Ebay - 2021 uk vat

[Vadnochka]

Just seen a note on an ebay listing that from 01.01.21 - ebay will be collecting VAT (20%) on transactions going thru' them from abroad. No other details as to how it will be  calculated ( usually shipping etc added and then a tax on a tax ) - Anyone out there got anymore details ?

Just thought I'd cheer everyone up !!! 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Mike
title edited to reflect topic better

[Mike]

  On 21/12/2020 at 12:53, Vadnochka said:

Just seen a note on an ebay listing that from 01.01.21 - ebay will be collecting VAT (20%) on transactions going thru' them from abroad. No other details as to how it will be  calculated ( usually shipping etc added and then a tax on a tax ) - Anyone out there got anymore details ?

Just thought I'd cheer everyone up !!! 

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some talk here on it all

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Business-Seller-Board/Changes-to-VAT-2021/td-p/6736856

 

can anyone knock up a summary for members?

[Kempy]

If it's the case that Ebay is going to add 20% vat on any record I purchase from the States,that is going to go a long way to curing me of the madness that is record collecting !

[Mike]

here's uk sellers info from ebay..

https://sellercentre.ebay.co.uk/global-sales/2021-vat-changes

2021 changes to VAT regulations in UK and EU
Important changes for sellers involved in cross-border e-commerce

[Soulof]

Think Ebay just keeping themself right here to be fair.  I work outsourced for a shipping company and we got a memo about this today.  

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

"The new arrangements will also involve the abolition of Low Value Consignment Relief, which relieves import VAT on consignments of goods valued at £15 or less.

Online marketplaces (OMPs), where they are involved in facilitating the sale, will be responsible for collecting and accounting for the VAT."   

strange I have not seen this info before but probably focus is elsewhere atm.  Got a record just before this luckily reckon Discogs and others have to do the same

 

[Modernsoulsucks]

Looking at my UK eBay Summary/Watch list I can see one item that states 20% VAT will be added. That's a currently £13.48 [$18.30] album listed on US eBay.

If I link to my Summary via US eBay it doesn't show that.

 

[Dylan]

All part of the brexit bonus sunny uplands

  On 05/01/2021 at 13:49, Modernsoulsucks said:

Looking at my UK eBay Summary/Watch list I can see one item that states 20% VAT will be added. That's a currently £13.48 [$18.30] album listed on US eBay.

If I link to my Summary via US eBay it doesn't show that.

 

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The dot com site might not know where you are ? 

[Modernsoulsucks]

I think it's more to do with me having a US address for my US buys.

Not sure on that but next time I win something I'll see if I'm charged VAT.

As it's not going to UK I assume I will not ?

 

[Julianb]

Surely VAT is not charged on secondhand goods?

[Jnixon]

  On 05/01/2021 at 17:21, Julianb said:

Surely VAT is not charged on secondhand goods?

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Any imported goods is my understanding 

[Jnixon]

  On 05/01/2021 at 16:12, Modernsoulsucks said:

I think it's more to do with me having a US address for my US buys.

Not sure on that but next time I win something I'll see if I'm charged VAT.

As it's not going to UK I assume I will not ?

 

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Have you got a P.O. Box type arrangement Rod? 

[Modernsoulsucks]

  On 05/01/2021 at 17:50, Jnixon said:

Have you got a P.O. Box type arrangement Rod? 

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No, a mate.

Cheaper postage having US buys collected together and sent in bulk [40+ albums say] than paying USA to UK postage on each individual item.

[Dylan]

  On 05/01/2021 at 16:12, Modernsoulsucks said:

I think it's more to do with me having a US address for my US buys.

Not sure on that but next time I win something I'll see if I'm charged VAT.

As it's not going to UK I assume I will not ?

 

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Probably not for VAT I think you will get same deal you currently do for things going to a US address can’t see any reason why that would change.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Dylan

[Modernsoulsucks]

  On 05/01/2021 at 19:20, Dylan said:

Probably not for VAT I think you will get same deal you currently do for things going to a US address can’t see any reason why that would change.

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Yes I think I'll avoid until actually sent from mate to me.

There is a slight downside to my arrangement in that I pay state taxes.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Won it. No VAT.

  On 05/01/2021 at 19:20, Dylan said:

Probably not for VAT I think you will get same deal you currently do for things going to a US address can’t see any reason why that would change.

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Won it.  No VAT

[Dylan]

  On 05/01/2021 at 21:24, Modernsoulsucks said:

Won it. No VAT.

Won it.  No VAT

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Happy days 

 

off course paying VAT would be acceptable if you won a thousand pound record for a hundred quid 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Dylan

[Tomangoes]

Without getting political.....brexit has resulted in changes to imported goods. From whats been on the news, exporters to the UK need to do some registration and red tape form filling.

There was a Belgian manufacturer of bicycle seats, who has now said they will not send product to the UK due to the new legal requirements.

Still, its early days, and I'm sure certain anomalies will get ironed out.

Ed

[Dylan]

  On 05/01/2021 at 23:48, Tomangoes said:

Without getting political.....brexit has resulted in changes to imported goods. From whats been on the news, exporters to the UK need to do some registration and red tape form filling.

There was a Belgian manufacturer of bicycle seats, who has now said they will not send product to the UK due to the new legal requirements.

Still, its early days, and I'm sure certain anomalies will get ironed out.

Ed

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Yes I read the press release the cycle part company put out.  Essentially it wasn’t good.

 

i am not so sure these are anomolies more like new charges that are here to stay.

[Mike]

  On 06/01/2021 at 06:08, Dylan said:

Yes I read the press release the cycle part company put out.  Essentially it wasn’t good.

 

i am not so sure these are anomolies more like new charges that are here to stay.

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what are similar sites up to ?

such as discogs etc 

anything?

 

[Dylan]

  On 06/01/2021 at 08:47, Mike said:

 

what are similar sites up to ?

such as discogs etc 

anything?

 

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I am wondering the same myself to be honest.  I sometimes buy items from Europe myself and not all sites have published changes yet.  I would guess people may be getting unexpected charges even if sites don’t notify them.

 

but that’s only a guess time will tell.

 

I won’t buy for a while.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Dylan

[Mike]

  On 06/01/2021 at 09:12, Dylan said:

I am wondering the same myself to be honest.  I sometimes buy items from Europe myself and not all sites have published changes yet.  I would guess people may be getting unexpected charges even if sites don’t have to notify. They are coming.

 

but that’s only a guess time will tell.

 

I won’t buy for a while.

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yep, it's one of those... the more you think about it, the bigger it may be

especially if you look beyond vinyl trading

after all,  if ebay are affected then won't amazon be?

[Blackpoolsoul]

  On 05/01/2021 at 23:48, Tomangoes said:

Without getting political.....brexit has resulted in changes to imported goods. From whats been on the news, exporters to the UK need to do some registration and red tape form filling.

There was a Belgian manufacturer of bicycle seats, who has now said they will not send product to the UK due to the new legal requirements.

Still, its early days, and I'm sure certain anomalies will get ironed out.

Ed

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Somewhere in my brain second hand goods are different and discussions about UK-EU are ongoing and July 2021 ring a bell, but I am no expert

[Tomangoes]

There's a bad feeling left when you bought something from abroad, only to find its held in a secure holding place until you pay some tax on it.

I had it with a play station from the USA years ago.

Not sure how to circumvent this, but if its now goods from the EU, it will be reciprocal and change buying and selling habits.

Ed

 

[Mike]

  On 04/01/2021 at 18:43, Soulof said:

Think Ebay just keeping themself right here to be fair.  I work outsourced for a shipping company and we got a memo about this today.  

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

"The new arrangements will also involve the abolition of Low Value Consignment Relief, which relieves import VAT on consignments of goods valued at £15 or less.

Online marketplaces (OMPs), where they are involved in facilitating the sale, will be responsible for collecting and accounting for the VAT."   

strange I have not seen this info before but probably focus is elsewhere atm.  Got a record just before this luckily reckon Discogs and others have to do the same

 

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ah, looking like those links are informative

Online marketplaces (OMPs), where they are involved in facilitating the sale, will be responsible for collecting and accounting for the VAT."   

thanks for sharing

 

[Dylan]

Not vinyl but I sometimes buy clothing online from Italy and imagine this will be affected.  I keep checking the site but no information yet.

 

Discounted clothing me be a thing of the past....

 

primark here I come.

 

update : so 135gbp is the cut off point for clothing anything over that has additional tariffs.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Dylan

[Thinksmart]

I'm on Amazon as an occasional seller and confirm it is affected too.  I no longer sell outside UK - it's just too complicated for a few Soul CDs.  I haven't seen anything yet myself on Discogs where I do sell a few too that are too rare for Amazon.

[Bocanada]

Buying from the usual suspect ebay.com sellers might no longer be a an option with the 20% VAT added on top.

I'm sure Discogs will soon update their tax policies – bummer.

A good time to fill in wants in other genres that are easily sourced from within the UK, perhaps?

 

[Bocanada]

Discogs thread on the subject: https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/830628

Reply from Discogs support on the subject:

  Quote

Thanks for reaching out and good question!

Last thing I heard was that we may not qualify as a Marketplace Facilitator in the UK (as we do in many states in the US, Australia, New Zealand, etc).
Still, this is not confirmed. Rest assured that you have not missed a statement by Discogs on this.

I have forwarded your question to one of my colleagues who knows more about this. I will let you know once I hear from him.

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[Source Team]

the non vinyl marketplace vat related posts have been split off and moved to current affairs forum and topic here

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/forums/topic/415680-current-affairs-topic-2021/

 

[Chalky]

what is happening with VAT here now will be applied to EU countries from July I think I read?

[Tomangoes]

I assume vinyl for records come as blanks ready to cut?

So if these blanks came from the EU....and the song was cut in the UK...what happens when that gets exported back to the EU?

Ed

[Bo Diddley]

Just won a record on Ebay.

Record - $4.25, postage - $14.75, VAT - $3.80 = Total $22.80. 

The VAT addition is shown on some items but not on others. It wasn't showing on this one. No big deal but I did wonder if it would escape as VAT wasn't mentioned.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Bo Diddley

[Bocanada]

@Bo Diddley I noticed that if I go to ebay.com whilst being logged in, the 20% is not shown. However, if I look at the same item (also logged in) in ebay.co.uk, the 20% is shown.

Did you checkout via ebay.co.uk?

All my items posted on ebay.com have the 20% VAT. Whilst some others, posted on EU ebay sites, do not. It's quite confusing.

[John A]

  On 09/01/2021 at 20:13, Bo Diddley said:

Just won a record on Ebay.

Record - $4.25, postage - $14.75, VAT - $3.80 = Total $22.80. 

The VAT addition is shown on some items but not on others. It wasn't showing on this one. No big deal but I did wonder if it would escape as VAT wasn't mentioned.

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So they're charging VAT on the shipping as well? I ain't half glad I don't buy nowhere near as much from the U.S. As I used to.

[Kempy]

Would expect most buyers will now think twice about bidding on records from the States-especially the high end stuff.

Could this situation force prices to rise from UK sellers ?

[Bo Diddley]

  On 09/01/2021 at 20:28, Bocanada said:

@Bo Diddley I noticed that if I go to ebay.com whilst being logged in, the 20% is not shown. However, if I look at the same item (also logged in) in ebay.co.uk, the 20% is shown.

Did you checkout via ebay.co.uk?

All my items posted on ebay.com have the 20% VAT. Whilst some others, posted on EU ebay sites, do not. It's quite confusing.

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Hi, It was interesting that the VAT wasn't shown on either .co.uk or .com.

I've had lot's of enjoyment from buying cheap records on eBay over the years. However, with VAT on the item value and postage, I don't think I'll bother. 

As mentioned above, it's OK if you get an expensive record, say £500 for £250. The postage and VAT still mean it's decent value. In the past, I've taken the potential VAT and post office handling charge into account when dealing with a seller I haven't bought from in the past. Now it's certain to be added, ALL my bids will be 20% lower.

[Godzilla]

  On 09/01/2021 at 18:08, Tomangoes said:

I assume vinyl for records come as blanks ready to cut?

So if these blanks came from the EU....and the song was cut in the UK...what happens when that gets exported back to the EU?

Ed

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Vinyl isn’t cut Ed - It’s pressed from lumps of raw vinyl called pucks.

More to the point, the vast majority of vinyl releases are pressed and warehoused in Europe. Hundreds of indie stores in the UK had orders cancelled by a major label in early January when a load of lorries were turned back on the way to Calais. 

[Bocanada]

@Bo Diddley Thanks for the details. I too enjoyed several wins over the years. However, knowing that we'll have a 20% added on top of ALL sales, it will be a bit difficult to compete with other bidders. I have a few items I'm watching that will finish this week. I might be my last foray at the import game

If, however, the value of the purchase is £135 or more, the 20% VAT will not be added and it will be dealt as it was before. Am I right in thinking that the VAT + import duty will be charged based on what's declared on the customs tax form – exactly as it was before?

[Tomangoes]

  On 10/01/2021 at 09:42, Godzilla said:

Vinyl isn’t cut Ed - It’s pressed from lumps of raw vinyl called pucks.

More to the point, the vast majority of vinyl releases are pressed and warehoused in Europe. Hundreds of indie stores in the UK had orders cancelled by a major label in early January when a load of lorries were turned back on the way to Calais. 

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Shocking.

Don't tell me after all the time spent on the free trade deal, scenarios like this were not debated.

Talk about the devil is in the detail...

What an understatement.

Ed

[Blackpoolsoul]

  On 09/01/2021 at 20:13, Bo Diddley said:

Just won a record on Ebay.

Record - $4.25, postage - $14.75, VAT - $3.80 = Total $22.80. 

The VAT addition is shown on some items but not on others. It wasn't showing on this one. No big deal but I did wonder if it would escape as VAT wasn't mentioned.

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The VAT raises a few good points and questions

1. In the situation above I personally would withdraw from the sale (unless it was made clear at the outset and I knew what to expect)

2. Do Paypal already get a cut on postage (never mind there cut on the item purchased) and will that that they will also happily take their cut on the VAT (I hope the authorities will take a look at that, if correct).             

3 Prices will most likely drop their prices by the VAT rate so Sellers will lose on profits and the greedy Governments will get the % instead ?

  On 10/01/2021 at 11:13, Tomangoes said:

Shocking.

Don't tell me after all the time spent on the free trade deal, scenarios like this were not debated.

Talk about the devil is in the detail...

What an understatement.

Ed

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This is where we were all fooled it was a "trade" deal not a "consumer" deal

[Ted Massey]

So most of the large EBay sellers like Carolinasoul who have until now always entered a low value on the ticket wont do that any more as the duty will already be added. i bet his prices are going to fall 

 

[Jnixon]

  On 10/01/2021 at 12:29, Ted Massey said:

So most of the large EBay sellers like Carolinasoul who have until now always entered a low value on the ticket wont do that any more as the duty will already be added. i bet his prices are going to fall 

 

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I though that initially but wondered how much of the market we really are in the uk. Jason sells all sorts, his prices may dip for northern if at all but that would be it if suspect. 

There are plenty of other collectors in the world, some in the most obscure of places. 

Will be interesting to see what happens. 

[Bocanada]

@Ted Massey @Jnixon Yeah, I wouldn't expect prices to drop. The UK, albeit big, is just a piece of the soul market. I'm sure lots of those auctions stay local (US) and a huge portion makes it to Japan.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Bocanada

[Dave Pinch]

  On 10/01/2021 at 12:29, Ted Massey said:

So most of the large EBay sellers like Carolinasoul who have until now always entered a low value on the ticket wont do that any more as the duty will already be added. i bet his prices are going to fall 

 

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it probably wont have an immediate affect on him ted but when guys realise that when they win a record for 500 quid but with the taxes and add ons ends up up costing them nearer 700 they might think again about it

[Jnixon]

  On 10/01/2021 at 12:52, Bocanada said:

@Ted Massey @Jnixon Yeah, I wouldn't expect prices to drop. The UK, albeit big, is just a piece of the soul market. I'm sure lots of those auctions stay local (US) and a huge portion makes it to Japan.

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A lot of decent stuff ends up in Japan, this I do know. 

[Chalky]

The Uk northern scene is still diving the prices especially the classics

[Frankie Crocker]

Definitely a topic worthy of discussion. I am not sure why eBay have introduced this surcharge. Neither am I sure why it is classed as a VAT charge. UK-USA transactions should not be affected by any post Brexit legislation surely? At a guess, I suspect it is the tax evasion antics of the FANGS that have prompted government to clamp down on the likes of eBay etc who shift their finances offshore to mask profit levels and tax potential. So, as I see it, this 20% is something eBay will keep and maybe, just maybe, give a bit to the government, but I would be doubtful about the whole procedure. The upshot of this charge will be to deter bidders, force bidders into factoring extra charges into calculations, a fall in US sales figures quoted on eBay, Popsike etc and a global shift in record buying. Some will boycott USA eBay sellers and switch buying preferences to UK sellers on eBay, Soul Source or privately when soul nights etc return. Looking further ahead, maybe collectors will fly more frequently to the States on buying trips, record conventions and private business.

[Tomangoes]

Although I'm no longer vat registered...when I was, you better hand it all over to the hmrc, unless you've got vat you've paid yourself to claim against it.

If anybody is making a killing its hmrc.

Ed

[Crogger]

So, I have now purchased two records,from different sellers,since 1/1/21.The first one totalled $140-67,with postage,no vat,the second one was $170-50 plus $34-50 vat. The vat is not only being charged on the purchase cost but on the USA postage cost as well! I used to be registered for vat,a long time ago,then you had to provide an invoice with your vat number displayed and you had to be the seller of the goods.Does this mean that eBay are the sellers and should provide us with a vat number?As boring as all this sounds,things have probably changed since my day and you’d have to imagine thar eBay and HMRC have got together and come up with this.Also what are the ramifications with regard to the actual postage costs? Are you still going to get a relatively expensive record sent for$15? In addition,what happens when the expensive record lands in theUK,will it be subject to more scrutiny? Watch this space! Apologies for sounding like the (Prophet of Doom).

Clive.

[Blackpoolsoul]

  On 12/01/2021 at 23:27, crogger said:

So, I have now purchased two records,from different sellers,since 1/1/21.The first one totalled $140-67,with postage,no vat,the second one was $170-50 plus $34-50 vat. The vat is not only being charged on the purchase cost but on the USA postage cost as well! I used to be registered for vat,a long time ago,then you had to provide an invoice with your vat number displayed and you had to be the seller of the goods.Does this mean that eBay are the sellers and should provide us with a vat number?As boring as all this sounds,things have probably changed since my day and you’d have to imagine thar eBay and HMRC have got together and come up with this.Also what are the ramifications with regard to the actual postage costs? Are you still going to get a relatively expensive record sent for$15? In addition,what happens when the expensive record lands in theUK,will it be subject to more scrutiny? Watch this space! Apologies for sounding like the (Prophet of Doom).

Clive.

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I am no expert on VAT however I am guessing that HMRC and the like are using OMP's to collect the VAT as it was more difficult via the delivery service at the door and it's actually quite clever as buyers were often asking the seller to lower the value on customs to avoid tax on arrival, (You buyers know who you are !!!!)

As for the "error" on one of your purchases I assume you have messaged for an explantation and will let us know what they say please