Sunday on Alteen

[Tlscapital]

Calling all Anoraks !

4 label variations and 3 pressing plants for this Alteen release beside the Chess issues. No "real" promotional copies although those seemingly used for promotion sometimes baring DJ handwritings, XOL and/or promo stamps and even the Alteen logo covered-up with 'Chess' are the copies as pictured top and bottom left with the AL-9631 numbering.

The copies with the HP 3001 numbering do not bare such occasional yet typical promotional WOL/stamps. Should this indicate that the 'AL' copies were first in circulation somehow ? Although maybe not. Anyhow anyone knows better and then why this numbering change from AL to HP for this Alteen 45 then back to AL for the 2 last releases on the label ?

Alteen numbers chronology indicates order of release;

Alteen AL769221 Buster Benton

Alteen AL 8624 Robert Taylor

Alteen AL3000 (8625) Drake & Ensolids

Alteen AL 8652  Drake & Ensolids

Alteen AL9631 Sunday

Alteen HP3001 Sunday

Alteen AL3002 Johnny McCall

Alteen AL3004 Supurbs

 

[Robbk]

As far as I knew (or thought I knew) the 8600-9600 number series was from their pressing plant number code, and the 3000 series was the record number.  But the printer reversed them on some issues (press runs).  Notice that the 9000 series of "Ain't Got No Problems" listed Alteen's address as 8204-8208 South Stony Island Avenue (which, incidentally, was only about 1 mile from where I and my family lived when we first moved to Chicago (South Chicago District) in 1959.  My father's store was about 2 miles the other side of where Alteen was (on Halsted St. (on The South Side).  I remember that corner of 82nd Street and Stony Island, it had a shop at 8202, another at 8204, and one at 8208.  I left for L.A. in Fall 1965, and only spent the summer in Chicago.  But, the label on the right lists only 8208 as the address.  That makes it appear that Alteen either expanded from 8208, adding 8204's adjacent building (between the 2 press runs), or started with both buildings, and dropped their lease for the other one because of rising overhead for pressing new records (2nd pressing of "Ain't Got No Problems", and, possibly also the first pressing of The Superbs' (both of which sold decently locally).  My guess is that the 3001 pressing was first, because THAT is the one I bought when it was out (during Spring Break, or the beginning of Summer of 1969).  And it was the one which must have sold more, because I've seen hundreds of that in the record stores and at the distributors, and I've seen very few of the 9600 pressing in all my years.  My guess is that they started off with the one store front, and took over the adjacent one when the former tenant's lease came up, because they had a fair amount of income coming in from sales of Drake & The En-Solids, and Sunday's first press run, and perhaps had signed The Superbs by then, and had plans to release a record by them in a few months, and , based on their talent, thought they would bring in lots of sales .  That would indicate that the 3000 series was the first release, and 9600 was several months later. 

But that is all conjecture.  It could be the exact opposite, that they started big, and had to cut down their space because their distributors weren't paying them (as was common in that industry-I learned that the hard way), and they couldn't come up with the rent for two storefront buildings. 

Your list above has 9631 first, and 3000 below it.  Do you have exact release dates for each press run? 

[Tlscapital]

42 minutes ago, Robbk said:

As far as I knew (or thought I knew) the 8600-9600 number series was from their pressing plant number code, and the 3000 series was the record number.  But the printer reversed them on some issues (press runs)... ...Your list above has 9631 first, and 3000 below it.  Do you have exact release dates for each press run? 

Thanks for all that Robb and that slice of life share bit is always a real treat. Well I did put the AL 9631first as it was the one issu that have seemingly been used for promotion. After visualizing the numbering system at first with the pressing plant codes, then coupled with a catalogue number, then solely again with a pressing plant code and finally the 3 last releases with a catalogue numbers. It seemed logic somehow. If it ever was that is.

Alteen AL769221 Buster Benton

Alteen AL8624 Robert Taylor

Alteen AL3000 (8625) Drake & Ensolids

Alteen AL8652  Drake & Ensolids

Alteen AL9631 Sunday

Alteen HP3001 Sunday

Alteen AL3002 Johnny McCall

Alteen AL3004 Supurbs

Winner W0742 (3003?) Elvin Spencer

Edited May 1, 2020 by Tlscapital

[Amsterdam Russ]

5 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

4 label variations

Make that five variations as my copy doesn't seem to correlate with your scans.

 

[Robbk]

The promotional stamps being on 9631 makes it seem that 9631 MAY have been first.  But 3000/press 8625 is a LOT closer to 8652 than 9631.  So, why would they start their movement from press code numbers (Buster Benton and Robert Taylor), and then change to a different record number series (3000), and THEN go back to 9631 (a press plant code #) almost a year later in 1969 (8625 and 8652 were 1968), and THEN press the 2nd press run going back to the new record # series? 

I find it interesting that Alteen didn't make a special DJ issue press run for 9631, as Drake and The En-Solids' 8652 had special DJ copies run with "Radio Station Copy" printed under their label name.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Robbk

[Tlscapital]

30 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Make that five variations as my copy doesn't seem to correlate with your scans.

 

Hi Russ, this is the top left one

[Amsterdam Russ]

11 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Hi Russ, this is the top left one

On your scan the words "Way above - Way out in front" sit underneath the "A" in Al-teen.

On mine, those words sit to the left of the much larger "A". Also, the fonts used on "Way above - Way out in front" are not the same.

Additionally, it could be the scans, but I suggest that on yours, "Recorded at Al-Teen Studios - Chicago" is in a different type size with the font being more compressed, ie, the character height is smaller. It also looks as if those words are in a bolder font style. But again, it could just be the scans.

Subtle, but very definitely different.

[Tlscapital]

30 minutes ago, Robbk said:

The promotional stamps being on 9631 makes it seem that 9631 MAY have been first.  But 3000/press 8625 is a LOT closer to 8652 than 9631.  So, why would they start their movement from press code numbers (Buster Benton and Robert Taylor), and then change to a different record number series (3000), and THEN go back to 9631 (a press plant code #) almost a year later in 1969 (8625 and 8652 were 1968), and THEN press the 2nd press run going back to the new record # series? 

How to make sense when there's none anyway. I know...  Now I've just point out two factors that may be relative to the a story yet unfold. With new scans and my own pilled out copy (no good images of it on the net).

On the bottom/right HP3001 press which has 'where did he came from' as the 'A' side and that's the sole copy as is and it also has the address on the label like the previous releases with the 8208 Stony Island number...

But on my copy here at the bottom the AL9631 as shown here, the number changes to 8204 ! And the 'A' side is now 'ain't got no problem' just like all other following copies. So the 'hit' side changed likely due to 'air play'.

Could it be that the HP3001 with 8208 address is first then AL9631 with 8204 second ? Then what ever. That since the following number on the label; Johnny McCall with the same label design has no address printed on.

[Tlscapital]

9 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

On your scan the words "Way above - Way out in front" sit underneath the "A" in Al-teen.

On mine, those words sit to the left of the much larger "A". Also, the fonts used on "Way above - Way out in front" are not the same.

Additionally, it could be the scans, but I suggest that on yours, "Recorded at Al-Teen Studios - Chicago" is in a different type size with the font being more compressed, ie, the character height is smaller. It also looks as if those words are in a bolder font style. But again, it could just be the scans.

Subtle, but very definitely different.

Yo ! -re right. And mentioning that so is mine then

Edited May 1, 2020 by Tlscapital

[Amsterdam Russ]

43 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Yo ! -re right. And mentioning that so is mine then

I also notice that your promo credits M. Thomas as the arranger, whereas mine gives credit to M. Thompson and J Prowell and the bottom-right scan of the four you first posted only acknowledges M. Thompson.

Confused? I am.

Beyond that, my Johnny McCall is the same as your scan, and Drake and the En-Solids appears to be the same the partial scan you posted.

[Tlscapital]

1) big 'AL' logo HP N°, 'B' side & previous address arranger M. Thompson

2) big 'AL' logo AL N°'A' side & new address arranger M. Thomas

3) big 'AL' logo AL N° 'A' side & no address arrangers M. Thompson and J. Powell 

4) small 'AL' logo AL N° 'A' side & no address arrangers M. Thompson and J. Powell 

5) small 'AL' logo HP N° 'A' side & no address arrangers M. Thompson and J. Powell 

The last 3 releases shown here are from the same pressing plant. The main differences with the others is that two last have that smaller 'AL' logo labels as Russ pointed out. And this indicates another press run of labels.

The first 2 are from other distinctive pressing plants... On Discogs (not that it says a lot but only the last 2 here are displayed as 'entries') and on popsike there's 5 pages of Sunday on Alteen... Too much. The Chess is rarer.

Could it be that the Chess promotion and sales for Sunday were deceiving some and that some more Alteen copies were repressed after the deal to try still to cash on in the record ? Johnny McCall is the big 'AL' logo...

[Tlscapital]

3 hours ago, Robbk said:

The promotional stamps being on 9631 makes it seem that 9631 MAY have been first.  But 3000/press 8625 is a LOT closer to 8652 than 9631.  So, why would they start their movement from press code numbers (Buster Benton and Robert Taylor), and then change to a different record number series (3000), and THEN go back to 9631 (a press plant code #) almost a year later in 1969 (8625 and 8652 were 1968), and THEN press the 2nd press run going back to the new record # series? 

I find it interesting that Alteen didn't make a special DJ issue press run for 9631, as Drake and The En-Solids' 8652 had special DJ copies run with "Radio Station Copy" printed under their label name.

 

It's the sole example of a 'RADIO STATION COPY' (funny enough to make me want to own one for that) for the label. The Suburbs apparently have a promo copy but I don't know for real or better...

[Amsterdam Russ]

2 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

1) big 'AL' logo HP N°, 'B' side & previous address arranger M. Thompson

2) big 'AL' logo AL N°'A' side & new address arranger M. Thomas

3) big 'AL' logo AL N° 'A' side & no address arrangers M. Thompson and J. Powell 

4) small 'AL' logo AL N° 'A' side & no address arrangers M. Thompson and J. Powell 

5) small 'AL' logo HP N° 'A' side & no address arrangers M. Thompson and J. Powell 

The last 3 releases shown here are from the same pressing plant. The main differences with the others is that two last have that smaller 'AL' logo labels as Russ pointed out. And this indicates another press run of labels.

The first 2 are from other distinctive pressing plants... On Discogs (not that it says a lot but only the last 2 here are displayed as 'entries') and on popsike there's 5 pages of Sunday on Alteen... Too much. The Chess is rarer.

Could it be that the Chess promotion and sales for Sunday were deceiving some and that some more Alteen copies were repressed after the deal to try still to cash on in the record ? Johnny McCall is the big 'AL' logo...

Well done for cataloguing the differences. That makes everything much clearer.

My thinking about the Sunday Al-teen 45 is that label owner, Bill Meeks, only pressed up a small number at a time, maybe to reduce outlay and possible wastage (in costs) of any 45s that didn't sell.

First run sells well, so he gets more pressed. That also sells out, so he does the same again. Interest grows, probably because of radio plays. Meeks seeks out a better deal for the pressing of more copies. 

If he only had a small number pressed each time, it's likely he would have had roughly an equal amount of labels printed. Each time a new batch of 45s is pressed, a new set of labels is also required. 

The first two presses show that Meeks was distributing them himself. Other presses do not indicate this. Perhaps he did a tie-in where the 45s were pressed and distributed in a single deal via a distributor. No idea if this was something that happened back then, but it would seem logical to have places that provided a one-stop-shop kind of service.

Also, the first two presses credit only one person as arranger - M. Thompson (with 'M. Thomas" simply being an error). Perhaps as record sales grew, and making a presumption that anyone involved in arranging to tunes was getting a cut of profits, J. Powell was added with the intent of making money for someone involved in the management of the label, but not necessarily actually involved in the arranging. 

While the Al-teen 45 is pretty common, there are also plenty of the Chess presses out there. The site ValueYourMusic.com - a Popsike copyist (I can't get into Popsike at the moment as I've used it too much today!) - lists 44 of them going back only as far as September 2015.

That also makes it pretty common.

Link here:

https://www.valueyourmusic.com/vinyl?q=sunday+chess&sort=date_end_asc&utf8=✓

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Amsterdam Russ
klaritee

[Tlscapital]

ValueYourMusic is not for me as it requires to disable my AdBlocker  But just from recollection, I remember seeing more Alteen copies to this day (most in bad shape) than Chess (most in good shape) and a lot of them Chess were promos even. That which with Chess indicates a lot of promotional expectation from a record. Meaning that the ratio for the Chess actual sales of the Sunday 45 should be poor in comparison I believe. 

[Amsterdam Russ]

35 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

ValueYourMusic is not for me as it requires to disable my AdBlocker  But just from recollection, I remember seeing more Alteen copies to this day (most in bad shape) than Chess (most in good shape) and a lot of them Chess were promos even. That which with Chess indicates a lot of promotional expectation from a record. Meaning that the ratio for the Chess actual sales of the Sunday 45 should be poor in comparison I believe. 

Ah, I'm also using an ad blocker but can still access that site.

The search I used to bring up the 44 Chess copies was: Sunday chess

I've just searched again using: Sunday got no problems

That brings up 173 listings (the oldest being from Sept 2015), which means there are 44 releases on Chess and 129 on Al-teen. 

That's a ratio of roughly 3:1 (Al-teen/Chess)!

 

 

 

[Tlscapital]

27 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

That's a ratio of roughly 3:1 (Al-teen/Chess)!

Yes and how many VG- and below Chess stockers compare to same and lesser conditions Alteen copies ? I mean to show how many were actually purchased, owned and played.

1:5 ?

Edited May 1, 2020 by Tlscapital

[Kenb]

very interesting, thanks TLS/Amsterdam Russ + other folks.

mine has been 'in & out' of it's sleeve a dozen times to follow this post

[Amsterdam Russ]

12 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Yes and how many VG- and below Chess stockers compare to same and lesser conditions Alteen copies ?

1:5 ?

No way to check that without clicking on each listing individually - and that's a bridge too far! 

[Amsterdam Russ]

...but I can tell you that of the 44 Chess copies on that site:

• 10 are listed as promos
• two are listed as demos

Thus 12 in total, which gives a ratio of 3.7:1 issue vs promo. Or put another way, 27.5% are promos (if my poor maths holds up and any of my calculations are correct!).

[Robbk]

3 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

It's the sole example of a 'RADIO STATION COPY' (funny enough to make me want to own one for that) for the label. The Suburbs apparently have a promo copy but I don't know for real or better...

Ha! Ha!  Alteen had a group called "The Suburbs"?  Was that from the start of the decline in prejudice, and The Black Community's finally being allowed to leave the confines of The South Side and West Side of Chicago, and move into Harvey???

Edited May 1, 2020 by Robbk

[Robbk]

3 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

1) big 'AL' logo HP N°, 'B' side & previous address arranger M. Thompson

2) big 'AL' logo AL N°'A' side & new address arranger M. Thomas

3) big 'AL' logo AL N° 'A' side & no address arrangers M. Thompson and J. Powell 

4) small 'AL' logo AL N° 'A' side & no address arrangers M. Thompson and J. Powell 

5) small 'AL' logo HP N° 'A' side & no address arrangers M. Thompson and J. Powell 

The last 3 releases shown here are from the same pressing plant. The main differences with the others is that two last have that smaller 'AL' logo labels as Russ pointed out. And this indicates another press run of labels.

The first 2 are from other distinctive pressing plants... On Discogs (not that it says a lot but only the last 2 here are displayed as 'entries') and on popsike there's 5 pages of Sunday on Alteen... Too much. The Chess is rarer.

Could it be that the Chess promotion and sales for Sunday were deceiving some and that some more Alteen copies were repressed after the deal to try still to cash on in the record ? Johnny McCall is the big 'AL' logo...

It absolutely could be.  I still remember seeing new store stockers of the Alteen showing up in stores long after I saw the first Chess pressings in some stores.  The lease agreement may have stipulated that Alteen could continue to supply Alteen's previous client stores who reorder; or it could have stipulated that Alteen could continue to sell to stores within The City of Chicago, or throughout "Chicagoland"(Cook County, Illinois, and Lake County, Indiana).

[Robbk]

51 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Ah, I'm also using an ad blocker but can still access that site.

The search I used to bring up the 44 Chess copies was: Sunday chess

I've just searched again using: Sunday got no problems

That brings up 173 listings (the oldest being from Sept 2015), which means there are 44 releases on Chess and 129 on Al-teen. 

That's a ratio of roughly 3:1 (Al-teen/Chess)!

 

 

 

I was in Chicago partly during the time of the record's run, and for parts of the year following.  I always remember seeing many, many more Alteen copies than Chess.  Alteen never stopped selling theirs, and had it pressed several times.  The Chess deal was made to get NATIONAL distribution.  But the record did nothing outside the 3-state lakefront area (Lake County, Indiana, City of Chicago and suburbs (Cook County), and greater Milwaukee), all areas Alteen could service (by car).

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, Tlscapital said:

ValueYourMusic is not for me as it requires to disable my AdBlocker  But just from recollection, I remember seeing more Alteen copies to this day (most in bad shape) than Chess (most in good shape) and a lot of them Chess were promos even. That which with Chess indicates a lot of promotional expectation from a record. Meaning that the ratio for the Chess actual sales of the Sunday 45 should be poor in comparison I believe. 

I, myself, and all my friends bought Alteen copies. I didn't get a Chess copy until I found one in a thrift store.  The record stores where I hung out always had stock of the Alteen issues, and continued re-ordering them. 

[Tlscapital]

23 minutes ago, Robbk said:

Ha! Ha!  Alteen had a group called "The Suburbs".  Was that from the start of the decline in prejudice, and The Black Community's finally being allowed to leave the confines of The South Side and West Side of Chicago, and move into Harvey???

Supurbs evidently... And THEY meant Superbs.

[Amsterdam Russ]

14 minutes ago, Robbk said:

I still remember seeing new store stockers of the Alteen showing up in stores long after I saw the first Chess pressings in some stores.  The lease agreement may have stipulated that Alteen could continue to supply Alteen's previous client stores who reorder; or it could have stipulated that Alteen could continue to sell to stores within The City of Chicago, or throughout "Chicagoland"(Cook County, Illinois, and Lake County, Indiana).

That Al-teen was allowed to continue selling it 'locally' is very much what I was thinking. That would be the most logical thing - unless, as Timmy suggested - Bill Meeks continued to press and sell it without the knowledge of Chess. That seems less plausible than the first option, to me at least.

[Robbk]

4 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

That Al-teen was allowed to continue selling it 'locally' is very much what I was thinking. That would be the most logical thing - unless, as Timmy suggested - Bill Meeks continued to press and sell it without the knowledge of Chess. That seems less plausible than the first option, to me at least.

I doubt this VERY, VERY much.  All the local stores who re-ordered from Alteen, or newly ordered from Alteen also received a large portion of their record stock from Chess' distributor.  They always wanted to have a good relationship with them, because they probably got 1/3 to 1/2 of their records from them.  I'd bet the farm that the deal with Chess allowed Alteen to continue to sell in "Chicagoland".  It was a similar situation to the Magnum/MGM deal for Charles Perry's "Move On Love".  Magnum continued to sell it in L.A., and MGM did nothing with it nationally.  Only, Chess pressed up a lot more of Sunday's than MGM did of Perry's, because they were a Soul label, who already had the market knowledge and connections, and expected it to do more than it did.

[The Yank]

It looks like the Alteen version came out in February/ March of 1969  and got some airplay on 

WNOV (whose logo looks suspiciously like WVON in Chicago)in Milwaukee. It looks like Chess 

got involved sometime in July of 1969 - 

[Robbk]

10 minutes ago, The Yank said:

It looks like the Alteen version came out in February/ March of 1969  and got some airplay on 

WNOV (whose logo looks suspiciously like WVON in Chicago)in Milwaukee. It looks like Chess 

got involved sometime in July of 1969 - 

I'm sure Meeks had been selling some to a distributor in Milwaukee to handle his Alteen issue before Chess took over, or else had his own workers drive up carloads to try to sell to store owners, just like Berry and Smokey used to do in Chicago, Toledo, Akron, South Bend, Fort Wayne and Indianapolis, with the first Tamla records.  Milwaukee is only 90 miles from The Loop (so, about 98 miles (1.5 hour drive from Alteen's office)).  Yes, The Chess Brothers owned WNOV, too.  L&P Broadcasting Corp, stood for Leonard and Phil. The DJs on WVON were also called "The Good Guys".  I knew it charted and sold well in "Chicagoland" (Cook County, Illinois, and Lake County, Indiana (eastward to Gary).  So, I would have guessed it would have also charted in Milwaukee.

[The Yank]

Sunday also got airplay in St. Louis and a Pop station in  Lansing, Michigan - 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by The Yank

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

Sunday also got airplay in St. Louis and a Pop station in  Lansing, Michigan - 

 

I knew Sunday made it to WLS.  That St. Louis KATZ survey is interesting, with DJ, "Bob B.Q.", "Boys Will Be Boys" by the Fidels making  #4, The Corner Boys, and "The Friends of Destination" doing a cover of "Going In Circles" (must have been a St. Louis local "imposter group". 

[The Yank]

28 minutes ago, Robbk said:

I knew Sunday made it to WLS.

   Do you mean WLS (Chicago)? That survey is from WILS ( Lansing, MIchigan) .

Edited May 2, 2020 by The Yank

[Robbk]

9 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

ValueYourMusic is not for me as it requires to disable my AdBlocker  But just from recollection, I remember seeing more Alteen copies to this day (most in bad shape) than Chess (most in good shape) and a lot of them Chess were promos even. That which with Chess indicates a lot of promotional expectation from a record. Meaning that the ratio for the Chess actual sales of the Sunday 45 should be poor in comparison I believe. 

This matches what I remembered watching the progress of the record in real time.  Most of the Alteen copies I saw were well-played, while the Chess copies were mostly mint.  I never saw them in people's houses.  People I knew had all bought the Alteen.  Many of the Chess copies we see now probably came from boxes that stayed in Chess' offices, or in distributors' warehouses, and never got to stores.

[Robbk]

50 minutes ago, The Yank said:

   Do you mean WLS (Chicago)? That survey is from WILS ( Lansing, MIchigan) .

Yes, I meant WLS in Chicago.  But, actually, it got some plays for at least a short time, but I don't think it charted.

[Tlscapital]

Thanks to all who did participate in this 'Anotak's' quest. This all allowed to differentiate more precisely the pressings, put them in chronological order and draw some hypothetical deductions around them.

If Bill Meeks expected his new release of Sunday on his label Alteen to get it's success with 'where did he came from' side, the enthusiast public response actually happened with the flip side 'ain't got no problems'.

In the process for a rush release swapping 'A' & 'B' sides, some information got corrupted and arranger Thompson became Thomas, the catalogue number vanished and got the pressing plant code instead.

The success of the public acclaimed 'ain't got no problems' grew even bigger and wider and so a third batch of pressing was ordered and got a distribution deal. The 2 previous pressing batches were self distributed.

The record was then eventually picked-up by Chess records. Hence the 'office' copy baring the Chess text in place of Alteen. Indicating at this stage that the success of Sunday then caught the attention of Chess records.

The Chess deal allowed Meeks to still 'locally' sell and distribute his Sunday Alteen releases. Leaving the broader national promotion and distribution to Chess records. Meeks ordered 2 more batch of Alteen presses.

This time with a slightly re-designed logo featuring a smaller 'AL' in Alteen. Likely the following release number on Alteen of the Johnny McCall used and finished the initial first label stock and new ones had to be ordered.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Tlscapital

[Robbk]

A fine job of deduction, piecing the pieces of the puzzle together.  Your scenario outline above jibes with my memory. 

The first self-distributed issue of the record only within the City of Chicago and to it's local radio stations' DJs started to get airplay in February 1969.  Soon, certainly no later than March, "Ain't Got No Problems" was being played, and records were being sold in the stores.  I returned to Chi-Town on school break in late March or early April, to hear the record on WVON, see that my cousin and some friends had it, and bought a copy, which had a catalogue number of 3001, following along after the establishment of a label catalogue number series starting with Drake and The En-Solids' 3000.  The rushing to have new press runs out resulted in the reversion back to using the pressing code. 

It also fits in with my theory that Alteen expanded to the two storefront buildings from initially having one, rather than starting with renting two, and giving one up through lack of funds. Self distributing to local stores, at first wouldn't have drained their coffers, because they were probably getting wholesale record price back in cash by selling directly to the stores.  After the record started selling big locally, Alteen would have needed extra space to store records, take on a few more workers, hire a receptionist and give her a desk, and give the office a "professional look", because they were now a viable "Record Company".  Usually, such labels started out as a husband/wife/and best friend "hobby" managed from the couple's home (the way Al-Tog started) - then, after their first record that hits sells well locally - and cash is rolling in from direct wholesale sales to record shops, they open a small office (as Al-Tog did). IF they get a regional or national hit, they get a national distribution deal, and need to look professional, so they need to expand to a larger office, sometimes even in a more prestigious location.

Looking at all these different labels allowed me to notice that legendary Chicago singer, Billy McGregor (misspelled as McGreagor)(Cousin of Detroit drummer/producer, George McGregor), was also involved in Bill Meeks' tiny label, in addition to Marshall Thompson, of The Chi-Lites, who had been a drummer before his group hit big, and was an arranger and probably participated in songwriting with the label.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Robbk

[Tlscapital]

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

Looking at all these different labels allowed me to notice that legendary Chicago singer, Billy McGregor (misspelled as McGreagor)(Cousin of the similarly-named Detroit drummer/producer), was also involved in Bill Meeks' tiny label, in addition to Marshall Thompson, of The Chi-Lites, who had been a drummer before his group hit big, and was an arranger and probably participated in songwriting with the label.

Looking closer on those red Alteen labels I noticed the same as you. Recently acquiring a record of Billy McGregor I did not know before that is now a firm favorite of mine on Palos; 'we've been in love much too long' made me more attentive to 'Mr Shy' contribution into other musical projects 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Tlscapital

[Robbk]

51 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Looking closer on those red Alteen labels I noticed the same as you. Recently acquiring a record of Billy McGregor I did not know before that is now a firm favorite of mine on Palos; 'we've been in love much too long' made me more attentive to 'Mr Shy' contribution into other musical projects 

Billy's "Mr. Shy" is one of my favourite songs.

[Tlscapital]

10 hours ago, Robbk said:

Billy's "Mr. Shy" is one of my favourite songs.

3 presses...

[Blackpoolsoul]

2 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

3 presses...

Billy had been fronting this group 

https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1P2-33057765/kings-of-rhythm-blues-6-talented-guys-from-chicago

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1996-05-19-9605190122-story.html

Edited May 3, 2020 by Blackpoolsoul

[Amsterdam Russ]

3 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

3 presses...

Four - mine's different to these three! Want to start a new thread?

[Tlscapital]

3 minutes ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

Four - mine's different to these three! Want to start a new thread?

Yes please, especially since it's one of Robb's favorite  Can I leave you the honor to start it up ? I'm most curious as to what your copy variation is...

Although it's Sunday, I only came back on the computer to have a sip of coffee before going back and do some more very dusty work in the back house.

[Amsterdam Russ]

39 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Yes please, especially since it's one of Robb's favorite  Can I leave you the honor to start it up ? I'm most curious as to what your copy variation is...

Although it's Sunday, I only came back on the computer to have a sip of coffee before going back and do some more very dusty work in the back house.

I'll be delighted to.

Thread here: 

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Amsterdam Russ
Added link