Has The Northern Soul Bubble Burst?

[jocko]

Butch, Mick, Sam, Carl Fortnum, Paul Sadot, Karl Heard, Carl Willingham, Dyson, Trouble, Dean Anderson.

There.. thats 10 to be getting on with.

I expect you could be the next pope as well, if you had the latin, eh?

I would add Kitch to that list as well. Sadly underused these days it would seem.

Although havent heard all of them it is quite an impressive list.

[Guest Simon]

Butch, Mick, Sam, Carl Fortnum, Paul Sadot, Karl Heard, Carl Willingham, Dyson, Trouble, Dean Anderson.

There.. thats 10 to be getting on with.

I expect you could be the next pope as well, if you had the latin, eh?

Ok i stand corrected there's a few djs with a few rare items i couldn't buy but on the whole at your average NS night i could.

Take a look at most playlists that get posted up on here, a lot of them contain very similar & very gettable records.

Simon

[Dave]

I would add Kitch to that list as well. Sadly underused these days it would seem.

Although havent heard all of them it is quite an impressive list.

Agreed Jock re Kitch.

And there's probably plenty more if we thought hard enough, so a question that springs to my mind is this:

Why, when soul nights put on the one guest of the evening, do they not employ one of these guys, rather than their mate from 50 miles away with the same records as the host?

Maybe because the mate brings two car loads of oldies fans and will return the compliment of the guest invite. Sad state of affairs IMO.

[frankc]

I think the story of the analogy to the bingo clubs is very true, I would even go further by saying the problem is with the age profile of the scene. Just like the old R & R clubs where the diehards still turned up in drapes and greased up hair, the NS scene on the one hand is being kept alive by nostalgia and a belief that we can all experience what the scene was when the likes of Wigan or Stafford were at their prime (not possible), and while there is a genuine love and passion for collecting and dancing to the music, it's not enough and we're not getting any younger as they say. For the scene to survive, we do need to embrace and welcome any effort to attract new blood. I moved over to Ireland in the mid 80s, I've tried a couple of nights with not overall success; a little too far west of Dublin (Danny's doing great work there) and a smaller catchment area unfortunately. However, there is genuine interest from the under 30's, I started by circulating some sample tapes and received massive interest in the tunes, one total goth head asked me where did this tune come from (Del Larks Job opening) and thought it was the best thing he's heard in ages. What might be old hat to most on here, is heard for the first time by these folk....so that leaves a massive bank of tunes which can be picked from as new and fresh, there are no pre conceived notions or brainwashed dogmas, so people have no idea of the endless politics and egos doing the rounds, so it's great. We will be trying another night shortly, and the music policy will be 'whatever' as long as it's soulful (and that's modern, old, new).... And we'll define that as keeping the punters happy rather than anyone else.

[Souljazera]

yes the above named dj's certainly have very rare records....i presume by bubble we are really talking about the ageing population of northern soul events...cant wait for the nursing home dj roatation myself!!!!!!!

i guess the other bubble would be the zooming price of northern and modern soul records...its all about disposable income i guess....and foresight in simply buying records that you like...????

[Guest Leigh J]

yes the above named dj's certainly have very rare records....i presume by bubble we are really talking about the ageing population of northern soul events...cant wait for the nursing home dj roatation myself!!!!!!!

i guess the other bubble would be the zooming price of northern and modern soul records...its all about disposable income i guess....and foresight in simply buying records that you like...????

Very True If Youre Loaded You Can If You Aint You Cant .

[Dave]

Very True If Youre Loaded You Can If You Aint You Cant .

Pretty much true.. except that you can't buy taste.

[Guest Leigh J]

Pretty much true.. except that you can't buy taste.

Thats True , Many Confuse Rarity With Quality .

[Winnie :-)]

Pretty much true.. except that you can't buy taste.

==========

Some like fish, some like fowl, but taste doesn't depreciate because of a preference, it just becomes different taste

Winnie:-)

[Dave]

Thats True , Many Confuse Rarity With Quality .

Indeed they do.. but IMHO, not the folks I listed.

[Guest Leigh J]

Indeed they do.. but IMHO, not the folks I listed.

Neither Did I

[Rushden Vic]

There is two seperate scenes running and has been for a long time, simple as that one a stale retro scene with people just wanting to hear the same, and be trasported back to their youth, the retro northern scene is IMO pants, but at the same time always will have punters through the doors, they are more mainstream so it attracts a bigger audience, then you have the traveling crowd who go to the top venues places like Middleton ect will always be busy it caters for a wide range of customers, but still keeping in with the original 'ethics' of the northern soul scene, i hate the word but it is one of the more 'upfront' venues along with 100 club/lifeline/wilton to name three the allnighter scene is still buzzing with decent numbers at most venues. i dont think there is much to worry about just yet but failing numbers in local events that are dedicated to the music and not about the rebelion of oh its rare its shite type people and we dont cater for chinstrokers never have got what that is all about because surly if you are a northern soul fan you like to hear good dancable soul music???

Its people like James Trouble and Donna D who are doing whats needed and taking soul music to a younger audience in london and im glad to hear they are doing very well with it

baz i think your spot on with your comments about 2 scenes , scene 1 - there as certainly been a upsurge in the nostalgia /oldies type venues , i think one of the reasons is theres a lot of 40 somethings who are to old to go clubbing so they see a advertisment for a northern soul night and think eh didnt we like a bit of motown and norman soul when we were teenagers and of they go and have a nice time trying to relive there youth and suddenly there born again soulies who generally venture no more than 5 miles from there doorstep nothing wrong with this but the question his where were these people in the 80s and 90s .these venues remind me very much of the rock and roll nights of a few years ago . these people i would say are greater in number than the other scene .

scene 2 - allthough smaller this is were the dedicated soul connoisseurs are , wanting to hear fresh and different sounds with djs and collecters continually trying to source new records ,for the vast majority of these the rare 60s/70s scene as been a passion since they first got into the music not just something to do when it suites . its there for life .With venues like the wilton . lifeline , burnley etc etc keeping the scene moving forward into 2007 not stuck playing the same records that got overplayed years ago . each to his own but i know which scene i want to be part of .

Edited February 6, 2007 by Tony Parker

[Pete Eccles]

baz i think your spot on with your comments about 2 scenes , scene 1 - there as certainly been a upsurge in the nostalgia /oldies type venues , i think one of the reasons is theres a lot of 40 somethings who are to old to go clubbing so they see a advertisment for a northern soul night and think eh didnt we like a bit of motown and norman soul when we were teenagers and of they go and have a nice time trying to relive there youth and suddenly there born again soulies who generally venture no more than 5 miles from there doorstep nothing wrong with this but the question his where were these people in the 80s and 90s .these venues remind me very much of the rock and roll nights of a few years ago . these people i would say are greater in number than the other scene .

scene 2 - allthough smaller this is were the dedicated soul connoisseurs are , wanting to hear fresh and different sounds with djs and collecters continually trying to source new records ,for the vast majority of these the rare 60s/70s scene as been a passion since they first got into the music not just something to do when it suites . its there for life with venues like the wilton . lifeline , burnley etc etc keeping the scene moving forward into 2007 not stuck playing the same records that got overplayed years ago . each to his own but i know which scene i want to be part of .

And those on scene 1 know which scene they wanna be part of!

End of!

Regards,

Pete

[Richard Bayley]

IMVHO, it's probably unlikely that we'll see a big upsurge in young Soulies, without some sort of retro youth culture taking off, whether it be a "back to the source" style movement, fed up with the plastic gangster poses of so much current Hip-Hop and R&B, or a full-blown fashion thing, like the mod revival of the late 70's/early 80's - and they will more than likely want their own scene.....

Having said that, I think it's v. important to support those promoters who DO have a talent for bringing in a younger crowd - too many NS fans seem to want the scene to die with them Don't think we should be dismissive, either, of attempts to push NS at more 'mixed' events.

Remember, to a newbie, what's a played-out oldie and what's the dog's wotsits at Lifeline will look a pretty irrelevant debate (until they've had the same 500 records shoved down their throat week after week..... )

[Guest]

baz i think your spot on with your comments about 2 scenes , scene 1 - there as certainly been a upsurge in the nostalgia /oldies type venues , i think one of the reasons is theres a lot of 40 somethings who are to old to go clubbing so they see a advertisment for a northern soul night and think eh didnt we like a bit of motown and norman soul when we were teenagers and of they go and have a nice time trying to relive there youth and suddenly there born again soulies who generally venture no more than 5 miles from there doorstep nothing wrong with this but the question his where were these people in the 80s and 90s .these venues remind me very much of the rock and roll nights of a few years ago . these people i would say are greater in number than the other scene .

scene 2 - allthough smaller this is were the dedicated soul connoisseurs are , wanting to hear fresh and different sounds with djs and collecters continually trying to source new records ,for the vast majority of these the rare 60s/70s scene as been a passion since they first got into the music not just something to do when it suites . its there for life .With venues like the wilton . lifeline , burnley etc etc keeping the scene moving forward into 2007 not stuck playing the same records that got overplayed years ago . each to his own but i know which scene i want to be part of .

Hi Tony, firstly dont know wether you got my message? thanks for the record, nice suprise! hopefully see you soon ref. light ......Just wanted to answer a few things you put in your post ,as i started the thread....please take this as it meant to be, that is observation not argument....i cant argue with anything you have put it is your point of view , so fair enough....you seem quite critical of people that are returnees to the scene , does it matter where they were in the 80s or 90s?....they probably had good reason not to be around on the scene then....if they are enjoying the music again is'nt that fair enough.you never know once they are a bit fed up with hearing all the stuff they used to listen to they might want to travel some where further a field and listen to something different.

I do agree there is almost two scenes going on and i can understand why you want to travel to hear different stuff..but to be so dismissive of people that want to hear the music again simply deepens the divide and props up the two scenes scenario, and sooner or later if people aint bothering cos they feel alienated by the rare soul fraternity, the scene suffers for us all....i know you dislike the local oldies nights some more than others, we both know which ones ......all i am suggesting is try and think of the bigger picture ,any scene needs new converts to keep it going , they have got to come from somwhere...so if someone drops in on a local soul night likes the style of music that is played they will inevitabley want to explore more.....remember we both did that! many years ago .....all the best Jem

Edited February 7, 2007 by jemco

[Pete Eccles]

Hi Tony, firstly dont know wether you got my message? thanks for the record, nice suprise! hopefully see you soon ref. light ......Just wanted to answer a few things you put in your post ,as i started the thread....please take this as it meant to be, that is observation not argument....i cant argue with anything you have put it is your point of view , so fair enough....you seem quite critical of people that are returnees to the scene , does it matter where they were in the 80s or 90s?....they probably had good reason not to be around on the scene then....if they are enjoying the music again is'nt that fair enough.you never know once they are a bit fed up with hearing all the stuff they used to listen to they might want to travel some where further a field and listen to something different.

I do agree there is almost two scenes going on and i can understand why you want to travel to hear different stuff..but to be so dismissive of people that want to hear the music again simply deepens the divide and props up the two scenes scenario, and sooner or later if people aint bothering cos they feel alienated by the rare soul fraternity, the scene suffers for us all....i know you dislike the local oldies nights some more than others, we both know which ones ......all i am suggesting is try and think of the bigger picture ,any scene needs new converts to keep it going , they have got to come from somwhere...so if someone drops in on a local soul night likes the style of music that is played they will inevitabley want to explore more.....remember we both did that! many years ago .....all the best Jem

Very well said! couldnt agree more, from a personal point of view i must be one of the lucky ones! as after 30+ yrs of loving our scene (dont get me wrong there was a gap of a dozen or so years for a couple of failed marriages and a few kids) but as a twice weekly attendee since '94 i can honestly say i enjoy (some more than others) wherever i go! i never try to educate (hate that word) anybody of a lesser experience and try to show nothin but respect to those of a greater experience! so long as the respect is returned! i only ask that whatever the policy of the venue its kept real and in line with what the whole movement has been about since day 1! as i said before i dont particularly want to travel and pay my hard earned to listen to a. n. other and his mp3/cd player, apart from that my only gripe is folk tellin folk they shouldnt be listenin to this they should be listenin to that! i dont really care what anybody else likes or is doing! whatever a persons taste its a choice and they deserve respect, and as you say to keep on at them telling them their tastes are inferior and they need educating (that word again grrrrrr) will only widen the divide! theres no medals for service and to expect extra respect or a higher position in the northern soul community because of a lengthy presence is dare i say very uneducated? enjoy what you enjoy and allow the rest of us to do the same.

Kindest rgards always,

Pete

[Guest Lucy]

apart from that my only gripe is folk tellin folk they shouldnt be listenin to this they should be listenin to that! i dont really care what anybody else likes or is doing! whatever a persons taste its a choice and they deserve respect, and as you say to keep on at them telling them their tastes are inferior and they need educating (that word again grrrrrr) will only widen the divide! theres no medals for service and to expect extra respect or a higher position in the northern soul community because of a lengthy presence is dare i say very uneducated? enjoy what you enjoy and allow the rest of us to do the same.

Kindest rgards always,

Pete

Edited February 7, 2007 by Lucy

[Guest Bearsy]

Hi Tony, firstly dont know wether you got my message? thanks for the record, nice suprise! hopefully see you soon ref. light ......Just wanted to answer a few things you put in your post ,as i started the thread....please take this as it meant to be, that is observation not argument....i cant argue with anything you have put it is your point of view , so fair enough....you seem quite critical of people that are returnees to the scene , does it matter where they were in the 80s or 90s?....they probably had good reason not to be around on the scene then....if they are enjoying the music again is'nt that fair enough.you never know once they are a bit fed up with hearing all the stuff they used to listen to they might want to travel some where further a field and listen to something different.

I do agree there is almost two scenes going on and i can understand why you want to travel to hear different stuff..but to be so dismissive of people that want to hear the music again simply deepens the divide and props up the two scenes scenario, and sooner or later if people aint bothering cos they feel alienated by the rare soul fraternity, the scene suffers for us all....i know you dislike the local oldies nights some more than others, we both know which ones ......all i am suggesting is try and think of the bigger picture ,any scene needs new converts to keep it going , they have got to come from somwhere...so if someone drops in on a local soul night likes the style of music that is played they will inevitabley want to explore more.....remember we both did that! many years ago .....all the best Jem

Thats what happened to me and now im going further afield to broaden and explore my NS horizons.

im a newie and i love it.

Bearsy

[pow wow mik]

==========

Some like fish, some like fowl, but taste doesn't depreciate because of a preference, it just becomes different taste

Winnie:-)

taste can be objective. If your taste is shared by far more of a knowledgable audience than mine, then it can be said to be better than mine. If your taste is then inflicted on an audience as a DJ's is then the amount of your taste that is shared with your audience becomes important enough to become objective enough to put a relative value on it.

For example, I might like my painting more than I like the Mona Lisa, but that doesn't make it better. In fact, my painting is so shit I think it's completely true to say that Da Vinci's is better. I dont even need to display mine in the L'ouvre to prove this.

Edited February 7, 2007 by mik parry

[pow wow mik]

IMVHO, it's probably unlikely that we'll see a big upsurge in young Soulies, without some sort of retro youth culture taking off, whether it be a "back to the source" style movement, fed up with the plastic gangster poses of so much current Hip-Hop and R&B, or a full-blown fashion thing, like the mod revival of the late 70's/early 80's - and they will more than likely want their own scene.....

Having said that, I think it's v. important to support those promoters who DO have a talent for bringing in a younger crowd - too many NS fans seem to want the scene to die with them Don't think we should be dismissive, either, of attempts to push NS at more 'mixed' events.

Remember, to a newbie, what's a played-out oldie and what's the dog's wotsits at Lifeline will look a pretty irrelevant debate (until they've had the same 500 records shoved down their throat week after week..... )

I think young people will get into it if and when events are promoted and records are played by people from their generation, or who share the musical tastes of their generation.

So much of the northern soul sound was popular in a totally different era, I don't think it has much in common, musically, with the music that people in their 20s / 30s grew up with.

Most people of my generation, and the few generations before and after mine, grew up in an era where music was groove based, not song based, so feel music, however old it is, that is based on a groove and a minor key sound, because that's what the music that formed their taste was like - which is probably why R&B, crossover and funk and a certain 70s sound (like the style Soul Sam plays) and even deep soul have been so more popular with my generation than the traditional northern soul sound.

Most people of my generation I know who like vintage soul tend to like a Stafford era type sound, R&B, rhythm & soul, crossover, funky 'modern' and the odd oldie that fits into or near any of those styles. It can't be a co-incidence.

It's nothing to do with age of the DJ, like I said, I think Soul Sam has a sound that would be popular with a younger crowd and he's no spring chicken (sorry mate), but the taste of the DJ is very important if you want to pull in younger people. I've heard other 'big' or respected DJs & collectors who are older but have what I'd call a 'current' sound.

I think the need to please folks who love that traditional style is putting off new people getting into it. But it's fair enough to please them, they're the one's who've supported it all these years.

Maybe new nights or separate rooms are what's needed to please everyone.

[Guest Scarborosoul]

What a load of bollox this thread is 2 scenes etc etc CRAP CRAP CRAP I and many of my friends were around in the Wigan days etc and are still die hard soulies who travel and appreciate whatever is going on. It dont matter if it is an Oldies Nighter, Middleton or Winsford and we have also been to Wilton. Do not put us in the dinosaur box when the ppl who think they know it all on this site finally hang up their boots we will still be there. Not as old R & R teddie boys etc etc or plastic soulies who occasionally get out to play BUT as soul lovers we may not be able to quote who wrote this or who did that but we know our music and will not be told what to listen to what to dance to what sounds we have to buy. Why dont the Anoraks and self appointed sooth-sayers just get them selves together and leave the REAL soulies to get on and enjoy OUR scene>

[Guest James Trouble]

I think young people will get into it if and when events are promoted and records are played by people from their generation, or who share the musical tastes of their generation.

So much of the northern soul sound was popular in a totally different era, I don't think it has much in common, musically, with the music that people in their 20s / 30s grew up with.

Most people of my generation, and the few generations before and after mine, grew up in an era where music was groove based, not song based, so feel music, however old it is, that is based on a groove and a minor key sound, because that's what the music that formed their taste was like - which is probably why R&B, crossover and funk and a certain 70s sound (like the style Soul Sam plays) and even deep soul have been so more popular with my generation than the traditional northern soul sound.

Most people of my generation I know who like vintage soul tend to like a Stafford era type sound, R&B, rhythm & soul, crossover, funky 'modern' and the odd oldie that fits into or near any of those styles. It can't be a co-incidence.

It's nothing to do with age of the DJ, like I said, I think Soul Sam has a sound that would be popular with a younger crowd and he's no spring chicken (sorry mate), but the taste of the DJ is very important if you want to pull in younger people. I've heard other 'big' or respected DJs & collectors who are older but have what I'd call a 'current' sound.

I think the need to please folks who love that traditional style is putting off new people getting into it. But it's fair enough to please them, they're the one's who've supported it all these years.

Maybe new nights or separate rooms are what's needed to please everyone.

I Agree with everything you say Mik.

The problem is there are very few DJs who are capable of carrying this music to a new generation and understand what is needed to make this 'thing' relevent to 'our generation'.

Age has got nothing to do with it. Oldies and Newies have nothing to do with it. Posturing about being 'upfront' or 'anti oldie', unless it's an oldie they see fit to call under played of course, has nothing to do with it (although I would add that this is a noble if rather misguided stance).

It's about having DJs with the right taste and ability behind the decks, in the right venues, presented in the right way so as to attract the right people.

Oslo Soul is a prime example of how to promote rare black american dance music from the 60s and 70s in this way. It works. It's proved to work in many countries accross Europe. It will and is working in the UK.

Has the bubble burst? Is northern soul dieing? Of course not. Not while there are people who believe in this music all over the world and who a passionate about dancing to it every weekend. There's plenty of that going on and the number of people on this forum every day and the quantity of events on every week is testiment to that It just might need a bit of a tweek, if it's going to be here in another 10 years time.

Keep the faith, and all that...

[John May]

In reply to the original question, my response is I hope so !........Lets get the scene back underground where it belongs

[Pete Eccles]

What a load of bollox this thread is 2 scenes etc etc CRAP CRAP CRAP I and many of my friends were around in the Wigan days etc and are still die hard soulies who travel and appreciate whatever is going on. It dont matter if it is an Oldies Nighter, Middleton or Winsford and we have also been to Wilton. Do not put us in the dinosaur box when the ppl who think they know it all on this site finally hang up their boots we will still be there. Not as old R & R teddie boys etc etc or plastic soulies who occasionally get out to play BUT as soul lovers we may not be able to quote who wrote this or who did that but we know our music and will not be told what to listen to what to dance to what sounds we have to buy. Why dont the Anoraks and self appointed sooth-sayers just get them selves together and leave the REAL soulies to get on and enjoy OUR scene>

plastic soulies and real soulies? may i ask what qualifications are required for promotion from plastic to real? and who decides?

very interestig this!

regards,

Pete

[Guest]

In reply to the original question, my response is I hope so !........Lets get the scene back underground where it belongs

Didnt i say that

[Guest Scarborosoul]

Pete you know exactly what i mean

[ImberBoy]

What a bloody stooopid question? I mean realy please, we all know the so call "bubble" is born of born again soulies. It makes me blood boil it does!!

Blahh de blahh de blahh for years after the Casino there where the lean years, that was when the norvun bleedin soil bubble burst.

What we have now is a sea of sweating and balding middle aged men and women all enjoying their mid rift crisis. Just because Trev n Sharon don't want to sling sulph down their Swedes and go to the nighters don't mean the gig is over!!

The dreaded soul nights once despised by the real nighter goer are now top bollox nights with up for it DJ's and a more realistic crowd.

Yes there are CD's spun and ze Snake fans but there are some mega nights out there now. So if you truly honestly and cross yer heart n hope to die actually believe the bubble has burst then you aint getting out much full fookin stop!

And who the freaking Nora am I to say? Well I am ImberBoy! And I am here to save this forum from getting up its self. O and I am a northernsoul record collector and I only need three more records and I will have five of them!

Long live steak n liver pies. Long live The Imber Village Soul Club!

[Stuart Bower]

And your definition of 'right people' is ..........?

Errr...opposite to the people that are "left"? ....................when this so-called "bubble" bursts that is..... (God sometimes I`m so sharp I could cut myself! Oscar Wilde eat your heart out..)

They told us it had ended when certain venues closed in the eighties..and they stopped putting Wayne Gibson on Top Of The Pops (Oooo! Anyone else still remember that it was sooo embarrassing!!) -but we`re STILL here!

[Guest]

What a bloody stooopid question? I mean realy please, we all know the so call "bubble" is born of born again soulies. It makes me blood boil it does!!

Blahh de blahh de blahh for years after the Casino there where the lean years, that was when the norvun bleedin soil bubble burst.

What we have now is a sea of sweating and balding middle aged men and women all enjoying their mid rift crisis. Just because Trev n Sharon don't want to sling sulph down their Swedes and go to the nighters don't mean the gig is over!!

The dreaded soul nights once despised by the real nighter goer are now top bollox nights with up for it DJ's and a more realistic

crowd.

Yes there are CD's spun and ze Snake fans but there are some mega nights out there now. So if you truly honestly and cross yer heart n hope to die actually believe the bubble has burst then you aint getting out much full fookin stop!

And who the freaking Nora am I to say? Well I am ImberBoy! And I am here to save this forum from getting up its self. O and I am a northernsoul record collector and I only need three more records and I will have five of them!

Long live steak n liver pies. Long live The Imber Village Soul Club!

you could make this up

[Mike]

And who the freaking Nora am I to say? Well I am ImberBoy! And I am here to save this forum from getting up its self. O and I am a northernsoul record collector and I only need three more records and I will have five of them

welcome to site

there's a intro/shout section where can post up a intro

just to let you know, dont do joke accounts on here, all posting account s have to have a real id to go with them, no offence like, but its needed as just caused more trouble that they're worth in past

thanks

mike

[Stuart Bower]

Yes Ken ,I do see what your saying,but in my area ,midlands notts sheffield mansfield rotherham,You do have the choice, some places tend to favour up tempo stompers such as "dendogs do's" rare or underplayed stuff "Attic" ,R&B "No More Doggin" and also places that play the lot "pilsley or annesley" I support em all,dont know what its like "darn sarf " ,but my point is the choice is there..........well up here it is

Bazza

Bazza-We love "pilsley and annesley" but they DON`T play the lot-WE DO!!

Edited February 7, 2007 by The Soul Intention

[Pete Eccles]

Pete you know exactly what i mean

scarboro my comment may have been made with tongue slightly in cheek and i havnt made any opinions on wether the 'bubble' has or will or will not burst, im just giving my opinion on what IMHO is not really helping! and that is judging other 'soulies' on their tastes /histories/knowledge and yes their appearances per week/month/year on the scene then placin them in a handbag/plastic section at the same time as questioning the future of the 'scene, so you see scarbora i really dont know what you mean,

regards again,

Pete

[Mark Bicknell]

Scene wise my handbag is made of plastic infact it's a carrier bag lol, just requested to close my menbership to this site as better to do what we do rather than talk about it all the time.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Bazza]

Bazza-We love "pilsley and annesley" but they DON`T play the lot-WE DO!!

OK Stu,yes you do ,did'nt make the last one ,cya at the next one tho'

Bazza

[Pete Eccles]

Scene wise my handbag is made of plastic infact it's a carrier bag lol, just requested to close my menbership to this site as better to do what we do rather than talk about it all the time.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

point taken mark,

will be off then to do what i do!

Pete Eccles

[Makemvinyl]

yes and no

[Winnie :-)]

What a bloody stooopid question? I mean realy please, we all know the so call "bubble" is born of born again soulies. It makes me blood boil it does!!

Blahh de blahh de blahh for years after the Casino there where the lean years, that was when the norvun bleedin soil bubble burst.

What we have now is a sea of sweating and balding middle aged men and women all enjoying their mid rift crisis. Just because Trev n Sharon don't want to sling sulph down their Swedes and go to the nighters don't mean the gig is over!!

The dreaded soul nights once despised by the real nighter goer are now top bollox nights with up for it DJ's and a more realistic crowd.

Yes there are CD's spun and ze Snake fans but there are some mega nights out there now. So if you truly honestly and cross yer heart n hope to die actually believe the bubble has burst then you aint getting out much full fookin stop!

And who the freaking Nora am I to say? Well I am ImberBoy! And I am here to save this forum from getting up its self. O and I am a northernsoul record collector and I only need three more records and I will have five of them!

Long live steak n liver pies. Long live The Imber Village Soul Club!

===========

SC, is that really you?

Winnie:-)

[Winnie :-)]

I think young people will get into it if and when events are promoted and records are played by people from their generation, or who share the musical tastes of their generation.

So much of the northern soul sound was popular in a totally different era, I don't think it has much in common, musically, with the music that people in their 20s / 30s grew up with.

Most people of my generation, and the few generations before and after mine, grew up in an era where music was groove based, not song based, so feel music, however old it is, that is based on a groove and a minor key sound, because that's what the music that formed their taste was like - which is probably why R&B, crossover and funk and a certain 70s sound (like the style Soul Sam plays) and even deep soul have been so more popular with my generation than the traditional northern soul sound.

Most people of my generation I know who like vintage soul tend to like a Stafford era type sound, R&B, rhythm & soul, crossover, funky 'modern' and the odd oldie that fits into or near any of those styles. It can't be a co-incidence.

It's nothing to do with age of the DJ, like I said, I think Soul Sam has a sound that would be popular with a younger crowd and he's no spring chicken (sorry mate), but the taste of the DJ is very important if you want to pull in younger people. I've heard other 'big' or respected DJs & collectors who are older but have what I'd call a 'current' sound.

I think the need to please folks who love that traditional style is putting off new people getting into it. But it's fair enough to please them, they're the one's who've supported it all these years.

Maybe new nights or separate rooms are what's needed to please everyone.

=========================

This post and James T's follow up posts make almost perfect sense to me. The only bit I'd maybe question is

"I think the need to please folks who love that traditional style is putting off new people getting into it. But it's fair enough to please them, they're the one's who've supported it all these years".

Just seems to be a little contradictory and that you're still wanting to please everyone??

[Guest]

=========================

This post and James T's follow up posts make almost perfect sense to me. The only bit I'd maybe question is

"I think the need to please folks who love that traditional style is putting off new people getting into it. But it's fair enough to please them, they're the one's who've supported it all these years".

Just seems to be a little contradictory and that you're still wanting to please everyone??

I basically agree with most of that as well

OK I ORIGINALLY ASKED THE QUESTION "HAS THE NORTHERN SOUL BUBBLE BURST" ...as the thread seems to be slowing down , gonna make my final post....here go's

From the many replies the question has recieved .....I would have to say the answer is NO IT HAS'NT....it seems to me that the following for all strands of the music is pretty healthy and there are more than enough venues catering for everybodys needs......i know politics has, and probably always will be a part of scene...but would like to think that now a lot of us are a bit older and tolerant (maybe)...we should live and let live and let people choose their own way with out fear of contradiction........i look forward to enjoying the music i have loved for 30+ years for another 30...if i am still hear....if nothing else my Sons will have some records to cherish....mind you they will probably just take them down the tip with all the rest of me rubbish

Now i am off to do what somebody else on this thread suggested!....that is to go away ,stop talking about it and just enjoy it.....quite timely as well , just had a couple of records turn up in the post from the States.............Now thats what its all about!!!! :dance:

[pow wow mik]

=========================

This post and James T's follow up posts make almost perfect sense to me. The only bit I'd maybe question is

"I think the need to please folks who love that traditional style is putting off new people getting into it. But it's fair enough to please them, they're the one's who've supported it all these years".

Just seems to be a little contradictory and that you're still wanting to please everyone??

well, what I meant is, the traditional Northern sound that so many people love has a massive fan base of people who've supported it for years. You can't just ignore their tastes in order to make it trendy, so that sound should and will go on untill all of that generation's hips go!

Which is why I think separate rooms / do's are needed. Like James said, Oslo has worked so well and gets a younger generation in because it is free to play a sound that fits in with the tastes of the DJs (and therefore the punters who are of a similar or younger generations) not feeling forced to play a sound that was popular 25+ years ago in England, as so many soul DJs do in England, however young they are.

Like James says, I dont think it has anything to do with oldies and newies, a lot of 'newies' sound like oldies, if you know what i mean! they're unknown, but have that trad northern sound.

In order for a young generation to carry on the torch, they need to shape the taste of the scene themselves, so it needs to be separate.

There's other factors too, like I think younger people would rather be in proper nightclubs, are used to better quality sound, more variety maybe. Good things tend to survive though.

[Modernsoulsucks]

The Northern Scene appears to be thriving in various formats so I don't know why people are worried. There will be no collective bursting of any bubble.

Individually there's bound to be as there are lots of folk who aren't on the scene now who used to be and Northern never went away. They did!!

Personally my bubble burst when I realised I couldn't afford a lot of what I like. I enjoyed Quinvy's allnighter but not so keen on Middleton and I'd rather save the £70-80 on a night out at Middleton and buy some 45s. Also that smoking ban will be in force soon. So I guess I for one won't be keeping the scene going as a paying punter but Im not so egocentric to think it will make one jot of difference.

Only thing that perplexes me is this regular call to get young blood on the scene. Someone mentioned a goth liking Del-Larks. Sam played Del-Larks last time I was at Middleton and it's been around since 1973. Just can't get my head around how that is different to same old 500 someone else mentioned.

I would be interested in seeing a playlist from James Trouble so I have an idea of what this new sound is that will attract a younger crowd.

ROD

[Steve G]

I Agree with everything you say Mik.

The problem is there are very few DJs who are capable of carrying this music to a new generation and understand what is needed to make this 'thing' relevent to 'our generation'.

Age has got nothing to do with it. Oldies and Newies have nothing to do with it. Posturing about being 'upfront' or 'anti oldie', unless it's an oldie they see fit to call under played of course, has nothing to do with it (although I would add that this is a noble if rather misguided stance).

It's about having DJs with the right taste and ability behind the decks, in the right venues, presented in the right way so as to attract the right people.

Oslo Soul is a prime example of how to promote rare black american dance music from the 60s and 70s in this way. It works. It's proved to work in many countries accross Europe. It will and is working in the UK.

Has the bubble burst? Is northern soul dieing? Of course not. Not while there are people who believe in this music all over the world and who a passionate about dancing to it every weekend. There's plenty of that going on and the number of people on this forum every day and the quantity of events on every week is testiment to that It just might need a bit of a tweek, if it's going to be here in another 10 years time.

Keep the faith, and all that...

James. my son likes some northern to listen to, but he wouldn't be seen dead at a soul venue.

[michael-j]

James. my son likes some northern to listen to, but he wouldn't be seen dead at a soul venue.

i think that's James' point...

speaking as a relatively 'young' person (30 this year!), i don't want to drive to some banqueting suite or rugby club in the middle of nowhere in order to go out - i want to go to a more 'normal' city centre venue on foot or by public transport. that's why 60s, mod or soul events such as Shooting High, Crossfire, Mousetrap, Pow Wow, London Bridge All Nighter, etc (and i presume Oslo Soul, Boiler Club, etc in Europe) and hopefully James' Soul Revolution can and will attract younger crowds.

[Guest]

i think that's James' point...

speaking as a relatively 'young' person (30 this year!), i don't want to drive to some banqueting suite or rugby club in the middle of nowhere in order to go out - i want to go to a more 'normal' city centre venue on foot or by public transport. that's why 60s, mod or soul events such as Shooting High, Crossfire, Mousetrap, Pow Wow, London Bridge All Nighter, etc (and i presume Oslo Soul, Boiler Club, etc in Europe) and hopefully James' Soul Revolution can and will attract younger crowds.

Hi mate, get the train to Wellingborough on 28th April , approx 50 mins. from London , Silks Club, is within walking distance of the station. and is situated in the town centre....join myself , Len Dopson and guest djs..hopefully play you some blinding tunes .....all the best ...Jem

[Guest Leigh J]

i think that's James' point...

speaking as a relatively 'young' person (30 this year!), i don't want to drive to some banqueting suite or rugby club in the middle of nowhere in order to go out - i want to go to a more 'normal' city centre venue on foot or by public transport. that's why 60s, mod or soul events such as Shooting High, Crossfire, Mousetrap, Pow Wow, London Bridge All Nighter, etc (and i presume Oslo Soul, Boiler Club, etc in Europe) and hopefully James' Soul Revolution can and will attract younger crowds.

It Will Never Attract Younger Crowds The Scene Is Far Too Complicated For Todays Youth , Its All Done By Computer , They Download Their Fave Tunes And Then Talk About Them On MSN With Their Mates .

We Travelled All Over England & Scotland By Train Or Coach It Took Up The Whole Weekend , The Rest Of The Week Was spent Going Through Record Lists . I Just Cant See Kids Wanting To Do That .

When I First Started I Was Took The Piss Out Of Because I Was New And didnt Know Very Much , A Common Thing Then , And Now , Newcomers Are Treated As A Bit Of A Joke , The Scene Is Oh So Split These Days More Than Ever Before , In My Experience The 'Returnees' Dont Want To Listen To Anything Other Than They Already Know , Ive Been Called 'A Rare 60's Twat ' Thats Not Proper Northern etc.............

The Bubble Hasnt Burst But Lets Not Kid Ourselves This IS The Tail End Of The Northern Soul Scene.

[Dave Thorley]

No, it just evolves. Right now it's just going through another of it's change periods. I have always felt change is good!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Leigh J]

No, it just evolves. Right now it's just going through another of it's change periods. I have always felt change is good!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Changing To What Though ? Dont Get Me Wrong I Dont Think The Scene Will Just Die , And You Look At It From The Modern Soul Angle , Something That Doesnt Apeal To Me , Im Not Knocking It Dave, Im 6ts All The Way .

I Just Know That We Wont Get Enough Younger People On The Scene , To Keep NS As We Know It Going .

[Modernsoulsucks]

"It just evolves"

Pretty snappy comeback but what do you mean? In what way has the scene evolved. Clubs playing obscure soul music back in 19 whatever. It is now 2006 and it has evolved how. Last time I went out it was to a club playing obscure soul music.

Not that IMO there's any crisis it needs to adapt and change to avoid.

ROD

[Guest Bearsy]

It Will Never Attract Younger Crowds The Scene Is Far Too Complicated For Todays Youth , Its All Done By Computer , They Download Their Fave Tunes And Then Talk About Them On MSN With Their Mates .

We Travelled All Over England & Scotland By Train Or Coach It Took Up The Whole Weekend , The Rest Of The Week Was spent Going Through Record Lists . I Just Cant See Kids Wanting To Do That .

When I First Started I Was Took The Piss Out Of Because I Was New And didnt Know Very Much , A Common Thing Then , And Now , Newcomers Are Treated As A Bit Of A Joke , The Scene Is Oh So Split These Days More Than Ever Before , In My Experience The 'Returnees' Dont Want To Listen To Anything Other Than They Already Know , Ive Been Called 'A Rare 60's Twat ' Thats Not Proper Northern etc.............

The Bubble Hasnt Burst But Lets Not Kid Ourselves This IS The Tail End Of The Northern Soul Scene.

I have got to say this,

I am a newcomer and i can only give everyone i have met over the last 2 years a massive thumbs up. i have been treated with upmost respect and greeted when arriving at a new for me venue by fellow soul sourcers and people i met before with open arms and friendship.

The scene, music, people is superb and if it was better than what im finding now then all i can say is you lot really was spoilt to the hilt all them years ago.

I got into the scene through the oldies tunes and since i have been venturing out to different venues i have been treated to music from all genres such as oldies, rare 60s soul, r&b, modern, crossover,etc at soul nights and nighters. there aint much i dont like about any of them as the majority is top class.

I hope its not the tail end as im loving it too much for it to end soon and from the people that are doing the rounds every weekend i think they would be dissapointed too.

Bearsy

[Ged Parker]

"It just evolves"

Pretty snappy comeback but what do you mean? In what way has the scene evolved. Clubs playing obscure soul music back in 19 whatever. It is now 2006 and it has evolved how. Last time I went out it was to a club playing obscure soul music.

Not that IMO there's any crisis it needs to adapt and change to avoid.

ROD

Rod

Just catch one of Dave's spots and compare it to one of his at Stafford I think you'll agree it is clear it has evolved.