Has The Northern Soul Bubble Burst?

[Guest]

I have read with intrest ,recent comments on more than one thread on this forum about the Northern Soul bubble bursting or about to burst...is there any truth in this and if so why?...is it lack of quality new sounds to be found , too many venues , too much politics...or is it just running out of steam? or are we worrying about nothing and infact all is well....be interested to hear other peoples views on this, wether they be promoters, djs, collectors, or simply fans of the scene in general.

[Guest barnsey]

its not just the running out of steam its the lack of people going in steam in the first place.we can always trip the ones running out up before they reach the door. lol

[Tabs]

I have read with intrest ,recent comments on more than one thread on this forum about the Northern Soul bubble bursting or about to burst...is there any truth in this and if so why?...is it lack of quality new sounds to be found , too many venues , too much politics...or is it just running out of steam? or are we worrying about nothing and infact all is well....be interested to hear other peoples views on this, wether they be promoters, djs, collectors, or simply fans of the scene in general.

IMO not much too worry about.

In no particular order:-

Politics - always been a part of the scene (in fact anything you care to mention). I believe this can be ignored.

Too many venues. Possibly correct but if there wasn't the demand / numbers then there wouldn't be so many promotions.

Quality sounds - they will always be discovered. Again my opinion but as the scene is now so diverse and covers so many genres new records will always be avaialble.

My only concern is that the rare soul scene is ageing.

The number of young ( and I mean 20 yo +) people I see in my travels is negligible.

All the venues I've been too have an average age of 45+.

Common sense says this is not sustainable.

Without the young blood it is inevitable that the scene will shrink and eventually die.

Good topic and I enjoyed Silk!

Best

Tabs

[Lenny Harkins]

for the right people it will never die....and if people fall by the way side....more records on the cheap for me.

[Guest]

Dont care,might drive it bakc were it should be"underground"

[Lenny Harkins]

Dont care,might drive it bakc were it should be"underground"

as a said ken...its never gonna die for the right people...is it??

[Tabs]

for the right people it will never die....and if people fall by the way side....more records on the cheap for me.

And your definition of 'right people' is ..........?

[Tabs]

Dont care,might drive it bakc were it should be"underground"

Agree to a certain extent but as the last person left standing will you turn off the lights as you leave?

[Guest barnsey]

Dont care,might drive it bakc were it should be"underground"

roll on the day

[Guest kevnewry]

Good question,new blood is definatley needed to sustain the scene that is without a doubt the major concern, however there seems to be a vast number of soul nites up and down the uk to keep things ticking over at the present. If the average age is 45 of the people attending these soul nites however is very worrying indeed, the question is how do we get the younger generation interested enough to get off their arses and listen and dance to in our opinion the greatest music ever made. Unfortunatley i have no magic answer to this question, but i would put the challenge to the promoters out there who may have some tricks up their selves. Northern Soul is a very hardy animal indeed, it has come through a lot of diversication in its 40 years i for one will always love it no matter how ugly it becomes,we once shared venues with jazz funk, we now have modern roooms rnb rooms god knows what else rooms, ask the youth and maybe we could share another room and who knows what the outcome might be, but i think its worth a shot. Kev.

[Lenny Harkins]

And your definition of 'right people' is ..........?

Some body that spent their whole youth not paying something ie bills . mummys rent , leccy, any fucking thing, to let them get to the nighter this weekend or buy that record they want play at the local club, you should know that.

for a working class dj, with every big record coming thru the door, comes a letter from the fuckin bank

Edited February 4, 2007 by lenny h.

[Tabs]

Some body that spent their whole youth not paying something ie bills . mummys rent , leccy, any fucking thing, to let them get to the nighter this weekend or buy that record they want play at the local club, you should know that.

for a working class dj, with every big record coming thru the door, comes a letter from the fuckin bank

So by your definition anybody who ignores a responsibilty to honour an obligation is a 'right person'.

Intresting view point and not one I agree with.

[Lenny Harkins]

So by your definition anybody who ignores a responsibilty to honour an obligation is a 'right person'.

Intresting view point and not one I agree with.

devistated

[Lenny Harkins]

Agree to a certain extent but as the last person left standing will you turn off the lights as you leave?

bye bye /...........now if youre off wots in your box

[Trev Thomas]

Dont care,might drive it bakc were it should be"underground"

here here ken, couldnt agree with you more,

[Guest]

Good question,new blood is definatley needed to sustain the scene that is without a doubt the major concern, however there seems to be a vast number of soul nites up and down the uk to keep things ticking over at the present. If the average age is 45 of the people attending these soul nites however is very worrying indeed, the question is how do we get the younger generation interested enough to get off their arses and listen and dance to in our opinion the greatest music ever made. Unfortunatley i have no magic answer to this question, but i would put the challenge to the promoters out there who may have some tricks up their selves. Northern Soul is a very hardy animal indeed, it has come through a lot of diversication in its 40 years i for one will always love it no matter how ugly it becomes,we once shared venues with jazz funk, we now have modern roooms rnb rooms god knows what else rooms, ask the youth and maybe we could share another room and who knows what the outcome might be, but i think its worth a shot. Kev.

Some good points there Kev, i think at present we almost have a split scene, the traditional rare one and the more popular local nights where we have a mixture of people including ones, generally from the 35 age group up who all got into the scene at different times, some from the really early pre "Northern Soul" era right up to the Stafford era...and are now revisting it again...and some were probably not into it first time round....i personally enjoy both rare and more commercial nights...although people percieve these to be "same ole" for someone new to the scene these kind of events can throw up a good diversity styles from all periods and i have to say its at these kind of nights you tend to get younger people ...my eldest son 18 loves the music , he knows more about rare Motown than me but can find some of my rarer Northern stuff a bit hard to get into.

Maybe the answer is as you say for promoters to respond I try and include some rarer stuff in our regular nights and usually find that people are prepared to give it a go even if they dont know it....so maybe to ensure the rare scene does survive it has to move closer to these style of events to ensure its future.....just a thought

Edited February 4, 2007 by jemco

[Trev Thomas]

as a said ken...its never gonna die for the right people...is it??

too right

[Guest kevnewry]

Some good points there Kev, i think at present we almost have a split scene, the traditional rare one and the more popular local nights where we have a mixture of people including ones, generally from the 35 age group up who all got into the scene at different times, some from the really early pre "Northern Soul" era right up to the Stafford era...and are now revisting it again...and some were probably not into it first time round....i personally enjoy both rare and more commercial nights...although people percieve these to be "same ole" for someone new to the scene these kind of events can throw up a good diversity styles from all periods and i have to say its at these kind of nights you tend to get younger people ...my eldest son 18 loves the music , he knows more about rare Motown than me but can find some of my rarer Northern stuff a bit hard to get into.

Maybe the answer is as you say for promoters to respond I try and include some rarer stuff in our regular nights and usually find that people are prepared to give it a go even if they dont know it....so maybe to ensure the rare scene does survive it has to move closer to these style of events to ensure its future.....just a thought

The thing is Jemco, remember way back when we first got into all this we wanted to hear stuff we didnt know,how many times did you come away from a niter asking the question what was that Searling played or words to that effect,dont think we'l ever capture those days again,the scene has moved on. I can understand a lot of people wanting to keep it all underground thats the way it was and it was right at the time we had to discover it for ourselves and we did but that was because we wanted to if you understand me. Different ball game today, i think you're right when you say you have to mix it up now at the nites to keep everyone happy,but i also think we always worry about it's future and it always surprises us with its survival let's just hope it keeps surprising us for years to come.... KTF..Kev

[Guest Matt Male]

To misquote Mark Twain 'Reports of the death of Northern Soul have been greatly exaggerated'

I think things are pretty vibrant at the minute, thousands of internet sites discussing and selling rare soul, plenty of venues (and every time i go out they are always at least half full) and i keep hearing new sounds all the time (new to my ears anyway). This feels like the best it's ever been. I do wonder (not worry) about the ageing crowd, but since i'm a younger soulie (41) it doesn't bother me too much.

I don't understand all this stuff about 'underground' as well. I used to enjoy the supposed exclusivity and 'difference' of the rare soul scene, but that was when i was a teenager in the 80s, when northern was about as unpopular as it has ever been, except perhaps the early 90s. It wasn't underground in the 60s, most of it was in the charts in the US, it wasn't underground in the 70s (Wigan Casino wins best disco on the planet?). When was it ever 'underground'?

Underground just means 'dead and buried' to me.

Edited February 4, 2007 by Matt Male

[Guest Heartandsoul]

Has the bubble burst?

Yes repeatedly to evolve in to the present day situation. I can recall when it was easy to define northern soul in terms of clothes, music, people, venues and even dj's.

Much like an early religion, northern has been carved up by those who want to shape it to suit their own beliefs and needs.

Never before could anyone say that there is a club for everyone. Who would have thought that there would be clubs playing cd's all night with packed dance floors and not a vinyl record in sight behind the dj decks.

There are still the clubs for the purists playing the £1000 records where you can rub shoulders with the elite.

I long to be back in time to some of the old clubs with sweat running down the walls and not a thought for how to get home.

It was inevitable the bubble burst, repeatedly, sometimes for the good, and sometimes for the not so good. Take at look at Barnsley. A new club every month and more on the way. When there are no nights free and the only venues left are scout huts the bubble keeps bursting and new clubs sping up to the amazement of everyone. Each club different and the music ranging from "Classic Northern" to "Calypso"

I think the time has come to define the music and brand the club or the dj with that style. It's taking advantage to attempt to pass some tracks as northern soul (new or old).

Is there anyone brave enough to list or define each type of northern? Do we see it in terms of a central style with a left or right swing? Alternatively, should we say that each style of northern is a descendent of a previous style?

My northern soul orientation is "Club Soul". If it's not a dance record, it doesn't get played. When I say dance, I don't mean that the dance floor looks like a field of waving corn.

Heartandsoul

South Yorkshire

[Guest]

Has the bubble burst?

Yes repeatedly to evolve in to the present day situation. I can recall when it was easy to define northern soul in terms of clothes, music, people, venues and even dj's.

Much like an early religion, northern has been carved up by those who want to shape it to suit their own beliefs and needs.

Never before could anyone say that there is a club for everyone. Who would have thought that there would be clubs playing cd's all night with packed dance floors and not a vinyl record in sight behind the dj decks.

There are still the clubs for the purists playing the £1000 records where you can rub shoulders with the elite.

I long to be back in time to some of the old clubs with sweat running down the walls and not a thought for how to get home.

It was inevitable the bubble burst, repeatedly, sometimes for the good, and sometimes for the not so good. Take at look at Barnsley. A new club every month and more on the way. When there are no nights free and the only venues left are scout huts the bubble keeps bursting and new clubs sping up to the amazement of everyone. Each club different and the music ranging from "Classic Northern" to "Calypso"

I think the time has come to define the music and brand the club or the dj with that style. It's taking advantage to attempt to pass some tracks as northern soul (new or old).

Is there anyone brave enough to list or define each type of northern? Do we see it in terms of a central style with a left or right swing? Alternatively, should we say that each style of northern is a descendent of a previous style?

My northern soul orientation is "Club Soul". If it's not a dance record, it doesn't get played. When I say dance, I don't mean that the dance floor looks like a field of waving corn.

Heartandsoul

South Yorkshire

To quote a well - known long standing / leading and respected DJ :

" The problem we have with the scene at present , is that people are realising what it is all about 30 years later ; In 30 years time , they will realise what it is all about now "

Deep I know , but it does have a point ..... think about it .

Malc Burton

Edited February 4, 2007 by Malc Burton

[Guest]

To quote a well - known long standing / leading and respected DJ :

" The problem we have with the scene at present , is that people are realising what it is all about 30 years later ; In 30 years time , they will realise what it is all about now "

Deep I know , but it does have a point ..... think about it .

Malc Burton

Yes very profound, i agree.....my own view is that the scene is as healthy as it ever was...not the same as it was! that could never be, at present there are many soulnights all over the country offering all kinds of styles, most of them seem quite busy although some of the ones playing the rarer stuff not so busy, which is a shame cos there are plenty of great rarely heard tracks out there for people to discover. i would like to see more djs/promoters catering for these kind of records at the more main stream events, else things could get a bit stale.

My own personal gripe is the ammount and quality of 70s played at the moment at some venues...i am not a against 70s as long as they are danceable and soulful...its just sometimes i look at a dance floor full of people and think...this is just like a pop disco...a well known dj/ collector friend of mine described this phenomenon as "the new handbag sound"...just intrigues me that this is so popular at present as some of it seems so far away from the traditional northern sound.....or maybe i am out of touch

Edited February 4, 2007 by jemco

[Guest Baz]

There is two seperate scenes running and has been for a long time, simple as that one a stale retro scene with people just wanting to hear the same, and be trasported back to their youth, the retro northern scene is IMO pants, but at the same time always will have punters through the doors, they are more mainstream so it attracts a bigger audience, then you have the traveling crowd who go to the top venues places like Middleton ect will always be busy it caters for a wide range of customers, but still keeping in with the original 'ethics' of the northern soul scene, i hate the word but it is one of the more 'upfront' venues along with 100 club/lifeline/wilton to name three the allnighter scene is still buzzing with decent numbers at most venues. i dont think there is much to worry about just yet but failing numbers in local events that are dedicated to the music and not about the rebelion of oh its rare its shite type people and we dont cater for chinstrokers never have got what that is all about because surly if you are a northern soul fan you like to hear good dancable soul music???

Its people like James Trouble and Donna D who are doing whats needed and taking soul music to a younger audience in london and im glad to hear they are doing very well with it

[Guest]

There is two seperate scenes running and has been for a long time, simple as that one a stale retro scene with people just wanting to hear the same, and be trasported back to their youth, the retro northern scene is IMO pants, but at the same time always will have punters through the doors, they are more mainstream so it attracts a bigger audience, then you have the traveling crowd who go to the top venues places like Middleton ect will always be busy it caters for a wide range of customers, but still keeping in with the original 'ethics' of the northern soul scene, i hate the word but it is one of the more 'upfront' venues along with 100 club/lifeline/wilton to name three the allnighter scene is still buzzing with decent numbers at most venues. i dont think there is much to worry about just yet but failing numbers in local events that are dedicated to the music and not about the rebelion of oh its rare its shite type people and we dont cater for chinstrokers never have got what that is all about because surly if you are a northern soul fan you like to hear good dancable soul music???

Its people like James Trouble and Donna D who are doing whats needed and taking soul music to a younger audience in london and im glad to hear they are doing very well with it

Can take on board most of that Baz, and understand that Middleton etc. are well established and attented events...but suprises me that the recent event at LEL St. Ives for instance ,was reported to be poorly attended , even with Soul Sam being there and being well advertised...which is a shame, also the recent night we did at Silks(not! totally upfront) was'nt overly packed despite again being well advertised and also had a big thread on this forum with over a 1000 hits, yes i know we clashed a bit as did St.Ives but the other things on in both cases were not really aimed at the same audiences.....so was just wondering why it seems so hard to get people to these nights ?

[Guest Baz]

yes i know we clashed a bit as did St.Ives but the other things on in both cases were not really aimed at the same audiences.....so was just wondering why it seems so hard to get people to these nights ?

I aint got a clue, its astonishing really, i mean a couple of years ago the scene round this way was buzzing With Lens Embankment doing very well, even Dave Vanner, Tony Parker and myself did a couple of very succesful nights up the diamonds not 'upfront' but was dedicated to a break from the norm so to speak, we've been talking about taking that to another smaller venue but im thinking is it really worth it myself, what with the likes of Embankmet and LEL and your silks night not attracting any major numbers. Personly i think the 'returnee' bubble has burst not the northern bubble, and now there is too many nights compared to the punters who travel about.

[Guest]

I aint got a clue, its astonishing really, i mean a couple of years ago the scene round this way was buzzing With Lens Embankment doing very well, even Dave Vanner, Tony Parker and myself did a couple of very succesful nights up the diamonds not 'upfront' but was dedicated to a break from the norm so to speak, we've been talking about taking that to another smaller venue but im thinking is it really worth it myself, what with the likes of Embankmet and LEL and your silks night not attracting any major numbers. Personly i think the 'returnee' bubble has burst not the northern bubble, and now there is too many nights compared to the punters who travel about.

Can make you wonder i know, but i am determined to make every effort myself to promote something a little different in Northants. and i know Len is supportive..we have a new date for Silks in April..with some interesting djs lined up ....thankfully its not a massive venue so numbers not so important...but hopefully can get a few more there than last time...and a bit more support locally with a bit of luck.

[Guest Baz]

Can make you wonder i know, but i am determined to make every effort myself to promote something a little different in Northants. and i know Len is supportive..we have a new date for Silks in April..with some interesting djs lined up ....thankfully its not a massive venue so numbers not so important...but hopefully can get a few more there than last time...and a bit more support locally with a bit of luck.

it is a nice little venue that, i think the biggest form of attracting a crowd is word of mouth, personly i very rarely pick up or look at flyers any more you can put loads of them out but if no ones actually reading them its not getting the message out, i plan on getting to the next one

[Guest Lynsey_Wez]

hallo, personally, i think one thing that could be done to attract new & younger people to the scene is play music that has bollocks! (pardon the sweary word!)

just fantastic danceable uptempo soul music screaming out of the speakers, it doesnt matter to me whether its 60s or 70s, screamy & raucous or disco typey sounding as long as its good & you can actually dance to it. i dont want to hear mid tempo soul ALL NIGHT LONG.

i have noticed over the last 2/3 years or so that the type/style of music that is played seems to have changed almost completely. It no longer moves on, its dying, there arent many djs that are willing to play records that everyone doesnt already know. it is stuck in a HUGE BORING RUT. there are so many amazing tracks that i dont think ive ever heard out as long as ive been going to northern soul nights/nighters! (which is only about 6/7 years by the way! im only 29!)

WHY has this happened?? i thought DJ's were supposed to keep it alive & moving on & changing, by having the bollocks to play unheard GOOD danceable tracks or underplayed oldies that people know but havent heard for years. even as little as 5 years ago, when id only been going to nighters for a while, i used to hear a song id never heard before that i thought was the absolute dogs...............a song i couldnt forget.........that took me ages to find out the title/artist................storming f**king amazing soul that i just needed to own.

at recent nights/nighters.......from my point of view.......& this happens all to frequently now, infact it happens at 9 out of 10 soul nights........i just cannot get dancing at all, maybe ill dance once or twice in a WHOLE night if im really really lucky. this ruins the night for me, i did actually used to dance alot, but i just cant get into the music like i used to. its either the same monotonous 100 records repeated everywhere, which i am sick to the back teeth of hearing, or what i would call MID TEMPO soul that gives me cramp to dance to because its just far too slow.

i have had conversations with a few people, where they think the music has been Uptempo most of the night & i think it has been mid tempo & have probably heard about 3 uptempo tracks all night (if im lucky).

is this just me?? is this the age gap showing?? its gotten to the stage where we have actually stopped going out to soul nights. whereas we used to be out somewhere every weekend, now its probably only once a month - JUST BECAUSE ITS SO DAMN BORING & PREDICTABLE AT MOST OF THE VENUES NOW. YOU MIGHT AS WELL STAY AT HOME & SAVE YOUR MONEY ITS THE ONLY PLACE YOU WILL HEAR SOMETHING DIFFERENT! I CANNOT TAKE LISTENING TO THE SAME SPOT WEEK IN WEEK OUT ANYMORE - DOESNT MATTER WHERE WE SEEM TO GO...............ITS THE SAME RECORDS. TOTALLY DEPRESSING.

there must be some djs out there that have got the nerve to play a totally different spot of good DANCEABLE soul music?? where are you please? let us know before we just drop out of this stale predictable scene completely.

[Guest Baz]

Lynsey i agree whole hartedly with all of your post

But i do enjoy alot of midtempo and slow records........but not all night

[Guest]

Just did a reply its gone,took at least five mins aswell,here a basic idea of what was wrote........i liked it when clubs were dark and loud the most technical light show was a couple of them neon lights were the only thing you could see was white sox`and smiles,now its like going to the local derby and joan,if i was a yoof i wouldnt want to be hearing people above the music yoofs are on the edge and dont give a fukc about there ears,i know i wasnt........and last off but not least,a book burning might help fukcin`bibles death of the scene,i liked it better when we decided how much somefink is not a book or some CD for trillionairs only,and wigan casino was underground as they get then you asked joe puplic what it was and they wouldnt have a clue,there short lived adventure into commercialism helped loads it drove us bakc underground,no bad thing cause only left with the faithfull.

[Guest]

it is a nice little venue that, i think the biggest form of attracting a crowd is word of mouth, personly i very rarely pick up or look at flyers any more you can put loads of them out but if no ones actually reading them its not getting the message out, i plan on getting to the next one

Be nice to see you there , if you could bring another 30 or so with you that would be great ....must admit most of the people that came to last one were contacted directly or read thread on this forum, so maybe save a bit of money on flyers next time

[Bazza]

Just did a reply its gone,took at least five mins aswell,here a basic idea of what was wrote........i liked it when clubs were dark and loud the most technical light show was a couple of them neon lights were the only thing you could see was white sox`and smiles,now its like going to the local derby and joan,if i was a yoof i wouldnt want to be hearing people above the music yoofs are on the edge and dont give a fukc about there ears,i know i wasnt........and last off but not least,a book burning might help fukcin`bibles death of the scene,i liked it better when we decided how much somefink is not a book or some CD for trillionairs only,and wigan casino was underground as they get then you asked joe puplic what it was and they wouldnt have a clue,there short lived adventure into commercialism helped loads it drove us bakc underground,no bad thing cause only left with the faithfull.

Yeh,I liked it when I was 17/18........but them days are well gone,times change

Bazza

[Guest Lynsey_Wez]

Lynsey i agree whole hartedly with all of your post

But i do enjoy alot of midtempo and slow records........but not all night

glad its not just me!

dont get me wrong, there are lots of mid tempo records i like too, but when im going out i dont want to hear them for 99.9% of the night. i want to hear something that actually makes me want to dance, instead of trying to force myself to dance to sloooooooooooooooooooooow records & ending up limping off the dance floor with the worlds worse case of cramp

[Guest]

Yeh,I liked it when I was 17/18........but them days are well gone,times change

Bazza

What so you cant turn the lights off,and buy a couple of the ultra-violet lights Steve Croft(clifton hall)used to take there own everywere,and a loud system is imposible to get more volume please.

[Guest Lynsey_Wez]

glad its not just me!

dont get me wrong, there are lots of mid tempo records i like too, but when im going out i dont want to hear them for 99.9% of the night. i want to hear something that actually makes me want to dance, instead of trying to force myself to dance to sloooooooooooooooooooooow records & ending up limping off the dance floor with the worlds worse case of cramp

forgot to add: its not the same soul scene we got into. its just............well........becoming immensely boring. boring doesnt make good nights out.

it would be such a shame to completely stop going to soul nights for the reasons i mentioned, because we genuinely both love the music & all nice the people weve met. but how long seriously, can you cope with this shit shit shit shit ultra monotony?

[Guest]

Yeh,I liked it when I was 17/18........but them days are well gone,times change

Bazza

Anyway its not about you or us,its about the youths cause there still 16/17 and dont give a.like you then,........if your gonna be a old man at 40 oddish take your soul down the luncheon club,and give up or get some ear defenders.

Edited February 4, 2007 by ken

[Guest]

glad its not just me!

dont get me wrong, there are lots of mid tempo records i like too, but when im going out i dont want to hear them for 99.9% of the night. i want to hear something that actually makes me want to dance, instead of trying to force myself to dance to sloooooooooooooooooooooow records & ending up limping off the dance floor with the worlds worse case of cramp

[/quote

Agree with the midtempo thing i like quite a lot of it but have always been a fan of the more stomping sounds myself....trouble is i am 43 now and cant keep it up for that long (cue smutty inuendo) on the dance floor , so those midtempo sounds come in handy now and then...plus on balance and maybe cos i am older now i like to see it mixed up more now ...dont know what events you attend but i would have to say that decent djs can gradually bring the pace of music up or down to accentuate the records they play...or at least try...if i heard midtempo all night i think i would fall asleep...but to much fast stuff and i think i would have to go home at 10oclock

[Bazza]

Anyway its not about you or us,its about the youths cause there still 16/17 and dont give a.like you then,........if your gonna be a old man at 40 oddish take your soul down the luncheon club,and give up

what you atticking me for,anyway I was 40 12 years ago,seen a lot of changes,some good ,some not so good,but you have got to admit age does come in to it,I love it all, the rare the oldies bit of modern the 100 mph stompers and the mid tempo stuff,I admit I tend to favour mid tempo and R&B ,but only because I cant do the 100 mph stuff for very long ,getting an old codger ,fact of life Ken

Bazza

[Guest Lynsey_Wez]

lol yes, i also think mid tempo ones come in handy at times...........but just not all the times! i like to hear all different styles......uptempo, R&B, 60s, a few 70s, a few mid tempo..............im just being bitter because it gets on me nerves, that its now mostly mid tempo at most venues weve been to lately.

unfortunately a blinding night out is becoming a rarity, few & far between! inbetween the many, countless, boring, depressing ones.

[Guest]

what you atticking me for,anyway I was 40 12 years ago,seen a lot of changes,some good ,some not so good,but you have got to admit age does come in to it,I love it all, the rare the oldies bit of modern the 100 mph stompers and the mid tempo stuff,I admit I tend to favour mid tempo and R&B ,but only because I cant do the 100 mph stuff for very long ,getting an old codger ,fact of life Ken

Bazza

Yes but not for the younguns`they`re up for a chompin`stompin`allnighter like we was,why should us stand in there way cause its hurtin`you ears or bad knee`s or whatever and you wonder why the kids would rather do something else,like i say if its all too much for ya!ear defenders or go to one of a million soul do`s the cater for the old and infirm(Bisley) only one rule that is a must,the dance floor is king and should be treated as such.

[Bazza]

Yes but not for the younguns`they`re up for a chompin`stompin`allnighter like we was,why should us stand in there way cause its hurtin`you ears or bad knee`s or whatever and you wonder why the kids would rather do something else,like i say if its all too much for ya!ear defenders or go to one of a million soul do`s the cater for the old and infirm(Bisley) only one rule that is a must,the dance floor is king and should be treated as such.

Yes Ken ,I do see what your saying,but in my area ,midlands notts sheffield mansfield rotherham,You do have the choice, some places tend to favour up tempo stompers such as "dendogs do's" rare or underplayed stuff "Attic" ,R&B "No More Doggin" and also places that play the lot "pilsley or annesley" I support em all,dont know what its like "darn sarf " ,but my point is the choice is there..........well up here it is

Bazza

[Guest kevnewry]

These 2 posts imo have hit the nail on the head,totally agree with Lynsey and Jemco 28 years ago we could have threw ourselves about on the dancefloor all nite, its great to get up now to 2 or 3 stompers in a row then just listen and appreciate some of the slower stuff,like Lynsey i like to listen to it but cant dance to it even at 45 i still love the 100mph stuff.Like i said if the mix is right at the venues everybodys happy.Still believe the essence of "Northern" is that fast 4 to the floor beat that makes you stop in your tracks and get onto the floor even if you're stuck in the bog at the time...Kev

[soul45s]

hallo, personally, i think one thing that could be done to attract new & younger people to the scene is play music that has bollocks! (pardon the sweary word!)

just fantastic danceable uptempo soul music screaming out of the speakers, it doesnt matter to me whether its 60s or 70s, screamy & raucous or disco typey sounding as long as its good & you can actually dance to it. i dont want to hear mid tempo soul ALL NIGHT LONG.

i have noticed over the last 2/3 years or so that the type/style of music that is played seems to have changed almost completely. It no longer moves on, its dying, there arent many djs that are willing to play records that everyone doesnt already know. it is stuck in a HUGE BORING RUT. there are so many amazing tracks that i dont think ive ever heard out as long as ive been going to northern soul nights/nighters! (which is only about 6/7 years by the way! im only 29!)

WHY has this happened?? i thought DJ's were supposed to keep it alive & moving on & changing, by having the bollocks to play unheard GOOD danceable tracks or underplayed oldies that people know but havent heard for years. even as little as 5 years ago, when id only been going to nighters for a while, i used to hear a song id never heard before that i thought was the absolute dogs...............a song i couldnt forget.........that took me ages to find out the title/artist................storming f**king amazing soul that i just needed to own.

at recent nights/nighters.......from my point of view.......& this happens all to frequently now, infact it happens at 9 out of 10 soul nights........i just cannot get dancing at all, maybe ill dance once or twice in a WHOLE night if im really really lucky. this ruins the night for me, i did actually used to dance alot, but i just cant get into the music like i used to. its either the same monotonous 100 records repeated everywhere, which i am sick to the back teeth of hearing, or what i would call MID TEMPO soul that gives me cramp to dance to because its just far too slow.

i have had conversations with a few people, where they think the music has been Uptempo most of the night & i think it has been mid tempo & have probably heard about 3 uptempo tracks all night (if im lucky).

is this just me?? is this the age gap showing?? its gotten to the stage where we have actually stopped going out to soul nights. whereas we used to be out somewhere every weekend, now its probably only once a month - JUST BECAUSE ITS SO DAMN BORING & PREDICTABLE AT MOST OF THE VENUES NOW. YOU MIGHT AS WELL STAY AT HOME & SAVE YOUR MONEY ITS THE ONLY PLACE YOU WILL HEAR SOMETHING DIFFERENT! I CANNOT TAKE LISTENING TO THE SAME SPOT WEEK IN WEEK OUT ANYMORE - DOESNT MATTER WHERE WE SEEM TO GO...............ITS THE SAME RECORDS. TOTALLY DEPRESSING.

there must be some djs out there that have got the nerve to play a totally different spot of good DANCEABLE soul music?? where are you please? let us know before we just drop out of this stale predictable scene completely.

Hi Wez n Linsey

Long time no see, hope you are both well?

Great post, I agree with the majority of your comments, although I love the mid tempo stuff!

A crowd of us used to attend the various monthly venues and it just got so predictable for most of em, a waste of time & money, we felt the promoters were taking the piss, so we voted with our feet and just stopped going.

Hope to catch up soon

All the best

Paul (Bradford)

[Guest]

A crowd of us used to attend the various monthly venues and it just got so predictable for most of em, a waste of time & money, we felt the promoters were taking the piss, so we voted with our feet and just stopped going.

I agree! whilst its fair to say certain venues have a few fave plays , really my rule is , unless you are trying to popularise a certain record, you should not need to play the same tune at the next few dates at least, if a dj knows his stuff he should keep it fresh, there are so many good tunes out there that are waiting to be aired....as a dj you have to have courage in your convictions and play them.

Far to often to much emphasis is placed on packing the floor, hence the same tunes over and over again....i get the biggest kick when djing by playing something that gets a bit of action from the start and then by the end of the tune has a healthy floor...shows you have got through , so to speak.

as you say people vote with there feet, its a British thing! as a promoter its not what people say to your face thats so important , but what they dont is..

Edited February 5, 2007 by jemco

[KevH]

Yes Ken ,I do see what your saying,but in my area ,midlands notts sheffield mansfield rotherham,You do have the choice, some places tend to favour up tempo stompers such as "dendogs do's" rare or underplayed stuff "Attic" ,R&B "No More Doggin" and also places that play the lot "pilsley or annesley" I support em all,dont know what its like "darn sarf " ,but my point is the choice is there..........well up here it is

Bazza

hi Bazza ,thanks for the mention on this thread,we are trying to keep things interesting at the Attic,and understand people's concern that the "bubble may be bursting",that's why we've set ourselves up .( to be shot at ).

Don't think ,IMO ,the "bubble will burst"....too many "bubbles" around for all to fail!!!,,,KEV.

[Guest]

If you were at Cleethorpes reunion Saturday, your question would have been answered..

Running out steam??...it was more like lots of bodies creating a whole lot of steam!

[Jimmy A]

hallo, personally, i think one thing that could be done to attract new & younger people to the scene is play music that has bollocks! (pardon the sweary word!)

just fantastic danceable uptempo soul music screaming out of the speakers, it doesnt matter to me whether its 60s or 70s, screamy & raucous or disco typey sounding as long as its good & you can actually dance to it. i dont want to hear mid tempo soul ALL NIGHT LONG.

i have noticed over the last 2/3 years or so that the type/style of music that is played seems to have changed almost completely. It no longer moves on, its dying, there arent many djs that are willing to play records that everyone doesnt already know. it is stuck in a HUGE BORING RUT. there are so many amazing tracks that i dont think ive ever heard out as long as ive been going to northern soul nights/nighters! (which is only about 6/7 years by the way! im only 29!)

WHY has this happened?? i thought DJ's were supposed to keep it alive & moving on & changing, by having the bollocks to play unheard GOOD danceable tracks or underplayed oldies that people know but havent heard for years. even as little as 5 years ago, when id only been going to nighters for a while, i used to hear a song id never heard before that i thought was the absolute dogs...............a song i couldnt forget.........that took me ages to find out the title/artist................storming f**king amazing soul that i just needed to own.

at recent nights/nighters.......from my point of view.......& this happens all to frequently now, infact it happens at 9 out of 10 soul nights........i just cannot get dancing at all, maybe ill dance once or twice in a WHOLE night if im really really lucky. this ruins the night for me, i did actually used to dance alot, but i just cant get into the music like i used to. its either the same monotonous 100 records repeated everywhere, which i am sick to the back teeth of hearing, or what i would call MID TEMPO soul that gives me cramp to dance to because its just far too slow.

i have had conversations with a few people, where they think the music has been Uptempo most of the night & i think it has been mid tempo & have probably heard about 3 uptempo tracks all night (if im lucky).

is this just me?? is this the age gap showing?? its gotten to the stage where we have actually stopped going out to soul nights. whereas we used to be out somewhere every weekend, now its probably only once a month - JUST BECAUSE ITS SO DAMN BORING & PREDICTABLE AT MOST OF THE VENUES NOW. YOU MIGHT AS WELL STAY AT HOME & SAVE YOUR MONEY ITS THE ONLY PLACE YOU WILL HEAR SOMETHING DIFFERENT! I CANNOT TAKE LISTENING TO THE SAME SPOT WEEK IN WEEK OUT ANYMORE - DOESNT MATTER WHERE WE SEEM TO GO...............ITS THE SAME RECORDS. TOTALLY DEPRESSING.

there must be some djs out there that have got the nerve to play a totally different spot of good DANCEABLE soul music?? where are you please? let us know before we just drop out of this stale predictable scene completely.

totally 100% spot on

[Guest ScooterNik]

When did "mid-tempo" become a euphamism for "slow"? I'm 42, I've knackered knees but I can't dance to "mid-tempo" stuff, my feet always want to do double time

It looks to me like we could do with in effect "wiping the slate clean" and try to forget that most of us have heard a lot of what are considered oldies (aren't they all when you stop an think about it? ) down the years and give some of the best a new lease of life?

If, in an attempt to capture the imagination of some of the younger soul fans, we have to stop looking at the rarest-of-the-rare stuff and get some quality £20 - £50 tracks played then why not? Apart from anything else there must by now be thousands of forgotten oldies that would be nice to hear again anyway? I know when I started listening to Northern in the early 80s EVERYTHING was new to me, and I loved the whole thing - I was a regular at both Morecambe Pier and Stafford nighters, with trips to as many soul clubs as I could manage - as the sounds were all fresh TO ME. I wasn't interested that (for example) an early favourite, The Drifters "You Got to Pay Your Dues" was considered a played out oldie. I loved it, and still do TBH, and it fired my interest as it was new to me at the time.

This is one of the reasons I stopped attending first nighters, and then soul do's, some years ago... it was getting too "Can't play that, it was played twice at Wigan in the mid 70s" about records when the tune was still a cracking record, no matter how much history it had, but they'd play some crap disco lite record that was important because it was rare. Never mind that it wasn't as good a record... it was rare.

I've nothing against the rare soul scene, without it we wouldn't be where we are today, but feel that generally there is still too much emphasis placed on a records "newness" and not enough placed on the quality.

Just my 2p worth.

[Guest Brian Ellis]

hallo, personally, i think one thing that could be done to attract new & younger people to the scene is play music that has bollocks! (pardon the sweary word!)

just fantastic danceable uptempo soul music screaming out of the speakers, it doesnt matter to me whether its 60s or 70s, screamy & raucous or disco typey sounding as long as its good & you can actually dance to it. i dont want to hear mid tempo soul ALL NIGHT LONG.

i have noticed over the last 2/3 years or so that the type/style of music that is played seems to have changed almost completely. It no longer moves on, its dying, there arent many djs that are willing to play records that everyone doesnt already know. it is stuck in a HUGE BORING RUT. there are so many amazing tracks that i dont think ive ever heard out as long as ive been going to northern soul nights/nighters! (which is only about 6/7 years by the way! im only 29!)

WHY has this happened?? i thought DJ's were supposed to keep it alive & moving on & changing, by having the bollocks to play unheard GOOD danceable tracks or underplayed oldies that people know but havent heard for years. even as little as 5 years ago, when id only been going to nighters for a while, i used to hear a song id never heard before that i thought was the absolute dogs...............a song i couldnt forget.........that took me ages to find out the title/artist................storming f**king amazing soul that i just needed to own.

at recent nights/nighters.......from my point of view.......& this happens all to frequently now, infact it happens at 9 out of 10 soul nights........i just cannot get dancing at all, maybe ill dance once or twice in a WHOLE night if im really really lucky. this ruins the night for me, i did actually used to dance alot, but i just cant get into the music like i used to. its either the same monotonous 100 records repeated everywhere, which i am sick to the back teeth of hearing, or what i would call MID TEMPO soul that gives me cramp to dance to because its just far too slow.

i have had conversations with a few people, where they think the music has been Uptempo most of the night & i think it has been mid tempo & have probably heard about 3 uptempo tracks all night (if im lucky).

is this just me?? is this the age gap showing?? its gotten to the stage where we have actually stopped going out to soul nights. whereas we used to be out somewhere every weekend, now its probably only once a month - JUST BECAUSE ITS SO DAMN BORING & PREDICTABLE AT MOST OF THE VENUES NOW. YOU MIGHT AS WELL STAY AT HOME & SAVE YOUR MONEY ITS THE ONLY PLACE YOU WILL HEAR SOMETHING DIFFERENT! I CANNOT TAKE LISTENING TO THE SAME SPOT WEEK IN WEEK OUT ANYMORE - DOESNT MATTER WHERE WE SEEM TO GO...............ITS THE SAME RECORDS. TOTALLY DEPRESSING.

there must be some djs out there that have got the nerve to play a totally different spot of good DANCEABLE soul music?? where are you please? let us know before we just drop out of this stale predictable scene completely.

Hi Lynsey

Some interesting points raised in your post.

Seems to me that your definition of uptempo and midtempo might be quite different to mine (and others) - not sure we could come ever up with a standard definition. Would be good to know what you class as 'uptempo' and 'midtempo' so we have something to compare with. I know that stuff I regarded as midtempo in the late 60s/early 70s is definitely starting to sound uptempo now!!

For what it's worth, and completely off the top of my head, I regard these as 'uptempo'

Conquistadors - Sadness and Madness

Coasters - Crazy Baby

The Tempos - (Countdown) here I come

Jay & the Techniques - Apples, Peaches, Pumpkin Pie

and the following as 'midtempo'

Bobby Sheen - Something new to do

Bettye Swan - Make me yours

Barbara Lyn - Trying to love two

Marvin & Tammi - Ain't nothing like the real thing.

How would you rate these against your view of 'uptempo' and 'midtempo'. Perhaps you can give us something to go on?

And anyone else?

Brian

[Guest]

When did "mid-tempo" become a euphamism for "slow"? I'm 42, I've knackered knees but I can't dance to "mid-tempo" stuff, my feet always want to do double time

It looks to me like we could do with in effect "wiping the slate clean" and try to forget that most of us have heard a lot of what are considered oldies (aren't they all when you stop an think about it? ) down the years and give some of the best a new lease of life?

If, in an attempt to capture the imagination of some of the younger soul fans, we have to stop looking at the rarest-of-the-rare stuff and get some quality £20 - £50 tracks played then why not? Apart from anything else there must by now be thousands of forgotten oldies that would be nice to hear again anyway? I know when I started listening to Northern in the early 80s EVERYTHING was new to me, and I loved the whole thing - I was a regular at both Morecambe Pier and Stafford nighters, with trips to as many soul clubs as I could manage - as the sounds were all fresh TO ME. I wasn't interested that (for example) an early favourite, The Drifters "You Got to Pay Your Dues" was considered a played out oldie. I loved it, and still do TBH, and it fired my interest as it was new to me at the time.

This is one of the reasons I stopped attending first nighters, and then soul do's, some years ago... it was getting too "Can't play that, it was played twice at Wigan in the mid 70s" about records when the tune was still a cracking record, no matter how much history it had, but they'd play some crap disco lite record that was important because it was rare. Never mind that it wasn't as good a record... it was rare.

I've nothing against the rare soul scene, without it we wouldn't be where we are today, but feel that generally there is still too much emphasis placed on a records "newness" and not enough placed on the quality.

Just my 2p worth.

Think you have made a lot of valid points there ....there are many promoters putting nights on around the country that seem to lean one way musically either rare, modern, oldies, r&b etc......nothing wrong in this, but because they specialize sometimes numbers attending can be low.....so anyone new to the venue can be a bit put off if the place looks half empty...if you are young and fancy a night out , on the whole a busier atmosphere is more attractive for most.

I think the best way to keep the scene going for future generations is to try and stage events with djs that offer a wide choice of styles ,hopefully this will encourage people to try it out....I do find it a bit worrying when we seem to have some people dividing up the scene rare V oldies V modern etc.....imagine someone new to it all they could be put off at the first hurdle!

There has got to be room for all styles, thats evoloution your not gonna stop it but there is no reason they should'nt be played under one roof ,i know that there are promoters putting on events like this already and respect to them. the specialized events should benefit as well as the more people you can attract to the scene the more people will discover their favourite type of sound...ie: one event should feed another .......i would add this is all in a perfect world .i know ......but you gotta keep trying

Edited February 5, 2007 by jemco