Jerry Fuller Double Life Bootleg?

[Wiggyflat]

Never had an orig of this.. Have i got one now? 

 

Double Life Side scratched in 45-1307 at 7 pm 

Scratched in PB at 5 pm

Turn side

Scratched in 45-1309 at 1 pm

PB at 11 pm

Full colour ( pic of label attached)

 

[Mick Holdsworth]

Sorry, no. It's a 70's boot (alongside Ron Holden, also with red text throughout.

Originals have title and credits in black

[Mick Holdsworth]

These are the original Demo and Issues . .

 

[Blackpoolsoul]

12 minutes ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

These are the original Demo and Issues . .

 

Do they have an MR Monarch stamp as well (Promo is Styrene , is issue as well please?)

[Mick Holdsworth]

Both are styrene.

Here's a better images that show MR on the demo Turn To Me side at about 5 o'clock . . .

 

. . . and probably on the Issue (at about 3 o'clock).

 

Cheers

Mick

 

 

[Wiggyflat]

Thanks for the quick answer ....its packed and on it way back!

[Chalky]

PB is on a fair few Soussan boots, George Blackwell, Eddie Daniels etc.  I wonder who PB actually was?

 

[Blackpoolsoul]

13 minutes ago, Chalky said:

PB is on a fair few Soussan boots, George Blackwell, Eddie Daniels etc.  I wonder who PB actually was?

 

I am sure Manship knows

[Chalky]

35 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I am sure Manship knows

don't think anyone does

 

[Garswood]

5 hours ago, Chalky said:

PB is on a fair few Soussan boots, George Blackwell, Eddie Daniels etc.  I wonder who PB actually was?

 

I’ve got the George Blackwell boot with PB on it, sure someone one told me they were done by someone from Carlisle 

[Blackpoolsoul]

6 minutes ago, Garswood said:

I’ve got the George Blackwell boot with PB on it, sure someone one told me they were done by someone from Carlisle 

PB appears on bootleg LP's out of Los Angeles so perhaps he/she moved

[Garswood]

1 minute ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

PB appears on bootleg LP's out of Los Angeles so perhaps he/she moved

Not a clue, obviously thinking of something/ someone else, might have got it from someone in Carlisle, pretty sure PB is a thread on here, gonna have a mooch

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Garswood said:

Not a clue, obviously thinking of something/ someone else, might have got it from someone in Carlisle, pretty sure PB is a thread on here, gonna have a mooch

PB is a west coast (US not UK) engineer/bootlegger as far as I lnow

[Pep]

Most likely something as simple as the RCA Indianapolis pressing plant matrix. 

Some Hall & Oates 7" releases of the mid-seventies had PB prefixes. 

Soussan's lookalike bootlegs of 75/76 were designed to fool and the plant was probably chosen as it was one of increasingly few doing vinyl pressings. 

They were all short-run (perhaps just 100). George Blackwell and the Anderson Brothers were the hardest to tell from originals. Mel Britt probably the easiest, due to a thin white band around the centre hole and (ironically) the fact it was vinyl when the originals were styrene. 

Happy collecting everyone. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Pep

[Chalky]

PB isn’t a plant matrix but initials of the engineer, many engineers had their work initialled. 
Had a discussion elsewhere and PB is probably Phil Brown, a West Coast engineer in the 70s and who apparently worked at Monarch in 1974. 

[Merve]

3 hours ago, Pep said:

Most likely something as simple as the RCA Indianapolis pressing plant matrix. 

Some Hall & Oates 7" releases of the mid-seventies had PB prefixes. 

Soussan's lookalike bootlegs of 75/76 were designed to fool and the plant was probably chosen as it was one of increasingly few doing vinyl pressings. 

They were all short-run (perhaps just 100). George Blackwell and the Anderson Brothers were the hardest to tell from originals. Mel Britt probably the easiest, due to a thin white band around the centre hole and (ironically) the fact it was vinyl when the originals were styrene. 

Happy collecting everyone. 

Weren't the Mel Britt boots & originals in styrene ?....Years ago I seem to remember comparing my original (long gone before anyone PMs !) with my mates boot with the white band - I'd have sworn both were styrene. Was a long time ago though, so my memory could be playing me up !

[Pep]

Fair enough if the consensus is they're the engineer Phil Brown's initials, although the Soussan counterfeits in question were vinyl not MR styrene - the medium of choice for Soussan's volume product in the mid-seventies. 

The Soussan counterfeit Mel Britt with the white band was vinyl, although the right colours, whereas the later volume reissue of Mel Britt was styrene, but the wrong colours... replacing the orange with yellow. 

Some excellent lookalike vinyl bootlegs emanated from the West Coast in the mid-seventies. Most arrived on our shores via the collaboration of Bob Cattaneo and John Anderson. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Pep

[Chalky]

7 minutes ago, Pep said:

Fair enough if the consensus it was the engineer Phil Brown's initials, although the Soussan counterfeits in question were vinyl not MR styrene - the medium of choice for Soussan's volume product in the mid-seventies. 

The Soussan counterfeit Mel Britt with the white band was vinyl, although the right colours, whereas the later volume reissue of Mel Britt was styrene, but the wrong colours... replacing the orange with yellow. 

Some excellent lookalike vinyl bootlegs emanated from the West Coast in the mid-seventies. Most arrived on our shores via the collaboration of Bob Cattaneo and John Anderson. 

 

 

 

Monarch also used vinyl

[Pep]

The PB counterfeits look very much like the Cattaneo ones, so best guess they were done at the same plant. 

I assume it was the studio/mastering engineer who added his initials, and he may have had his own studio/lab or Monarch had a lab where they also mastered third party product? 

Perhaps this Phil Brown had his own pressing plant? After all those famous early Led Zeppelin bootlegs also bore the PB stamp. 

 

[Sutty]

I might be stating the obvious here but the cutting engineer writes the run outs at the time of the cut into the master disc, the disc is then sent to the pressing plant where they may also add a stamper in the run out as part of the process of creating the metal stamper to identify who has pressed the record. There isn’t necessarily a cutting room in a pressing plant.

In the UK you see a lot of records with Porkys Prime Cuts (George Peckham) or Ray Staff at Trident. Neither of these cutters had any relation to a specific pressing plant, so it may well be that RB Is the cutting engineer and his masters were sent wherever the person paying for the cut asked them to be sent to to be pressed up.
cheers Sutty

[Pep]

Yes Sutty I agree, like I said in my last post, it would be the studio/mastering lab engineer who cut the lacquer who added his initials/stamp. 

Although mastering lab engineers obviously exist, every studio has one. They are arguably the most important person in the recording process. Certainly in my personal experience. Most studios in the UK had a cutting lathe in the 70s and some pressing plants offered a 1/4" to record one-stop service. 

Accordingly Phil Brown is most likely a studio engineer. Possibly a standalone-lab technician or owner. 

 

[Sebastian]

On 21/05/2020 at 23:03, Pep said:

The Soussan counterfeit Mel Britt with the white band was vinyl,  

No, it's styrene.

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 21/05/2020 at 19:19, Chalky said:

PB isn’t a plant matrix but initials of the engineer, many engineers had their work initialled. 
Had a discussion elsewhere and PB is probably Phil Brown, a West Coast engineer in the 70s and who apparently worked at Monarch in 1974. 

I'll throw this into the mix Karl

https://www.discogs.com/artist/395063-Phil-Brown

[Mick Reed]

21 hours ago, Sebastian said:

No, it's styrene.

The first ones made were  on vinyl with white outside ring and poor crude matrix stamp in runout later boots were on styrene .Hope that helps

Edited May 24, 2020 by Mick Reed

[Merve]

25 minutes ago, Mick Reed said:

The first ones made were  on vinyl with white outside ring and poor matrix stamp in runout later boots were on styrene .Hope that helps

The boot my mate had was the same as the one Sebastian has posted. He had bought it when it was booted in 76 so are you saying it was booted earlier ?

[Mick Reed]

1 hour ago, Merve said:

The boot my mate had was the same as the one Sebastian has posted. He had bought it when it was booted in 76 so are you saying it was booted earlier ?

Yip came out same time as anderson brothers, lee mitchell the economy and a few more bloody hell its a long time ago

[Sebastian]

18 hours ago, Mick Reed said:

The first ones made were  on vinyl with white outside ring and poor crude matrix stamp in runout later boots were on styrene .Hope that helps

OK, I've never seen one on vinyl. If anyone has got an image of it, please post it. 

[Pep]

On 23/05/2020 at 07:57, Sebastian said:

No, it's styrene.

Hi, 

Yes Soussan mass-bootlegged this on styrene, with some printed off centre like your photograph. Has yours got PB in the deadwax? 

I had some of the PB ones in my shop around mid 1976 and am pretty certain they were vinyl, with a very thin white border at the edge. More importantly they had the same orange coloured stripes as genuine originals, while the mass produced styrene bootlegs he did had more yellowish stripes. I had and sold hundreds of those in my shops in 76/77. 

I only had two/three of the PB ones. He only pressed perhaps 200 each of those. 

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Pep