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Frank Wilson. Do I love you. Value?

Pablorally

By Pablorally
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Speedlimit Veteran

Speedlimit

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Just to lighten the mood here's a story that you can will make you both laugh and cry about said record. When johnathan woodliffe obtained said record. He couldn't resist showing it to everyone on the coach to cleethorpes. Several people took it from its crisp white sleeve to check it over, eventually ending up on the  back seat with Rob Smith. Whom proceeded to turn it on its side and said single fell from the sleeve and rolled the full length of the coach into the foot well of the door  the look of shock and horror on everyone's face was priceless. Fortunately the said sound lived to be hammered to death. 

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Joesoap
Joesoap

IMHO its value relates to its rarity and the fact that it's collectable because it's Motown and because of its legendary status.   Quality-wise, come on... it's good but far from the best record

Pumpkinseed
Pumpkinseed

What a load of old bollocks ..........

Andy Rix
Andy Rix

Sounds like the lad has done good for himself ... as parents we aspire that our kids will get on in the world and step up beyond our dreams ... that’s what I worked for and I’m sure others did the sam

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Davenpete Long Time

Davenpete

Posted
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On 25/11/2019 at 10:23, Dobber said:

a chap that i know and and a few others on here also know him, purchased a load of jobete acetates from pete lowry in the late 80's early nineties? reportedly in that bunch was a 10 inch acetate of frank wilson,the acetate had the instrumental and 3 mixes of the tune,it also came with the sheet music and notes? he was invited onto the richard searling show to play the acetates,i didnt listen to the show so i dont know if the frank wilson was played!

i purchased a few acetates from him in the mid nineties that were defo originals...patrice holloway for the love of mike,brenda holloway lonely boy,and a jimmy ruffin and something else i cant quite remember!

if it does exist,then that is a serious item!

 

 

A lot of those were not original acetates - they were cut in the UK from tapes.

Chalky Veteran

Chalky

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Sebastian said:

Don't know if it's of any help, but here are photos from old ebay auctions of "Quality Control" stamped test pressings of:

V.I.P. 25016 - Vows - Tell Me / Buttered Popcorn - 1965/05
MOTOWN 1086 - Tammi Terrell - I Can't Believe You Love Me / Hold Me Oh My Darling - 1965/11

Frank Wilson is from 1965/12.

 

 

soul vovs VIP 25016, May 1965

soul Tammi Motown M 1086, November 1965

Are they real?  I know there was some dodgy ones about at one time?

Sebastian Veteran

Sebastian

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Are they real?  I know there was some dodgy ones about at one time?

I don't know for sure, but seems to be legit. That seller sold 6 Motown test pressings on January 28 2018:

https://gripsweat.com/search/?query=This+is+a+Rare+Motown+45+Prereleased%2C+Test+Pressing&button=&search_desc=1

 

And plenty more here, amongst them a Velvelettes "Bird In The Hand" with stamp:

https://gripsweat.com/search/?query=my pictures with proper lighting on just the right angle to show basically an exact description&page=1&sort_by=price&search_desc=1

soul velve

Edited by Sebastian
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Chalky Veteran

Chalky

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Nick Soule said:

There are definitely test pressings for the same record from different plants. Probably the easiest to find is “Never Can Say Goodbye” by the Jackson 5. The ARP vinyl pressings have a sticker on the label where handwritten info would go. The styrene pressings from Monarch have handwritten info. 

People only have to look t discogs or 45cat for various releases to see how many variations of any particular release there are.  Different plants, different mixes, all told apart by the matrix.

Brenda Holloway has 21 release, 15 of them US.  Its almost certain a test press existed at one time for every different version even if it was just one to check for flaws.  Some plants might check the first press of any batch rather than do a specific test press. 

Robbk Veteran

Robbk

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Chalky said:

Are they real?  I know there was some dodgy ones about at one time?

Those with white labels, handwritten black or blue ink, with the turquoise quality control stamp (which IS the real one) look just like most of those in The Motown Vault.  There were also a few solid yellow labels there.  I'd say these were all legitimate.  Those with other-coloured labels and no stamp, I can't say.

Frankie Crocker Veteran

Frankie Crocker

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5 hours ago, Speedlimit said:

Just to lighten the mood here's a story that you can will make you both laugh and cry about said record. When johnathan woodliffe obtained said record. He couldn't resist showing it to everyone on the coach to cleethorpes. Several people took it from its crisp white sleeve to check it over, eventually ending up on the  back seat with Rob Smith. Whom proceeded to turn it on its side and said single fell from the sleeve and rolled the full length of the coach into the foot well of the door  the look of shock and horror on everyone's face was priceless. Fortunately the said sound lived to be hammered to death. 

So, is the one that also suffered under a hot light and is now unplayable? Not had a response to my earlier question - is one of the two known copies actually unplayable? If so, the owner of the ‘Kenny Woz ‘Ere’ copy is the only person on the planet in a position to spin an original US copy. The UK release therefore becomes most acceptable for spins at Oldies Nights, Soul Nights, Weekenders in the Med., wedding receptions and funerals but NOT crappy adverts, trashy dance shows and elevators etc.

Chalky Veteran

Chalky

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Frankie Crocker said:

So, is the one that also suffered under a hot light and is now unplayable? Not had a response to my earlier question - is one of the two known copies actually unplayable? If so, the owner of the ‘Kenny Woz ‘Ere’ copy is the only person on the planet in a position to spin an original US copy. The UK release therefore becomes most acceptable for spins at Oldies Nights, Soul Nights, Weekenders in the Med., wedding receptions and funerals but NOT crappy adverts, trashy dance shows and elevators etc.

Hot light or chip shop counter?  The warped copy is Tim’s and as far as I am aware it still plays. 

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Guest Shufflin

Guest Shufflin

Posted
Posted

some very interesting inputs on this topic, learned a thing or two, I'm kind of coming to the conclusion in my own head that it is possible (but maybe not likely) that one or two additional copies could be out there

BUT (just for sake of argument) two more copies surfaced due to more mass interest in the sound (driven by Strictly, ads, Jack White or whatever) what would that do to the value of the current original 45's?

£75/25k down to £12K? or no impact at all as still dog rare?

Winsford Soul Veteran

Winsford Soul

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Shufflin said:

some very interesting inputs on this topic, learned a thing or two, I'm kind of coming to the conclusion in my own head that it is possible (but maybe not likely) that one or two additional copies could be out there

BUT (just for sake of argument) two more copies surfaced due to more mass interest in the sound (driven by Strictly, ads, Jack White or whatever) what would that do to the value of the current original 45's?

£75/25k down to £12K? or no impact at all as still dog rare?

Personally I think it would just add value to the record and it's fascinating historical story.  They knowledge on here never ceases to amaze me.  Hats off to everyone who has contributed in one way or another to this topic 

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Simon T Veteran

Simon T

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Shufflin said:

some very interesting inputs on this topic, learned a thing or two, I'm kind of coming to the conclusion in my own head that it is possible (but maybe not likely) that one or two additional copies could be out there

BUT (just for sake of argument) two more copies surfaced due to more mass interest in the sound (driven by Strictly, ads, Jack White or whatever) what would that do to the value of the current original 45's?

£75/25k down to £12K? or no impact at all as still dog rare?

Due to the phenomenon of Supply & Demand, even if all the other speculated copies of the demo and test presses turned up, i doubt the prices would come down. Also if a hundred count box of the demo or issues came to light, would anyone be likely to offer up more than one copy?

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Pk 22dj Regular

Pk 22dj

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On 25/11/2019 at 10:23, Dobber said:

a chap that i know and and a few others on here also know him, purchased a load of jobete acetates from pete lowry in the late 80's early nineties? reportedly in that bunch was a 10 inch acetate of frank wilson,the acetate had the instrumental and 3 mixes of the tune,it also came with the sheet music and notes? he was invited onto the richard searling show to play the acetates,i didnt listen to the show so i dont know if the frank wilson was played!

i purchased a few acetates from him in the mid nineties that were defo originals...patrice holloway for the love of mike,brenda holloway lonely boy,and a jimmy ruffin and something else i cant quite remember!

if it does exist,then that is a serious item!

 

 

 

On 25/11/2019 at 10:23, Dobber said:

a chap that i know and and a few others on here also know him, purchased a load of jobete acetates from pete lowry in the late 80's early nineties? reportedly in that bunch was a 10 inch acetate of frank wilson,the acetate had the instrumental and 3 mixes of the tune,it also came with the sheet music and notes? he was invited onto the richard searling show to play the acetates,i didnt listen to the show so i dont know if the frank wilson was played!

i purchased a few acetates from him in the mid nineties that were defo originals...patrice holloway for the love of mike,brenda holloway lonely boy,and a jimmy ruffin and something else i cant quite remember!

if it does exist,then that is a serious item!

 

 

I have the record he had.

soul AD346937 F8DB 4303 A547 EE07BD68C5AC

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Guest Shufflin

Guest Shufflin

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9 minutes ago, Pk 22dj said:

I have the record he had.

wow! thanks for sharing


Guest Shufflin

Guest Shufflin

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Posted

if ever the word "reject" was incorrectly applied this is it 🙂

would this be worth anything?

  • 7 months later...
Woodbutcher Veteran

Woodbutcher

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Posted

So the ex-Kenny Burrell copy has just been sold via JM to Lee Jeffries for an undisclosed   ( but apparently record breaking ) sum.  I doubt it reached more than the alleged sum that Jack White payed for the test press but who knows apart from the parties involved.

 

 

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Stevie Long Time

Stevie

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20 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

So the ex-Kenny Burrell copy has just been sold via JM to Lee Jeffries for an undisclosed   ( but apparently record breaking ) sum.  I doubt it reached more than the alleged sum that Jack White payed for the test press but who knows apart from the parties involved.

 

 

Thanks for posting :)

Winsford Soul Veteran

Winsford Soul

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Woodbutcher said:

So the ex-Kenny Burrell copy has just been sold via JM to Lee Jeffries for an undisclosed   ( but apparently record breaking ) sum.  I doubt it reached more than the alleged sum that Jack White payed for the test press but who knows apart from the parties involved.

 

 

Steve.  Hope you're safe and well mate. 

When you consider how much the so called holy grail records have doubled and trebled in recent years and Frank Wilson certainly comes into that category. The figure i have heard for the record comes as no real surprise . 

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Woodbutcher Veteran

Woodbutcher

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1 minute ago, Winsford Soul said:

Steve.  Hope you're safe and well mate. 

When you consider how much the so called holy grail records have doubled and trebled in recent years and Frank Wilson certainly comes into that category. The figure i have heard for the record comes as no real surprise . 

I hope the folks that have have continued to support his massively overpriced sales over the years get shares in the 45 ... :wicked:

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Tobytyke Regular

Tobytyke

Posted
Posted

Like a sell on clause in football where previous owners get a percentage of any future profit......could be the way forward

1 hour ago, Woodbutcher said:

I hope the folks that have have continued to support his massively overpriced sales over the years get shares in the 45 ... :wicked:

 

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Andy Rix Long Time

Andy Rix

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Sounds like the lad has done good for himself ... as parents we aspire that our kids will get on in the world and step up beyond our dreams ... that’s what I worked for and I’m sure others did the same ... so he might be a bit crazy spending that amount of money on a 45 but it is what it is ... I would not, and could not, but it doesn’t mean he should not ... 

Andy

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Mal C Veteran

Mal C

Posted
Posted (edited)

Mad, all of it.. !  one thing does nag, its reported at 'The' Worlds rarest record, I know its splitting hairs, but when it is one of possibly three Soul demo copies and a test press..  its not a singular item in that sense...

I had to say it :0)

also can somebody send this dude my latest sales list, I could be in there... 

 

Edited by Mal C
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Fish Fingers Regular

Fish Fingers

Posted
Posted

Sounds like it's in safe hands to me. 

Huge sum of money - but bought for all the right reasons. Fortunately he can afford it and sees himself as its custodian. 

The fact he has already been offered more for it from various sources.....

Winsford Soul Veteran

Winsford Soul

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Fish Fingers said:

Sounds like it's in safe hands to me. 

Huge sum of money - but bought for all the right reasons. Fortunately he can afford it and sees himself as its custodian. 

The fact he has already been offered more for it from various sources.....

As you say huge sum of money but it probably has only gone up in line with what other rare records have done ,3 or 4 times the amount that they where valued at maybe 10 - 15  years ago.  All relative. 

Good luck to Lee, 

Speedlimit Veteran

Speedlimit

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Andy Rix said:

Sounds like the lad has done good for himself ... as parents we aspire that our kids will get on in the world and step up beyond our dreams ... that’s what I worked for and I’m sure others did the same ... so he might be a bit crazy spending that amount of money on a 45 but it is what it is ... I would not, and could not, but it doesn’t mean he should not ... 

Andy

I gree with you Andy good luck to him, he obviously loves the record for me it was a great record at the time but unfortunately has been hammered to death at venues since 77.on another note does this set the precedent for the asking prices to spiral on the likes of mello souls, Lester Tipton, Eddie Parker, Don Gardner. Etc. Your average collectors are being priced out the market, by things like this. 

 

But good luck with his Investment 

Edited by Speedlimit
Merve Regular

Merve

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Speedlimit said:

I gree with you Andy good luck to him, he obviously loves the record for me it was a great record at the time but unfortunately has been hammered to death at venues since 77.on another note does this set the precedent for the asking prices to spiral on the likes of mello souls, Lester Tipton, Eddie Parker, Don Gardner. Etc. Your average collectors are being priced out the market, by things like this. 

 

But good luck with his Investment 

Possibly, but DILY has had far more exposure away from the rare soul scene than any other rare soul records & has been driven by media hype for 40 odd years. So then again it might not impact on other prices as much as we fear

 

Fish Fingers Regular

Fish Fingers

Posted
Posted

Apologies for my extremely limited knowledge on current vinyl prices (not collected for decades).... but for a lot of other collectibles (antiques, watches etc) a high profile sale like this can bring the spotlight onto the sector and raise prices generally. 

A rising tide lifts all boats as they say. 

  • Up vote 3
Woodbutcher Veteran

Woodbutcher

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Soulagogo said:

Just read in the Times newspaper. Frank Wilson sold for 100k  is this up to date news?

 

 

27 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Over heard a conversation this morning that Steve Jeffries bought it ?

Old news ... if any of you had read the thread recently that is  ..... 

Frankie Crocker Veteran

Frankie Crocker

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Soulagogo said:

Just read in the Times newspaper. Frank Wilson sold for 100k  is this up to date news?

 

I’ve just read the Times too. Who disclosed the figure of £100,000? I was under the impression that Lee was not going to disclose the amount. The article stated Lee was a record label owner - does anyone have further information on this?

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Pga1 Regular

Pga1

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Hiya, I thought it was sonic wax label.  According to a local paper ' Lee bought Frank Wilson,  got married and bought a ferrari, all in the same week.  On a personal level, I've just had a similar week.  Saw a ferrari, didn't get married and I've just been the pub and bought Frank (a pint), cheers

  • Up vote 6
Merve Regular

Merve

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Pga1 said:

Hiya, I thought it was sonic wax label.  According to a local paper ' Lee bought Frank Wilson,  got married and bought a ferrari, all in the same week.  On a personal level, I've just had a similar week.  Saw a ferrari, didn't get married and I've just been the pub and bought Frank (a pint), cheers

🤣 You live on the same planet as me then 

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