Second Rooms at events ?

[Mike]

During a recent topic the subject of 'second rooms' came up

A view was posted by @Girdwoodinc

1 hour ago, Girdwoodinc said:

Should be one music, in one room under one roof - events with more than one room that aren't weekenders annoy the shite out of me - half empty rooms, DJ clashes and same the type of music all night (this may just be me though)

followed by a suggestion for a topic and then a poll on second rooms

here ya go

poll and topic...

[Supercorsa]

Other than Cleethorpes weekender, I haven't been to a two room event in years.

Those that I did attend were Soulfusion in Gloucester and one night at Bisley, when they had a modern room.

Soulfusion worked well as the three separate rooms had clearly defined different styles.

Bisley I spent the evening in the modern room. As much as I like oldies, I sometimes felt at that time, was same tunes played everytime it was on.

For approximately  the past 10 years been attendIng Teddington (1 room event),  which has had different guest djs every month.  I would say its predominantly northern, but due to the varied line ups has included a more across the board feel on a number of occasions.

I suppose nowadays its dependant on the numbers through the door and how responsive they are to different styles.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Supercorsa

[Winsford Soul]

Thanks Mike. 

As someone who apart from this lockdown has never really left the scene since 1975 I really don't want to hear the same records over and over again everytime I play out ( not repeat plays on the night ) but they play the same records month in month out which generally happens at most venues  which in turn limits the venues available for the likes of myself but as plenty of my mates still prefer the oldies I sometimes make the choice of mates or music.  With 2 rooms I generally have the best of both worlds. Selfish yeah why not . Hence the reason I tend to spend more time in the 2nd rooms at venues that have them or go to venues that don't play mainly oldies. 

Before any of the Frank Wilson lovers spit the dummy ( as they do ) its not aimed at your choice of music. 

Ste 

[Kenb]

i did attend a two room club some years back and spent most of the night walking between the 2 trying to catch 'a personal goodie'...so never bothered again and instead i now take my chances of choice & variety at the venue where i know i'll get just that.

[Winsford Soul]

8 minutes ago, Kenb said:

i did attend a two room club some years back and spent most of the night walking between the 2 trying to catch 'a personal goodie'...so never bothered again and instead i now take my chances of choice & variety at the venue where i know i'll get just that.

Ken. Totally get where you're coming from with the wandering from room to room looking for your soul hit.  

[Leicester Boy]

Happy with 2 room events. More choice whats not to like. The main room tends to be oldies and a second playing "modern " etc keeps most happy. At the oddfellows reunions it spread the crowd out if nothing else.

[Tomangoes]

Maybe...

Personally I cant stand the "anything goes" mantra, and prefer to know what room I'm walking into, music policy wise.

Nowhere is ever perfect for everyone, but whilst I've been bored stupid at the 100 club with mid tempo 60s obsurities, the floor was full.

On the other hand I went to do in a Blackpool hotel and when "No part time love for me" came on, I was dancing alone.

So I get why two or three rooms even are used if it keeps more folks happy.

Promoters will obviously try to appeal to as many punters as possible.

Ed

[Amsterdam Russ]

I rather like two-room events. Typically one is bigger than the other (or smaller than the other depending on how you look at things), which creates different atmospheres - that's taking it for granted you have a good crowd in the first place.

Also adding to the atmosphere, and most importantly, is the music policy. I'm not so keen when there's a clear demarcation of styles/genres - having a classics room and a modern room, for example. Boundaries between genres have long blurred on the dance floor and even your average night of classics requires a multi-genre mix.

For me, the best way to get a good music mix is to have a good DJ mix. Choose your DJs sensibly and you should be certain of avoiding hearing the same songs - whether in the same room or in both. A good organiser knows their DJs just as they should know the crowd - and the atmospheric potential of the rooms and the venue as a whole. Understand how to combine all three and away you go with a cracking event!

Edited March 26, 2021 by Amsterdam Russ
klaritee

[Geeselad]

3 hours ago, Winsford Soul said:

Thanks Mike. 

As someone who apart from this lockdown has never really left the scene since 1975 I really don't want to hear the same records over and over again everytime I play out ( not repeat plays on the night ) but they play the same records month in month out which generally happens at most venues  which in turn limits the venues available for the likes of myself but as plenty of my mates still prefer the oldies I sometimes make the choice of mates or music.  With 2 rooms I generally have the best of both worlds. Selfish yeah why not . Hence the reason I tend to spend more time in the 2nd rooms at venues that have them or go to venues that don't play mainly oldies. 

Before any of the Frank Wilson lovers spit the dummy ( as they do ) its not aimed at your choice of music. 

Ste 

If theyve just spent a silly amount on a record, they want to get there money's worth, it's the obsession with rarity, even if all the djs present gave a copy with them, that determines  what most DJ play, ego, pure and simple. 

[Len]

2 hours ago, Tomangoes said:

but whilst I've been bored stupid at the 100 club with mid tempo 60s obsurities, the floor was full.

Len 

[Len]

I'd prefer one room all SOUL music (Not R'n'B) 

Venues have almost been forced to have a 'tag on' room, so that the main room caters for what seems to be the masses requirements.

Personally I think this is wrong - Punters ain't stupid, and if served up properly (good DJs) they will embrace good soul music, even if they may not know all of the tunes.

Of course you will always get the 'we don't know it, so don't like it folk - L I S T E N ! ! ! 

Len 

[Soulman58]

I haven't been anywhere for ages, but I suppose 2 or more rooms was never a bad idea.  Personally I would always head to the rooms where the DJs I liked the most, whether Northern, Modern, Jazz/Funk or deep were playing.  If one room for me there needs to be plenty of variety.

 

[Chalky]

The scene is simply far too diverse now with a crowd with little patience for what they don't want to hear.  

I stand by what I said in the topic this discussion was derived from that the new releases that are pretty prolific these days are seldom played.  They may get played at smaller niche events but I don't know one promoter who will book a Dj to play a set of new releases, be then new old from the vault 45s or brand new soul.  I know some Djs play one or two releases but they are more often than not the more acceptable releases.

For a start far too many though are pretty inferior.  Many aren't "northern" enough either for the main rooms.  There is a musical snobbery amongst the Djs, in particular the cheque book Djs that pretty much are the promoters first choice these days, not so much for what they play but for how much they are spending.  New releases are still frowned upon by many even though many sell out in days and fetch 3 figure sums within weeks of release.

I've spent a lot of time in the second room and for some who Dj in this rooms they simply stick to tried and tested for fear of not getting people up dancing and simply don't get what those rooms are there for....as an alternative to what is being played in the first and to dig deep into collections and play the rarely heard.  

I'd like nothing better than to return to one room affairs but it will never happen.

The second room was probably started by After Dark (Steve Croft) at Cleethorpes etc, I Know Wigan had Mr M's for oldies but the main room anything still went. In the early 80s (circa 1983) there were many complaints about not enough or too much 60s or modern as it was then.  Places like Stafford still promoted the one room affair but the split between northern and modern was starting to happen and it was down hill from then onwards.

Today it isn't simply a case of Northern and modern.  We have R&B, crossover, funky stuff and so on, far too diverse for one dance floor.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Chalky

[Tomangoes]

Agreed.

To say the extremes of tunes played at Northern soul events has been expanded is an understatement.

I'm Jealous of folks who love everything and everybody...but I dont.

As soon as the upsetters gets played, I'm ofski....but accept I'm a minority.

I kind of get it now how the original fans pre 74 felt once the tailor made stuff started to get played. They did not want it, and it drove a lot away, but ironically at 14 I could not get enough of reaching for the best and weakspot!

Frustrating twist of fate i guess!

Ed

[Steve G]

Worse when the second room is just another "tired oldies" room but a different "genre" of "tired oldies". 

[Julianb]

10 hours ago, Chalky said:

The scene is simply far too diverse now with a crowd with little patience for what they don't want to hear.  

I stand by what I said in the topic this discussion was derived from that the new releases that are pretty prolific these days are seldom played.  They may get played at smaller niche events but I don't know one promoter who will book a Dj to play a set of new releases, be then new old from the vault 45s or brand new soul.  I know some Djs play one or two releases but they are more often than not the more acceptable releases.

For a start far too many though are pretty inferior.  Many aren't "northern" enough either for the main rooms.  There is a musical snobbery amongst the Djs, in particular the cheque book Djs that pretty much are the promoters first choice these days, not so much for what they play but for how much they are spending.  New releases are still frowned upon by many even though many sell out in days and fetch 3 figure sums within weeks of release.

I've spent a lot of time in the second room and for some who Dj in this rooms they simply stick to tried and tested for fear of not getting people up dancing and simply don't get what those rooms are there for....as an alternative to what is being played in the first and to dig deep into collections and play the rarely heard.  

I'd like nothing better than to return to one room affairs but it will never happen.

The second room was probably started by After Dark (Steve Croft) at Cleethorpes etc, I Know Wigan had Mr M's for oldies but the main room anything still went. In the early 80s (circa 1983) there were many complaints about not enough or too much 60s or modern as it was then.  Places like Stafford still promoted the one room affair but the split between northern and modern was starting to happen and it was down hill from then onwards.

Today it isn't simply a case of Northern and modern.  We have R&B, crossover, funky stuff and so on, far too diverse for one dance floor.

One of the problems regarding the playing of new releases may be that 'occasional' DJS who only do a few events is that they are booked to play what they are known to possess on original vinyl. 

Maybe the breaking of new stuff should be left to those who are DJing on a regular basis as generally the more you hear something, the more acceptable it becomes.I have bought a few recently and think I will give them a spin at the next charity event I do to see the reaction. I'll let you know the reaction in December (if we're out of lockdown by then).

Just my take on this discussion and quite prepared to be shot down in flames!

[Leicester Boy]

13 minutes ago, Julianb said:

One of the problems regarding the playing of new releases may be that 'occasional' DJS who only do a few events is that they are booked to play what they are known to possess on original vinyl. 

Maybe the breaking of new stuff should be left to those who are DJing on a regular basis as generally the more you hear something, the more acceptable it becomes.I have bought a few recently and think I will give them a spin at the next charity event I do to see the reaction. I'll let you know the reaction in December (if we're out of lockdown by then).

Just my take on this discussion and quite prepared to be shot down in flames!

As regards "new stuff" a record that hasn't been heard by the majority of the crowd isn't going to fill the floor until listened to.  So basically an empty floor, it needs a dj who is prepared to persevere to get the floor filled. Even the most well known oldies had to go through a rite of passage to fill the floor. Djs have to be braver and have the courage to stick with something they think will work.

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Julianb said:

One of the problems regarding the playing of new releases may be that 'occasional' DJS who only do a few events is that they are booked to play what they are known to possess on original vinyl. 

Maybe the breaking of new stuff should be left to those who are DJing on a regular basis as generally the more you hear something, the more acceptable it becomes.I have bought a few recently and think I will give them a spin at the next charity event I do to see the reaction. I'll let you know the reaction in December (if we're out of lockdown by then).

Just my take on this discussion and quite prepared to be shot down in flames!

And that is the trouble though, promoters want Billy Big Bollocks who has spent a fortune, wants only what he knows and not what else might be in his collection.  Side rooms are an simply to get 30 or 40 others in who they wouldn't normally get in.

I've always played some new or recent;y unearthed from the vaults releases.

1 hour ago, Leicester Boy said:

As regards "new stuff" a record that hasn't been heard by the majority of the crowd isn't going to fill the floor until listened to.  So basically an empty floor, it needs a dj who is prepared to persevere to get the floor filled. Even the most well known oldies had to go through a rite of passage to fill the floor. Djs have to be braver and have the courage to stick with something they think will work.

Precisely what Is I said earlier, no patience for anything they do not know and are totally unwilling to give anything a go.

What happened to the mentality everyone had at some stage, new stuff throughout the decades, Torch, Wigan, Mecca, Stafford, Blackburn etc

 

[Len]

2 hours ago, Leicester Boy said:

As regards "new stuff" a record that hasn't been heard by the majority of the crowd isn't going to fill the floor until listened to.  So basically an empty floor, it needs a dj who is prepared to persevere to get the floor filled. Even the most well known oldies had to go through a rite of passage to fill the floor. Djs have to be braver and have the courage to stick with something they think will work.

That's true to a point.  But good unknown records can be spliced in whilst keeping the floor going.

It takes yonks for unknown records to stand alone as floor fillers for sure.

Len 

[Len]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

What happened to the mentality everyone had at some stage, new stuff throughout the decades, Torch, Wigan, Mecca, Stafford, Blackburn etc

 

I'd say that (positive) mentality of welcoming good unknown tunes disappeared in the main around the time lots of people came back on the scene after missing 20 years and expecting it to be exactly how they left it.  Frustrating as that is, promotors have to accommodate their punters.  That said, there are also lots who recognise that they missed so many good tunes, and have been overwhelmed by them.

Not sure how the people with that 'hunger' for fresh sounds became the minority. Although I know some that got bored, so stopped coming out to play.

Things are gonna be different after this lock-down experience though Chalky - You see, everyone will be so happy to be out they will be cheering all the soul sounds 

Len  

[Chalky]

8 minutes ago, Len said:

I'd say that (positive) mentality of welcoming good unknown tunes disappeared in the main around the time lots of people came back on the scene after missing 20 years and expecting it to be exactly how they left it.  Frustrating as that is, promotors have to accommodate their punters.  That said, there are also lots who recognise that they missed so many good tunes, and have been overwhelmed by them.

Not sure how the people with that 'hunger' for fresh sounds became the minority. Although I know some that got bored, so stopped coming out to play.

Things are gonna be different after this lock-down experience though Chalky - You see, everyone will be so happy to be out they will be cheering all the soul sounds 

Len  

It started before then but yes the grand return accelerated it.  Most of the returning are brought up on new discoveries, unless they only went for two weeks like many, yet upon their return all they wanted was familiarity.  The majority didn't move on as you would expect to wanting something new.

[Kenb]

27 minutes ago, Chalky said:

It started before then but yes the grand return accelerated it.  Most of the returning are brought up on new discoveries, unless they only went for two weeks like many, yet upon their return all they wanted was familiarity.  The majority didn't move on as you would expect to wanting something new.

I'm sure you & Len might be right on this for some...but not for me. I returned and was delighted to find/hear all the 'new stuff' (to me), and was thrilled it wasn't 'exact;y how i left it'.

[Chalky]

1 minute ago, Kenb said:

I'm sure you & Len might be right on this for some...but not for me. I returned and was delighted to find/hear all the 'new stuff' (to me), and was thrilled it wasn't 'exact;y how i left it'.

Definitely some who got into the groove they left and had the thirst for new stuff.  Some moved on later to new stuff but I found the majority were just stuck in the retro trap.

43 minutes ago, Len said:

Things are gonna be different after this lock-down experience though Chalky - You see, everyone will be so happy to be out they will be cheering all the soul sounds 

Len  

I hope that is the case mate but I feel for the majority this past year will be as it never existed and be right back where we left it 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Chalky

[Len]

1 hour ago, Kenb said:

I'm sure you & Len might be right on this for some...but not for me. I returned and was delighted to find/hear all the 'new stuff' (to me), and was thrilled it wasn't 'exact;y how i left it'.

Great to hear - I've had brilliant experiences seeing the thrill of some of the people returning after years, and being so thrilled at the amount of fantastic sounds they were hearing for the first time.

Ok, I may be being a bit too optimistic ref the 'after lock-down feel good factor', but I do think there is more hope of everyone being more open minded - This stands to reason with time regardless.  Surely after a few years of reliving the same sounds, people need a bit more stimulation.

To take this thread back full circle - Seconds rooms can work well, but I think it's a pity we need them.

Len 

[Geeselad]

I voted sack second rooms but on reflection, certain records, from a wide variety of genres, only work in certain settings. Some great tunes are destined to be second rooms some sounds, not because of quality, but production or just sound and feel. I've had some great fun in back rooms, spinning and dancing over the years. Long may they continue. 

[Merve]

I voted depends. Cant see the point in 2 rooms with 30 people in each but for bigger venues a separate oldies room keeps sounds fresh in the other room 

[Chalky]

I voted keep but only because I know it would never work in none room today, as much as I'd like it to

Edited March 27, 2021 by Chalky

[Scooterboy]

One room.  Stick to a theme/genre/your guns.

Other than the biggest of events, you'll split the audience.  Focus on what you do best and what your audience responds to.

IMHO.

Chris

[Steve G]

Has to be "Depends" I would have thought. One venue I DJed at for years had a second room for "downbeat" sounds, it was very successful and attracted a different set of people who would come because the 2nd room was there. Alternatively, I heard of one second room with about 10-20 people in (8 DJs and occasional "walk ins" where DJs weren't paid at all, on the basis it was some sort of "vocational" thing. 

[Twoshoes]

It was toss up between Keep and Depends for me. As Russ says it's down to the promoter who should know whether his night and the crowd he caters for warrants a second room.

If the promoter knows from the get go that the main room always has a good crowd and there is also a demand for a room playing in whatever way something different plus the Dj's playing in that room are aware they will be playing to a limited audience I see no problem.

I've seen it work with the same Dj's playing both rooms, some of the Dj's I know were happy to play and try out tunes in the second room they know would not gain instant acceptance in the main room. Much as I enjoy the tried and tested given the choice I'd go for listening to new, underplayed, rare, whatever just something other than the same old same old.

If the promoter is happy with a second room and it does not adversely affect the main room happy days.