The Anderson Brothers - The Way It Is - GSF B Side

[Ian Dewhirst]

Does it exist? If so, has anyone heard it? If it doesn't exist then someone went to a lot of trouble mocking up a 'B' side! 

Ian D

 

[Mick Holdsworth]

I found an image on the net of both sides, and posted them up on Soulsource a fair few years back. Could never find them again. I personally don't think it's real, but yours seems better quality than what I remember.

[Mick Holdsworth]

Just noticed someone has put it on Discogs - apparently bagpussprince on discogs has a copy.

 

[Ian Dewhirst]

4 hours ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

Just noticed someone has put it on Discogs - apparently bagpussprince on discogs has a copy.

 

Yep. That's where I saw it. Looks legit to me. 

[Soulstrutter]

16 hours ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

Just noticed someone has put it on Discogs - apparently bagpussprince on discogs has a copy.

 

I contacted bagpussprince asking if they could confirm whether record exists (as she was only user to 'Have' it) and the reply was that she DIDN'T own it and response was:
"Computer glitch nothing more i wish"

I also contacted the guy who posted it on Discogs (bobhalverson) and he replied:
"If your question is, "Do I have the record and can I confirm its existence", the answer is "No".
I believe I obtained the image from the following:

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/forums/topic/417374-the-anderson-brothers-the-way-it-is-gsf-b-side/

Like you, I was suspicious if it was an actual stock issue or a boot, which was why I included a note to that effect..."

...so it looks like it's gone full circle ... and we're still none the wiser!

Edited February 25, 2021 by Soulstrutter

[Soulstrutter]

My two pen'orth, (and I by no means claim to be an expert) .... but looking into it further the label just looks 'wrong' compared to other releases the same year - all the others (from 6906) have the cat no on right not left (although earlier ones do have it on left), it's also a different layout to the promo and the colour doesn't look right - looks like it's been printed with cheap dot matrix pritner (but could just be a poor scan?).

Another 'minor' detail, all others (I have checked so far) have GSF RECORDS, INC. i.e. a comma after RECORDS and period after INC - this one doesn't although I can't quite make it out fully from the blurred image, but it doesn't look like there's either on this 'issue'. 

[Ian Dewhirst]

I've just done a cursory search of the BMI and ASCAP databases and can't turn up anything on the song. That scan is not so clear on the writer. Is it Bill White? Either way I'm not getting a hit on anything.........

Ian D

 

[Soulstrutter]

17 minutes ago, Ian Dewhirst said:

I've just done a cursory search of the BMI and ASCAP databases and can't turn up anything on the song. That scan is not so clear on the writer. Is it Bill White? Either way I'm not getting a hit on anything.........

Ian D

 

Hi Ian .. yeah I did the same .. assumed it was Bill White too, and found nothing ... only Ray Dahrouge's version of the top side. I found about 112 entries for' The Way It Is' but couldn't link any to Bill (or William) White, and neither of these tracks are linked to Anderson Brothers on there - so all a bit inconclusive

https://repertoire.bmi.com/Search/Search?SearchForm.View_Count=100&SearchForm.Main_Search=ISWC&SearchForm.Main_Search_Text=T9028923173&SearchForm.Search_Type=bmi

[John Benson]

Probably already thought of, but is anyone in contact with Ray Dahrouge?
Maybe that would shed some light on the flip side, if one really exists at all 

[Soulstrutter]

16 hours ago, John Benson said:

Probably already thought of, but is anyone in contact with Ray Dahrouge?
Maybe that would shed some light on the flip side, if one really exists at all 

Hi John - I seem to recall possibly seeing that on here previously, somewhere, and from recollection he didn't know .. but may be wrong - worth a search though!

[Andy Rix]

I called Dennis Anderson yesterday to ask him but he didn't pick up .. I'll keep trying to see if he can remember what they recorded for the B side

Andy

[Simon T]

8 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

I called Dennis Anderson yesterday to ask him but he didn't pick up .. I'll keep trying to see if he can remember what they recorded for the B side

Andy

Was it you who thought Pete Hallis(?) from Spalding had one or was a different record?

i think that scan is for real.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Simon T

[Andy Rix]

Yes I’m sure Pete had one ... I remember being surprised to see it .. but it might be a false memory!

[Simon T]

5 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

Yes I’m sure Pete had one ... I remember being surprised to see it .. but it might be a false memory!

It might be 40+ years ago, but i remember you telling me he had an issue.

[Andy Rix]

17 minutes ago, Simon T said:

It might be 40+ years ago, but i remember you telling me he had an issue.

It would have been at least 40 years ago ... 78 or thereabouts ... I was still living at my parents .. I left in 81 ... in the same pile of 45s was a Del Larks with a damaged label that had been repaired, Joann Courcey on Twirl, Major Harris on Okeh  ... so my memory of it actually is pretty sharp

A

[Simon T]

24 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

It would have been at least 40 years ago ... 78 or thereabouts ... I was still living at my parents .. I left in 81 ... in the same pile of 45s was a Del Larks with a damaged label that had been repaired, Joann Courcey on Twirl, Major Harris on Okeh  ... so my memory of it actually is pretty sharp

A

Not this one was it? Ouch!

[Soulstrutter]

On 26/02/2021 at 22:22, John Benson said:

Probably already thought of, but is anyone in contact with Ray Dahrouge?
Maybe that would shed some light on the flip side, if one really exists at all 

I thought i'd seen something about it before it's in this thread:

 

[Simon T]

If an issue did exist, and i think it does, would anyone like to hazard a guess as to what it's value would be?

[John Benson]

10 hours ago, Soulstrutter said:

I thought i'd seen something about it before it's in this thread:

 

Yep, as I suggested, it was already thought of then!

What do I know... I also contributed to that thread as well, over 5 years back

[Ian Dewhirst]

On 26/02/2021 at 22:22, John Benson said:

Probably already thought of, but is anyone in contact with Ray Dahrouge?
Maybe that would shed some light on the flip side, if one really exists at all 

Yep. Andy Lett contacted him as a result of the previous S.S. thread which I've just re-read. The 'B' side song was written by his wife under her maiden name, Michelle White:-

"ANDY, AFTER I MADE DEAL WITH G.S.F PRES. LARRY NEWTON (FORMER PRES. OF A B C PARAMOUNT REC. RAY CHARLES, CURTIS MAYFIELD ,& IMPRESSIONS, ARTISTS, ETC. ) I WENT HOME & WROTE B SIDE WITH MY WIFE MICHELE. I DON'T RECALL TITLE OR IF IT WAS EVER ON A RECORD. RELEASE".

So, whether the scans are fake or not, the 'B' side info on the scan would seem to concurr with Ray Dahrouge's memory. That means that whoever made the scan would have to have had some pretty good info on the writer!

Original post here:

 

 

 

[John Benson]

1 hour ago, Ian Dewhirst said:

Yep. Andy Lett contacted him as a result of the previous S.S. thread which I've just re-read. The 'B' side song was written by his wife under her maiden name, Michelle White:-

Yes, I spotted the comment that Ray made after reading that thread again earlier today.

Only I didn't connect her name with the one on the label as we were thinking it was a man's name!

So, are we to assume Michelle White used the name Bill?

It's not likely to be her middle name now is it

[John Benson]

I agree with the theory that it's unlikely that someone went to the trouble to create a fake B side and use those writer credits too.

But it would be even better if someone  could come up with the record - better still if we can get to hear it!

[Simon T]

26 minutes ago, John Benson said:

I agree with the theory that it's unlikely that someone went to the trouble to create a fake B side and use those writer credits too.

But it would be even better if someone  could come up with the record - better still if we can get to hear it!

 

26 minutes ago, John Benson said:

I agree with the theory that it's unlikely that someone went to the trouble to create a fake B side and use those writer credits too.

 

they also went to the bother of changing the time and number from 1179 to 1180  The scans also are fundamentally  different, not just an copy of the 'A' and  changing of the title to something they just dreamed up. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Simon T

[Tricky]

My GSF theories for what they are worth!!!

6896 Skullsnaps - White and issue demos only.Could if released have had I’m your Pimp on flip.

6914 Anderson brothers - Demo only. Dodgy scans won’t convince me this was issued after all these years.

6916 Connie Laverne - Demo only. Last release on label.

6915 Joe Quarterman - This was issued so hope springs eternal perhaps that there actually are issues of the releases either side.

 

 

[Soulstrutter]

I know this doesn't help but just adds to the mystery!

I can't find it listed or reviewd in B&S - been through the whole of 1974, but did find it in Hot Stuff (guide to new US releases) in Black Music June 1974 .... but 'sods law' most (if not all) the other releases have the B side listed ... guess what ... this one doesn't! .. might that suggest it was a single sided demo perhaps (at the time at least)?

Oh, and by the way, that issue had an 8 page article on NS by Tony Cummings & Dave Godin. I might scan it and post it as I've got it out!

UPDATE - just scanned article it to pdf - not sure if I can/should post it on here - so if you want a copy PM me with your email address and I'll send it.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Soulstrutter

[Tlscapital]

That grossly "pixelorized" image (best and easiest way to hide copied & paste flange fittings) of a stocker Anderson Brothers is not convincing IMO. Plus I know of people going through all the trouble to produce such an artefact. Even before the private computer age I have seen some.

The fact that this label has the first name of Michelle White as Bill is indeed questioning. But mostly the typo used here are not corresponding to other contemporary releases of the label. And mostly the fact that it does not mention in big 'stereo' just does not make it look right.

The bootleg (2nd top row) is just a copy of the original. The original was made at the same pressing plant as the previous release for the label ; Billy Cee. Then following the Anderson Brothers is the Joe Quaterman release. Although from another pressing plant it still bares the big 'strereo' quote.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Tlscapital

[Soulstrutter]

I'm not sure that argument entirely 'holds up' as if you look at the Whatnauts issue 6905 from 1973 it has both variants, and before that many have the cat no on left and no Stereo mark.  The Dorothy Moore 6908 and Joe Johnson 6909 is a similar design to AB one (albeit cat no is on right). Could be the 'counerfeiter' inadvertently copied the earlier design?  In any case no one knows if any actually exist - so this may just be a big hoax and someone's having a good laugh at our expense?

Edited February 28, 2021 by Soulstrutter

[Alan T]

On 27/02/2021 at 19:48, Andy Rix said:

I called Dennis Anderson yesterday to ask him but he didn't pick up .. I'll keep trying to see if he can remember what they recorded for the B side

Andy

If he can recall it i think he might say it's "I'm Really Scared" . I've never seen an issue and i'm not convinced of that scan above.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Alan T

[Soulstrutter]

2 minutes ago, Alan T said:

If he can recall it i think he might say it's "I'm Really Scared" . I've never seen an issue and i'm not convinced of that scan above.

 

 

If it is it would tie up with what's entered on BMI for Michele Dahrouge:

https://repertoire.bmi.com/Search/Catalog?num=AqQuT7iA0FNR9mjT0%2fSTFA%3d%3d&cae=IW%2fqz83Fe7CjW9honkWKNQ%3d%3d&partType=WriterList&search={"Main_Search_Text"%3A"michele dahrouge"%2C"Sub_Search_Text"%3A""%2C"Main_Search"%3A"Writer%2FComposer"%2C"Sub_Search"%3Anull%2C"Search_Type"%3A"all"%2C"View_Count"%3A50%2C"Page_Number"%3A0%2C"Part_Type"%3Anull%2C"Part_Id"%3Anull%2C"Part_Id_Sub"%3Anull%2C"Part_Name"%3Anull%2C"Part_Cae"%3Anull%2C"Original_Search"%3Anull%2C"DisclaimerViewed"%3Anull}&resetPageNumber=True&partIdSub=YO0HedHMatLb45JzS23DVw%3d%3d

[Tlscapital]

27 minutes ago, Soulstrutter said:

I'm not sure that argument entirely 'holds up' as if you look at the Whatnauts issue 6905 from 1973 it has both variants, and before that many have the cat no on left and no Stereo mark.  The Dorothy Moore 6908 and Joe Johnson 6909 is a similar design to AB one. Could be the 'counerfeiter' inadvertently copied the earlier design?  In any case no one knows if any actually exist - so this may just be a big hoax and someone's having a good laugh at our expense?

No offense here but it does hold up. For one ; OK some of the previous releases on the label did not featured the 'stereo' quote. But contemporary releases to the Anderson Brothers all did. For two ; see that the given matrix is always preceded by a 's' for 'stereo'. Not on the 'image' though. Finally find me another release from that label with a similar label as that 'pixel' image and I might vouch for it then. Too many things are not right with that 'image'.

[Ian Dewhirst]

It's funny I had a convo about this last night with a well-known dealer, He was surprised I asked the question as he thought it was an obvious dummy-up. I told him that I hadn't gone into forensics on the label but it was more that whoever mocked it up obviously had some detail about the supposed 'B' side since the writing credit tallies with Ray Dahrouge's memories. So it's just interesting. My dealer friend senses a scam whereas I'm pretty intrigued by it all. I wouldn't have particularly thought about it but I bumped into the B side scan only recently, even though it's been around since Mick H's post from 2015. I'm not a label buff, the scan's not clear enough, so overall I would have been pretty convinced that it was real. But if it's not real, then what would have been the purpose for the dummy-up? Wishful thinking? 

Ian

Edited February 28, 2021 by Ian Dewhirst

[Imperial C]

If the question being asked is, does an Anderson Brothers Issue exist the answer is yes. I had one in the early 80's and it was a minter. It looked gorgeous, unlike the scan on here.

Looking at the pics and working from memory I would say it looked like the Joe Quaterman but with the Anderson Bros demo typeface. Best I can do. If you saw a real one you'd know it. Thick vinyl as well. 

Couple of friends remember it so can be verified.

If its a different b side question, I know nothing. 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Imperial C

[Soulstrutter]

3 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

No offense here but it does hold up. For one ; OK some of the previous releases on the label did not featured the 'stereo' quote. But contemporary releases to the Anderson Brothers all did. For two ; see that the given matrix is always preceded by a 's' for 'stereo'. Not on the 'image' though. Finally find me another release from that label with a similar label as that 'pixel' image and I might vouch for it then. Too many things are not right with that 'image'.

No offence taken, as if you read my earlier comment I am as doubtful about it as you   .... but there are similar label designs i.e. 6901 below: (also 6894,6887 and probably others as I haven't checked them all)

i.e. no S-, no stereo, cat no on left, publisher and timings under cat no on left, and arranger/producer credits on right  

- but there are other 'oddities' why a different layout to demo and all others you point out on releases just before and after?, why is comma mising after GSF RECORDS under artist name - all others have a comma

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Soulstrutter

[Tlscapital]

8 hours ago, Imperial C said:

If the question being asked is, does an Anderson Brothers Issue exist the answer is yes. I had one in the early 80's and it was a minter. It looked gorgeous, unlike the scan on here.

Looking at the pics and working from memory I would say it looked like the Joe Quaterman but with the Anderson Bros demo typeface. Best I can do. If you saw a real one you'd know it. Thick vinyl as well. 

Couple of friends remember it so can be verified.

If its a different b side question, I know nothing.

I'm totally incline to believe it can exists. Your post participate to that theory  Although confirmed but not proven yet ! What I understand is that you say that it would rather be looking like the Joe Quaterman following release from their catalog but with the same Anderson Brothers promo copy font...

I find that hard to realize since it would mean different pressing plants but same templates... Very unlikely IME.

When it's either one or the other. Could it not looked more like the Billy Cee (promo & stock are made with identical templates) ? That one is contemporary to the Anderson Brothers and from the same pressing plant. Vinyl thickness variations for a same record from the same pressing plant is something I've seen few times FWIW. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Tlscapital

[Imperial C]

1 hour ago, Tlscapital said:

I'm totally incline to believe it can exists. Your post participate to that theory  Although confirmed but not proven yet ! What I understand is that you say that it would rather be looking like the Joe Quaterman following release from their catalog but with the same Anderson Brothers promo copy font...

I find that hard to realize since it would mean different pressing plants but same templates... Very unlikely IME.

When it's either one or the other. Could it not looked more like the Billy Cee (promo & stock are made with identical templates) ? That one is contemporary to the Anderson Brothers and from the same pressing plant. Vinyl thickness variations for a same record from the same pressing plant is something I've seen few times FWIW. 

You may be right on the Billy Cee, as I mentioned its from memory, its about 35+ years ago. Its out there somewhere. 

[Ian Dewhirst]

12 hours ago, Imperial C said:

If the question being asked is, does an Anderson Brothers Issue exist the answer is yes. I had one in the early 80's and it was a minter. It looked gorgeous, unlike the scan on here.

Looking at the pics and working from memory I would say it looked like the Joe Quaterman but with the Anderson Bros demo typeface. Best I can do. If you saw a real one you'd know it. Thick vinyl as well. 

Couple of friends remember it so can be verified.

If its a different b side question, I know nothing. 

 

Did you actually play the 'B' side and, if so, what's it like?

Ian D

 

[Merve]

19 hours ago, Imperial C said:

If the question being asked is, does an Anderson Brothers Issue exist the answer is yes. I had one in the early 80's and it was a minter. It looked gorgeous, unlike the scan on here.

Looking at the pics and working from memory I would say it looked like the Joe Quaterman but with the Anderson Bros demo typeface. Best I can do. If you saw a real one you'd know it. Thick vinyl as well. 

Couple of friends remember it so can be verified.

If its a different b side question, I know nothing. 

 

Do you know where your old copy ended up ? Has it been on the market since ?....Not asking you to breach a confidence of course, just interested if its still in this country really or has it gone to Japan or back to the states 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Merve

[Imperial C]

2 hours ago, Merve said:

Do you know where your old copy ended up ? Has it been on the market since ?....Not asking you to breach a confidence of course, just interested if its still in this country really or has it gone to Japan or back to the states 

 

My apologies to everyone reading, given the time lapse of 35 years + I cannot be certain about this. So I would rather be honest and let you know. The more I've thought about it and questioned myself I just cannot be sure, so for now, my sincere apologies. 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Imperial C

[Ian Dewhirst]

On 01/03/2021 at 19:31, Imperial C said:

My apologies to everyone reading, given the time lapse of 35 years + I cannot be certain about this. So I would rather be honest and let you know. The more I've thought about it and questioned myself I just cannot be sure, so for now, my sincere apologies. 

 

I admire your honesty. It wouldn't be the first time memories get obscured with time. 

OK, back to square 1......

Ian