I Hate Northern Soul

[Citizen P]

Errr, now that Ive got your attention.

Obviously not the music, I love it all(well most of it, I defy anyone to claim they like every sound they've heard) from 60's R&B through to 2000's err...R&B

No, it's the term I take issue with.

I much prefer the term Rare Soul, after all noboby ever said "I'm gonna sit down and write/produce/perform a Nothern Soul record(well there are exceptions to everything )"

Whenever I'm asked what music I like I just say Soul and leave it, cos you just can't explain, and Northern Soul still carries the burden ,to the unknowing masses, of Footsee,Wigan's Ovation etc etc.

All comments gratefully received

Tony

[Winnie :-)]

Errr, now that Ive got your attention.

Obviously not the music, I love it all(well most of it, I defy anyone to claim they like every sound they've heard) from 60's R&B through to 2000's err...R&B

No, it's the term I take issue with.

I much prefer the term Rare Soul, after all noboby ever said "I'm gonna sit down and write/produce/perform a Nothern Soul record(well there are exceptions to everything )"

Whenever I'm asked what music I like I just say Soul and leave it, cos you just can't explain, and Northern Soul still carries the burden ,to the unknowing masses, of Footsee,Wigan's Ovation etc etc.

All comments gratefully received

Tony

==========

In the main I agree with you Tony, and even wrote an article for Togetherness many moons ago, saying something similar. But it is a handy monicker though :-)

Winnie:-)

[John May]

yep. I have to agree, I always say I like Soul rather than Northern, I always think that to the masses, it reminds them of the footsie........

[Guest]

Errr, now that Ive got your attention.

Obviously not the music, I love it all(well most of it, I defy anyone to claim they like every sound they've heard) from 60's R&B through to 2000's  err...R&B

No, it's the term I take issue with.

I much prefer the term Rare Soul, after all noboby ever said "I'm gonna sit down and write/produce/perform a Nothern Soul record(well there are exceptions to everything )"

Whenever I'm asked what music I like I just say Soul and leave it, cos you just can't explain, and Northern Soul still carries the burden ,to the unknowing masses, of Footsee,Wigan's Ovation etc etc.

All comments gratefully received

Tony

link

<>

I agree with your comments.

The name northern soul surely only has the footsie etc. connection with people of a certain 40+ age group.

One advantage the young uns have, no star jumpers, 40inch bag-gage,

[Godzilla]

I much prefer the term Rare Soul, after all noboby ever said "I'm gonna sit down and write/produce/perform a Nothern Soul record(well there are exceptions to everything )"

link

To be fair, Tony, you'd have to be a bit odd to say I'm gonna sit down and write a Rare Soul tune as well don't you think?

It's just a name really. I think we have to just accept that there was some crap amongst the gold in the past.

You can't change your history

Godz

[Guest Kolla]

You can't change your history

Godz

link

With you on this one Godz.

If I told people I listened to "soul" - they think I meant Lemar and Jamelia. If I told people I listen to "rare soul" they'd think i'm a merchant banker.

I'd be surprised if many outside the scene knew what "footsee" or"out on the floor" were anyway so I'm happy just to say "northern soul" and leave 'em wondering what the hell it is ...

[Pete S]

Errr, now that Ive got your attention.

Obviously not the music, I love it all(well most of it, I defy anyone to claim they like every sound they've heard) from 60's R&B through to 2000's  err...R&B

No, it's the term I take issue with.

I much prefer the term Rare Soul, after all noboby ever said "I'm gonna sit down and write/produce/perform a Nothern Soul record(well there are exceptions to everything )"

Whenever I'm asked what music I like I just say Soul and leave it, cos you just can't explain, and Northern Soul still carries the burden ,to the unknowing masses, of Footsee,Wigan's Ovation etc etc.

All comments gratefully received

Tony

link

I have to disagree with you.

I like Northern Soul, not Soul.

Wouldn't want to confuse people.

[Peter]

[quote

I'd be surprised if many outside the scene knew what "footsee" or"out on the floor" were anyway so I'm happy just to say "northern soul" and leave 'em wondering what the hell it is

[Guest Kolla]

When was the last time anybody on this forum went to a Northern do and heard Footsee and Out on the Floor, been to many scooter do's that insist on playing Out On the Floor, Under My Thumb etc.

link

Tony started this, not me... topics like this one don't exactly keep me awake at night

[Guest]

Rare soul? Well loads of it ain't rare by any stretch of the imagination, so it is a very incorrect term if you ask me, unless you mean "rare not only in quantity but also in quality and so on...". I personally probably dislike easily more than 50% of everything that's branded northern, but I still love northern soul, and it would be a shame if you gave up and let the morons and tasteless people kidnap the term. I also feel uneasy if I am even remotely associated with all the awful white pop music played over the years, or highly dubious R&R, or the general tackiness, or scooterists with leather vests, or any other horrible clichs, but still, northern soul is what I like, at least my take of what northern is, and that's that. The most correct for me would be to say "various more or less obscure soul records from the past with a danceable beat", but it's not very handy is it? I like a bit of crossover and modern (70's and early 80's) as well, but I prefer to add that instead of fusing it all into "rare soul". I listen to and play a lot of records which I do not consider rare, they are often obscure, but not rare (even if some are quite rare, but still). Rare soul sounds as if it was the rarity of the records and not the quality of the music that was the most important factor.

P.S.

I personally think both cloth patches and baggy pants CAN be cool, it all depends on how, who, when, etc...

P.S. 2

I reserve the right to change my mind and use the term rare soul as I see fit and when I please.

[Guest]

I personally think both cloth patches and baggy pants CAN be cool, it all depends on how, who, when, etc...

Wigan, 1973/74. Thats it.

[Rob Wigley]

we all suffer at the hands of our work mates, family & non-soul friends with the "Northern" tag. However it does have the odd advantage in that every one always knows somebody who is into northern soul, bet your life when your friend says to you "I 've got this mate who's into northern, he's got thousands of records" so off you go around to his house after being introduced on the telephone he's not got one record that ain't a bootleg, he's got the full set of Goldmine CDs, he's never set foot in an all-nighter, he's never been to a soul night out side his own town (but he runs one so he and his best mate can Dj !) and he has patches stiched on to his polo shirt from evry all-nighter that ever was and he has a double family sized bucket of KFC for every meal.

Don't come away feeling disapointed, just feel lucky that you've made the effort to get into the roots of this music ,made friends from around the country (and the world) and can walk into any all-nighter in the Uk and know at least half the people in there and stand and talk bollocks to derek pearson all-night about half a dozen brilliant records that never saw the light of day out side a record shop in Detroit for nearly half a century ! Once this sceen gets hold of you there ain't nothing you can do about it ! I love it !

[tone5446]

Don't knock Out on the Floor, when I was much much younger and the record was new to the scene, it summed what it was all about. i wouldn't play it out now but it still holds some great memories

Tony

[Guest]

we all suffer at the hands of our work mates, family & non-soul friends with the "Northern" tag. However it does have the odd advantage in that every one always knows somebody who is into northern soul, bet your life when your friend says to you "I 've got this mate who's into northern, he's got thousands of records" so off you go around to his house after being introduced on the telephone he's not got one record that ain't a bootleg, he's got the full set of Goldmine CDs, he's never set foot in an all-nighter, he's never been to a soul night out side his own town (but he runs one so he and his best mate can Dj !) and he has patches stiched on to his polo shirt from evry all-nighter that ever was and he has a double family sized bucket of KFC for every meal.

The only thing that you missed was that they say they used to go to all the nighters years ago, but funnily enough, only the ones they can read about. And nobody ever remembers them being there.

[Guest in town Mikey]

I wouldnt want to call it any other name. I got into Northern Soul. I love Northern Soul.

I dont particularly listen to other types of soul, so I wouldnt really say I was a soul fan. And lots of the Northern Soul records I like, it could be argued, arent really all that soulful.

Rare soul somes up part of it. But when you say Northern Soul and people think of Tainted Love or Wigan Casino, thats great. At least they have heard of it. The problem for them then, is to try to shut me up before I bore them to tears

[Guest LeoLyxxx]

I wouldnt want to call it any other name. I got into Northern Soul. I love Northern Soul.

I dont particularly listen to other types of soul, so I wouldnt really say I was a soul fan. And lots of the Northern Soul records I like, it could be argued, arent really all that soulful.

Rare soul somes up part of it. But when you say Northern Soul and people think of Tainted Love or Wigan Casino, thats great. At least they have heard of it. The problem for them then, is to try to shut me up before I bore them to tears

link

I must say i find the term rare soul very convienient to use here in Stockholm, a lot of the club goers associate "northern soul" with some of the clubs that were around years ago over here that was very mod based and had a big emphasis on wigan stuff and plenty of stuff i don't like (although they had their time and i respect all the people involved) so it has happened i've played so called northern and people have said "this sound nothing like the northern soul i used to hear out" and mean it in a good way.. so i'm sticking to rare soul but then again i buy and play from all eras so it might be best that way

best

Leo

[Guest]

I agree Leo, it is a problem that "northern soul" is associated with poor pop records, poor sound, and many other bad things. You don't play that much northern soul anyway, so to not call it northern might be a good idea.

[Guest LeoLyxxx]

I agree Leo, it is a problem that "northern soul" is associated with poor pop records, poor sound, and many other bad things. You don't play that much northern soul anyway, so to not call it northern might be a good idea.

link

No, a very bad idea, since i dj with Lillis and Lars (who plays a LOT ns) it's best to call it a northern night.

best

Leo

[Guest]

It's Northern Soul - deal with it.

[Reg]

It's Northern Soul - deal with it.

link

Correct

[Winnie :-)]

[quote

I'd be surprised if many outside the scene knew what "footsee" or"out on the floor" were anyway so  I'm happy just to say "northern soul" and leave 'em wondering what the hell it is

When was the last time anybody on this forum went to a Northern do and heard Footsee and Out on the Floor, been to many scooter do's that insist on playing Out On the Floor, Under My Thumb etc.

=============

Heard out on the floor a couple of weeks back at a do in Milton keynes...no problem with it myself, I still like it, and usually dance to it. I've definitely heard Wayne Gibson within the last month, but unfortunately I can't remember where...again no huge problems with that either.

Winnie:-)

[Johnny T]

It's Northern Soul - deal with it.

link

It's called lot's of things by lot's of different people in lot's of different places! Not everything can be crow-barred into convenient little boxes....... You deal with it!

[Citizen P]

OK it is NORTHERN SOUL, and I can deal with it.

Yes, it is a handy monicker, and when you see a Northern night advertised you know why you're going,i.e. not for a battle, bonk & curry(although 2 out of 3 ain't bad ).

So I ain't arguing just putting up my point of view, which you may or may not agree with, we are all individuals.

Adios

Tony

[Winnie :-)]

OK it is NORTHERN SOUL, and I can deal with it.

Yes, it is a handy monicker, and when you see a Northern night advertised you know why you're going,i.e. not for a battle, bonk & curry(although 2 out of 3 ain't bad ).

So I ain't arguing just putting up my point of view, which you may or may not agree with, we are all individuals.

Adios

Tony

==============

Bloody 'ell Tony, you're giving up far too easily

In reality it's rare soul that at the time of it's christening was being played up north. Personally I think you're right rare soul is a far better description, but when putting a flyer out, writing northern soul at the top gives the punter an idea what is going to be played. These days, the flyers say things like rare soul...or across the board, or if they particularly support one genre, then that is normally included in the sub-text. Because of its recent all en-compassing nature, northern soul is probably not the right term IMO as my view of what northern really is comes from the 7Ts. If you spoke to Pete S, he would say something similar (I think) cos he has very strong views on what's northern and what's not. As you say it's an individual viewpoint, but calling it all northern allows us to all be put in the same bag, although it's a bag of all-sorts rather than a bag containing only toffees.....if you see what I mean

Winnie:-)

[Billy Freemantle]

Soul is Soul, which is what I love - some of it. Northern Soul is Northern Soul and part of soul, but very different from a lot of Soul - some of this is what I also love. Actually both Soul and Northern Soul in the 60s came under the umbrella of R& B , which I once again love or not depending on the ciircumstances. All these terms have meaning - discretely and in relation to one another - and it seems to me that are precise enough and that we don't need to change them. On the other hand Rare Soul is very imprecise - although it does have a nice exclusive ring to it!

Edited December 16, 2004 by Billy Freemantle

[Winnie :-)]

Soul is Soul, which is what I love - some of it. Northern Soul is Northern Soul and part of soul, but very different from a lot of Soul - some of this is what I also love. Actually both Soul and Northern Soul in the 60s came under the umbrella of R& B , which I once again love or not depending on the ciircumstances. All these terms have meaning - discretely and in relation to one another - and it seems to me that are precise enough and that we don't need to change them. On the other hand Rare Soul is very imprecise - although it does have a nice exclusive ring to it!

=============

Bearing in mind most of the tunes are between 35 and 45 years old and didn't chart......and there are comparitively few copies around.....rare soul seems quite apt to me.

Winnie:-)

[Guest Soultown andy]

Allways been northern soul to me and all ways will be cant for the life of me see why anyone would want to change the term to rare soul,especialy because of some mild embarasment with being associated with the worlds longest running and greatest under ground scene,as for out on the floor i wish somebody could discover a sound which epitomises ns anything like as well as this does.Think back boys and girls to the first time you ever heard it and ask yourself why you are still enjoying this scene so much.

[Godzilla]

To paraphrase Bruce Lee in Enter The Dragon:

"If you concentrate too hard on the end of the finger you miss the glory of what it's pointing at"

Godz

The lyrical lizzard

[Citizen P]

Stuff me!

That's on a par with

"Man with no shoes should feel pity for man with no feet"

Tony Confuscious(or however it's spelt)

[Winnie :-)]

Allways been northern soul to me and all ways will be cant for the life of me see why anyone would want to change the term to rare soul,especialy because of some mild embarasment with being associated with the worlds longest running and greatest under ground scene,as for out on the floor i wish somebody could discover a sound which epitomises ns anything like as well as this does.Think back boys and girls to the first time you ever heard it and ask yourself why you are still enjoying this scene so much.

==========

I'm not saying it shoudn't be called northern....it always will be known as that. I'm trying to say that by definition it is about the rare soul scene cos the records are rare....

Winnie:-)

[Guest Soultown andy]

Was,nt havein a go just stateing my opinion,and not all of em are rare

and again not havein a go.

[Chalky]

Maybe we should call it the soulcrossoverR&B60'sacrosstherareboardnorthernsoul scene

Edited December 16, 2004 by chalky

[Winnie :-)]

Was,nt havein a go just stateing my opinion,and not all of em are rare

and again not havein a go.

==========

Andy did put a smiley And know you weren't having a go. With the rare issue, was comparing northern to most of the stuff that has charted.

Winnie:-)

[Mike]

It's Northern Soul - deal with it.

link

ok but first tell us what northern soul is.......

[Winnie :-)]

Maybe we should call it the soulcrossoverR&B60'sacrosstherareboardnorthernsoul scene

=======

You've left out modern? You're not foolin' anyone Chalkster, we know you have disco in your bones

Winnie:-)

[Preston Soulie]

Hi Tony, I agree with you on this,  when we started listening to soul even as early as the Twisted Wheel and yes I am that old. We called it soul music or sometimes rytham and blues. It was that Mr Dave Godin who christened it Northern,  because we northerners liked faster dance soul records than his normal customers. And he kept a box of stompin tunes marked up as northern soul in his shop specially for us. I also agree that there is some terrible sounds labelled under the northern genre. I just call it soul music and let all the genre's fall under that heading, whatever it is.

KTF

[Kenb]

I wasn't a member of SS the first time this topic came around... so i know it's an old topic recently resurrected by Paul.

I can't explain what Northern Soul is - but for me -You know it's Northern Soul when...

When you wait eagerly to greet the postman to deliver the import record you won on bid. Because you don’t want him to drop it through the letterbox in case he damages it.

When you’re in a supermarket or elevator and ‘a tune’ comes on -and you look around to see who else ‘gets it’ - and you spot someone who has, and you both smile.

When you go to a N.S. venue and you are on your own – but you are not lonely.

When you hear a stranger say to you... “you into Northern Soul then” - and you just want to run away.Or When someone you don’t know starts talking about Frank Wilson “DILYIID”.

When it makes you cringe when someone says “yeah Northern Soul, 4 beats to the bar,repeated”.

When it doesn’t have to be a way of life – but it’s OK if it is your way of life.

When you know the difference between SKF’s and KFC...but these days you’d sooner have the latter.

When your partner says “so you’ve not bought another record, have you”?

When every pub that advertises a “Northern Soul" night AND also advertises it along with an accompanying  Motown night is to be avoided. And you have to be restrained from having a word with the licensee.

When you listen to “that record” and you’re fighting back the tears of emotion. Or “that record” comes on and you just have to dash to dance (if it’s a dance floor – so much the better).

When you’re asked to describe a NS record -and you can’t- but you just know when you’ve heard one...even if it’s for the first time.

 

 

[grant]

On ‎16‎/‎12‎/‎2004 at 00:10, Citizen P said:

Errr, now that Ive got your attention.

Obviously not the music, I love it all(well most of it, I defy anyone to claim they like every sound they've heard) from 60's R&B through to 2000's err...R&B

No, it's the term I take issue with.

I much prefer the term Rare Soul, after all noboby ever said "I'm gonna sit down and write/produce/perform a Nothern Soul record(well there are exceptions to everything )"

Whenever I'm asked what music I like I just say Soul and leave it, cos you just can't explain, and Northern Soul still carries the burden ,to the unknowing masses, of Footsee,Wigan's Ovation etc etc.

 

All comments gratefully received

Tony

I just tell them I like punk, normally makes them move on

[Guest]

On 16/12/2004 at 00:10, Citizen P said:

Errr, now that Ive got your attention.

Obviously not the music, I love it all(well most of it, I defy anyone to claim they like every sound they've heard) from 60's R&B through to 2000's err...R&B

No, it's the term I take issue with.

I much prefer the term Rare Soul, after all noboby ever said "I'm gonna sit down and write/produce/perform a Nothern Soul record(well there are exceptions to everything )"

Whenever I'm asked what music I like I just say Soul and leave it, cos you just can't explain, and Northern Soul still carries the burden ,to the unknowing masses, of Footsee,Wigan's Ovation etc etc.

 

All comments gratefully received

Tony

Thank GOD.  Somebody out there is talking some sense on this subject, at last.

[Steve S 60]

38 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

Thank GOD.  Somebody out there is talking some sense on this subject, at last.

At last?  Nearly 14 years ago.

[Colnago]

2 minutes ago, Steve S 60 said:

At last?  Nearly 14 years ago.

 

3 minutes ago, Steve S 60 said:

At last?  Nearly 14 years ago.

[Widnes63]

At last ? .... it was posted almost fourteen years ago !!!!

I use rare soul to work colleagues etc because of the stereotype thing.

[Len]

The term 'Northern Soul' is now back in vogue.

Catch up 

Len 

[Steve S 60]

4 minutes ago, LEN said:

The term 'Northern Soul' is now back in vogue.

Catch up 

Len 

 

[Guest Spain pete]

Um  um um um um um um um   / WTF / as l read my blues and soul mag / MAJOR LANCE / n/s crap/?  Tyrone Davis , Curtis , Isaac, Marvin , mandrill, sir Joe , last poets , all green , war, cymande , Otis , Wilson , James , Aretha , Herbie Hancock , Donald Byrd for me  , OH  l think l like the major as well  / it's called music that  moves me  CALL IT WHAT YOU WANT  even N/S

Edited July 28, 2018 by Spain pete
?

[Mark S]

Anyone asks me about music I just stare  blankly tilt my head and dribble slightly .

Pointless trying to explain it to Divs they will never get it .

[Guest]

In my humble opinion, Levine had it absolutely right, Northern Soul is dead,

The scene that a lot of us can remember from the 70's , in my eyes can not be replicated, and it doesn;t matter which lightweight tunes are " discovered"

and played under the banner of rare soul, It can never be what it was,

When the punters are in the latter stages of their lives, with the advent of social media, when the majority of people have their own cars, when music

is available to stream, when information on records, venues, dj's and playlists are available at the touch of a keyboard. How can it be what it was?

It was edgy, it was exciting, it was meeting new people, face to face, it was , how the hell am I going to get there? or get back?

The whole scene was what you read in Blues and Soul ,or Echoes, reading through lists from Manship or John Anderson at Soul Bowl, trying to decipher the tape that you recorded at Wigan or Beford or Peterbourough. ( forgot that I went to the Fleet for an alnighter)

Anyway, with all the handshakes and backslapping, talk of posses and weekenders, the soul police telling me that some of the records that I loved stomping to at Wigan are not really Northern Soul, I have to say that Northern Soul is sadly dead, now just a Butlins type remember when Northern Soul was good scene.

Memories.

Cranfield Soul 

[Guest]

On 16/12/2004 at 15:32, Soultown andy said:

Allways been northern soul to me and all ways will be cant for the life of me see why anyone would want to change the term to rare soul,especialy because of some mild embarasment with being associated with the worlds longest running and greatest under ground scene,as for out on the floor i wish somebody could discover a sound which epitomises ns anything like as well as this does.Think back boys and girls to the first time you ever heard it and ask yourself why you are still enjoying this scene so much.

Rare soul is almost as bad. This fetish with how few copies a record sold is ridiculous. Every week I trawl through a certain dealer's list only to be told how rare this or that is. In a lot of cases I can see why. The record/s in question didn't sell because they are complete and utter shite. What is wrong with Soul or R&B ?

[Frankie Crocker]

I rather like Northern Soul. Proper Northern Soul that is. I detest journalists who think they are hip using the term Northern Soul to describe a restaurant in Highbury or a cottage in the Yorkshire Dales. I thoroughly dislike U.S.A. dealers tagging any old 60’s up-tempo track ‘Northern Soul’ in the hope some fool might buy it.

Rare Soul is a term used for music that is not Northern Soul but liked by people who dabble in the realms of 50’s to 70’s black music of varying tempos. Sometimes the sounds are not rare or soulful but can be liked by those with an ear for them.

[Bossfourpart1]

I like good soul music across the board really ,so Soul music covers it for myself.