Admirations (Merged Topic)

[Tagtag]

I bought a record a long time ago from a seller in Spain (before COVID-19).

Waited months for it, asked for a tracking number and told it was on the way but no information provided.

Asked for a refund, nothing.

Eventually the seller admitted the disc was on the way to them from the USA!

It did eventually arrive but why so many lies?

[Lionelonthevinyl]

3 hours ago, Tagtag said:

I bought a record a long time ago from a seller in Spain (before COVID-19).

Waited months for it, asked for a tracking number and told it was on the way but no information provided.

Asked for a refund, nothing.

Eventually the seller admitted the disc was on the way to them from the USA!

It did eventually arrive but why so many lies?

That's bloody stupid....if you were 're selling after USA purchase, at least wait for it to arrive before listing it for sale...can't be doing with nob heads!!!!...kind regards...Rob

Edited August 11, 2020 by Lionelonthevinyl

[Tagtag]

I wasn't reselling. The seller in Spain had taken my payment for a record that he was expecting from the states. The problem was he told me it was on the way to me when he hadn't even received it from the states.

[Soul-slider]

8 minutes ago, Tagtag said:

I wasn't reselling. The seller in Spain had taken my payment for a record that he was expecting from the states. The problem was he told me it was on the way to me when he hadn't even received it from the states.

I think Rob was referring to the seller in Spain, not you. 

I've had this problem before, annoying! At the moment I have been waiting for a record from France for over a month. No movement on the tracking number!

Edited August 11, 2020 by Soul-slider

[Lionelonthevinyl]

I was indeed referring to the Spanish seller not the poster of the article...sorry for confusion...Thank you...Rob

[Tagtag]

Glad we cleared that up, thanks.

Just wondering if the answer to the original question from Vadnochka could be that his seller in Spain has not actually laid hands on a record that he has already sold. Blaming Covid related problems is all too convenient at the moment.

[Lionelonthevinyl]

I've bought a record from vadnochka (can't remember what) top straight forward guy to deal with....hope he's not got a nightmare with chasing sellers,  refunds etc....it's just a bloody pain...good luck....Rob

[Vadnochka]

All,

Alleged pkt tracked all the way to Int. Processing Centre ( IPC ) - Langley from Spain - A pkt was scanned through the Spanish postal system from 3rd July - accepted for outward transit - arrived and scanned in Langley IPC Tues. 14 / 7 11.47 am - Then the problems start - No further scanning since  14th July 01.12 pm - states on its way to you - out of Langley - Internal checks with local staff whom I know gives that the pkt had not been processed beyond Langley and had an invalid post code - LE6 06F Part address = 90 Burton Coalville Leicestershire LE6 06F. Coalville is LE67 and I don't live there. 

Print out from local office shows that pkt has not moved beyond Langley IPC - It is impossible to talk to anyone at Langley although I know the transit container no. the pkt arrived in. 

In all this of course there is no confirmation what is in this pkt !! which is why I'm asking if anyone who appears to have bought some of the other big ticket items like the Admirations  & Andantes from ytraxx who has a 100% rating on Discogs from 96 items.

So basically looking for anyone else who actually thought or did buy items from that April listing on Discogs - I have watched the fact that Jackie Day - Naughty Boy and Melvin Moore remain unsold/still listed 

Thanks in anticipation

[Tagtag]

I didn't buy anything from this seller but by a strange coincidence I did place an order with him on discogs for a cheap (18 euros) disc about a week ago. A few days later he sent a message via discogs to say that he thought the record was already sold and he had forgot to remove it from his listings.

[Nick Soule]

There was a small thread about this seller on a Facebook group when the records where initially listed for sale. The general opinion was that he didn’t actually have the records that he was listing, at least the “grail” 45s he listed all at once. I asked repeatedly for pictures of the Andantes 45 he had with no response. He was also asking for payment as a gift and not through Discogs, which adds to the suspicion. Hope it works out for you...

[Vadnochka]

Thanks

[Lambrettagp200]

Is this the guy who wanted paid by a friends & family payment with PayPal?

[Chalky]

Who is the seller, link to sales?

Edited August 13, 2020 by Chalky

[Girdwoodinc]

7 hours ago, Chalky said:

Who is the seller, link to sales?

Chalky sure this was on discogs and the guy listed up quite a few hard to gets, was covered over on Vinyl Vigilantes on FB and Edu said that it was a scam (seller in Spain but was British apparently)

[Tagtag]

Link to the sellers Discogs listings below:

https://www.discogs.com/seller/ytraxx/profile?sort=price%2Cdesc&limit=25

 

[John Hart]

Hi Vadnochka, 

                         Dealt with Ytraxx on July 8th this year 2 Philly "City edits" total 62 euros, on Discogs . after a week came back with could not find St louis so would offer Boston or refund ? I said yes but asked for discount ,we agreed on he would pay shipping {between 4 to 8 ,forget which ?] Finally arrived after one month Discs fine . So gave good feedback !

But ,but I always need peoples real names eventually told me it was Ariel {Hebrew christian name} but no.more, think he asked for F anF but I went through discogs{ Fand F not recommended but condoned on here?}.

 I am a  little suspicous of him ,60 odd discs on discogs with a handful of unrelated NS items. On the broader issue of Spanish sellers; the culture of Manana {Whenever } after 20years here is still hard to handle!!  But the all Yorkies are mean etc ,etc,?                         Best of Luck .

 

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Girdwoodinc said:

Chalky sure this was on discogs and the guy listed up quite a few hard to gets, was covered over on Vinyl Vigilantes on FB and Edu said that it was a scam (seller in Spain but was British apparently)

Looks dodgy and asking for F&F always raises suspicion

[Dave Pinch]

52 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Looks dodgy and asking for F&F always raises suspicion

unless really well known and reliable imo

[Girdwoodinc]

26 minutes ago, Dave Pinch said:

unless really well known and reliable imo

That I would agree upon and you guys are definitely trustworthy and reliable 

[Frankie Crocker]

Very few copies of the Admirations on Peaches exist. Even fewer of the Poets on JV. The Andantes is dog-rare. Very few people on Planet Earth own all three of these records. Jackie Day is very scarce. Unless a top collector was selling up, I would not expect a dealer to have all these titles for sale in a short space of time.

[Blackpoolsoul]

3 hours ago, Tagtag said:

Link to the sellers Discogs listings below:

https://www.discogs.com/seller/ytraxx/profile?sort=price%2Cdesc&limit=25

 

100% feedback....nice one

[Chalky]

4 hours ago, Dave Pinch said:

unless really well known and reliable imo

yes of course but given the info available and the scarcity of some of the records he looks dodgy, unless a reliable person was to come forward who could vouch for the seller then I wouldn't touch him with yours Dave

[Tlscapital]

Resurrection time for me here. With acknowledgement of my initial theory being now factually proved wrong about the Paree being last in line of the Admirations release. Allowing thus to finally set the score and establish a more coherent although not yet definitive discography for the group.

Leaving the three different Peaches pressings wonder in chronology of events. But here featured with plausible classifications if ever. Opening up again this quest in hope for corrections, complements, comments and critics in order to confirm, establish or review anything.

Hardly ever letting go, some 5 years later, I'm back on the case trying to figure out and establish a date of release crossing all front and side factors in regards of all the elements I can in order to refine the year then the month of those who were not given ones yet.

At first to me (until today) the Paree single label general visual appearance and the typos used were reminiscent of later sixties Chicago releases. More so than mid sixties ones. Looking very much like the releases of the Soul Majestic's on Al-Tog to begin with.

Or even to their first release on Chicago Blues Bag just like the Legends 45 'got to let you go' on Red Ballon for better known examples. Then there's actually loads of other small acts 1968-9 Chicago pressed singles from that pressing plants using the same typos and fonts.

That which I seemingly gave too much importance to back then in trying to establish the year of release for this Paree 45. But now I get to understand that this Chicago plant already used newly acquired label letterings blocs with new fonts and typos by mid 1967.

A recent flipping through my records seeing my copy of Bobby McLure's 'chained to your heart' on Checker revealed the same fonts and typos on my Chicago press. The previous number on Checker by Maurice and Mac too ! Both dates from June 1967 !

Thinking rightfully back then that the Paree single used the very same fonts and typos as the Soul Majestic's on Al-Tog and was likely released around the same time I was wrongfully putting it last in line of the Admirations discography against all reliable words.

Words that the Paree was first now proved to be right. Taking those two elements into account with the fact that 'heaven in your arm' (no good side IMO) is the one song that reveals indeed a very young amateurish sounding young lead singer making it more so plausible.

Also worth mentioning that the Paree record also features the involvement as producers and composers of both then current One-Derful group partners Otis Hayes and Jimmy Jones. Enforcing again the One-Derful group link before or after the Paree release  if ever.

Giving now the Paree release the possibility in all those regards to at least to predate the One-Derful duo of singles. But more importantly in an attempt to look-out for off-side jobs of Otis Hayes and Jimmy Jones outside the One-Derful group, to no avail, I stumbled upon this...

...THE Mar-V-Lus rare mispress of Alvin Cash & the Registers 'different strokes for diff'rent folks' playing the Admirations 'heaven in your arms' instead. A record due to release in July 1967. And this mispress mix-up at the pressing plant is not your regular template one.

The mix-up happened at the laquer stage as the template used to press that Alvin Cash & the Registers 45 features the correct matrix '3235' (not the Paree '117 B' one) for their 'diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks'. A very first batch of pressings in error indicating a close release date.

Allowing us to set the Paree in June 1967 or about. All this settles that clearly. Now reading about the local public enthusiasm for the act counting only 4 singles allows me to believe that these were released in a short time window frame. Leaving to figure the Peaches story now. 

Their One-Derful 4849 'wait till I get to know you' from November 1967 was pressed three times. One using thin and small typos like rough 'Time New Roman' printed like on the Peaches releases. This was the very first One-Derful release using that pressing plant typos and fonts.

Their following One-Derful 4851 'all for you' was pressed two times and one time with this same 'Times New Roman' fonts typos. Dating from January 1968. This is the last One-Derful record back then ever to be pressed. After that the One-Deful group shutted-down all operations. 

The first Admirations on One-Derful is an Eddie Silvers production. Working then for One-Derful & Co. just like on the Peaches release that was co-produced by both Eddie Silvers and Keith Gordon. Predicting then the Admirations oncoming to One-Derful records maybe ?

The three pressing variations of their Peaches single were all done at the same pressing plant using the same fonts and typos like used for their releases at One-Derful. Indicating a close by in time kinda link preceding or following the releases of their One-Derful singles somehow.

Hence why considering the Eddie Silvers involvement allow me to picture him releasing their Peaches single a first time mid or later 1967 before bringing them to One-Derful. That on top could then tell a story for the three Peaches pressings in label and group naming variations.

Most likely the Aspirations 45 on Peaches was not done after their One-Derful journey since the 'cast out' of Eddie Silvers for their second One-Deful HIT release swapping him for Pojo as co-producer could actually tell us another not so happy ending story yet to be revealed.

This is re-enforced by the following single in 1968 (?) of Walter (Walter Smith sole ex member of the original Admirations) & the Admirations (not the actual ones) on La-Cindy showing a continuous involvement of the 'Teddy Bear' production like for both their One-derfuls !

If the Peaches (first credited then to the Aspirations) allowed them to sign a contract at One-Derful making their first HIT with their rebranded name the Admirations where Eddie Silvers was not involved anymore with this second One-Derful 45 of theirs it doesn't look good !

Was Eddie Silvers 'cast aside' by the band or the label ? Was the repress of the Peaches single under their corrected name an attempt in revenge trying to cash-back on that ? Late 1967 early 1968 seems like troubled times at One-Deful to tell any better who did what there.

Anyway most likely after the folding down of the One-Derful group the Admirations could have felt discouraged some as their height was abruptly put to a halt with the sudden disappearance of such a 'corner stone' in local history. The One-Deful group was no more.

The end of time...

Only Walter Smith as original member of the Admirations kept on to do "his things" in music. And pretty good to say the least. But that's whole other chapter or even another story further down the line. Beginning also by tying the Walter & the Admirations legacy to him.

- JUNE 1967- The Admirations 'my admiration for you' on Paree (Otis Hayes & JimmyJones working too for the One-Derful group)

- JULY* (?) 1967 - The Aspirations 'you left me' on Peaches (with the PEACHES logo to the RIGHT first then repress with the logo to the LEFT) (Eddie Silvers working for One-Derful group + same fonts typos as for the One-Derful presses)

- SEPTEMBER* 1967 - The Admirations 'wait till I get to know you' on Onder-Full (Eddie Silvers  for One-Derful group + same fonts typos as for the Peaches presses)

- JANUARY 1968 - The Admirations 'all for you' on One-Derful (NO MORE EDDIE SILVERS !!! + same fonts typos for the Peaches presses)

- FEBRUARY (?) 1968 - The Admirations 'you left me' on Peaches (Eddie Silvers revenge record done alone + re-release under their corrected name of ADMIRATIONS (mismatching typo) to cash on it after being cast aside + similar typos for the credits using different fonts in places than for both the Aspirations releases)

________________________

* CORRECTIONS

Edited June 28, 2023 by Tlscapital

[The Yank]

A correction to your time line- I would put the "Wait Till..." release as late Sept./early Oct. of 1967. Here's a list from  Record World of hot new releases-

 

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by The Yank

[Chalky]

4 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

Resurrection time for me here. With acknowledgement of my initial theory being now factually proved wrong about the Paree being last in line of the Admirations release. Allowing thus to finally set the score and establish a more coherent although not yet definitive discography for the group.

Leaving the three different Peaches pressings wonder in chronology of events. But here featured with plausible classifications if ever. Opening up again this quest in hope for corrections, complements, comments and critics in order to confirm, establish or review anything.

Hardly ever letting go, some 5 years later, I'm back on the case trying to figure out and establish a date of release crossing all front and side factors in regards of all the elements I can in order to refine the year then the month of those who were not given ones yet.

At first to me (until today) the Paree single label general visual appearance and the typos used were reminiscent of later sixties Chicago releases. More so than mid sixties ones. Looking very much like the releases of the Soul Majestic's on Al-Tog to begin with.

Or even to their first release on Chicago Blues Bag just like the Legends 45 'got to let you go' on Red Ballon for better known examples. Then there's actually loads of other small acts 1968-9 Chicago pressed singles from that pressing plants using the same typos and fonts.

That which I seemingly gave too much importance to back then in trying to establish the year of release for this Paree 45. But now I get to understand that this Chicago plant already used newly acquired label letterings blocs with new fonts and typos by mid 1967.

A recent flipping through my records seeing my copy of Bobby McLure's 'chained to your heart' on Checker revealed the same fonts and typos on my Chicago press. The previous number on Checker by Maurice and Mac too ! Both dates from June 1967 !

Thinking rightfully back then that the Paree single used the very same fonts and typos as the Soul Majestic's on Al-Tog and was likely released around the same time I was wrongfully putting it last in line of the Admirations discography against all reliable words.

Words that the Paree was first now proved to be right. Taking those two elements into account with the fact that 'heaven in your arm' (no good side IMO) is the one song that reveals indeed a very young amateurish sounding young lead singer making it more so plausible.

Also worth mentioning that the Paree record also features the involvement as producers and composers of both then current One-Derful group partners Otis Hayes and Jimmy Jones. Enforcing again the One-Derful group link before or after the Paree release  if ever.

Giving now the Paree release the possibility in all those regards to at least to predate the One-Derful duo of singles. But more importantly in an attempt to look-out for off-side jobs of Otis Hayes and Jimmy Jones outside the One-Derful group, to no avail, I stumbled upon this...

...THE Mar-V-lous rare mispress of Alvin Cash & the Registers 'different strokes for diff'rent folks' playing the Admirations 'heaven in your arms' instead. A record due to release in July 1967. And this mispress mix-up at the pressing plant is not your regular template one.

The mix-up happened at the laquer stage as the template used to press that Alvin Cash & the Registers 45 features the correct matrix '3235' (not the Paree '117 B' one) for their 'diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks'. A very first batch of pressings in error indicating a close release date.

Allowing us to set the Paree in June 1967 or about. All this settles that clearly. Now reading about the local public enthusiasm for the act counting only 4 singles allows me to believe that these were released in a short time window frame. Leaving to figure the Peaches story now. 

Their One-Derful 4849 'wait till I get to know you' from November 1967 was pressed three times. One using thin and small typos like rough 'Time New Roman' printed like on the Peaches releases. This was the very first One-Derful release using that pressing plant typos and fonts.

Their following One-Derful 4851 'all for you' was pressed two times and one time with this same 'Times New Roman' fonts typos. Dating from January 1968. This is the last One-Derful record back then ever to be pressed. After that the One-Deful group shutted-down all operations. 

The first Admirations on One-Derful is an Eddie Silvers production. Working then for One-Derful & Co. just like on the Peaches release that was co-produced by both Eddie Silvers and Keith Gordon. Predicting then the Admirations oncoming to One-Derful records maybe ?

The three pressing variations of their Peaches single were all done at the same pressing plant using the same fonts and typos like used for their releases at One-Derful. Indicating a close by in time kinda link preceding or following the releases of their One-Derful singles somehow.

Hence why considering the Eddie Silvers involvement allow me to picture him releasing their Peaches single a first time mid or later 1967 before bringing them to One-Derful. That on top could then tell a story for the three Peaches pressings in label and group naming variations.

Most likely the Aspirations 45 on Peaches was not done after their One-Derful journey since the 'cast out' of Eddie Silvers for their second One-Deful HIT release swapping him for Pojo as co-producer could actually tell us another not so happy ending story yet to be revealed.

This is re-enforced by the following single in 1968 (?) of Walter (Walter Smith sole ex member of the original Admirations) & the Admirations (not the actual ones) on La-Cindy showing a continuous involvement of the 'Teddy Bear' production like for both their One-derfuls !

If the Peaches (first credited then to the Aspirations) allowed them to sign a contract at One-Derful making their first HIT with their rebranded name the Admirations where Eddie Silvers was not involved anymore with this second One-Derful 45 of theirs it doesn't look good !

Was Eddie Silvers 'cast aside' by the band or the label ? Was the repress of the Peaches single under their corrected name an attempt in revenge trying to cash-back on that ? Late 1967 early 1968 seems like troubled times at One-Deful to tell any better who did what there.

Anyway most likely after the folding down of the One-Derful group the Admirations could have felt discouraged some as their height was abruptly put to a halt with the sudden disappearance of such a 'corner stone' in local history. The One-Deful group was no more.

The end of time...

Only Walter Smith as original member of the Admirations kept on to do "his things" in music. And pretty good to say the least. But that's whole other chapter or even another story further down the line. Beginning also by tying the Walter & the Admirations legacy to him.

- JUNE 1967- The Admirations 'my admiration for you' on Paree (Otis Hayes & JimmyJones working too for the One-Derful group)

- JULY* (?) 1967 - The Aspirations 'you left me' on Peaches (logo to the right then after on the left) (Eddie Silvers working for One-Derful group + same fonts typos as for the One-Derful presses)

- SEPTEMBER* 1967 - The Admirations 'wait till I get to know you' on Onder-Full (Eddie Silvers  for One-Derful group + same fonts typos as for the Peaches presses)

- JANUARY 1968 - The Admirations 'all for you' on One-Derful (NO MORE EDDIE SILVERS !!! + same fonts typos for the Peaches presses)

- FEBRUARY (?) 1968 - The Admirations 'you left me' on Peaches (Eddie Sylvers revenge record done alone + re-release under their corrected name of ADMIRATIONS (in capital letters) to cash on it after being cast aside + same fonts typos)

________________________

* CORRECTIONS

There is a topic somewhere about the Admirations discography.  If I remember rightly I had the Paree release first after talking with someone Chicago connected.  Might be an idea to update that topic. Think I posted a photo of the group too.  

[Tlscapital]

15 minutes ago, Chalky said:

There is a topic somewhere about the Admirations discography.  If I remember rightly I had the Paree release first after talking with someone Chicago connected.  Might be an idea to update that topic. Think I posted a photo of the group too.  

Here Chalky. I aimed to post my follow up on that thread actually but wrongfully ended up on this other one about a rip-off Spanian seller of some sort claiming to sell a copy of the Peaches... But here are your fabulous photos and all.

[Motownmagic]

On 11/08/2020 at 16:47, Tagtag said:

I bought a record a long time ago from a seller in Spain (before COVID-19).

Waited months for it, asked for a tracking number and told it was on the way but no information provided.

Asked for a refund, nothing.

Eventually the seller admitted the disc was on the way to them from the USA!

It did eventually arrive but why so many lies?

I’ve had dealing  with this seller, he’s scampster , he refunded me after long time 

[Chalky]

Revised discography that @Tlscapital Comp’ed on another topic.  Thought it best to include here….

Only Walter Smith as original member of the Admirations kept on to do "his things" in music. And pretty good to say the least. But that's whole other chapter or even another story further down the line. Beginning also by tying the Walter & the Admirations legacy to him.

- JUNE 1967- The Admirations 'my admiration for you' on Paree (Otis Hayes & JimmyJones working too for the One-Derful group)

- JULY* (?) 1967 - The Aspirations 'you left me' on Peaches (with the PEACHES logo to the RIGHT first then repress with the logo to the LEFT) (Eddie Silvers working for One-Derful group + same fonts typos as for the One-Derful presses)

- SEPTEMBER* 1967 - The Admirations 'wait till I get to know you' on Onder-Full (Eddie Silvers  for One-Derful group + same fonts typos as for the Peaches presses)

- JANUARY 1968 - The Admirations 'all for you' on One-Derful (NO MORE EDDIE SILVERS !!! + same fonts typos for the Peaches presses)

- FEBRUARY (?) 1968 - The Admirations 'you left me' on Peaches (Eddie Silvers revenge record done alone + re-release under their corrected name of ADMIRATIONS (mismatching typo) to cash on it after being cast aside + similar typos for the credits using different fonts in places than for both the Aspirations releases)

And a possible correction to the timeline courtesy of @The Yank

Quote

A correction to your time line- I would put the "Wait Till..." release as late Sept./early Oct. of 1967. Here's a list from  Record World of hot new releases-

[Tlscapital]

Maybe a last consideration to place otherwise in chronology the actual first releases of the Aspirations on Peaches 45's that's only been guessed at best to this day or placed by 'hearsay'. Much more so than established either by crossings of evidences or more solid written proof. Now considering the fonts and typos again but from a last 'brain flash' of my copy of Otis Clay 'don't pass me by' on One-Derful 4852 that is also the very last issued number of the label FWIW but that most importantly features the artist credit and title in the same fonts and typos in CAPITAL letters !

And that is singular enough as very few Chicago records features those. So I can think of this Otis Clay, the Aspirations on Peaches, both Chuck Ray & Ricky Allen on Tamboo and the Del-Tours on Starville for well known examples. Surely there are other Chicago releases out there with the very same features to add to the list if ever to confirm a window frame. While all these lean toward 1968 this Otis Clay 45 on One-Derfull was likely issued around February or March 1968 TBC. The others are more guessed like according to the sounds or discographies. Could be late 1967 too though.

      ETC.

Since we know yet of nothing about the odd Eddie Silvers "cast out" fate for the Admirations last One-Derful it still is most possible that the Aspirations on Peaches 45 came out just before or after this last Admirations 45 on One-Derful in question rather than like before they sealed their One-Derful contract. The name the Aspirations could have exactly served that purpose (undercover) while still tied by contract to One-Derful. The last Admirations pressing variations on Peaches with the remade credits would then still bee the last in line. For everyone involved to try and cash in on it.

[Dave Pinch]

7 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

Maybe a last consideration to place otherwise in chronology the actual first releases of the Aspirations on Peaches 45's that's only been guessed at best to this day or placed by 'hearsay'. Much more so than established either by crossings of evidences or more solid written proof. Now considering the fonts and typos again but from a last 'brain flash' of my copy of Otis Clay 'don't pass me by' on One-Derful 4852 that is also the very last issued number of the label FWIW but that most importantly features the artist credit and title in the same fonts and typos in CAPITAL letters !

And that is singular enough as very few Chicago records features those. So I can think of this Otis Clay, the Aspirations on Peaches, both Chuck Ray & Ricky Allen on Tamboo and the Del-Tours on Starville for well known examples. Surely there are other Chicago releases out there with the very same features to add to the list if ever to confirm a window frame. While all these lean toward 1968 this Otis Clay 45 on One-Derfull was likely issued around February or March 1968 TBC. The others are more guessed like according to the sounds or discographies. Could be late 1967 too though.

      ETC.

Since we know yet of nothing about the odd Eddie Silvers "cast out" fate for the Admirations last One-Derful it still is most possible that the Aspirations on Peaches 45 came out just before or after this last Admirations 45 on One-Derful in question rather than like before they sealed their One-Derful contract. The name the Aspirations could have exactly served that purpose (undercover) while still tied by contract to One-Derful. The last Admirations pressing variations on Peaches with the remade credits would then still bee the last in line. For everyone involved to try and cash in on it.

so that also would make the small typeset on the midas stuff prior to the capital letters variations.. for example your wish is my command etc.. shouldnt make any kind of difference in prices tho even tho some today maybe insane enough to actually convince people it might do

[Tlscapital]

12 minutes ago, Dave Pinch said:

so that also would make the small typeset on the midas stuff prior to the capital letters variations.. for example your wish is my command etc.. shouldnt make any kind of difference in prices tho even tho some today maybe insane enough to actually convince people it might do

As I proposed 'maybe a last consideration'... Because 'the date of any of the Peaches variations has never been established' also... just something to consider or not. But I don't get your point about prices. Sorry but what's it about ? Anyway the fact that these CAPITAL letters for the credits thing seemed very short lived could indicate a 'window frame' in time if ever if after a short while it was decided to just as it seems to have abandoned that practice.

If so that could be a date lead. As for the Midas label discography indeed it would be nice to have some factual more realistic dates as all those I see on Datcogs or 45Cat are a bit all over the places. Surely some releases must have been covered in local radio charts or have been cited as new releases in local musical press snippets. Now this allowed me to pick out the sole Midas featuring such CAPITAL credits. Before and after same fonts and typos in small FWIW.

[The Yank]

2 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

 

If so that could be a date lead. As for the Midas label discography indeed it would be nice to have some factual more realistic dates as all those I see on Datcogs or 45Cat are a bit all over the places. Surely some releases must have been covered in local radio charts or have been cited as new releases in local musical press snippets. 

 Here's a starting point. The Brothers and Sisters release( Midas #9011) is on this survey from WVON at #17-

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by The Yank

[Tlscapital]

That's pretty good to begin with so within October or November 1968. Although the later series post 9010 and 300 are more common like they had better success than their predecessors. Now the earlier releases should prove crucial some more to our case here although not many numbers are likely to have seen so much action but maybe the Lonnie Brooks 9002, the Danderliers 9004 and the Reginald Day 9005 would have had such more exposure to be found.

[Phild]

I have a few photos of The Admirations that I got back in 1998 from Ralph Childs of the group. I also got both and Admirations and Aspirations copy of the record from him, together with a couple of the Paree 45. The "heaven Is In Your Arms" side is definitely NOT The Admirations

 

I'll dig the photos out and post them up

[Chalky]

As the two topics are about a specific record and this topic is about a possible conman then maybe they can be merged so all the group information is in one topic?

Edited June 19, 2023 by Chalky

[Tlscapital]

49 minutes ago, Phild said:

I have a few photos of The Admirations that I got back in 1998 from Ralph Childs of the group. I also got both and Admirations and Aspirations copy of the record from him, together with a couple of the Paree 45. The "heaven Is In Your Arms" side is definitely NOT The Admirations

I'll dig the photos out and post them up

Very interesting. The side I don't like but I'll play it again to hear attentively. But what makes you said that ? Where you told from the 'horses mouth' or what ?

Oh yes please do.

9 minutes ago, Chalky said:

As the two topics are about a specific record and this topic is about a possible conman then maybe they can be merged so all the group information is in one topic?

Yes it's true. I will see with the moderator on here what if and maybe.

[Phild]

36 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Very interesting. The side I don't like but I'll play it again to hear attentively. But what makes you said that ? Where you told from the 'horses mouth' or what ?

Oh yes please do.

Yes it's true. I will see with the moderator on here what if and maybe.

Yes. Ralph Childs told me that "Heaven Is In Your Arms" was definitely not them. He has no idea who mit was, but not them. Someone had written "VOID" in big letters on the "Heaven...." side

[Tlscapital]

16 minutes ago, Phild said:

Yes. Ralph Childs told me that "Heaven Is In Your Arms" was definitely not them. He has no idea who mit was, but not them. Someone had written "VOID" in big letters on the "Heaven...." side

Godon Keith and Silvers Eddie were issuing the first record of the Jackson 5 shortly after that. Although the Admirations on Paree only involved Otis Hayes in connection with the One-Derful group... But still vocally it could very well be a match. Anyone's opinion on that ? 

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Tlscapital said:

Godon Keith and Silvers Eddie were issuing the first record of the Jackson 5 shortly after that. Although the Admirations on Paree only involved Otis Hayes in connection with the One-Derful group... But still vocally it could very well be a match. Anyone's opinion on that ? 

I’m away right now for ten days and cannot listen on anything decent

[The Yank]

Here's a few more reference points for the Midas label -

Reginald Day  (Midas #9005) was 1st mentioned as getting airplay on WVON in the April 29, 1967 issue of Record World.

Mississippi Joe (Midas #9010)  is listed as a WVON extra in the August 10th,1968 issue of Record World.

[Tlscapital]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

Here's a few more reference points for the Midas label -

Reginald Day  (Midas #9005) was 1st mentioned as getting airplay on WVON in the April 29, 1967 issue of Record World.

Mississippi Joe (Midas #9010)  is listed as a WVON extra in the August 10th,1968 issue of Record World.

Boom ! Instant clarification. Thanks to The Yank now and to Dave Pinch (although sceptic intervention but proven now right somehow) bringing up the Midas label we can date the Dandeliers on Midas 9004 anywhere between early up to March 1967. Meaning that these Chicago records featuring those CAPITAL credits were pressed anywhere between early 1967 up to 1968... Meaning that we can't rely on that to set a 'window frame' in time for the Peaches releases !

[Tlscapital]

2 hours ago, Chalky said:

I’m away right now for ten days and cannot listen on anything decent

Well I did that with my laptop external active speakers with subwoofer (sounds decent nuff) and listened to mp3's on thetintenet with 'heaven in your arms' that I never liked so never tried to figure out any better. Now once I actively listened to it yep it made sense. These are not the Admirations that we know. Then had to seek on YT proper cuts of the Jackson 5 first single issued in January 1968 'big boy' and  'you've changed'. There I could hear in my ear's opinion A matching possibility if ever. But I don't like one or the other so I could be partial here too. But if it is ? What Da F***...

[The Yank]

46 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Boom ! Instant clarification. Thanks to The Yank now and to Dave Pinch (although sceptic intervention but proven now right somehow) bringing up the Midas label we can date the Dandeliers on Midas 9004 anywhere between early up to March 1967. Meaning that these Chicago records featuring those CAPITAL credits were pressed anywhere between early 1967 up to 1968... Meaning that we can't rely on that to set a 'window frame' in time for the Peaches releases !

     I don't think quality control was a #1 priority for that pressing plant.  The A side is  uses capital and small letters but the B side has the title in caps in a completely different font - 

[Tlscapital]

17 minutes ago, The Yank said:

     I don't think quality control was a #1 priority for that pressing plant.  The A side is  uses capital and small letters but the B side has the title in caps in a completely different font -

Yep those typos and font used for the 'B' side here were also often used too on many beloved Chicago pressings. Likely here they were maybe missing one or two print 'blocs' of letters to complete the label and opted for another typos and font. No matter how "disgraceful" it is IMO. A "cheap" trick often seen on Jamaican pressings too FWIW...

Edited June 19, 2023 by Tlscapital

[Tlscapital]

Hopefully I might be able to provide sound samples in mp3 formats to post on here and compare vocals. But to these ears of mine it could very well be more and more. Especially on the 'B' side of 'Big Boy' titled 'you've changed' where 9 years young Michael really push his voice to keep up with a louder instrumentation than on 'Big Boy' at a slowly faster pace too. The singing there is very similar to 'heaven in your arms' and that first Jackson 5 Steeltown first single IMO. 

Adding 'troubled waters' to the quest (but helping to eliminate or keep leads) I just read this coincidental fact if ever ; the ORIGINAL recording of 'Big Boy' by the Jackson Five for One-Derful by mid-1967 that that was recorded 5-6 months prior the Steeltown release is altogether another take. And we do know of the Alvin Cash mispress of June 1967 release of 'diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks' on Mar-V-Lous playing 'heaven in your arms' by who now ? 

[Nick Soule]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

     I don't think quality control was a #1 priority for that pressing plant.  The A side is  uses capital and small letters but the B side has the title in caps in a completely different font - 

Apex Record Pressing in Chicago was the plant that did all of these records, and there are plenty of examples of them pressing records multiple times with different fonts, typos, credit positioning changes, etc. - The Creations on Zodiac is a good example; there's even a rare pressing with the label name printed as 'Zodica'. 

Is the timeline above that suggests that the Aspirations/Admirations records were pressed 6-ish months apart just a guess or information coming from a label owner or group member? I would've thought they were all pressed within a short amount of time of one another. 

[Tlscapital]

4 hours ago, Nick Soule said:

Apex Record Pressing in Chicago was the plant that did all of these records, and there are plenty of examples of them pressing records multiple times with different fonts, typos, credit positioning changes, etc. - The Creations on Zodiac is a good example; there's even a rare pressing with the label name printed as 'Zodica'. 

Is the timeline above that suggests that the Aspirations/Admirations records were pressed 6-ish months apart just a guess or information coming from a label owner or group member? I would've thought they were all pressed within a short amount of time of one another. 

Yep that could very well be. The two Aspirations releases were very close follow-ups. The Admirations on Peaches too but not necessary tha close. But indeed at this stage it's only a guessing 'in the wild' as we really don't have much else to go on... But I get your observation and believe that like you they could have been pressed in a shorter time gap.

[Tlscapital]

Back on the 'heaven in your arms' on Paree who's who singing here. Could they be the one and the same singer ?

EAR TRIAL TIME for anyone who might have something to say about a "matching possibility" if ever or not. Shoot !

A trial not of science and indeed very much subjective. I was proposed by a droping friend to submit to Chat GPT... 

 

'Heaven in your arms' (June or about 1967 as the Admirations on Paree and also as miss pressed on Alvin's Cash 'Diff'rent strokes...' on Mar-V-lous)

 

'Big Boy' (June/July (?) 1967 unissued previously and available only as part of the One-Derful! Collection subscription from Secret Stash Records.)

 

'Big Boy' (released 'A' side on Steeltown in January 1968)

 

'you've changed' (released 'B' side on Steeltown in January 1968)

 

FWIW to my ears I hear little more similarities with this last 'you've changed' as he has to put more volume in his singing and adopt a more high tone all along to pass over the loud musical arrangements like in 'heaven in your arms'. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Tlscapital

[Frankie Crocker]

FWIW the Admiration’s singer on Paree sounds very like Little Michael Jackson.... On listening to both sides of the Peaches 45, echoes of the same singer sound through. It does sound like the same lead singer on both records...doing my head in but I think you lot are on to something here!

[Tlscapital]

Agree with you. If not the same very similar at least. But the real 'A' side of the Paree 45 'my admiration for you' doesn't match young Michael IMHO. The singing unlike their 'en choeur' duo singing on their One-Derful 45's makes it impossible to compare but their Peaches 45 there provide the perfect vocal match I believe.

But overall the tune feel (being their own compositions too) for both 'my admiration for you' and 'all for you' jumps to these ears of mine. It's because I love 'all for you' ever since that I've decided one day to go and purchase the Paree 45 that before didn't manage to convince me. And now I LOVE for 'my admiration for you'.

My mind's not always right. My ears and my hearts even less. Anyway I know it can seem big but since this morning Phild's quote from Ralph Childs words saying 'heaven in your arms' is not theirs (meaning 'my admiration for you' is) is buzzing my mind and with that Secret Stash One-Derful undercover story... Chills !

Edited June 20, 2023 by Tlscapital