Records Pre or Post Internet?

[Chris Turnbull]

Came across a tune I didn't know on Youtube, Shazamed it, bought the vinyl on Discogs (where I could have had about 30 graded copies from rated sellers all over the world), will arrive at my door in the next couple of days

Contrast with pre internet record collecting - got an old notebook I used to write down tunes from Shades of Soul, etc that of course you had no way of hearing unless you went to a night and someone happened to play them (or on the radio I suppose) - used to take the book round with me to record shops hoping to chance upon some of them, and that if I did they'd actually be to my taste, worth buying, that the copy available was in decent nick, that I could play it in the shop, that the price was right, etc

Or buying records blind from trusted dealers ('great beat ballad', etc), or from dealers at niters and hoping they were in good nick

Which do you prefer? Internet taken a lot of the fun out of the record hunting element but wins big time for me in terms of choice, reliability, convenience, etc  

Also interesting how different my record collection is with the ability to pick and choose more easily, rather than just take what you luck upon at a particular time

Any thoughts?

Edited March 22, 2021 by Chris Turnbull
Spelling

[Seano]

I was never as dedicated as you describe here with regard to wants lists, but do agree that a big difference is the convenience vs the physical search.

The danger via the modern technology route is that you can be pretty rapid in either liking or disregarding a tune on the first few seconds of hearing it, and so tailor your buying to what style you like at the current moment.

One of the long term pleasures of buying blind, soul packs especially, but also junk shops and 2nd hand record shops that rarely had listening decks as I recall, was that unless you really hated a tune, you just held onto it. Over time, when you delve in and play stuff you had overlooked, you come across records that seem just right now, but that weren't quite right back when you got hold of them.

I genuinely believe that buying records that I thought might be worth a punt helped to broaden my taste, as even if I was a bit disappointed that a certain 45 wasn't an out and out stomper, I'd still normally find that I enjoyed it and felt it was just good soul of a different style.

[Martyn Pitt]

Pre internet ... they were cheaper 

I bought loads of records blind, generally cheap as chips, much more fun, especially now when I see records I paid pennies for fetching stupid money.

In my teens my dad asked why I was wasting my money on all those b****y records, I wish I'd had more money to waste on them.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Martyn Pitt
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[John Siret]

I prefer pre Internet if it comes to it or though both have + & -. 

Used to have hundreds of tapes which had been swapped with other collectors, that was another way to hear unknown records. 

[Dave Pinch]

it is much easier today but was probably more fun and cheaper back then.. as john says in the post above i too had 100s of tapes and later cd`s to go at.. finding that want in a box at niters always set my pulse racing and got me a sweat on.. trawling the net that doesnt seem to happen to me anymore and some things come a lot easier but cost a lot more

[Smudger]

Pre internet for me because i used to go all over the place into record and second hand shops,loads of great finds on market stalls .Used to pick out quite a few records with prices on then ask for discount for bulk buy can't ever remember being turned down and some beauties hidden among the lesser items.

But at first internet was great for some bargains just every one became wiser with price guides being published.

Not as much fun now.

[Soulacola]

pre internet, i had no idea what i wanted til i found it. once i'd bought the classis i shopped by label and year, building up a collection of chess and sue. i often go back to records that were too slow or that i didnt like, did out an old box and fall in love. just cant resist buying a copy immediately now without even shopping around for a few months. i have instantitis in the youtube click bait world just as bad as my teenage daughter.

[Chris Turnbull]

Thanks for comments so far, really interesting how all more or less preferred pre internet - I'm the opposite, think my collection much more in tune with what I really like rather than what may have been available at the time, and while it is enjoyable trawling round junk shops, etc, half the time the vinyl quality is poor, you probably end up buying stuff you wouldn't buy otherwise just because it's there, etc. Life definitely too short, I'd rather have an almost infinite choice at my disposal now - quantity, quality, etc

Also don't necessarily agree everything more expensive now - undoubtedly it is at the top end but I reckon competition on discogs etc drives prices down for more readily available stuff and there are some bargains if you spend the time shopping around, even on ebay with so many folks selling stuff (another internet plus point i.e. you can easily sell records yourself - on here, discogs etc which tops up the buying funds - wouldn't have been able to do that before)

[Dave Pinch]

1 hour ago, Chris Turnbull said:

Thanks for comments so far, really interesting how all more or less preferred pre internet - I'm the opposite, think my collection much more in tune with what I really like rather than what may have been available at the time, and while it is enjoyable trawling round junk shops, etc, half the time the vinyl quality is poor, you probably end up buying stuff you wouldn't buy otherwise just because it's there, etc. Life definitely too short, I'd rather have an almost infinite choice at my disposal now - quantity, quality, etc

Also don't necessarily agree everything more expensive now - undoubtedly it is at the top end but I reckon competition on discogs etc drives prices down for more readily available stuff and there are some bargains if you spend the time shopping around, even on ebay with so many folks selling stuff (another internet plus point i.e. you can easily sell records yourself - on here, discogs etc which tops up the buying funds - wouldn't have been able to do that before)

i certainly agree the first 10 years i was on ebay. gemm netsounds etc i was like a kid in a sweetshop and its great to have the biggest record box ever at your fingertips but last 10 years its got much fiercer then on the top of that we have all the extra post and fees etc.. weve had a good run with it tho..just hope it dont get no worse than it is at present

[Tlscapital]

Worse it is getting everyday. Price wise at least. That's never a good news. Records were all over about to be "crate dug" in shops, warehouses, collectors collection, private dealers or at fairs. Much less so today. OK it required for one to move, travel, find the 'connections' but for the 'brave' the gain was the prize of the effort.

Like the 'rare' soul scene it was all "underground". Crate diggers of the "old school" were doing it for the passion of the music and/or the records with for reference their sole ears and knowledge, sniffing the right 'bite'. Then they have been put in competition with packs of hunters doing it for the money with discogs for reference.

Trades were also easier. Now because of the internet the whole speculative aspects of those 'rare' records have driven many of the prices beyond realistic reach. Meaning only money can conclude a deal. Allowing many with more 'green power' than before to come into the 'collecting' game with a lazy 'click'... Passion ?

To discover something on the internet just satisfies my curiosity. Yes I use the internet for such purpose as well. To buy, sell and trade also. But as said before, to discover a record it just doesn't involve the same excitement for me as it is like in a 'club', at a friend's or at home with a "newly" bought record never heard before.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Tlscapital

[Joesoap]

Definitely pre-internet. Fun has gone out of it now to a large extent and bargains a thing of the past. It's changed from an interest where the more effort you put in the more you developed your knowledge and the more rewarding it got, to one where all you really need is lots of disposable income. Just another form of expensive retail consumerism now really.

That said, I think there are other possibilities with the changed situation...

[Dave Pinch]

i will say the last 12 months tho the internet has kept us all sane while we can spend tme and money trawling for records while we been stuck in the house.. dont know what i would have done without it personally on a buying and selling basis

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

I agree with all the pre-internet comments about wants notebooks, tape swappers and all that stuff. Great fun. 

However, what about the early days of the internet. I remember joining Ebay over 20 years ago and buying stuff blind for 2 or 3 $ with shipping at $4 it was worth a punt and found some decent stuff and some garbage along with it, but it was great anticipating the post to see whether you'd bought a monster or dud. Also as there wen't many collectors on Ebay you could pick up some obscure rarities for little money. 

Dealers began popping up on line and they had little or no knowledge of soul music and again I had many fantastic finds at give away prices. Today they all seem Ebay savvy and the chances of any real bargains are few and far between.

The biggest change I've seen is the introduction of the sound file. All those hours of making notes on records seen, heard and swapped on tape, all the knowledge of years of collecting, phoning the US dealers to listen to records etc, all became a waste of time, as the sound file "leveled" the knowledge and ultimately has in many ways driven the prices up. 

[Still Diggin]

The folks who had good knowledge and revered collections pre-internet had in most cases earned it, they spent more time than most with their head in sales boxes, subscibed to every sales list they knew about and spent hours listening to records down the phone, in other words doing the knowledge and developing their own taste. Now it's full of check book charlies buying anything over a grand to impress their little click on face book with little clue why they actually like the record, meanwhile adding to their wants list on discogs with records they feel they need just because another clone of themself want's it. So in a nutshell I think the internet has been a breeding ground for a different type of div.

[Len]

Pre-internet much more fun, and being younger it was our top priority in life! The amount of time and effort lots of people put in was amazing.

Everything has been made easy for kids now, they're glued to their phones......"I want somat to eat".......'click'.  Gotta feel sorry for them really.

Wasn't it great playing your new tune down the phone to a mate?......"Wow that's great, hang on you got to listen to what I just bought".......(An hour later)....."Yeh, I won't be long mum!".......

Len 

[Chalky]

9 hours ago, Still Diggin said:

The folks who had good knowledge and revered collections pre-internet had in most cases earned it, they spent more time than most with their head in sales boxes, subscibed to every sales list they knew about and spent hours listening to records down the phone, in other words doing the knowledge and developing their own taste. Now it's full of check book charlies buying anything over a grand to impress their little click on face book with little clue why they actually like the record, meanwhile adding to their wants list on discogs with records they feel they need just because another clone of themself want's it. So in a nutshell I think the internet has been a breeding ground for a different type of div.

Spot on mate

[Chris Turnbull]

All a bit jumpers for goalposts

For someone like me who doesn't have a grand to spend on JM's auction, the choice, availability, quality, decent prices etc on the internet when you're looking for inexpensive tunes that otherwise could take years to find is more appealing than the long haul game pre-internet

Being able to listen to and appreciate records now is far more important to me than spending months trying to track them down - maybe it's an age thing

Bought loads recently from Chalky's Stafford Modern playlists - Searling, Dave Thorley, etc. Sold a couple on here to make £300 or so, bought the best priced and graded copies on Discogs, had them all delivered within a week or so and able to play and enjoy them straight away.

None cost much more than a tenner but obscure enough that I would have spent a long time trying to track them down pre-internet, and my record collection reflects what I actually want to buy and listen to - happy days 

[Steve G]

Got the large majority of my collection pre internet, helped not just by lists, visits, listening and digging but also by regular trips to the USA for my employer which took me to the uSA and Canada over 50 times.

I would say post internet has opened up more sources for records. Things that were never really seen before. Part of that is, I suspect, due to old record guys retiring and clearing their old stock etc.  

On balance I prefer the internet world, if there is something I want I can spend some time trying to source a copy. Saves writing loads of letters etc. 

Just stay away from trophy records and you can have endless fun. That is what collecting is about isn't it?

 

 

[Soulacola]

here's a thing i've noticed.

all the fails i bought at somebodies record stall or shop in the 80's, 90's. 2000's before i could check what the track was like went into the failed section of boxes at the back of the garage. when i revisited these recently after my tastes changed  i discovered loads of gems and memories of the last decades. where i bought originals later on i found some wonderful bootlegs on Boot records and SOS and  horaces that really felt special to hear again. the slower stuff i did'nt like back then was like raiding a record shop of my own. if i had checked those records out like i do now or had accesss to originals via the internet i wouldnt have this potted history of memories stashed away. my mistakes have turned out to be a lovely place to revisit.

[Geeselad]

Pro and cons on both sides as well highlighted in the conversation, on the weight of it and for the reasons soulacola highlighted, I'd take pre net. tastes change, the mainstay of my collection had been the left feild things you used to be able to speculate on. Their is a value to everything now, less real shops, junk shops ect.

[Johndelve]

Having, like many others on here, bought soul records for over five decades, I would also agree there are pros and cons as regards today versus the pre-internet era. Certainly back then it was easier to get bargains and also the turnover of stock was huge, records could appear in bulk anywhere - many times in Brighton huge shipments would arrive in places such as department stores or once, even, a greengrocers.....

On the other hand, I am now finding records on discogs that I never had a sniff of before, given that we can so easily buy from pretty much anywhere in the world..

And bargains CAN still happen, of course. Got this cheap on ebay just four days ago. I was the only bidder.

https://www.discogs.com/Various-The-Unfolding-Of-The-Book-Of-Life-Volume-One/release/2506143

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

On 23/03/2021 at 21:51, Still Diggin said:

The folks who had good knowledge and revered collections pre-internet had in most cases earned it, they spent more time than most with their head in sales boxes, subscibed to every sales list they knew about and spent hours listening to records down the phone, in other words doing the knowledge and developing their own taste. Now it's full of check book charlies buying anything over a grand to impress their little click on face book with little clue why they actually like the record, meanwhile adding to their wants list on discogs with records they feel they need just because another clone of themself want's it. So in a nutshell I think the internet has been a breeding ground for a different type of div.

Spot on Andy. I was a bit more polite in my comment about sound files 'leveling up the knowledge' of some to those who have done the hard yards. Great to hear the word 'Div' again, I haven't used that since the 70's 

Andy Mac

[Soulacola]

when you've bought a turkey because the label was good its still a turkey though!!!!

being able to play a toon on YouTube has saved curbed my enthusiasm for throwing money down the toilet on a whim. good or bad resource. its probably saved me from excitedly rushing home and putting my latest discovery on the turntable only to find a sickly ballad of lost love sung by a foghorn dressed as a clown.

[Benji]

To me the best years were the early internet years. Literally yield years. Lots of US dealers creating their own sites and posting sales list, countless bargains found. Also, when Ebay US started. Again, countless quality records found at very good prices.

Pre-internet I was relying on UK and US sales list posted by mail. They took ages to arrive here in Germany. Most interesting 45s were gone by the time I got the lists.

[markmc]

My partner loves poker machine gambling Las Vegas. She loves the atmosphere, the characters and she usually comes out winning a bit. Thankfully she has no interest in online gambling when she gets home. Similarly I love record shops. I will walk miles in the burning heat from Encore to Record City to hunt through hundreds of old records, and I really look forward to it. The excitement of whats gonna be the next record in the pile! The tension of when you find a goodie and you slowly take it out the sleeve to check the condition! The low when its cracked. The high when you get a bit of a bargain (big Northern finds are long gone, but I like great Soul records). Back in Sunny Manchester I still love record shops. If I've a day off in the week I'll stay up silly late the night before listening to records and after a leisurely breakie I'll set off on my bike ride. Could be Rochdale, Heywood, Hyde, Stockport, Warrington, Alty, Chorlton (Kingbee, special treat!), Stretford, Wigan, Bolton, Prestwich (Beatin Rhythym, another special treat) or Northern Quarter. Sometimes I spend a lot (thats over 40 quid for me), other times literally nothing. But its a great hobby combining fresh air, exercise and late night drinking.

Chris is correct in that you can get whatever you want on t'internet and if there is something I specifically want that's the place to go. Could take years to find in record shops what you can find in seconds on Discogs. But I dont really enjoy the online search or the faff of having to collect from the sorting office. Like many here I was enthralled by the early days of Ebay. At first it was lots of bargains with a low dollar rate, cheap shipping and no crazy bidders. Then it got to the stage of looking at a computer screen at work all day then rushing home to try and keep up with the never ending new entries on Ebay, and not really buying much anymore. And as the wise gamblers say "when the fun stops, stop". That said I've spend a bit of lockdown time trawling through a few disog sellers lists to find some bits to make the postage on the record I want worthwhile. So I guess pre or post I'd say post. Best of best worlds although record shops are now severely depleted, yet you never know .....

[Gaz T]

On 22/03/2021 at 08:33, Chris Turnbull said:

Came across a tune I didn't know on Youtube, Shazamed it, bought the vinyl on Discogs (where I could have had about 30 graded copies from rated sellers all over the world), will arrive at my door in the next couple of days

Contrast with pre internet record collecting - got an old notebook I used to write down tunes from Shades of Soul, etc that of course you had no way of hearing unless you went to a night and someone happened to play them (or on the radio I suppose) - used to take the book round with me to record shops hoping to chance upon some of them, and that if I did they'd actually be to my taste, worth buying, that the copy available was in decent nick, that I could play it in the shop, that the price was right, etc

Or buying records blind from trusted dealers ('great beat ballad', etc), or from dealers at niters and hoping they were in good nick

Which do you prefer? Internet taken a lot of the fun out of the record hunting element but wins big time for me in terms of choice, reliability, convenience, etc  

Also interesting how different my record collection is with the ability to pick and choose more easily, rather than just take what you luck upon at a particular time

Any thoughts?

The internet has so changed itself and ourselves over the last 20 years.
I understand internet marketplaces change with politics and economy.
The e market is driven by information and commerce.

So why would record collectors be un affected?

I feel the period when the pound was strong against the dollar and the uk government had no clue how to tax this anomaly was a great time. The government palmed the task of collecting tax to the uk post office who had neither the resources or the man power to be fit for purpose. 

But that was then, structure has been put in place on line to accommodate collecting tax.

This matters as a 50 quid USA purchase is now nearer 80 quid with postage and a 50 quid uk purchase is 52 quid.

Buy ten cheap records......do the math! 

So at this moment for me buying records on the computer from USA is much more expensive than it used to be.

I think our uk dealers are going to do better on cheaper records this year.

[davidwapples]

If a 50 pound record from USA will cost nearer 80 pounds to the UK then it wont be a 50 pound record for long with some dealers lol

[Steveh73]

On 24/03/2021 at 08:47, Chris Turnbull said:

All a bit jumpers for goalposts

For someone like me who doesn't have a grand to spend on JM's auction, the choice, availability, quality, decent prices etc on the internet when you're looking for inexpensive tunes that otherwise could take years to find is more appealing than the long haul game pre-internet

Being able to listen to and appreciate records now is far more important to me than spending months trying to track them down - maybe it's an age thing

Bought loads recently from Chalky's Stafford Modern playlists - Searling, Dave Thorley, etc. Sold a couple on here to make £300 or so, bought the best priced and graded copies on Discogs, had them all delivered within a week or so and able to play and enjoy them straight away.

None cost much more than a tenner but obscure enough that I would have spent a long time trying to track them down pre-internet, and my record collection reflects what I actually want to buy and listen to - happy days 

I've also been trawling and buying from those Stafford modern lists - just so many inexpensive, great major label releases during the first half of the 80s. 

[Dave Pinch]

2 hours ago, davidwapples said:

If a 50 pound record from USA will cost nearer 80 pounds to the UK then it wont be a 50 pound record for long with some dealers lol

this is true..uk dealers will try to push it prices up from £50 to £80.. that said..prices on copies direct from the usa will always be a bit cheaper as they will have to try and incorporate the postage and the taxes into the record to compete.. at least they are in the US and will have sourced the records out in the field or cheaper in the first place

[Soulacola]

another thing the internet has opened up i admit is craigs list in USA.

i just got a bemused guy from Ohio to post me a copy of Crystal Mansion - Somebody outa turn your head around - motown for 10 dollars purchase price and 15 quid snail mail. he also had a tumble dryer listed on same ad. so that makes this a very small world. not sure if its a big saving or not but the whole worldwide web allowed me access to a small town advert in a one horse town id never heard of. id rather dig through a box of records but the ability to do this is simply unbelievable. i mean , thats just  crazy.

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

On 01/04/2021 at 09:22, Soulacola said:

another thing the internet has opened up i admit is craigs list in USA.

i just got a bemused guy from Ohio to post me a copy of Crystal Mansion - Somebody outa turn your head around - motown for 10 dollars purchase price and 15 quid snail mail. he also had a tumble dryer listed on same ad. so that makes this a very small world. not sure if its a big saving or not but the whole worldwide web allowed me access to a small town advert in a one horse town id never heard of. id rather dig through a box of records but the ability to do this is simply unbelievable. i mean , thats just  crazy.

Get him to contact the UK dealers over here and they will sell the Tumble Dryer as an original US issue 

[Mssoulie]

I think the internet has enabled people to build up a lot of knowledge about what to look for and then obviously find it quicker. In 1987 I did a tour of the Great Lakes onboard HMS Fife (RoyalNavy) Calling at St John's,Quebec, Montreal , Toronto.CHICAGO, MILWAUKEE and CLEVELAND. Went in all sorts of record shops especially in Chicago and came back with Fxxk all. Didn't have a clue. 

[Solidsoul]

On 16/05/2021 at 22:39, Mssoulie said:

I think the internet has enabled people to build up a lot of knowledge about what to look for and then obviously find it quicker. In 1987 I did a tour of the Great Lakes onboard HMS Fife (RoyalNavy) Calling at St John's,Quebec, Montreal , Toronto.CHICAGO, MILWAUKEE and CLEVELAND. Went in all sorts of record shops especially in Chicago and came back with Fxxk all. Didn't have a clue. 

I'm sorry you never found anything in the shops in 1987.  But in those pre-internet  days, the people who did know all the great records, got all the great records! 

  They deserved them, as it took many years of study, hard work and dedication to get that knowledge!!

Now people can get that knowledge, without really trying, from the internet and price guides too easy.   They can make a lot of money out of it, without really liking or caring about these great records.

Edited May 18, 2021 by D9 KTF

[Mssoulie]

I agree. Singing every song and dancing to it as I've always done is totally different to knowing who where what and when and because of these people who do know we all get the pleasure out of it.