion on something he did not experience.

the new music being played was probably better than the scene has ever experienced since.

Furthermore you presented a number of things as facts, not opinions, which were wrong. Since you were not there you are either un-informed or ill-informed by my judgement.

You firstly said that people left at the tail end of Wigan due to pop etc, then contradicted that by saying it was before last 2 years, My understanding from others is the pop era was 76-78ish. Therefore well before the tail end of Wigan.

What also needs to be remembered is that as Wigan drew to a close some of us had had enough. Pop stompers, tourists, publicity wasn't what it was about.

You're right that the crowds were down in the last two years but I know plenty who gave it up when the tourists and the pop stompers started to ruin the place.

These seem to contradict each other, what era are you talking about, did you go the last couple of years or had you left due to the pop era?

To be honest my grump is more at your incorrect comments re 80's scene, the reason last couple of years at Wigan is relevant is the music laid the foundations for the scene to come and also some of those people, as Rod said above, were the people that took the scene in the 80's by the scruff of the neck and carried on the ethics of playing new quality music.

Incidentally I'm not trying to rewrite history but Baz's nights at the Saints was the only regular gig I could get to when my kids were very young. When you're not 20 anymore and you have responsibilities you can't be all over the country. I know there were other venues running but as I was doing my own "family thing" I couldn't get there so I wouldn't comment on them.

I am not commenting on your reasons for not going, they are yours and it was your choice, but as you say above your were not there, but you surely did comment on them as below.

So the scene hibernated for a bit. Baz Maleedy and Flanny kept the Saints going and there was the odd do here and there but the scene came back to life when (spit) Northern tunes started to come out on CD.

Look back to one of Simsy's thread and you will see there were many venues in the 80's, as you say you were not there so why pass comment on it. The main thing was people travelled wherever to get the music, not just 10 miles down the road and therefore we went to whatever venue the music was being played at. Your comment on the scene coming back to life is very much presented as a fact not an opinion, you cant have an opinion on what the scene was like before you were there surely, or do you mean it came to life when you returned?.

Really not sure what the rest of your stuff is about but I do not think it is relevant to my point, and I do not have opinions on most of todays scene as I am really not there that much.

I am now boring myself on this, so going to leave it. I just want people to be correct with their statements on the 80's scene. You most definitely were not.

I am off to be sedated.

Jock O'Connor

Edited February 13, 2007 by jocko

[Guest Bearsy]

My Wife Much Prefers Our Labrador To Me ! He Is A Nice Dog Though

Is he hung like a horse though

[Scallybob]

Jocko, if the sedation's worn off I'd rather talk about it over a pint at a Soul do. You're a bit selective with your comments but I've no desire to argue with you.

I have an opinion on whether the bubble's burst-for some it has, for others not-but as I've been on the scene more than not on it over the last thirty-odd years I think it's reasonable to debate my opinion without being rude. No matter how grumpy you feel!

Anyway, let's hope we vcan meet and discuss sometime. As Berry said, it's what's in the groove that counts.

[Modernsoulsucks]

"I think you will get into some deeper soul as you get older mr Norwich,thats the way it seems to go for most... "

I think slightly dismissive of Norwichdancer's taste in Northern, Stevie, but Im sure he'll soon move on to those 50p Tom Jones albums on the rare Parrot label.

ROD