Private bidder on E-bay when others are not

[Martin Phillips]

Can you explain this to me being a simple soul.There is an item on E-Bay,very rare original which has already far exceeded previous listings for it admittedly it hasn't showed during the last 2 or 3 years.However so far with two days still to go and five bidders one of them is described as a private bidder whereas the others are not. This bidder is determined not to be outbid at any stage preceding the auction.Is this private bidder listing not initiated by the seller unusual or irregular?? I've noted that some sellers go with  private bidding,buyers identity protected  but this seller doesn't use those settings???

[Reforee]

6 minutes ago, Martin Phillips said:

Can you explain this to me being a simple soul.There is an item on E-Bay,very rare original which has already far exceeded previous listings for it admittedly it hasn't showed during the last 2 or 3 years.However so far with two days still to go and five bidders one of them is described as a private bidder whereas the others are not. This bidder is determined not to be outbid at any stage preceding the auction.Is this private bidder listing not initiated by the seller unusual or irregular?? I've noted that some sellers go with  private bidding,buyers identity protected  but this seller doesn't use those settings???

Personally, when private bidders show up I drop out, as I have had so many bid retractions once they know your max bid or they bid you up and then the seller contacts you afterwards to make second chance offer or the winner didn't come up with the winning bid for whatever reason.

I'm a cinic perhaps, but rather that than taken for a fool. 

 

Dave H. 

[Frankie Crocker]

Private Bidders are bad news. I drop out of the running when they appear. I avoid bidding when they are the first to bid. When you think about it, what is the Private Bidder actually trying to conceal? They are an aberration on what should otherwise be an openly acceptable system. The masked ID’s used by eBay should be enough to hide bidders’ details so why allow Private Bidders? The Private Bidder is the fly in the ointment, the person best placed to rig the auction and push prices up without any intention of buying. eBay’s allowance of Private Bidders taints the system and promotes criticism - the very fact that we are discussing the topic tells you there is something very wrong with Private Bidders...

[Martin Phillips]

You've articulated very eloquently what i'm thinking Frankie.I'm not intending to demean the seller from Canada because he seems to have a good track record over multiple listings in the past.The thing is he knows he's sitting on a biggie here or potentially so and already some regular bidders have been sucked in with the so called private bidder steaming in as soon as they make their move!

[Angus]

private bidders-bad news im afraid-dont trust em

personally i think there are far too many ebay sales which are "rigged"-eg shill bidders-look at some of the vg records going through at silly prices-surely there are not that many desperate buyers out there!

[Blackpoolsoul]

16 hours ago, Martin Phillips said:

Can you explain this to me being a simple soul.There is an item on E-Bay,very rare original which has already far exceeded previous listings for it admittedly it hasn't showed during the last 2 or 3 years.However so far with two days still to go and five bidders one of them is described as a private bidder whereas the others are not. This bidder is determined not to be outbid at any stage preceding the auction.Is this private bidder listing not initiated by the seller unusual or irregular?? I've noted that some sellers go with  private bidding,buyers identity protected  but this seller doesn't use those settings???

It's ironic that Ebay decided to use the (Private Bidders) option after they realised that sellers (who had 2 or more copies of something) were contacting and selling there remaining copies to lower bidders and thus avoiding fees.

Always 2 sides to every coin

[Martin Phillips]

The private bidder is the one calling the shots on the record that never sold for more than £300 in the past.On this sale it has already topped £1150.00.Could be that he's genuine and determined to get it but the bidding patterns are very bizarre on this one.I noted that the Canada seller had about 350 buy it now items and only 18 auction lots,the 17 others having little or no interest!!!

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, Martin Phillips said:

The private bidder is the one calling the shots on the record that never sold for more than £300 in the past.On this sale it has already topped £1150.00.Could be that he's genuine and determined to get it but the bidding patterns are very bizarre on this one.I noted that the Canada seller had about 350 buy it now items and only 18 auction lots,the 17 others having little or no interest!!!

Positive Sounds is normally a £250 record and is off the scale at over £1150 something is amiss

[Martin Phillips]

Blackpoolsoul you've nailed it in one sentence there whereas I was waffling all round the houses.It's highly irregularWho in their right mind is going to pay £1150 and counting for a £250 record???

 

[none]

Best no to bid when Private Bidder is involved . Will always edge bit higher . Found it best to wait . One bid . Thought record was worth . Think it's a model or tool used to increase price . 

[Martin Phillips]

Now it's hit $1800 or roughly £1300 with the private bidder involved in a flurry of bids with the other bidder he was doing battle with last night. This is getting more insane than a John Manship auction !

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

Private bidder status was introduced (from memory) years ago because at one point in time you could see who you were bidding against and who had won. Many people were being 'tracked' as to what they were bidding on with other collectors essentially using their knowledge to obtain records. Ebay tried to eliminate this by making the bidders anonymous, as it was raised on some of their forums particularly by many here in the UK as I recall. Therefore I see no reason why they would keep Private Bidders in place now as it leaves the whole system open to abuse. 

The last time I sold a 45 a few years back on Ebay, something fishy went on with a PB, and to this day I still can't figure it out, but I know it happened  It was a relatively cheap item fortunately. 

[none]

Shill Bidding . ?

Copied upon Google search on subject ! 

There are many reasons why sellers list as private. Yes, it can hide shill bidding and it can be for privacy over sensitive items but it can also be that sellers think that their buyers have a right to privacy over anything they buy or even that they don't realise that the box to hide buyers' identities has been ticked. There are even sellers who think that it distinguishes between business and private sellers.

 

I think that many people have discovered that the best defence against being shilled is to bid your absolute maximum as late as you dare so there is no chance for anyone to push up your bid and nibble away to find out your maximum before the auction ends. You don't always win that way but  you do know that you have bid the most you're prepared to pay - no more and no less.

 

 

[Martin Phillips]

Yes of course the best plan of action is to bid as late as possible on this type of auction.In the case in question though a record that you would expect to trade at around 300 pounds max has been dabbled at every seven days prior to the auction at roughly the same time each evening although varying a bit my hunch being that the bids originate overseas possibly Canada the country that the seller hails from  with the private bidder to the fore each time.This jousting has led to the record hitting over 1800 dollars or 1300 pounds to date .Of course they may be perfectly legitimate bidders!

[none]

Possible a vain attempt to price hike . Or an innocent who clearly has no understanding of value of Soul Record . 

Though came across it myself . Complained to Seller who got snotty . EBay should be informed 

[Martin Phillips]

I agree with you on all those points. The fact that he got stroppy when asked a perfectly reasonable question is enlightening but as you say it could just be a naive buyer or actually at least three who are bidding high!!

[none]

Thing is . If he/she the bidder is naive . Bidding as they may or may not have knowledge on said record ! Thus over bidding  . Think Seller needs watching incase they are using some form of alias Shill bidding format . Learnt previously can't bid against Private bidder . Instantly bids higher . 

[Martin Phillips]

Well yes you're right.It's not difficult for a potentially bent/corrupt bidder to hire people,pay them to artificially raise the price on a high end item.Proving it is the tricky bit.It could work in his favour even if all are fake bidders.It only needs one person towards the end of the sale to believe all the preceding bids are legit and think to themselves well this record has escalated in price and is a safe bet!  Looking at his feedback he seems to have a multitude of positive comments but it's hard to gauge as recent ones are not comparable to this.There is only the occasional private buyer showing ,generally for the more expensive items.

[Crogger]

Over the past six months I have experienced the’private bidder’ twice,from the same seller.On the first one I was outbid at the last second by a private bidder,at which point the record had crept into four figures.Next thing I get a message to say the winning bid had fallen through,or words to that effect,so I was offered the record as the under bidder which was $25 less than the supposed winning bid.However the next best bid was some $400 less.After speaking to a good friend of mine,I decided not to take the offer up.A couple of months later a similar thing happened,this time the values were about half the previous example,I,again declined. I did buy a record from this seller,subsequently,at a reasonable price but my benchmark was the previous gripsweat sale price “sold” by the same seller.It appears that the two records were one and the same,the listed record actually being unsold but remaining listed on gripsweat at the price it supposedly fetched.In my opinion I would give anything with private bidder in the mix,a wide berth.

[Frankie Crocker]

32 minutes ago, crogger said:

Over the past six months I have experienced the’private bidder’ twice,from the same seller.On the first one I was outbid at the last second by a private bidder,at which point the record had crept into four figures.Next thing I get a message to say the winning bid had fallen through,or words to that effect,so I was offered the record as the under bidder which was $25 less than the supposed winning bid.However the next best bid was some $400 less.After speaking to a good friend of mine,I decided not to take the offer up.A couple of months later a similar thing happened,this time the values were about half the previous example,I,again declined. I did buy a record from this seller,subsequently,at a reasonable price but my benchmark was the previous gripsweat sale price “sold” by the same seller.It appears that the two records were one and the same,the listed record actually being unsold but remaining listed on gripsweat at the price it supposedly fetched.In my opinion I would give anything with private bidder in the mix,a wide berth.

You were wise to decline the fake offers. The Second Chance offer is a scam as the price is determined by the high fake value rather than the lower third bidder’s figure.

On the subject of the record under discussion, the bids are clearly suspicious so I would advise not getting involved. Look at other records the seller has for sale - there are only a couple bid on and one has a Private Bidder. If there were several good records up for auction, you would probably see Private Bidders shilling on all of them.

[Winsford Soul]

A good friend of mine was outbid two year ago on  a Marcia Hines.  Wizard 7" on  ebay Australia from a private bidder.. He was actually buying it me for my 60th birthday which would have been a amazing gift but it obviously wasn't too be. 

Ste 

[Benji]

Speaking of shill bidding, does anyone know if buyers shill bidding still happening on Ebay US?

If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's a buyer using a 2nd (fake) account to raise bids way above any reasonable price to block other bidders.

E.g.:

Seller posts an indemand 45, value say $200 on Ebay, auction starts at $1.00

Buyer A bids $450 straight away. Buyer A is first bidder, so auction is still at $1.00

Buyer A then uses another account, Buyer B, usually fake account, to bid on the auction, in smaller increases to disguise, and raises the price up to say $400.

$400 is twice the going rate so nobody else bothers to bid.

Right before end of auction fake account retracts bid, price falls back down t $1.00. Buyer A wins @ $1.00

I know this happened years ago when I was still active on Ebay US. But is it still happening nowadays?

Some of these shill bidders even waited for real accounts to bid up to a reasonable amount, say $40 in my example before they went it.

 

[Martin Phillips]

Well on this Canada auction surprise surprise the private bidder had done his/her  leg work in the preceding seven days.So the Positive Sounds record had attained $1802 and then right at the end another bidder swooped supposedly to nab it for $1827.What do the coloured stars in brackets signify ? Does it denote the country of origin of the bidder? I've never really paid much attention to it despite bidding on many auctions!

[Frankie Crocker]

1 minute ago, Martin Phillips said:

Well on this Canada auction surprise surprise the private bidder had done his/her  leg work in the preceding seven days.So the Positive Sounds record had attained $1802 and then right at the end another bidder swooped supposedly to nab it for $1827.What do the coloured stars in brackets signify ? Does it denote the country of origin of the bidder? I've never really paid much attention to it despite bidding on many auctions!

The coloured stars relate to the seller’s rating. This reflects their level of eBay activity and can be analysed to check on the number of transactions and withdrawn bids. The star rating gives an idea of what sort of competition you are up against so it can be used to shape a bidding strategy. The numbers and letters with dashes in between mask the bidder’s ID but they can change making it trickier to monitor the winning bidder.

[Martin Phillips]

Oh thanks.I didn't know that.The winning bidder held a red star rating. .Never analysed that aspect of it.

[Agent45]

Aren't all bidders de facto "private" now anyway? All you see is something like d***8 and a feedback score, right? I mean, I suppose you may be able to suss an account by the feedback rating. The only time I see the word private on a listing, it's someone who has made their feedback private. Am I missing something?

To a couple of the other points in this thread, I very seldom see bid retractions these days. If I list ~200 items a month, maybe I see one retraction every other round of auctions. I also get, on average, 1-3 orders per month that go unpaid. I usually don't offer to the 2nd high bidder, I just put the record on Discogs or re-list on eBay later. My success rate on second chance offers has been low for years, probably due to some of the trust issues expressed above, so I basically quit bothering. 

Maybe bad to say as a seller, but when I bid I don't use a sniping tool but I do wait until the last possible moment to submit my bid. I don't understand the posturing and incremental bids and treat a 7 day auction as 6 days of free/cheap advertising to get eyeballs, with one day of action. That said, I guess if a record starts getting early traction, it also might also help get more attention. I'm not an auction or marketing genius, I just like digging for records.

[Merve]

On 26/03/2021 at 03:09, Agent45 said:

Aren't all bidders de facto "private" now anyway? All you see is something like d***8 and a feedback score, right? I mean, I suppose you may be able to suss an account by the feedback rating. The only time I see the word private on a listing, it's someone who has made their feedback private. Am I missing something?

To a couple of the other points in this thread, I very seldom see bid retractions these days. If I list ~200 items a month, maybe I see one retraction every other round of auctions. I also get, on average, 1-3 orders per month that go unpaid. I usually don't offer to the 2nd high bidder, I just put the record on Discogs or re-list on eBay later. My success rate on second chance offers has been low for years, probably due to some of the trust issues expressed above, so I basically quit bothering. 

Maybe bad to say as a seller, but when I bid I don't use a sniping tool but I do wait until the last possible moment to submit my bid. I don't understand the posturing and incremental bids and treat a 7 day auction as 6 days of free/cheap advertising to get eyeballs, with one day of action. That said, I guess if a record starts getting early traction, it also might also help get more attention. I'm not an auction or marketing genius, I just like digging for records.

With regard to the sniping tool, I use it occasionally as it suits me not to sit up till silly o'clock waiting for the last couple of minutes of an auction......... I'm reluctant to place my highest bid early too, because I get carried away if I get outbid by a couple of quid & then spend the rest of the day calling myself a t**t for overpaying ! 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Merve