Philly International - The Rare & The Good

[Guest]

BE THANKFUL - intruders - p.i.r.

from the "Energy of Love" lp Derek

 

[Steve Plumb]

Another 'un

City Limits - Words without love - TSOP LP track (LP called 'Circles')

Monster 70's dancer! Played sporadically at quality venues BUT still to have it's day methinks

I believe there's no 12"/45 of this (unless Mr Rounce has found an Outer Mongolian picture cover 45) (hee hee)

Cheers

Steve

[Guest Niki]

Morning all,

Feel the need to stick my two pennoth in here as I am a total Philly junkie. I spent a few years collecting the PIR and TSOP album discographies as I found them cheap in junk shops etc. When Nelly (aka Neil Forbes or TSU Tomatoes) and I got together and the great record collection merge ocurred (!) he filled in some of the gaps and then when we realised that we only had a dozen left to get, we hit Ebay & Gemm and completed the collection. Sad but true. So if there are any soundclips you're after....

We haven't embarked on the single discography yet, but do have most (we think) of the obscure single only rarities. Some of these are BAD and I don't mean good bad but truly atrocious. The very first PIR single release Gideon Smith "Arkansas Wife b/w When Two Worlds Collide" springs to mind (country & western) as well as a couple you have mentioned before e.g. Jocko "Rocketship" aaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhh.

Anyway here's my recommendations for a couple of the rarer singles from the PIR/TSOP camp:

Love Committee - Darling Come Back Home - TSOP 1975

Kaleidoscope - We're Not Getting Any Younger - TSOP

The Futures - Stay With Me - Gamble 1972

Soul Survivors - City of Brotherly Love - TSOP

and a couple of recommendations for magnificent cheapies:

The O'Jays - This Air I Breathe - PIR 1973 (b-side of Put Your Heads Together)

The Intruders - Hang On In There - PIR 1973 (b-side of I Wanna Know Your Name)

Niki

[Steve Plumb]

People's Choice - Soft & Tender - PIR US 45

Used to think this was a killer stepper - Not played it for yonks BUT it came into me head a minute ago!

Need to dig it out and see if the grooves haven't changed in the 45 over the years (that does happen - honest!) and it still is a lovely 'Silk' type stepper

Cheers

Steve

[Guest Niki]

I know I'm not uploading these properly, perhaps someone can put me right?

 

[Guest Niki]

People's Choice - Soft & Tender - PIR US 45

Used to think this was a killer stepper - Not played it for yonks BUT it came into me head a minute ago!

Need to dig it out and see if the grooves haven't changed in the 45 over the years (that does happen - honest!) and it still is a lovely 'Silk' type stepper

Cheers

Steve

There's not too much can compete with a fine Philly stepper.... ^_^

[Guest Dodger]

Another 'un

City Limits - Words without love - TSOP LP track (LP called 'Circles')

Cheers

Steve

Quality track, and indeed I believe the copy I have was rescued from the sales box of one S. Plumb Esq. at some dodgy seaside hotel on the East Coast a few years ago.

[Karlm]

Niki some great recommendations there!

I have the demos of Kaleidoscope and Love Comittee TSOP 45's - anyone here with issues that can tell me what the b-sides like?

Love Comittee "Darling come back home" is one awesome track, first heard it on a cd from Steve Harry (are you on here Steve?). One of my favourite groups!

[Guest Adrian]

I have the demos of Kaleidoscope and Love Comittee TSOP 45's - anyone here with issues that can tell me what the b-sides like?

I got issues of both Kaleidoscope 45's.

4770 I'm A Changed Person / Thank You

4765 I Wanna Live for You / Were Not Getting Any Younger

Both are well worthwhile imho, I'm A Changed Person is excellent, mainly male vocals with abit of female interplay, pretty typical philly really, from memory written by Norman Harris.

Same can be said about I Wanna Live for You, if you like your philly you can't go wrong Karl.

Keep meaning to get these on the wifes ipod so if I get my arse in gear tonight I'll post up some clips.

She loves her philly dancers, which inturn gives me a nice excuse to keep buying

[Guest]

just got to be more careful is in the book at £50 ,but i have never seen it on the issue and i know i have not seen many about,do many people know this?

BAZ A.

Just sold off the site in Jan 07

CarolineCrawford - JUST GOT TO BE MORE CAREFUL c/w SAVING ALL THE LOVE I GOT FOR PIR 3553 £15

we've had 4 copies in recent months, would suggest not super-rare but i have " Just Got To Be More Careful"

The PIR Anthony White stock copies getting mentioned, they certainly are tough 2find

Edited February 1, 2007 by john manship

[Karlm]

I got issues of both Kaleidoscope 45's.

4770 I'm A Changed Person / Thank You

4765 I Wanna Live for You / Were Not Getting Any Younger

Both are well worthwhile imho, I'm A Changed Person is excellent, mainly male vocals with abit of female interplay, pretty typical philly really, from memory written by Norman Harris.

Same can be said about I Wanna Live for You, if you like your philly you can't go wrong Karl.

Keep meaning to get these on the wifes ipod so if I get my arse in gear tonight I'll post up some clips.

She loves her philly dancers, which inturn gives me a nice excuse to keep buying

Thanks Adrian! Will keep an eye out for those two - I always "upgrade" to issues when I find them. Demos are evil.

[Souljazera]

the elliot hoffman is a great soul record...not a DANCER more a thinking man's record....and should certainly not be disregarded...

[Steve G]

"Never let you get away from me" Dont see it very often on 45!

It is excellent but the beggers cut 2 mins off the recording. I managed to get an acetate of this that's almost 5 mins long!

[Steve G]

the elliot hoffman is a great soul record...not a DANCER more a thinking man's record....and should certainly not be disregarded...

Oh God I am outnumbered on this by you and the Plumbmeister then

I'll give it another play and a revisit then

[Daved]

I've got quite a few Philly white demo doubles. If anyone fancies a swap, please send me a pm.

[Steve G]

Blimey I'm late for work now...another great one...'Jam Jam Jam (All Night Long)' from Peoples Choice.

Excellent selection and a monster back in the day!

[Steve G]

Morning all,

We haven't embarked on the single discography yet, but do have most (we think) of the obscure single only rarities. Some of these are BAD and I don't mean good bad but truly atrocious. The very first PIR single release Gideon Smith "Arkansas Wife b/w When Two Worlds Collide" springs to mind (country & western) as well as a couple you have mentioned before e.g. Jocko "Rocketship" aaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhh.

Niki

Hi ya Niki,

There is some crap on the label as well that's for sure. Maybe I'll start a new thread - Poor Philadelphia Still think the poor is outnumbered by the good though...

[Guest]

Thanks Adrian! Will keep an eye out for those two - I always "upgrade" to issues when I find them. Demos are evil.

I've always been a bit weird about collecting 'demos'. Iit smacks a bit of 'I've got this on a demo which makes me part of a very special group of people because only special people like DJ's and radio stations got them'.

Demos generally aren't very colourful are they and look a bit dull especially if you have loads and loads of them !

I wonder if they'll be a collectors interest in demo mp.3's in ten years time?

[ockers]

Morning all,

Feel the need to stick my two pennoth in here as I am a total Philly junkie. I spent a few years collecting the PIR and TSOP album discographies as I found them cheap in junk shops etc. When Nelly (aka Neil Forbes or TSU Tomatoes) and I got together and the great record collection merge ocurred (!) he filled in some of the gaps and then when we realised that we only had a dozen left to get, we hit Ebay & Gemm and completed the collection. Sad but true. So if there are any soundclips you're after....

We haven't embarked on the single discography yet, but do have most (we think) of the obscure single only rarities. Some of these are BAD and I don't mean good bad but truly atrocious. The very first PIR single release Gideon Smith "Arkansas Wife b/w When Two Worlds Collide" springs to mind (country & western) as well as a couple you have mentioned before e.g. Jocko "Rocketship" aaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhh.

Anyway here's my recommendations for a couple of the rarer singles from the PIR/TSOP camp:

Love Committee - Darling Come Back Home - TSOP 1975

Kaleidoscope - We're Not Getting Any Younger - TSOP

The Futures - Stay With Me - Gamble 1972

Soul Survivors - City of Brotherly Love - TSOP

and a couple of recommendations for magnificent cheapies:

The O'Jays - This Air I Breathe - PIR 1973 (b-side of Put Your Heads Together)

The Intruders - Hang On In There - PIR 1973 (b-side of I Wanna Know Your Name)

Niki

dropped the ojays on shaun robbins show earlier last year

a £2 special from records and relics in blackpool last year wonderfull philly

must track sown city limits track not heard that one

enjoyed the philly show in december niki top stuff

[Steve Plumb]

Oh God I am outnumbered on this by you and the Plumbmeister then

I'll give it another play and a revisit then

wahay - get back to them shelves matey

don't think Philly, don't think monster and you'll be reet

in fact, you might wanna play it on Saturday afternoon at Yarmouth, just after the footie results

or maybe not!

Cheers

Steve

[Steve Plumb]

Quality track, and indeed I believe the copy I have was rescued from the sales box of one S. Plumb Esq. at some dodgy seaside hotel on the East Coast a few years ago.

Nice one Dodge...............purchased as part of the deal that saw Troy Johnson go from the Wirrall to Lancs (or was that another deal?)

Anyway it was done on the last day of the transfer window and i think an Opus 9 had to be thrown in at the last minute as a sweetener to make the deal work

Cheers

Steve

[Steve Plumb]

There's not too much can compete with a fine Philly stepper.... ^_^

You are the original 'Fine Filly Stepper'

[Guest Niki]

Niki some great recommendations there!

I have the demos of Kaleidoscope and Love Comittee TSOP 45's - anyone here with issues that can tell me what the b-sides like?

Love Comittee "Darling come back home" is one awesome track, first heard it on a cd from Steve Harry (are you on here Steve?). One of my favourite groups!

Hi Karl,

4764 Love Committee - One Dozen Roses b/w Darling Come Back Home

One Dozen Roses was also issued on both PIR (UK 3035) and Golden Fleece (US 3256) as a b-side to One Day Of Peace.

[Guest Dodger]

Nice one Dodge...............purchased as part of the deal that saw Troy Johnson go from the Wirrall to Lancs (or was that another deal?)

Anyway it was done on the last day of the transfer window and i think an Opus 9 had to be thrown in at the last minute as a sweetener to make the deal work

Cheers

Steve

Indeed it was, and as it turned out (6 months later when I got round to playing other tracks aside from 'I Love You' and 'The Way You Move Me') it was the end of a three year search for an amazing track I had been given on a tape without a tracklisting that had the lyrics 'Big Brother' in it. Oh how I danced and shouted in my lounge on that day when I found 'Hey Big Brother' on that very LP that had been sitting there for 6 months without me even realising!!

By the way, I know that records go up in price over time . . . . but do the titles as well? When I bought the album it was by Opus SEVEN!!

[Guest Niki]

Darling Come Back Home - love committee - tsop

 

Sorry for the duplication. Thanks Si for the heads up.

This is worth uploading again. Trust me, it gets better every time you listen to it.

[Guest]

Does anyone know the chronology of the labels, i.e. PIR TSOP ect and when they switched from Columbia to there own label in the UK ?

Is The Jacksons 'Show You The Way To Go' a Philly International recording?

Can we start talking about the pre PIR 'Neptune' records too? And earlier things on the 'Gamble' label? Can we go back to things on Fairmount and even Cameo and Parkway?

[Guest Niki]

Hi ya Niki,

There is some crap on the label as well that's for sure. Maybe I'll start a new thread - Poor Philadelphia Still think the poor is outnumbered by the good though...

Hi Steve,

Oh undoubtedly the good far outweighs the bad. It wouldn't have been worth us collecting the whole catalogue if it was all rubbish . Now what about this Elliot Hoffman? Haven't got that one... is it worth shelling out for?

[Guest Niki]

ockers said:

dropped the ojays on shaun robbins show earlier last year

a £2 special from records and relics in blackpool last year wonderfull philly

must track sown city limits track not heard that one

enjoyed the philly show in december niki top stuff

Hi Sean,

The O'Jays did some brilliant stuff on PIR. Mind you there are (I think) 17 LPs to choose from.

Here's the link to the download for the Philly special if anyone wants to get it. Be warned it's 246Mb - a 3 hour mp3

 

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Does anyone know the chronology of the labels, i.e. PIR TSOP ect and when they switched from Columbia to there own label in the UK ?

Is The Jacksons 'Show You The Way To Go' a Philly International recording?

Can we start talking about the pre PIR 'Neptune' records too? And earlier things on the 'Gamble' label? Can we go back to things on Fairmount and even Cameo and Parkway?

Si,

First G & H-owned label was 1966' Excel - changed its name, after one release, to Gamble when an already existing Excel label voiced their objections.

Then you had -

Gamble (1966-74)

Neptune (1969-70)

Huff Puff (1969)

Philadelphia International (1971 - 89)

North Bay (1972)

TSOP - started as a successor to Gamble (1974-81)

Golden Fleece (1973-74) - a boutique label for the productions of Baker/Harris/Young

Peace International (1981)

...and I think that's it in respect of owned labels. Of course, the work of G & H also appeared on amny other labels besides these.

The Jacksons' first two Epic albums were actually both Philadelphia International albums, in that they were recorded at Sigma Sound in their entirety. (My single of "Enjoy Yourself" has a PIR 'ying-yang' logo on the label next to the Epic one). I believe that, when they left Motown, Kenneth Gamble tried to sign them directly to PIR, but Epic outbid him at the last moment. Getting to produce the first two albums (both of which are very good) was G & H's 'compensation' for having their deal scuppered at the last minute.

TONE

PS - almost forgot - the PIR logo was established here pretty early on - I have a feeling that TSOP by MFSB might have been the first 45 to bear the legendary logo on this side of the pond. Prior to that, the few titles that came out seem to be arbitrarily divided between CBS (the O'Jays, HM and the B's, the Ebonys) and Epic (Billy Paul, Johnny Williams, Dick Jensen, Bunny Sigler). I don;t have a clue what the thought process was there!

Edited February 1, 2007 by TONY ROUNCE

[Guest Niki]

You are the original 'Fine Filly Stepper'

Seriously cheesy mate!!!

At the moment I'm more of a waddler than a stepper

[Guest Niki]

Si,

First G & H-owned label was 1966' Excel - changed its name, after one release, to Gamble when an already existing Excel label voiced their objections.

Then you had -

Gamble (1966-74)

Neptune (1969-70)

Huff Puff (1969)

Philadelphia International (1971 - 89)

North Bay (1972)

TSOP - started as a successor to Gamble (1974-81)

Golden Fleece (1973-74) - a boutique label for the productions of Baker/Harris/Young

Peace International (1981)

...and I think that's it in respect of owned labels. Of course, the work of G & H also appeared on amny other labels besides these.

The Jacksons' first two Epic albums were actually both Philadelphia International albums, in that they were recorded at Sigma Sound in their entirety. (My single of "Enjoy Yourself" has a PIR 'ying-yang' logo on the label next to the Epic one). I believe that, when they left Motown, Kenneth Gamble tried to sign them directly to PIR, but Epic outbid him at the last moment. Getting to produce the first two albums (both of which are very good) was G & H's 'compensation' for having their deal scuppered at the last minute.

TONE

PS - almost forgot - the PIR logo was established here pretty early on - I have a feeling that TSOP by MFSB might have been the first 45 to bear the legendary logo on this side of the pond. Prior to that, the few titles that came out seem to be arbitrarily divided between CBS (the O'Jays, HM and the B's, the Ebonys) and Epic (Billy Paul, Johnny Williams, Dick Jensen, Bunny Sigler). I don;t have a clue what the thought process was there!

Hi Tone,

There is also "Tommy" label from around 1974 distributed by CBS. Not sure how much was put out on the label - I've only got the "Force Of Nature" LP and a single taken from the LP. All Sigma Sound/Mighty Three Music with KZ / ZS8 catalogue numbers.

And "Gamble and Huff" label from around 1987 with some iffy Lou Rawls releases....

All the Jacksons PIR releases on Epic also have the PIR 'double P' logo on them, so can legitimately be classed as PIR releases.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Niki

[Richard]

at i dont think been mentioned... Force Of Nature "baby im yours" got Jimmy bishop back wid kenny Gamble here!... and Richard... a sound clip for ya!

steve

Thats nice and have found a copy but just noticed its on another serial number of 4213. is 4213 a reissue/later or UK issue????

Sorry to be a pain but anyone got the answer????

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Hi Tone,

There is also "Tommy" label from around 1974 distributed by CBS. Not sure how much was put out on the label - I've only got the "Force Of Nature" LP and a single taken from the LP. All Sigma Sound/Mighty Three Music with KZ / ZS8 catalogue numbers.

And "Gamble and Huff" label from around 1987 with some iffy Lou Rawls releases....

All the Jacksons PIR releases on Epic also have the PIR 'double P' logo on them, so can legitimately be classed as PIR releases.

I also forgot about "Thunder", which was Thom Bell's label and which ran to three releases in 1974-5

5251: Derek And Cyndi - You Bring Out The Best In Me/I'll Do The Impossible For You (also issued in the UK)

5252: Derek And Cyndi - Daddy had To Go/On The Ladder To Love

5253: Michael Walker - I Got The Notion, You Got The Motion Parts 1 & 2

I really love the last one, it's not very Philly but it's the original version of the Al Hudson track on ABC and MW is Phillippe Wynne's brother, apparently.

Tommy ran to 5 releases:

1751: Bobby Taylor: I Can't Quit Your Love/Queen Of the Ghetto

1752: Thunder And Lightnin': Old Man/Good old Rock 'n' Roll Feelin' (sounds like a 'must have', no?)

1753: Marbleheart: Jaws Of Love/Rainbow Baby

1754: Force Of Nature: Fool's Wonderland/Jaws Of Love

1755: Force Of Nature: Little Bit Of Nothing/Simba

I have three singles on "Gamble & Huff", two by Lou Rawls and the excellent "Run Jesse Run" by Lou, Phyllis Hyman and Rev James Cleveland.

Too many pints at lunchtime will make you forget this sort of thing too easily...

TONE

Edited February 1, 2007 by TONY ROUNCE

[Sean Hampsey]

First became fascinated when I bought the O'Jays superb "Time To Get Down" on UK CBS.

Inscribed in italics in the matrix was the legend "Philly Soul".

Already had "I Dig Your Act" and "Backstabbers" by these guys but I bought everything O'Jays and Philly I could find released on these shores therafter.

Big up for... the aforementioned...

O'Jays "Time To Get Down" UK CBS

Johnny Williams "Put It In Motion" UK Epic

Ebonys "Sexy Ways" UK CBS & UK Epic (if my memory serves me right)

O'Jays "People Keep Telling Me" UK & US Phil Int

Also check out the UK Epic / US Neptune "O'Jays In Philadelphia" LP which includes most of the O'Jays Neptune material and the otherwise unavailable.... simply magnificent.... "It's Too Strong".

Great thread.

Sean

[Stillsoulin]

Talking of Neptune lp,s The New Direction NLPS-200 is worth picking up for Teardrops and Heartaches, lovely ballad in the 5th Dimension mould, and a cheap lp to pick up too

rob h.

[Garethx]

The New Direction's Teardrops & Heartaches is a beautiful record: an Anthony Newley song if I remember rightly. There is a wonderful unreleased version of this by Carl Hall which Richard Searling used to feature on his radio show from time to time.

[Stillsoulin]

Teardrops and Heartaches credited to Long/Roark on the lp, there is a track, Feeling Good, credited to Anthony Newley do you mean that?

rob h

[Garethx]

You are completely correct, I just had a mental image of the label and the Anthony Newley credit. The Newley thing is the standard, Feeling Good. Most of the album comprises covers of pop songs. Does anyone know who recorded Teardrops and Heartaches first? The Roark credit is the publisher: it was written by Evon Rosalie Long.

Edited February 1, 2007 by garethx

[Steve Edgar]

QUOTE(Soul-Integrity @ Jan 31 2007, 11:21 PM) Baby Im Yours - force of nature - pir

One that i dont think been mentioned... Force Of Nature "baby im yours" got Jimmy bishop back wid kenny Gamble here!... and Richard... a sound clip for ya!

steve

Thats nice and have found a copy but just noticed its on another serial number of 4213. is 4213 a reissue/later or UK issue????

Sorry to be a pain but anyone got the answer????

Don't know bout a reissue, Has the one ya found got a scan? mebs the listing has incorrect number? 4213 doesn't sound like a US number to me. Mebs a foreign issue or something?

(not much help I know! soz)

steve

[Steve Edgar]

TONE

PS - almost forgot - the PIR logo was established here pretty early on - I have a feeling that TSOP by MFSB might have been the first 45 to bear the legendary logo on this side of the pond. Prior to that, the few titles that came out seem to be arbitrarily divided between CBS (the O'Jays, HM and the B's, the Ebonys) and Epic (Billy Paul, Johnny Williams, Dick Jensen, Bunny Sigler). I don;t have a clue what the thought process was there!

Was Harold Melvin's sides "The Love I lost" and "Satisfaction Guaranteed" prior to TSOP by MFSB? the label numbers are before being 1879 and 2187, with tsop being 2289, or are they taken from the US releases?

steve

[Richard]

Don't know bout a reissue, Has the one ya found got a scan? mebs the listing has incorrect number? 4213 doesn't sound like a US number to me. Mebs a foreign issue or something?

(not much help I know! soz)

steve

Aha, found this thinks it's Italian but then again says made in England (think I'm more confused now)

Label: Made In: united kingdom

Media: 7" Condition: VG/EX Release: PIR4213

Description: * ITALY PHILADELPHIA RECORDS

Edited February 1, 2007 by richard

[Steve Edgar]

Does anyone know the chronology of the labels, i.e. PIR TSOP ect and when they switched from Columbia to there own label in the UK ?

Is The Jacksons 'Show You The Way To Go' a Philly International recording?

Can we start talking about the pre PIR 'Neptune' records too? And earlier things on the 'Gamble' label? Can we go back to things on Fairmount and even Cameo and Parkway?

Agree! ya can't talk bout Philly Int, without talkin bout Neptune imo. Chess/ GRT mustav been a bit cheesed off when they dumped Neptune in their label rationalisation, then seen what messers Gamble & Huff acheived at Philly Int! some fantastic sides on Neptune "The Land Of Giants" and "The Sound Of Philadelphia"

steve

[Steve Edgar]

Hi Sean,

The O'Jays did some brilliant stuff on PIR. Mind you there are (I think) 17 LPs to choose from.

Here's the link to the download for the Philly special if anyone wants to get it. Be warned it's 246Mb - a 3 hour mp3

https://s28.quicksharing.com/v/6573417/Xmas...191206.mp3.html

A brilliant O'jays cheapie worth pickin up is "People Keep Telling Me" flip to "For The Love Of Money" from 1973, off their "Seminal" Lp "Ship Ahoy" (My favorite LP by them) Got this 45 on what must be a re-issue, as it's got a bar code on the label, and says "sony music entertainment"???

steve

[Steve Edgar]

People Keep Tellin Me - o'jays - pir

steve

 

 

[Guest sydney bridge]

Try Robert Upchurch "The Devil Made Me Do It" on Golden Fleece

Ken put a nice Love Committee Golden Fleece track up a couple of months ago, sounded good

Cheers Paul

we love this one dont we mr.shrew?found my mint copy replacement for an old scratchy one at a st.albans car boot last year (on british pir) 50p thankyou very much.

[Guest mel brat]

"Never Repay Your Love" was originally recorded by The Detroit Spinners I believe, and Phillipe Wynne takes some beating I don't mind telling ya!

Edited February 2, 2007 by mel brat

[Richard]

A brilliant O'jays cheapie worth pickin up is "People Keep Telling Me" flip to "For The Love Of Money" from 1973, off their "Seminal" Lp "Ship Ahoy" (My favorite LP by them) Got this 45 on what must be a re-issue, as it's got a bar code on the label, and says "sony music entertainment"???

steve

Another really good very cheapie is their version of This Time Baby on the flip of Used Ta Be My Girl, much better than Jackie Moore IMHO

Edited February 2, 2007 by richard

[Guest]

One to avoid....Lenny Pakula "Mr Record Compamy Man/Don't Let It Get You Down"

Can anyone confirm that Harold Melvins 'Don't Leave Me This Way' wasn't released on a 45 in the US until after Thelma Houstons version was a hit ?

[Richard]

Here is a link to the O'Jays website https://theojayshomepage.com/ may be of interest to some people

[Dave Thorley]

Just love these Euro picture bags, Germany one