N/s

[Winnie :-)]

As a newbie on SS I'm not sure if this topic has been covered, if so can someone point me in the direction of the thread so I can read it.

What I basically want to know is....Can all these different genres of soul music actually work together at soul nights/nighters.

R&B, modern, mid-tempo, traditional, do they all compliment each other? What for example should you do if you're playing a set of modern at a do, and it clears the floor? I think the style of music played at a venue very much dictates the politics of the scene. If someone has a particular penchant for mid-tempo, they tend to extol the virtues of said genre, and visit venues playing mostly that style of music. What also seems to happen is that we the punters are/can be pilloried for not allowing the scene to progress, because in the mid-tempo lovers viewpoint we are stuck in a time-warp. I'm not picking on any one style cos I like or dislike it, just using them as examples

Can we still be educated, do we need educating?

Winnie:-)

[Pete S]

Why not just shoot all dj's who play modern???

[Headsy]

Why not just shoot all dj's who play modern???

link

and R&B and all people who like both styles then we can just have northern and crossover nights !!!

[Guest]

Why not just shoot all dj's who play modern???

link

I know roughly what you call modern Pete *, but lots of the records played at Clifton Hall, early Stafford, Cleethorpes and late Wigan are now called crossover. What is the accepted criteria for modern. When, date-wise are we coming from. Or is it the style ?

* you call modern shite, I know.

[Headsy]

I know roughly what you call modern Pete *, but lots of the records played at Clifton Hall, early Stafford, Cleethorpes and late Wigan are now called crossover. What is the accepted criteria for modern. When, date-wise are we coming from. Or is it the style ?

* you call modern shite, I know.

link

gotta be style,some good x-over up to 1976 sound wise

[Guest]

gotta be style,some good x-over up to 1976 sound wise

link

Sorry Headsy, might be being a bit thick here, but do you mean , sound wise, after 1976 generally classed as modern ?

[Winnie :-)]

and R&B and all people who like both styles then we can just have northern and crossover nights !!!

===========

But isn't this the politics I'm talking about? Taken in it's basest form, you're comments are saying that anybody who likes these styles doesn't understand what northern is about. You're promoting, as far as I can see a particular style as true northern....does that not explain why there are so much politics on the scene. Most of us moan about the rights and wrongs, the my venue's better than your venue because it plays this etc, but then we actually support them by saying, this should be played and this shouldn't. Can the styles not co-exist in the same venue....and I don't mean in seperate rooms.

Winnie:-)

[Headsy]

all subjective of course just that I dont know one record that is classed ( and sound wise fits the bill ) as crossover that was recorded after 76, anybody know some ?

[Headsy]

dont take that joke answer for a serious answer to your post Winnie personally I can accept all mixes of styles apart from modern at a niter, IMO modern should have its own room always, just my opinion mind cos I just dont get it !!

Edited December 15, 2004 by headsy

[Winnie :-)]

dont take that joke answer for a serious answer to your post Winnie personally I can accept all mixes of styles apart from modern at a niter, IMO modern should have its own room always, just my opinion mind cos I just dont get it !!

===========

Soz

Now I like modern at a nighter.....and stuff made after '76, but I really struggle to classify it. To me it's just music that I like to dance to, and it's soulful, which in essence is what I require. I'm not keen on R&B (the obscure kind) and personally I think it has less in common with northern, than modern. If it's soulful I'll dance to it, but some of it verges on...well R&R country doo-wop, that sort of thing. Am I uneducated cos I don't like it....am I not allowing the scene to progress. Why have these styles of records come so much to the fore? Is it because the scene needs to constantly have new sounds thrown at it, to sustain it?

Winnie:-)

[Pete S]

and R&B and all people who like both styles then we can just have northern and crossover nights !!!

link

Sorry, I'd keep the R&B and remove the crossover as well as modern. In fact, crossover is even worse than modern because it's no particular style, just watered down northern. At least R&B is the roots of soul and not the roots of disco.

[Guest Soultown andy]

If you asked 10 diffrent people what they meant by ns you would get 10 diffrent answers,personaly i prefer the venues that mix all the styles just so happens these tend to be the best attended,so tend to think that for the majority a mixed bag seems to go down just fine.

[Ernie Andrews]

In Aberdeen- The term across the board really means that. Some months ago I played a set which had even masters at work in it and the floor was not empty by any means but in single room venues you cannot do a set of the same genre- you have to mix it up 70s, crossover, 60s modern etc to keep the punters happy especially in small clubs like ours. their are the avid die hard 60s classic northern fans who have difficulty with this but the younger fan is more diverse than the 40 something die hards and therefore you have to play to everyones needs.

[Guest]

In many cases because they are cheap, (Nino Tempo etc) Some Dj's want to be seen to be playing 'new' records (back to ego again winnie !)

so anything gets played. Do you hear Butch, Chalky etc playing this crap.

You might not like everything they play, but at least its soul.

[Guest waynec]

most venues get it ok with a bit of somink for everyone though as stated with r&r,doowop ect the bounderies seam to be growing.

no modern though please.

if i wanted modern id go to my local nightclub

[Winnie :-)]

In many cases because they are cheap, (Nino Tempo etc) Some Dj's want to be seen to be playing 'new' records (back to ego again winnie !)

so anything gets played. Do you hear Butch, Chalky etc playing this crap.

You might not like everything they play, but at least its soul.

=========

Totally agree with you about Butch and Chalky Andy D etc and also about Nino Tempo, it's pants. So how or why does something like that become popular. I recognise some people on here may like Nino Tempo, so soz, it's just not my cup of tea.

Winnie:-)

[Pete S]

[also about Nino Tempo, it's pants. So how or why does something like that become popular. I recognise some people on here may like Nino Tempo, so soz, it's just not my cup of tea.

Winnie:-)

link

Simple - it's catchy and people enjoy dancing to it. That is the bottom line of any record on this scene, you have to be able to dance to it, if not, why is it being played?

[Guest]

Simple - it's catchy and people enjoy dancing to it. That is the bottom line of any record on this scene, you have to be able to dance to it, if not, why is it being played?

link

What about Jerry Fuller ' I Get Carried Away' then

[Pete S]

What about Jerry Fuller ' I Get Carried Away' then 

link

What about it?

[Winnie :-)]

most venues get it ok with a bit of somink for everyone though as stated with r&r,doowop ect the bounderies seam to be growing.

no modern though please.

if i wanted modern id go to my local nightclub

==========

Just a point...if they played the modern you hear at nighters in local nightclubs...you'd have no need for modern rooms

I should point out that whilst I like modern, my main preference is up-tempo 6Ts and oldies.....

Winnie:-)

[Billywhizz]

As a newbie on SS I'm not sure if this topic has been covered, if so can someone point me in the direction of the thread so I can read it.

What I basically want to know is....Can all these different genres of soul music actually work together at soul nights/nighters.

R&B, modern, mid-tempo, traditional, do they all compliment each other? What for example should you do if you're playing a set of modern at a do, and it clears the floor? I think the style of music played at a venue very much dictates the politics of the scene. If someone has a particular penchant for mid-tempo, they tend to extol the virtues of said genre, and visit venues playing mostly that style of music. What also seems to happen is that we the punters are/can be pilloried for not allowing the scene to progress, because in the mid-tempo lovers viewpoint we are stuck in a time-warp. I'm not picking on any one style cos I like or dislike it, just using them as examples

Can we still be educated, do we need educating?

You've got a point there Winnie I can see where you are coming from the oldies today was the oldies in the middle 70's when RS did the oldies once a month on Fridays he was starting the cross over then,place to be this Saturday will be the Marrs cross the board sounds none repeated sounds chill out room and plenty of water for the dance floor LOL oh by the way the best DJ lineup in the U.K this Saturday

[Guest]

What about it?

link

Its catchy, but how do you dance to it ?

But the point I was trying to make was someone played it first. Why :angry: I can see no relevance whatsoever (other than 'Double Life') to the northern scene. Listen to the vocal, pure white mor pop, backings the same. And its not even a dance record. I don't understand the demand.

And after saying that, there a couple of modern venues around here that play 'modern soul' which take the form of every record having the same slow tempo, and with poor vocals as well, backed up with eighties chart records. Its difficult to keep awake. No wonder sixties fans slag modern off so much when this is a big part of what they hear.

Rant over

Edited December 15, 2004 by BLADEFORLIFE

[Andyf]

In Aberdeen- The term across the board really means that. Some months ago I played a set which had even masters at work in it and the floor was not empty by any means but in single room venues you cannot do a set of the same genre- you have to mix it up 70s, crossover, 60s modern etc to keep the punters happy especially in small clubs like ours. their are the avid die hard 60s classic northern fans who have difficulty with this but the younger fan is more diverse than the 40 something die hards and therefore you have to play to everyones needs.

link

Mmmmm, not sure I agree with this. I would have thought that it would be quite difficult to mix all those genres up without the set getting disjointed. I also think single room venues don't have to be across the board necessarily along as they are advertised as something specific.

Soulsville anniversary worked as a night, not because you had a number of DJs all playing ATB sets, but because there was enough diversity amongst the DJs be it 60's 70's whatever. On the other hand I am a forties something diehard

[Winnie :-)]

Its catchy, but how do you dance to it ?

==========

flail

Winnie:-)

[Guest]

Sorry, I'd keep the R&B and remove the crossover as well as modern. In fact, crossover is even worse than modern because it's no particular style, just watered down northern.  At least R&B is the roots of soul and not the roots of disco.

link

Been here before on soul source,why are some rare 60's soul fans so anti 70's soul (xover/modern..what ever...),I'm a huge fan of all the genres of soul (well those that use true instruments,no drum machines etc),but i never see the so called modern crowd turn on the 60's scene. Pete you gotta come up and visit us Yorkshire folk at Soulsville/Ponds Forge (sure they'll play something you like) if you don't like 70's soul after their night, then fair enough...........you can't be saved

Ps Pete you found me that Mr Fletcher yet?

Edited December 15, 2004 by Brett

[Guest alison]

Mmmmm, not sure I agree with this. I would have thought that it would be quite difficult to mix all those genres up without the set getting disjointed. I also think single room venues don't have to be across the board necessarily along as they are advertised as something specific.

Soulsville anniversary worked as a night, not because you had a number of DJs all playing ATB sets, but because there was enough diversity amongst the DJs be it 60's 70's whatever. On the other hand I am a forties something diehard

link

Listen to Terry Jones play a mixed set - the man is a master at mixing the eras together perfectly. Open the Door to your heart, segued into The Tempts - Law of the Land...ooh it was a cracker of a follow up - I came over all faint ! Four decades of soul music to choose from - by all means have your favourite era but seems silly to put your fingers in your ears and trill tra-la-la-la-la just cos the date doesnt suit......just my VFHO of course Andy darling

Edited December 15, 2004 by alison

[Winnie :-)]

Been here before on soul source,why are rare 60's soul fans so anti 70's soul (xover/modern..what ever...),I'm a huge fan of all the genres of soul (well those that use true instruments,no drum machines etc),but i never see the so called modern crowd turn on the 60's scene.

=============

Not sure if this comment is just aimed at Pete or not. I certainly don't have a downer on the modern scene. I just wanted to know if we're contributing to our own downfall by putting the scene into boxes, and thusly perpetrating the politics.

Winnie:-)

[Pete S]

Its catchy, but how do you dance to it ?

But the point I was trying to make was someone played it first. Why  :angry: I can see no relevance whatsoever (other than 'Double Life') to the northern scene. Listen to the vocal, pure white mor pop, backings the same. And its not even a dance record.  I don't understand the demand.

And after saying that, there a  couple of modern venues around here that play 'modern soul' which take the form of every record having the same slow tempo, and with poor vocals as well, backed up with eighties chart records. Its difficult to keep awake. No wonder sixties fans slag modern off so much when this is a big part of what they hear.

Rant over

link

It's a beat ballad Steve, not a northern dancer, and that sort of thing should be played at the end of the night.

[Pete S]

but i never see the so called modern crowd turn on the 60's scene.

link

Thats because they ought to count themselves lucky they are allowed to listen to their shite music on our "60's music scene". Modern crowd - modern venues. Not Northern venues.

[Guest]

Thats because they ought to count themselves lucky they are allowed to listen to their shite music on our "60's music scene".  Modern crowd - modern venues.  Not Northern venues.

link

Just seems a shame to me that certain people cannot enjoy a style of music because it was recorded after Dec 31 1969, let's take The Whispers 1965 recording for Dore' "It Only Hurts For A Little While" the production is years ahead of its time, this fantastic track sounds like an early 70's release, guess i am lucky to attend a variety of venues that indeed cater for an open minded policy on music, that judges quality ahead of a time capsule mentality.

[Guest waynec]

It's a beat ballad Steve, not a northern dancer, and that sort of thing should be played at the end of the night.

link

yep after everyones left

brett i dont thinks its a date cutoff.

its more a personal choice to what style of music you like.

i prefer my 60,s but enjoy music from all eras but couldnt stand a whole evening of it.

[Headsy]

Sorry, I'd keep the R&B and remove the crossover as well as modern. In fact, crossover is even worse than modern because it's no particular style, just watered down northern.  At least R&B is the roots of soul and not the roots of disco.

link

wrong Pete sorry,there is so much quality crossover that is pure soul music......modern I agree,go to a nightclub,but whilst I love mid-uptempo and uptempo 60s I also think crossover mid tempo and mid to uptempo is the dogs bits,so many singers on crossover really belt it out it has soul content and a lot still has that basic/rough/tuppenny arrangement,so much like 60s just a little further forward in time, that said early/hard soul is nice but R&B ? its been taken to the extreme,especially these days in trying to find something new ( plus a few clip clop dodgy ones as well that are not soul at all just white C&W IMO )

mind you I just dont get it,maybe its me ?

[Guest]

I truly believe that all soul styles can exist within the one venue - even in one room (within reason!). I have been to many a do where R&B, midtempo magic, northern, crossover and modern have been successfully mixed together and the flow of the night has not been affected. I thoroughly enjoy this type of night as you never really know what to expect and the real soul lover cannot truthfully say they close their ears to anything made after a certain year.

As much as I appreciate modern (even 'new' modern), I do draw the line at 'bangin' choons' though...they ruin any night and shoud be kept in their place...back rooms of chav pubs.

[Headsy]

I tell you these days at niters I would sooner float around the floor at 5 in the morning to some mid tempo than try to put my knees out to uptempo northern..just too old....is that another reason why we like mid tempo cos we still wanna dance ?

you can only look for records for so long then you have to get up and dance.

Edited December 15, 2004 by headsy

[Guest]

if the dj's good enough they can get away with anything imo , so bring it on

Davie

[Winnie :-)]

I tell you these days at niters I would sooner float around the floor at 5 in the morning to some mid tempo than try to put my knees out to uptempo northern..just too old....is that another reason why we like mid tempo cos we still wanna dance ?

you can only look for records for so long then you have to get up and dance.

===========

I think we all have a preferred choice, be it 6Ts, Modern or Mid-tempo etc....but we are still putting things into bags. And then later we'll criticise the politics on the scene...is it not the case that by championing one genre, we are also playing politics albeit generally to a smaller audience?

I've heard it said so many times....I don't get involved in the politics but the way I see it we do.

Winnie:-)

[Guest]

I tell you these days at niters I would sooner float around the floor at 5 in the morning to some mid tempo than try to put my knees out to uptempo northern..just too old....is that another reason why we like mid tempo cos we still wanna dance ?

you can only look for records for so long then you have to get up and dance.

link

As an old man of 47 and no longer chemically enhanced when dancing I am increasingly drawn to 70`s crossovers because they are so easy to dance to.

Back in the day, most of the modern stuff played now would have been dismissed as disco and only fit for the divs in their tacky disco`s.

No one over 40 can surely dance all night at 100 mph like we used to without " help" so as we all get older the music will slow down with us.

[Winnie :-)]

As an old man of 47 and no longer chemically enhanced when dancing I am increasingly drawn to 70`s crossovers because they are so easy to dance to.

Back in the day, most of the modern stuff played now would have been dismissed as disco and only fit for the divs in their tacky disco`s.

No one over 40 can surely dance all night at 100 mph like we used to without " help" so as we all get older the music will slow down with us.

=========

No offence meant, but that makes it sound like we sometimes dance to second rate music cos it's slower and we're older. If I dance to something it's cos I like it, whatever it's tempo. I do take your point though, it's difficult to dance to constant 100mph stompers without the aid of some sort of stimulant, but that's a life choice sort of thing

Winnie:-)

[Pete S]

You lot...you don't half bite when I dangle the bait!

Yes I hate modern and crossover but I like the odd one or two, if you like them then fine, I know where to go to avoid it so it's no problem, couple of my favourite records are certainly not northern (Diane Jenkins/Towana & Total Destruction) but I personally like to hear 60's northern and if they are going to play 70's then it would have to be Cleethorpes style 70's (east coast connection, norma jenkins, the gig, willie j & co) which still has a 4-4 beat.

No offence meant to anyone, ever, when we're on this subject, I just like to see what happens

[Winnie :-)]

You lot...you don't half bite when I dangle the bait!

Yes I hate modern and crossover but I like the odd one or two, if you like them then fine, I know where to go to avoid it so it's no problem, couple of my favourite records are certainly not northern (Diane Jenkins/Towana & Total Destruction) but I personally like to hear 60's northern and if they are going to play 70's then it would have to be Cleethorpes style 70's (east coast connection, norma jenkins, the gig, willie j & co) which still has a 4-4 beat.

No offence meant to anyone, ever, when we're on this subject, I just like to see what happens

============

Guess who's just had a load of 7Ts come in and in the comments column wants to put

"Great xover dancer" of

"Oh so soulful"

Winnie:-)

[Dave]

You lot...you don't half bite when I dangle the bait!

Yes I hate modern and crossover but I like the odd one or two, if you like them then fine, I know where to go to avoid it so it's no problem, couple of my favourite records are certainly not northern (Diane Jenkins/Towana & Total Destruction) but I personally like to hear 60's northern and if they are going to play 70's then it would have to be Cleethorpes style 70's (east coast connection, norma jenkins, the gig, willie j & co) which still has a 4-4 beat.

No offence meant to anyone, ever, when we're on this subject, I just like to see what happens 

link

LOL!!

Reckon you've given the definitive answer ther Pete.

If some like ANY genre within the scene, then there's got to be a place for it and as you say, we can all stay away from places that don't suit our own individual taste

Not the same as saying it shouldn't be played, is it?

And as for those Cleethorpes tunes........

(BTW, apparently Willie J is now an anthem on the deepfunk scene you pretended to know nothing about the other day)

[Guest LeoLyxxx]

Sorry, I'd keep the R&B and remove the crossover as well as modern. In fact, crossover is even worse than modern because it's no particular style, just watered down northern.  At least R&B is the roots of soul and not the roots of disco.

link

More like the offspring of country & rock n roll to my ears.. RnB must go tired of hearing about peoples mojo and how they gonna work and buy cadillacs for their girls

Uptempo ns rules when dancing but still i love the midtempo stuff and good ol' shufflers... and of course LOOOOOOOADS of modern

best

Leo

[Ernie Andrews]

Mmmmm, not sure I agree with this. I would have thought that it would be quite difficult to mix all those genres up without the set getting disjointed. I also think single room venues don't have to be across the board necessarily along as they are advertised as something specific.

Soulsville anniversary worked as a night, not because you had a number of DJs all playing ATB sets, but because there was enough diversity amongst the DJs be it 60's 70's whatever. On the other hand I am a forties something diehard

link

It does not get disjointed if you have the skill of a good DJ and read or know your crowd! and be able to slice in discs due to age60s-70s and back down then and so on. Thanks for reading my reply- I think this is the first.

[Winnie :-)]

It does not get disjointed if you have the skill of a good DJ and read or know your crowd! and be able to slice in discs due to age60s-70s and back down then and so on. Thanks for reading my reply- I think this is the first.

=============

Most DJs know, that if dancers on the floor are sparse, they have only to stick on an oldie, and they'll come flooding back. But does that help in educating them/us to new sounds? If you have a liking for say modern, and playing it is keeping the floor quiet, should you change tack, or stick to your guns? Does the floor decide, or should it be the DJ?

Winnie:-)

[Guest Jamie]

At least R&B is the roots of soul and not the roots of disco.

link

Just read the full thread, and know you put a jokey angle on it at the end Pete, but I wondered where you think the roots of disco come from: C&W? R&R? Techno?

Or was that part of the joke??

Confused of Leeds

[Pete S]

I'd think the roots of disco come from 70's soul which doesn't necessarily lead back to 50's r&b.

Can you link hoochie coochie man to ring my bell or night fever?

[Guest Jamie]

I'd think the roots of disco come from 70's soul which doesn't necessarily lead back to 50's r&b.

Can you link hoochie coochie man to ring my bell or night fever?

link

OK Pete, where does the roots of 70's soul come from, if all 'Soul' cannot be traced to 50's R&B?? Barber Shop?? Red-Neck Banjo?? Big Band??

It's BLACK, It's AMERICAN and it's DANCE music, it's got to have come from the same place, there are no other similar socio-musical styles whatsoever.

Of course Disco is a progression of 70's Soul, just as that's a progression of 60's Soul and so on.

Unless I've missed a whole genre of music, I just can't see where else it could come from?

Essentially, all disco music came from 60's & 70's soul artists who had just 'progressed' with the current musical tastes and to some extent lead by social scenes and as such Producers, Promoters & DJ's like Larry Levan, Nick Mancuso, Shep Pettibone, Tom Moulton, Francois Kevorkian et al gave them what they wanted.

I mean, who did the Temps, Dramatics, Originals etc. develop their 70's style from?? The fucking Bee Gees????

Edited December 17, 2004 by Jamie

[Paulb]

I personally cant bloody stand modern but i suppose you start looking for new sounds whwn you've been on the scene for a good length of time. I cant really see a link between modern and northern. They are two different types of music in my opinion and dont fit together too well.

[Reg]

I personally cant bloody stand modern but i suppose you start looking for new sounds whwn you've been on the scene for a good length of time. I cant really see a link between modern and northern. They are two different types of music in my opinion and dont fit together too well.

link

This is always a big puzzle for me...how do you define modern? When I first started off on the scene records like Givin it all to you-Cheryl Berdell was classed as modern but now some people call it crossover? I always say I like modern but then I definitely don't like the 90s and Y2k stuff they play in a lot of modern rooms. Think my cut off point is probably mid 80s but if anybody can convince me otherwise I'm definitely willing to listen

[Guest Jamie]

This is always a big puzzle for me...how do you define modern? When I first started off on the scene records like Givin it all to you-Cheryl Berdell was classed as  modern but now some people call it crossover?  I always say I like modern but then I definitely don't like the  90s and Y2k stuff they play in a lot of modern rooms. Think my cut off point is probably mid 80s but if anybody can convince me otherwise I'm definitely willing to listen

link

Reg, my cut-off point is the same.

Owt after early/mid 80's as a rule, with only the odd one doing anything for me after that.

It was dead weird when I started going out, people were calling 'Newies' '70's Northern' and 'Cross-Over' and 'Oldies' were 'Oldies', but 'Played Out', and 'Newies' were infact underplayed 60's, and when it came to 'Modern' (which was 70's to me!) is god knows what .....