Pete S Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 You've all seen the clips I've been putting up on YouTube for a few months now. This was suggested to me today by someone on here, I won't say who, and it is a really good suggestion but I thought I would ask you lot what you think because I know for a fact someone is going to yell BOOTLEG! Pete You have over 200 clips on YouTube, here's a thought. Publish a list and ask people to select, say 25, from then list If you can remove the you tube graphics etc (which I can because I have the original clips) you'll then have a unique DVD per customer. Most of this stuff ain't gonna come out 'together' ie All the 'preferred clips' on one DVD. I'd be more than happy to pay say 20 quid for one. In fact I'd probably buy more than one. I know you've done stiuf with clips before, but I can't remember seeing clips of artists grouped together from you before. Just an idea Mate.
Bazza Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 You've all seen the clips I've been putting up on YouTube for a few months now. This was suggested to me today by someone on here, I won't say who, and it is a really good suggestion but I thought I would ask you lot what you think because I know for a fact someone is going to yell BOOTLEG! Pete You have over 200 clips on YouTube, here's a thought. Publish a list and ask people to select, say 25, from then list If you can remove the you tube graphics etc (which I can because I have the original clips) you'll then have a unique DVD per customer. Most of this stuff ain't gonna come out 'together' ie All the 'preferred clips' on one DVD. I'd be more than happy to pay say 20 quid for one. In fact I'd probably buy more than one. I know you've done stiuf with clips before, but I can't remember seeing clips of artists grouped together from you before. Just an idea Mate. I think its great idea,love them old clips,I would have a couple Bazza
Guest ScooterNik Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 Nothing to stop you ripping the clips you like and doing it yourself though if you have the right software. Not sure that would be fair, but the fact is there. I couldn't be bothered myself though, and I've no intention of mentioning which free software will rip the films.
Pete S Posted January 30, 2007 Author Posted January 30, 2007 Nothing to stop you ripping the clips you like and doing it yourself though if you have the right software. Not sure that would be fair, but the fact is there. I couldn't be bothered myself though, and I've no intention of mentioning which free software will rip the films. Yes but I'm talking about making the discs up from the originals, don't forget I reduced the quality to put them on to youtube quite considerably. I have no problem with anyone taking the clips. It's just that a lot of people don't have the time or the patience to download, convert from flv, burn onto disc etc.
Guest melandthensome Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 I would buy from you pete I think its a good idea........
Pete S Posted January 30, 2007 Author Posted January 30, 2007 That's a lot of work for you though isn't it? I never thought of that!
Lloydee Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 I'd rather see Pete's original films/clips then the slightly poor quality that end up on U-Hose. Go on Pete, you know ya wanna
Pete S Posted January 30, 2007 Author Posted January 30, 2007 I'd rather see Pete's original films/clips then the slightly poor quality that end up on U-Hose. Go on Pete, you know ya wanna Done your film by the way, just not posted cos run out of jiffy bag things!
Guest YKSoulMan Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 Count me in Pete, you're other DVD's always go down well at the YKSoul Charity nights so a few new ones will make a pleasant change. Steve B
Ady Croasdell Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 As you so rightly say Pete it would be a bootleg, assuming you don't own or have leased the rights to the film, recordings and songs. If you did it for costs i doubt if many people would be upset, if you sold for profit what you don't have rights to, they may be more upset. However I believe you have done it in the past so why run it by us now? You're not developing a social conscience are you?
Guest lagerlout Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 yeah great idea id have one,straight away. put me down for 1 when it comes off pete.
Guest Paul Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 Hello Pete, It's difficult because there are numerous copyrights involved in each clip - dramatic rights, using names and likenesses, reproduction of embodied sound recordings and the mechanical reproduction of songs. In most cases you'd need licenses from at least three different sources for each clip. Differrent rules would apply if the music was only used for incidental background purposes or if you were using very short portions of sound recordings. Having said that, I don't think anyone would take action if you only made a few copies for "historic interest" to share with a few friends, as opposed to selling copies to members of the public with the intention of making a profit. But the BIGGEST problem here, Pete, is that you can't really control what your "friends" do with their "free" copies - and there is a danger you could be held legally responsible (at least to some degree). Paul Mooney
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 As you so rightly say Pete it would be a bootleg, assuming you don't own or have leased the rights to the film, recordings and songs. If you did it for costs i doubt if many people would be upset, if you sold for profit what you don't have rights to, they may be more upset. However I believe you have done it in the past so why run it by us now? You're not developing a social conscience are you? You always focus one one particular thing but totally miss the point that if I (and one or two others) hadn't collected video clips since the early 80's, nobody would be seeing any of these clips anyway. Which way do you want it? £10 to me and material everyone can see, or nothing for anyone?
45cellar Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 (edited) You've all seen the clips I've been putting up on YouTube for a few months now. This was suggested to me today by someone on here, I won't say who, and it is a really good suggestion but I thought I would ask you lot what you think because I know for a fact someone is going to yell BOOTLEG! Pete You have over 200 clips on YouTube, here's a thought. Publish a list and ask people to select, say 25, from then list If you can remove the you tube graphics etc (which I can because I have the original clips) you'll then have a unique DVD per customer. Most of this stuff ain't gonna come out 'together' ie All the 'preferred clips' on one DVD. I'd be more than happy to pay say 20 quid for one. In fact I'd probably buy more than one. I know you've done stiuf with clips before, but I can't remember seeing clips of artists grouped together from you before. Just an idea Mate. Hi Pete Sounds like a Good Idea to me Edited February 1, 2007 by 45cellar
Guest Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 You always focus one one particular thing but totally miss the point that if I (and one or two others) hadn't collected video clips since the early 80's, nobody would be seeing any of these clips anyway. Which way do you want it? £10 to me and material everyone can see, or nothing for anyone? Pete, I like the clips that you put up and in a way agree that it's a shame that the only way you can see them is because a few people have collected them over the years, but your comment above sounds like the typical defence of bootleggers all over the scene. Imagine your own reaction if Amnesia records came on here and said the same thing about the records they are ripping off.
Bazza Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Pete, I like the clips that you put up and in a way agree that it's a shame that the only way you can see them is because a few people have collected them over the years, but your comment above sounds like the typical defence of bootleggers all over the scene. Imagine your own reaction if Amnesia records came on here and said the same thing about the records they are ripping off. I am no expert on the law,but I feel if these clips are not available to buy commercially from any source,then I would not feel I was ripping any one off,I am not taking money from them ,a grey area I admit Bazza
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 Pete, I like the clips that you put up and in a way agree that it's a shame that the only way you can see them is because a few people have collected them over the years, but your comment above sounds like the typical defence of bootleggers all over the scene. Imagine your own reaction if Amnesia records came on here and said the same thing about the records they are ripping off. But 95% of these clips are lost - literally - they are not owned by anyone, unlike a Barbara McNair Motown recording. I repeat...if I, and others, hadn't sourced these, you would never have seen them. You can't have it both ways. Anyway, like I said, it was a suggestion that someone put to me and I'm just passing it on. My hands are full enough selling original records anyway. (records that artists don't receive royalties on by the way)
Dave Moore Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Pete, Here's idea. If an artist is due a 2% royalty (not sure on figures, but you get my drift), you could donate that amount to a musical charity. That way : 1. People get to see the clips. 2. Some type of musical people/project/artists benefit. 3. You maintain your credibilty. Just an idea. The argument "You can't control what people do with the clips" is complete bunkum in my opinion. CD swaps etc are exactly the same. I know guys that have 1000s of tracks from CD swaps/downloads/etcs and haven't paid a penny for them. Some of them the same people that cry "foul" everytime a bootleg appears. Regards, Dave www.theresthatbeat.com www.hitsvillesoulclub.com
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 Pete, Here's idea. If an artist is due a 2% royalty (not sure on figures, but you get my drift), you could donate that amount to a musical charity. That way : 1. People get to see the clips. 2. Some type of musical people/project/artists benefit. 3. You maintain your credibilty. Just an idea. The argument "You can't control what people do with the clips" is complete bunkum in my opinion. CD swaps etc are exactly the same. I know guys that have 1000s of tracks from CD swaps/downloads/etcs and haven't paid a penny for them. Some of them the same people that cry "foul" everytime a bootleg appears. Regards, Dave www.theresthatbeat.com www.hitsvillesoulclub.com Dave, thanks for the ideas mate. But it's all going to bring hassle down on me so I'm not going to persue it or argue with record company types.
Hold Tight Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 But 95% of these clips are lost - literally - they are not owned by anyone, unlike a Barbara McNair Motown recording. I repeat...if I, and others, hadn't sourced these, you would never have seen them. You can't have it both ways. Anyway, like I said, it was a suggestion that someone put to me and I'm just passing it on. My hands are full enough selling original records anyway. (records that artists don't receive royalties on by the way) The bit I have highlighted in bold has always amazed me and is probably for another thread if it has'nt already been done to death. The northern scene is inundated with boots from all over and people do moan, rightly or wrongly ( I am not passing judgement ) but they are quite happy to sell a record they paid a small sum for, for many times there original investment in it. The points are; the artist and recording company do not recieve any uplift from that value, and second that the taxman doesn't get a share( his own tough luck) but if you sold enough in one tax year you may be liable for capital gains surely. Anyway no hijacking. Good points on lost treasures though Pete.
Ady Croasdell Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 You always focus one one particular thing but totally miss the point that if I (and one or two others) hadn't collected video clips since the early 80's, nobody would be seeing any of these clips anyway. Which way do you want it? £10 to me and material everyone can see, or nothing for anyone? I didn't miss the point at all, you asked what would people's reactions be and I gave you mine. I focused on three things and the fact you got hold of the tapes is one other thing. I've got recordings of the Family from Colour Me Pop and hundreds of acetates no-one else has but I wouldn't release them for profit until I'd sorted the right people out. I don't particularly want it any way I was responding to your invitation to comment. I think I stated a preference that a lot people on here would prefer.
Ady Croasdell Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 But 95% of these clips are lost - literally - they are not owned by anyone, unlike a Barbara McNair Motown recording. I repeat...if I, and others, hadn't sourced these, you would never have seen them. You can't have it both ways. Anyway, like I said, it was a suggestion that someone put to me and I'm just passing it on. My hands are full enough selling original records anyway. (records that artists don't receive royalties on by the way) How many times: the artists got (or should have) their royalties first time around on the first pressing and should get them each time they are subsequently reproduced for sale.
Ady Croasdell Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 The bit I have highlighted in bold has always amazed me and is probably for another thread if it has'nt already been done to death. The northern scene is inundated with boots from all over and people do moan, rightly or wrongly ( I am not passing judgement ) but they are quite happy to sell a record they paid a small sum for, for many times there original investment in it. The points are; the artist and recording company do not recieve any uplift from that value, and second that the taxman doesn't get a share( his own tough luck) but if you sold enough in one tax year you may be liable for capital gains surely. Anyway no hijacking. Good points on lost treasures though Pete. The bit that gets me is when a UK dealer tracks down an artist, writer or producer and gets some great records off them but only gives them as little as possible. Personally I think they should give at least 50% of the current value. it's different if it's a dealer or collector, they're in the same game and it's up to them to judge the price, but to tell an artist they think they're great and take them for a ride at the same time is a bit thick.
Souljazera Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 i have to say i,m with mr croasdell on this one.....
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 I didn't miss the point at all, you asked what would people's reactions be and I gave you mine. I focused on three things and the fact you got hold of the tapes is one other thing. I've got recordings of the Family from Colour Me Pop and hundreds of acetates no-one else has but I wouldn't release them for profit until I'd sorted the right people out. I don't particularly want it any way I was responding to your invitation to comment. I think I stated a preference that a lot people on here would prefer. Well they are a bit slow in coming forward aren't they. When Tim Brown first got hold of those Beat videos and he was selling them for £100 for six tapes, I couldn't get payment to him fast enough. Couldn't believe there was going to be a chance to see such material. You would rather nobody see the stuff because of your principals, fine, I'd rather pay Tim £100 and see stuff I could never have dreamed of ever seeing. And I honestly believe that most people would want to do that.
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 i have to say i,m with mr croasdell on this one..... So for instance, that jeff perry clip that everyone is raving over which I sent up, would you rather I kept that for myself and never let anyone see it? (I did not source that clip by the way)
Hold Tight Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 The bit that gets me is when a UK dealer tracks down an artist, writer or producer and gets some great records off them but only gives them as little as possible. Personally I think they should give at least 50% of the current value. it's different if it's a dealer or collector, they're in the same game and it's up to them to judge the price, but to tell an artist they think they're great and take them for a ride at the same time is a bit thick. This runs on particularly from my meaning, I have to agree though. If the value of an item is known and a the person is fleeced just for the sake of more profit on the part of the "buyer" it is morally reprehensible. More so if the buyer is someone who is making a big profit off it knowing the value in the first place, almost obtaining goods by deception.
Ady Croasdell Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 So for instance, that jeff perry clip that everyone is raving over which I sent up, would you rather I kept that for myself and never let anyone see it? (I did not source that clip by the way) If no-one paid you for it and no one's complained, it looks like you've done something noble and worthy; congratulations.
Ady Croasdell Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 This runs on particularly from my meaning, I have to agree though. If the value of an item is known and a the person is fleeced just for the sake of more profit on the part of the "buyer" it is morally reprehensible. More so if the buyer is someone who is making a big profit off it knowing the value in the first place, almost obtaining goods by deception. Not if it's a dealer whose job it is to sell rare records. I've under priced hundreds of singles but that's me being slow, I wouldn't expect anyone to give me more than I asked for, though if they really got a bargain I might not rush to do business with them again.
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 If no-one paid you for it and no one's complained, it looks like you've done something noble and worthy; congratulations. Alright Ady, one day you'll be able to write something to me without being sarcastic, I won't wait up..
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 If no-one paid you for it and no one's complained, it looks like you've done something noble and worthy; congratulations. And I suppose you missed the other 220 clips I also put up which no-one paid me for either...
Bazza Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 (edited) If you sold 30 copies ,artist get 3p per copy take off admin costs etc. ,gets a bit ridiculous I dont think I would bother BTW pm me with details Bazza Edited February 1, 2007 by bazza
Hold Tight Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Not if it's a dealer whose job it is to sell rare records. I've under priced hundreds of singles but that's me being slow, I wouldn't expect anyone to give me more than I asked for, though if they really got a bargain I might not rush to do business with them again. Sorry I took the meaning to be a dealer ( or someone in the know) tracking down an artist and fleecing them only to sell the goods at a ,previoulsy known ,higher market value.
Dave Thorley Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Hi Pete Have to say agree with Ady, what you have put up as U-Tube stuff is great all can see it for free and your not making money from it. But if you do do it, stay well away from the Soul Train stuff, cuz they will sue as soon as look at you. Have been doing it in the US alot of late. Dave
Billy Freemantle Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Firstly, let me say that I am really pleased that the clips are available on You tube. Secondly, assuming that I could make the effort to pay for and receive CDs of these clips I would not be prevented by conscience from doing just that. However, I would be fooling myself if I wasn't aware that selling material that does not belong to the seller ( even if it probably does no harm in this instance) is illegal and that to sanction it would be to attempt to legitimise boot-legging.
Ady Croasdell Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Sorry I took the meaning to be a dealer ( or someone in the know) tracking down an artist and fleecing them only to sell the goods at a ,previoulsy known ,higher market value. That's right, i must have misread your reply, soz.
Ady Croasdell Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Alright Ady, one day you'll be able to write something to me without being sarcastic, I won't wait up.. It wasn't sarcy, I meant it. You must assume I'm having a go when I'm not.
Guest Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 I think in our heart of hearts we all know this is all on shakey ground and from both sides really. Booting has been part of it all from a long time ago, some 'legal' some not. I doubt anyone will ever stop it and I personally think it has to be down to the individual as to how they deal with it. If you feel comfortable buying a boot, then fine. But at the same time, if an individual knows they're doing something deemed 'illegal', like parking on yellow lines for instance then they shouldn't be surprised when something happens really. Treading the fine line between all this is a matter of personal choice too, really. We had a lot of the stuff thats since been out legally on DVD at the Rocket five years ago (and a lot more besides that hasn't surfaced yet !). At that time we showed it on the big screen because virtually no one had seen it then. We showed it because it was amazing to see film of people we had no idea existed (the film not the people) and we wanted to share it. Technically illegal, morally...well you decide.
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 Hello! I did say this was "an idea that someone had written to me about" thats why I threw it open. I just don't have time to do pick and mix compilations anyway!
Soul-slider Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 (edited) But....someone's already beaten you to it Pete. I found a DVD called 'Legends Of Rare Soul - volume one' with 30 of the clips you've posted up...a guy in a record shop in Norwich got a copy from a local car boot and I asked if he could get me a copy, subsequently he managed to get me one too a week later off the same guy. It comes in a case/sleeve too. Obviously home made jobbie but it does say in small print: all footage licenced from nostalgia Central Products Los Angeles, California 90028 Edited February 1, 2007 by Soul-Slider
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 (edited) But....someone's already beaten you to it Pete. I found a DVD called 'Legends Of Rare Soul - volume one' with 30 of the clips you've posted up...a guy in a record shop in Norwich got a copy from a local car boot and I asked if he could get me a copy, subsequently he managed to get me one too a week later off the same guy. It comes in a case/sleeve too. Obviously home made jobbie but it does say in small print: all footage licenced from nostalgia Central Products Los Angeles, California 90028 Well that's a different kettle of fish. The material on there comes from both mine and Chris W's footage, as well as tracks that were actually licensed (the filler ones!). Soul Supply put this video out, and a volume 2. All of the stuff had previously circulated. They are pretty good compilations to be honest, retailed at 12.49 https://www.goldsoul.co.uk/shop/dvd/raresoul1.html Edited February 1, 2007 by Pete-S
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 It wasn't sarcy, I meant it. You must assume I'm having a go when I'm not. I must be paranoid!
Guest Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Well that's a different kettle of fish. The material on there comes from both mine and Chris W's footage, as well as tracks that were actually licensed (the filler ones!). Soul Supply put this video out, and a volume 2. All of the stuff had previously circulated. They are pretty good compilations to be honest, retailed at 12.49 https://www.goldsoul.co.uk/shop/dvd/raresoul1.html Yours and Chris W's ??
Chalky Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 Well they are a bit slow in coming forward aren't they. When Tim Brown first got hold of those Beat videos and he was selling them for £100 for six tapes, I couldn't get payment to him fast enough. Couldn't believe there was going to be a chance to see such material. You would rather nobody see the stuff because of your principals, fine, I'd rather pay Tim £100 and see stuff I could never have dreamed of ever seeing. And I honestly believe that most people would want to do that. You can buy the Beat one through Bear Family, around 6 dvds. Hullaballo also have a couplke of dvds out as well.
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 You can buy the Beat one through Bear Family, around 6 dvds. Hullaballo also have a couplke of dvds out as well. I know, I've got all of the above, I'm on about in 1996 when The Beat first appeared..
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 Yours and Chris W's ?? If you've got something to say, say it.
Chalky Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 I know, I've got all of the above, I'm on about in 1996 when The Beat first appeared.. I know
Ady Croasdell Posted February 1, 2007 Posted February 1, 2007 You can buy the Beat one through Bear Family, around 6 dvds. Hullaballo also have a couplke of dvds out as well. Well there you go, some of them seem to be out via legitimate operators, so we're all happy.
Pete S Posted February 1, 2007 Author Posted February 1, 2007 Well there you go, some of them seem to be out via legitimate operators, so we're all happy. THE bEAT ARE AVAILABLE FROM BEAR FAMILYS WEBSITE - IF NOT NOW DELETED - PRICE APPROX £22 - £24 PER DISC, 6 DISCS. Hullaballo are import only I think there are 3 volumes, I paid a lot for them but they are probablt cheaper now via Amazon, maybe £25 a volume.
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