New Soul Series On Bbc4 Starting 2nd Feb

[Guest]

Given the choice of Eric or the mediocre Geno Washington I'd take the "White Man's Burdon" anyday. Geno did make a couple of good records, "Water" being especially good, but he wasn't really that much of a singer in his youth - he was just right for the time, as the saying goes...

TONE

When Eric Burdon and Chris Farlowe joined Otis on stage on the RSG special I thought Eric more than held his own alongside Otis, showing what he could do and more than confident in his ability, Chris Farlowe seemed in awe of the man/men he was sharing the stage with......I also think "Water" is Geno's best effort on vinyl... was it a cover version?

Edited February 4, 2007 by DelTee

[Guest]

The first record I went and bought with my own money was The Rollng Stones ' Little Red Rooster'/Off The Hook'. The second was The Animals 'Inside Looking Out'/"Outcast'. It was thirty five years later when I discovered the original of 'Outcas twas Eddie And Ernie and I only discovered THAT when I heard the instrumental ! I like The Animals version of it and can hear it now. But I have no memory at all of what 'Inside Looking Out' sounds like.

[Guest]

I saw him in the street about a year ago from the top of a bus. He was dressed as a character from a 1927 Laurel and Hardy movie.

And your point is ........

You say this like it is a bad thing!!!

LOL Karen...Stan Laurels my favourite actor (honest) so not a bad thing...but he looked like he was going to a fancy dress party. Maybe he was?

( and I changed it from a Will Hay movie !)

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

I also think "Water" is Geno's best effort on vinyl... was it a cover version?

It's written by American writers - the same team, I think, that wrote the Animals' It's My Life"! - but I have an idea that "Water" is a Geno original, rather like the aformentioned "...Life" and, of course, Manfred Mann's "Pretty Flamingo" (also written by an American) in that there's no US 'original', other than the songwriter's unissued demo.

What's absolutely certain, in my mind at least, is that it's one of the best ever-UK recorded soul records

TONE

[Mike Lofthouse]

In his prime, Eric sang with a lot of soul, as anyone who's ever heard the Animals "Don't Bring Me Down", "It's My Life" or their version of Eddie and Ernie's "Outcast" will hopefully agree. The fantastic "They Can't Take Away Our Music" that he made with War and RCA heroine Sharon Scott is pretty gut-wrenching stuff, too

TONE

What's the story with 'It's My Life' - love it by Timmy Thomas on Goldwax - but the the 45 credits the writers as Thomas- Claunch - Russell, were they rumbled as the Kent CD credits Roger Atkins and Carl D'Errico ? Was this a case of Black America 'ripping off' white England

Mike

[Guest 71TRSC]

Just watched this. I thought it wasn't half bad. Until the narrator mentioned mods on mopeds

sweet baby jesus

[Guest mel brat]

Very good show - looking forward to rest of series.

J.

Not really quiet! Been too busy posting elsewhere to comment on this so far! Since I attracted so much flack before. I will wait until the series ends... However many of my initial points and dire warnings appear to have been vindicated already! (Just wait 'til next week...!)

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

What's the story with 'It's My Life' - love it by Timmy Thomas on Goldwax - but the the 45 credits the writers as Thomas- Claunch - Russell, were they rumbled as the Kent CD credits Roger Atkins and Carl D'Errico ? Was this a case of Black America 'ripping off' white England

Mike

Hi Mike,

I think it's just a mistake on the Timmy Thomas record, I'd bet that Timmy got the same demo as the Animals and when the Goldwax masters were sent up to distributors Bell, the label copy was assembled wrongly.

Having met former Goldwax boss Quinton Claunch on a few occasions, I have to say that I don't think he'd have ever ripped someone off knowingly. I'm sure that this was a genuine mistake, made at the time, that just got perpetrated down the years until Kent came along...

Best,

TONY

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Not really quiet! Been too busy posting elsewhere to comment on this so far! Since I attracted so much flack before. I will wait until the series ends... However many of my initial points and dire warnings appear to have been vindicated already! (Just wait 'til next week...!)

And here's us thinking you were far too busy eating a whacking great humble pie to come to the PC

TONE

[Guest Simon]

I like The Animals version of it and can hear it now. But I have no memory at all of what 'Inside Looking Out' sounds like.

It's brill Si, very powerful record, i've played it out a few times at Mod/6ts dos.

Simon

[Guest]

Dex`ys what a load of tosh,and K R did nothing only front a successfull band and take the cedit for his mates records will he rotted away in a nut house,keep em`.

[Sebastian]

That said, I've still got my copies of "She Shot A Hole In My Soul",

If you haven't, flip that over for a fantastic self-written tune called "I've Been Hurt By Love".

[Guest Simon]

Dex`ys what a load of tosh,and K R did nothing only front a successfull band and take the cedit for his mates records will he rotted away in a nut house,keep em`.

Well he did do one thing, he was the man responsible for me getting into NS in the first place via 'Seven days too long' from the 'Searching for the young Soul rebels' album, so i'm grateful to him for that.

Funnily enough i've just seen a flyer for him djing at an Indie club in Brighton in February, you never know he might get a few more young kids into NS.

Simon

[Guest MBarrett]

Kevin Rowlands - strange character - but absolutely loved the couple of times I saw DMR's during their "soul" period.

One time was at Leicester University and Rowlands ended up in a fight on stage with one of the bouncers. I have no idea to this day if it was a set up but it all seemed pretty raw and real at the time.

Ref Geno Washington. For me "Hand Clappin' Foot Stompin' Funky Butt . . . . Live" was one of the 10 iconic L.P.'s of the 1960's. For a year or so it was the sound track of our teenage lives.

So imagine the shock when I read recently that IT WASN'T LIVE AT ALL!!

THE AUDIENCE WAS DUBBED ON AFTERWARDS!!!!

Can't say I want my money back though.

MB

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Ref "Hand Clappin' Foot Stompin' Funky Butt . . . . Live" was one of the 10 iconic L.P.'s of the 1960's. For a year or so it was the sound track of our teenage lives.

So imagine the shock when I read recently that IT WASN'T LIVE AT ALL!!

THE AUDIENCE WAS DUBBED ON AFTERWARDS!!!!

MB

That's not actually true, wherever you read it - the session was cut live, with no overdubs, not at a gig but in the Pye Studios at Marble Arch, and the 'audience' was made up of various Pye Records employees - who were asked if they wanted to go along and be as noisy as they liked - on a long lunch break. Wasn't there myself, but I know someone who was, and he verifies this absolutely...

This, of course. is essentially the same technique as the Beach Boys used for their "Beach Boys Party" LP...

TONE

Edited February 5, 2007 by TONY ROUNCE

[Guest MBarrett]

Tony

Thanks for clarifying that.

I must have read that it was a studio recording and made my own (incorrect) interpretation that the audience was dubbed on.

We gullible young mods who desperately wished we could have been there never imagined that the audience was a bunch of folk on their lunch break.

The L.P. cover certainly doesn't give that impression.

But it explains why I never met anyone who claimed to have been there.

And in all honesty I guess they would never have got that clarity and balance of sound if it had been TRULY live.

Thanks again for the clarification.

MB

[Ady Croasdell]

If you haven't, flip that over for a fantastic self-written tune called "I've Been Hurt By Love".

Spot on as ever Sebastian, it's one of his best.

[Saxafone]

Went to the Soul Brittania concert at the Barbican last night, being transmitted as part of this series on Feb 16th. Madelline Bell, Geno, Jimmy James, Eddie Floyd and Sam Moore all performing against a backdrop of soul vids - wigan shots and scooters aplenty.

Madelline did a reasonable version of picture me gone having been introduced as the darling of Northern Soul

Too many of em on one after the other and a crappy cod committments finale with em all on stage. Less would have been more with none at all of Eric Burdon even better.

Never seen Geno live before - he stole the show last night - top man and a nutter to boot !

Taff

[Guest]

If you haven't, flip that over for a fantastic self-written tune called "I've Been Hurt By Love".

Little story Sebastian.... I got a 'phone call a few weeks ago from a certain Mr I Levine who was attending the preview of the TV programme. He asked if I remembered what the Geno Washington record he used to play at The Rocket was, as he couldn't remember.

"I've Been Hurt By Love ' said I (we discussed it a lot on ANS mk 1, as I know you remember).

"Yes ! That was it !" said he or rather shouted he, because it was noisy and well, because he shouts anyway because the old dear is going deaf now, he's nearly 60.

The next day I got another phone call from Mr Levine.

He'd been chatting to Geno that night at the preview and he told him how he used to play a brilliant record of his, 'I've Been Hurt By Love'....and Geno denied ever making a record called 'I've Been Hurt By Love'.

And that's the strange world of Northern Soul.

P.S. On the subject of live albums there's a whole bunch of mixed Little Richard recordings on Modern which actually are live but the album has terrible terrible audience screams dubbed over them. Luckily, some are available on 45 without the screaming. Wasn't there a Williams and Watson one recorded in the UK ?

[Guest Darks]

P.S. On the subject of live albums there's a whole bunch of mixed Little Richard recordings on Modern which actually are live but the album has terrible terrible audience screams dubbed over them. Luckily, some are available on 45 without the screaming. Wasn't there a Williams and Watson one recorded in the UK ?

Sorry to go off thread. I can't answer your question Simon but I do have a UK Pye International EP with Chuck Jackson, Maxine Brown and the Shirelles and I someone else, can't find the bleeding thing. Has a picture sleeve.

It has Chuck sing "Hand it over" Maxine singing "Since I found you" but it is described as a live recording. However, I suspect that it is the original recordings with crowd noises dubbed on. Anyone know what the fascination was with live records?

Enjoyed the programme. Didn't expect it to be perfect. Thought the bit with the Chants was the best. You never hear much about Hi-Life music.

Regards Alan

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

It was a great show but for me to make it stand out and keep it going would be that everything went in sequence so they start off with the early soul and work up to current day stuff. it could be covered in a few programmes and if any artist has to be covered more then once ie Jimmy James who could pop up when talking about disco music of the 70's. So be it and you should try and include all the major soul acts who charted and a few obscure ones.

maybe at end they can do a nice show with performances old and new

[Sebastian]

Little story Sebastian.... I got a 'phone call a few weeks ago from a certain Mr I Levine who was attending the preview of the TV programme. He asked if I remembered what the Geno Washington record he used to play at The Rocket was, as he couldn't remember.

"I've Been Hurt By Love ' said I (we discussed it a lot on ANS mk 1, as I know you remember).

"Yes ! That was it !" said he or rather shouted he, because it was noisy and well, because he shouts anyway because the old dear is going deaf now, he's nearly 60.

The next day I got another phone call from Mr Levine.

He'd been chatting to Geno that night at the preview and he told him how he used to play a brilliant record of his, 'I've Been Hurt By Love'....and Geno denied ever making a record called 'I've Been Hurt By Love'.

And that's the strange world of Northern Soul.

Great stuff, Simon! I can clearly imagine Ian trying to convince Geno that he really DID record that tune... Kind of miss Ian at times, lots of energy!

[FrankM]

Anyone know what the fascination was with live records?

The success of James Brown live at the Apollo. It was live but King also released albums with applause dubbed in e.g. Showtime.

[Guest]

Great stuff, Simon! I can clearly imagine Ian trying to convince Geno that he really DID record that tune... Kind of miss Ian at times, lots of energy!

High energy I suppose? (groan)

I got a telling off from him last night when I raised doubts about the programme, which he rates very highly (perhaps cos he's in it !) , so I'm going to shut up til I've seen it. It's just the long buried memory of Dexy Midnight Runners in the dungeree look made my flesh crawl all over again...

[timthemod]

On the subject of Geno Washington 'Water' was written by Roger Atkins and Helen Miller, Atkins of course also wrote 'It's My Life' . 'Hurt By Love' was written by Geno himself.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

.

It has Chuck sing "Hand it over" Maxine singing "Since I found you" but it is described as a live recording. However, I suspect that it is the original recordings with crowd noises dubbed on. Anyone know what the fascination was with live records?

I know you addressed this question to Si, Darks, but allow me -

"Since I Found You" is definitely a proper, authentic live recording and a very good one, too! I haven't heard this EP for years so I can't comment on Chuck but, of course, he did have a live album on Wand that was, indeed, mostly genuinely live - the only two overdubbed studio recordings on it were "I'll Never Turn My Back On You" and "Beg Me". I'd be interested to know myself if "Hand It Over" was faux-live or the real deal.

TONE

[Guest Dr Bob Jones]

...My mate Steve Barrow, is who it was/is that you're referring to, Ady. And unlike many of the people who will undoubtedly come on this forum and bitch about what wasn't included, or what was wrong about this series (and I see that some have already made a start at that, even though it's not even been transmitted yet!) Steve was actually 'there', he did go down the Scene, Flamingo etc and other places of that ilk. I've not seen this series myself, but those I know who have (like Ady and Roger) are people whose opinions I trust to be right and neither they nor anyone else I know who has seen the previews has said a bad word about it so far.

As has been said elsewhere, it's better than CBB. And we really do need to be positive about these kind of programmes at all times, in order to keep the BBC commissioning them. Let's face it, it's not like we get 'em every week, is it?

TONE

Yes Tone

like your mate Mr Barrow, I too attended the Flamingo, Whisky A Go Go, The Scene,and The Crawdaddy in Richmond. I remember coming home from school on a Friday and making my train journey from Chelmsford to London, with my small holdall, on a Friday night and I wouldn't return home until Sunday evening, ready for school again on Monday. This was a regular occurence for me every week. Wouldn've been nice to be asked, obviously not known to those who produced the series.

Regards

The Doc

'I live the life I love and love the life I live'

[Souljazera]

...My mate Steve Barrow, is who it was/is that you're referring to, Ady. And unlike many of the people who will undoubtedly come on this forum and bitch about what wasn't included, or what was wrong about this series (and I see that some have already made a start at that, even though it's not even been transmitted yet!) Steve was actually 'there', he did go down the Scene, Flamingo etc and other places of that ilk. I've not seen this series myself, but those I know who have (like Ady and Roger) are people whose opinions I trust to be right and neither they nor anyone else I know who has seen the previews has said a bad word about it so far.

As has been said elsewhere, it's better than CBB. And we really do need to be positive about these kind of programmes at all times, in order to keep the BBC commissioning them. Let's face it, it's not like we get 'em every week, is it?

TONE

WELL SAID....always easier to be a moaner.....cant wait to see it

Edited February 9, 2007 by souljazera