Which B.V's?

[Johnny Corsair]

Can anyone help?

Wilson Pickett's: Let Me Your Boy (1962) has different accounts of the women singing behind him; either The Primettes - soon to be The Supremes or; The Andantes - Motown's house B.V's. Any one know for sure? The song will be on my podcast at some point soon and wanted to give the right credit where credit is due.

Thanks,

Johnny

 

 

 

 

 

[Chalky]

Primettes as far as I know, he knew Flo and Mary from school.  

Edited June 25, 2021 by Chalky

[Blackpoolsoul]

2 hours ago, Johnny Corsair said:

Can anyone help?

Wilson Pickett's: Let Me Your Boy (1962) has different accounts of the women singing behind him; either The Primettes - soon to be The Supremes or; The Andantes - Motown's house B.V's. Any one know for sure? The song will be on my podcast at some point soon and wanted to give the right credit where credit is due.

Thanks,

Johnny

 

 

 

 

 

I assume the confusion comes from the CD ?

And then this

Pickett’s debut, solo, 45 “Let Me Be Your Boy”, recorded in 1961 and released in March 1962 on the Detroit Correc-Tone label. It was pressed at Columbia’s Chicago plant alongside Motown labels  Miracle, Gordy and Tamla which is quite fitting since the Supremes can be heard on backing vocals. “Let Me Be Your Boy” was subsequently released on the Cub label for wider distribution before eventually being acquired by Verve in ’66 who also gave it a UK release on their MGM imprint. Today PolyGram Records Inc 

https://www.northernsouldirect.co.uk/shop/7-vinyl/wilson-pickett-let-me-be-your-boy-june-arthur-alexander-the-girl-that-radiates-that-charm-45-outta-sight-7-vinyl/

Edited June 25, 2021 by Blackpoolsoul

[Johnny Corsair]

Thanks to you both for replying.

No, the confusion wasn’t the CD sleeve’s ‘either or’ information (or lack of!) but thanks for that - it stemmed from reading earlier about the song and most sources say The Primettes but on a very comprehensive website about the label: Correct-Tone it states the Andantes?
It’s interesting though when a record label puts out a CD(or re-issues it) that one assumes they go to a fair degree of trouble to get the facts and personnel etc so it could be in this case there’s nothing/or nobody out there to nail this one down? And in some ways it’s quite appealing if there’s still an uncertainty. Currently I lean toward The Primettes.

[Chalky]

I read Mary said they sang backing for him.  

[Tony Turner]

What price would you put on an Ex Correctone copy nowadays?

[The Yank]

For more info, there is a thread on SS from April titled "Wilson Pickett- Supremes" in the Look At Your Box section.

Edited June 25, 2021 by The Yank

[Johnny Corsair]

11 minutes ago, The Yank said:

For more info, there is a thread on SS from April titled "Wilson Pickett- Supremes" in the Look At Your Box section.

 Many thanks for that thread. Not just more info but even better...the answer - The Primettes. 

[David Meikle]

7 hours ago, Johnny Corsair said:

Can anyone help?

Wilson Pickett's: Let Me Your Boy (1962) has different accounts of the women singing behind him; either The Primettes - soon to be The Supremes or; The Andantes - Motown's house B.V's. Any one know for sure? The song will be on my podcast at some point soon and wanted to give the right credit where credit is due.

Thanks,

Johnny

 

 

 

 

 

You can trust Graham Finch for the answer. 

https://soulfuldetroit.com/web16-correctone/index.html

click link to get to page two where you will find the answer.

There is more info later in the webisode too.

Edited June 25, 2021 by David Meikle
link failed

[Johnny Corsair]

43 minutes ago, David Meikle said:

You can trust Graham Finch for the answer. 

https://soulfuldetroit.com/web16-correctone/index.html

click link to get to page two where you will find the answer.

There is more info later in the webisode too.

Thanks David. It’s Graham Finch’s web page which I was referring to in my post earlier ( but not by name)  I don’t know him so I take your word he’s to be trusted. As soon as one does that though it calls into question what RobbK says via The Yank link. Which is sort of where I came in. This is not who kidnapped Shergar I know but it’s the sort of thing I like, if possible, to get to the bottom of. If we could just call up a surviving Primette or Adante - then we/I should have the answer. Fun eh? 

[David Meikle]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Corsair said:

Thanks David. It’s Graham Finch’s web page which I was referring to in my post earlier ( but not by name)  I don’t know him so I take your word he’s to be trusted. As soon as one does that though it calls into question what RobbK says via The Yank link. Which is sort of where I came in. This is not who kidnapped Shergar I know but it’s the sort of thing I like, if possible, to get to the bottom of. If we could just call up a surviving Primette or Adante - then we/I should have the answer. Fun eh? 

Graham lived in Windsor for a considerable length of time and interviewed many music people during that period. He also spent many a day with Robert Bateman who did A&R on the record. Robb knows Graham so try a PM for some clarification.

[Johnny Corsair]

Cheers Graham - valuable info. I will PM. 

Apologies. Cheers David - looking at too many names. 

[David Meikle]

17 minutes ago, Johnny Corsair said:

Thanks David. It’s Graham Finch’s web page which I was referring to in my post earlier ( but not by name)  I don’t know him so I take your word he’s to be trusted. As soon as one does that though it calls into question what RobbK says via The Yank link. Which is sort of where I came in. This is not who kidnapped Shergar I know but it’s the sort of thing I like, if possible, to get to the bottom of. If we could just call up a surviving Primette or Adante - then we/I should have the answer. Fun eh? 

Graham took this photograph of Robert in downtown Detroit after yet another interview.

[Johnny Corsair]

I have moved the song into August’s show playlist allowing more time for detective work!

I haven’t got the Florence Ballard book -whether it crops up in that? 

I will report back!

Thanks again to all for useful & prompt interest and info. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Johnny Corsair

[Blackpoolsoul]

18 hours ago, Johnny Corsair said:

Thanks to you both for replying.

No, the confusion wasn’t the CD sleeve’s ‘either or’ information (or lack of!) but thanks for that - it stemmed from reading earlier about the song and most sources say The Primettes but on a very comprehensive website about the label: Correct-Tone it states the Andantes?
It’s interesting though when a record label puts out a CD(or re-issues it) that one assumes they go to a fair degree of trouble to get the facts and personnel etc so it could be in this case there’s nothing/or nobody out there to nail this one down? And in some ways it’s quite appealing if there’s still an uncertainty. Currently I lean toward The Primettes.

I understood (read somewhere) The Primates changed name in 1961 to The Supremes when Berry signed them

Edited June 26, 2021 by Blackpoolsoul

[Johnny Corsair]

Yes, the other thread in the Look In Your Box was actually about whether the Primettes /Supremes were moonlighting while backing Wilson Pickett i.e were they actually signed to Motown at the time.  The response indicates it was this group of woman and not The Andantes but as I’ve mentioned and David has supplied the source website info on The Correct- Tone it states it’s The Andantes. 
 

[Chalky]

I have to say, listening to LMBYB it dopes sound like Flo and Diana in places.  

One source I've read states the Andantes didn't form until 1962 and LMBYB was a 1961 recording?

[Chalky]

Topic from the SoulfulDetroit forum...

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?9990-Supremes-Primettes-Backing-Vocals

[Johnny Corsair]

Thanks very much Chalky. And I said I would do the detective work but clearly have a great team here.
Although there are references to The Andantes doing some b.v’s at Motown in the summer of ‘61 and replacing a member. But until I PM certain people like Graham the evidence for The Primettes is in greater supply. 
I suppose as long as the right group of woman got the pay cheque is the essential thing. 

[David Meikle]

I’m just realising what a difficult subject this is.

I’ve skimmed over the early part of Florence Ballard’s book and there is no mention of Correc-tone. The book was written by a third party long after Florence's death however.

According to that book Primettes did bv’s for Pickett at Robert West’s Lupine label.

Secondly, as you can see from Graham’s sources, Robb Klein helped with audio files etc. when this was uploaded to SoulfulDetroit. I know that Robb is a keen and knowledgeable part of our scene but I am surprised that he did not ask Graham for clarification on his Andantes notes. Not criticising Robb just wondering.

On a lighter note I found an old article I had written about Robert West on SD and to my surprise I said that Primettes did backgrounds for Correc-tone. LOL. That was written before Graham’s excellent article.

The list of people Graham interviewed is impressive and he never put pen to paper without asking the same question to all interviewees. But passage of time clouds peoples memories and unless someone has the master tape of that wonderful song the mystery goes on.

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by David Meikle
spelling

[Chalky]

In the book written by Tony Fletcher "In The Midnight Hour", which I've just pulled off the shelf it is said the Andantes were the backing vocals for the Correc-tone 45.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Chalky

[Johnny Corsair]

Sorry chaps, never thought this water would get this muddy! 
Thanks for your sustained interest. 
I can see now why that CD sleevenotes ( pictures earlier) hedges it’s bets and says either vocal group. So, would I at the moment if I was writing them! 

[Blackpoolsoul]

15 minutes ago, Johnny Corsair said:

Sorry chaps, never thought this water would get this muddy! 
Thanks for your sustained interest. 
I can see now why that CD sleevenotes ( pictures earlier) hedges it’s bets and says either vocal group. So, would I at the moment if I was writing them! 

Here is where I read about The Primettes

With Barbara Diane Martin as their new fourth, "The Primettes" returned to Motown on a regular basis, constantly waiting for their chance at fame. They would catch the bus every day and hang around the offices admiring their more-established future label-mates recording and walking through the lobby. On several occasions they were lucky enough to be permitted to perform hand-claps, foot-stomps, and even background vocals for other artists such as Mabel John, and Mary Wells. Berry Gordy finally signed the group to Motown in 1961, however not as "The Primettes." He requested that they find a new name for themselves as no one even knew what a "Primette" was. Florence Ballard was given a list of names to choose from that included such monikers as "The Sweet P's," "The Jewelettes," "The Darleens," and "The Supremes" among others. She chose the name "Supremes" because it was different, and didn't have an "ettes" at the end of it. Initially her group-mates were keen on the idea of being called "The Supremes" as they thought it sounded too masculine (a male group from the 50's had been named "The Supremes" and Ruby & The Romantics (featuring three male vocalists) had been called "The Supremes" as well.) However, despite their disappointment, the girls began recording a variety of songs by producers such as Smokey Robinson and Berry Gordy. A handful of these tracks would eventually make up The Supremes' first album, 1962's "Meet The Supremes." However, The Supremes that appeared on the cover of the LP was a trio as Martin left in the spring of 1962.

As you state thing get forgotten twisted even lied about over time so who knows

https://thesupremes.fandom.com/wiki/The_Primettes

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Johnny Corsair said:

Sorry chaps, never thought this water would get this muddy! 
Thanks for your sustained interest. 
I can see now why that CD sleevenotes ( pictures earlier) hedges it’s bets and says either vocal group. So, would I at the moment if I was writing them! 

Don't be sorry, it's good to get a topic of interest that takes a bit of research.  

[The Yank]

Not sure about the Andantes theory- listen to them backing Amos Milburn about a year later. There's a huge difference between the backing vocalists on "Let Me Be Your Boy" and this group- 

 

[Johnny Corsair]

Agreed. There’s one website that says Andantes and Tony Fletcher’s book but  more evidence written and actual singing which says or leans towards The Primettes. 
This might run & run...

Edited June 26, 2021 by Johnny Corsair

[Chalky]

I personally think sounds more like The Supremes

[David Meikle]

6 hours ago, Chalky said:

I have to say, listening to LMBYB it dopes sound like Flo and Diana in places.  

One source I've read states the Andantes didn't form until 1962 and LMBYB was a 1961 recording?

Popcorn took Andantes with him to Motown in 1959. He knew them in 1958 when they were singing in Northwestern HS. See link Lorraine Chandler and Dave Moore para 6.

Also see this.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/143026053/judith-marlene-barrow_tate

Edited June 26, 2021 by David Meikle
added second link