Sy Hightower

[Chris Jay]

Hi.  I have an issue copy of Sy Hightower-  I Know Your'e Leaving Me. (The issue with silver patterns) Not sure if its original or boot. It has no matrix numbers or letters in deadwax,, so im thinking that its a boot. If anyone has a legit copy can you post deadwax info so i know what to look for next time. Have looked on previous threads but haven't found anything to help me. Many thanks

[Tlscapital]

Hi Chris,

From my demo 'I know you're leaving me' side scratched-in matrix: GJS - 1002 - B    (space/gap)    L97367-X.

Cheers, Tim

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 30/09/2019 at 20:03, Chris Jay said:

Hi.  I have an issue copy of Sy Hightower-  I Know Your'e Leaving Me. (The issue with silver patterns) Not sure if its original or boot. It has no matrix numbers or letters in deadwax,, so im thinking that its a boot. If anyone has a legit copy can you post deadwax info so i know what to look for next time. Have looked on previous threads but haven't found anything to help me. Many thanks

I am confused with this one as well, some sources claim it was promo only (legit) and Boot (issue), but there are enough experts here that I am sure will help

Edited October 2, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[Tlscapital]

14 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I am confused with this one as well, some sources claim it was promo only (legit) and Boot (issue), but there are enough experts here that I am sure will help

No-no, what are those sources ? The promo is rarer and original stockers are more although only few and about.

The bootleg (even though we can expect to see anything bootlegged in a yet unforeseen coat) is black print on pink.

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, Tlscapital said:

No-no, what are those sources ? The promo is rarer and original stockers are more although only few and about.

The bootleg (even though we can expect to see anything bootlegged in a yet unforeseen coat) is black print on pink.

Don't shoot the messenger, I thought the comment was probs wrong Tim

https://www.discogs.com/Sy-Hightower-Wild-Love-I-Know-Youre-Leaving-Me/release/4370524

[Corbett80]

10 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

Hi Chris,

From my demo 'I know you're leaving me' side scratched-in matrix: GJS - 1002 - B    (space/gap)    L97367-X.

Cheers, Tim

Just had a look at my issue and think that it might be CJS not G.

also the L i think is maybe actually a small triangle? I’m also missing the X.

i also have MR stamped - or very neatly scratched in - on one side.

Maybe just slightly different between issue and promo?

anyone else have the same? Cheers!

[Tlscapital]

6 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Don't shoot the messenger, I thought the comment was probs wrong Tim

https://www.discogs.com/Sy-Hightower-Wild-Love-I-Know-Youre-Leaving-Me/release/4370524

Of course not  Reacted to that 'source' on that link you send as well.

[Tlscapital]

22 minutes ago, Corbett80 said:

Just had a look at my issue and think that it might be CJS not G.

also the L i think is maybe actually a small triangle? I’m also missing the X.

i also have MR stamped - or very neatly scratched in - on one side.

Maybe just slightly different between issue and promo?

anyone else have the same? Cheers!

CJS not GJS- you're right, MR as well I miss out on that bit and not L but a triangle for the Greek alphabet letter 'Delta'.

[Chalky]

9 hours ago, Corbett80 said:

Just had a look at my issue and think that it might be CJS not G.

also the L i think is maybe actually a small triangle? I’m also missing the X.

i also have MR stamped - or very neatly scratched in - on one side.

Maybe just slightly different between issue and promo?

anyone else have the same? Cheers!

Its a monarch press, the x will only be on one side

[Blackpoolsoul]

I sold my copy years ago, does anyone have images of the stampers please (as far as I am aware the same stampers were used as per the plain pink copy)

[Tlscapital]

2 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I sold my copy years ago, does anyone have images of the stampers please (as far as I am aware the same stampers were used as per the plain pink copy)

I can't do proper photos and even with the scan and added extra saturation to "highlight", I won't be able to do anything about it as the scratch in matrix is so 'light' not much can show I am certain.

Was the black print on pink label just a re-issue ? It is plausible as the label owner was still around some years ago and aware of the demand on the record...

[Chris Jay]

Thanks for all your replies. Looks like i had the boot as i thought. To recap.  The promos with silver pattern overlay are legit. The issue with silver pattern overlay is legit if it has CLS and MR stamp etc matrix.  These were 1975. The boot surfaced in 2000. The boot has slightly off colour label compared to labels as seen on youtube. The 'wings' of the angel on the label touch the centre hole and are not 5mm above it as on the legit copy.  The boots have no matrix marking. Boots are very good quality and sell for about £80. Original selling for around £700 so worth knowing..... Regarding the black text on pink label. Discogs reckon its the first issue with a run off 200.  If you think this is wrong please comment

[Tlscapital]

10 hours ago, Chris Jay said:

Thanks for all your replies. Looks like i had the boot as i thought. To recap.  The promos with silver pattern overlay are legit. The issue with silver pattern overlay is legit if it has CLS and MR stamp etc matrix.  These were 1975. The boot surfaced in 2000. The boot has slightly off colour label compared to labels as seen on youtube. The 'wings' of the angel on the label touch the centre hole and are not 5mm above it as on the legit copy.  The boots have no matrix marking. Boots are very good quality and sell for about £80. Original selling for around £700 so worth knowing..... Regarding the black text on pink label. Discogs reckon its the first issue with a run off 200.  If you think this is wrong please comment

Can you post a scan/photo of your actual copy ? Discogs 'comments' are public. Unless it is 'signed' by someone of authority on the matter, it's a bit like the school history books; full of made up 'tyrannies' and 'victories'.

The black text on pink being a first release could be true or not. Although many strange and 'made-up' (still making the grapevine today) stories being said on 'alternative' releases when it comes to "prized" records

Although it could be true as well. Only in this instance, I have the ex-owned copy of producer Mr. Penna himself (with 'private jokes' hand written by him on paper sleeve) and it's most logically a promo copy...

Couldn't rather this black text on pink label (making no mention of the forth coming album that never saw the light) be for instance be a second rush release due to demand after selling out the first batch ?

[Chris Jay]

Ive got a photo on my phone but how to get it on to my laptop and then to this site is beyond me at moment. Let me take advise and get back to you. 

[Tlscapital]

3 minutes ago, Chris Jay said:

Ive got a photo on my phone but how to get it on to my laptop and then to this site is beyond me at moment. Let me take advise and get back to you. 

If you're phone accesses the internet you can do it from there using the 'click here to choose files to upload' tab here below. If not, maybe your phone has a bluetooth application to transfer datas onto you computer...

[Chris Jay]

[Blackpoolsoul]

41 minutes ago, Chris Jay said:

I would absolutely love to know who did this ?

[Chris Jay]

Just had a look at discogs again and a company called French Dubplates may be responsible. Could explain why a few have been for sale on French sellers sites. I still think that the other 3 versions are ok. Can anybody post the matrix details of the black text on plain pink version.

pink ? 

[Benji]

French Dubplates isn't a company as such. It's just a Discogs list. Discogs account "dmp" created it and added Sy Hightower to it for whatever reason.

[Blackpoolsoul]

6 hours ago, Benji said:

French Dubplates isn't a company as such. It's just a Discogs list. Discogs account "dmp" created it and added Sy Hightower to it for whatever reason.

Yes, I do find that as usual everything either gets made up or lost in translation, what he meant was "carver" referred to by him as a "lathe cut"

[Blackpoolsoul]

I have found a great thread here from some time ago

 

[Tlscapital]

15 hours ago, Chris Jay said:

Thanks Chris ! Can't enlarge the picture enough but it looks like it's a 'vinyl' release and not a 'styrene' as the originals are. Is that so ? Cheers, Tim

[Chris Jay]

Hi Tim. I have now returned record to seller (in France). He advertised it on discogs as an original,with a price tag to match (500 euros, good buy if it was original) I think that it was vinyl with a stick on label. 99% sure that the one sold to me was a boot. Jury still out on black text pink label version. After all your info i think i would be able to recognise a legit copy now. Many thanks to all. Chris

[Chalky]

42 minutes ago, Chris Jay said:

Hi Tim. I have now returned record to seller (in France). He advertised it on discogs as an original,with a price tag to match (500 euros, good buy if it was original) I think that it was vinyl with a stick on label. 99% sure that the one sold to me was a boot. Jury still out on black text pink label version. After all your info i think i would be able to recognise a legit copy now. Many thanks to all. Chris

It certainly looks like a home made label, not a clean cut.

Pink label, black text with matrix is original first release.

[Blackpoolsoul]

6 hours ago, Chris Jay said:

Hi Tim. I have now returned record to seller (in France). He advertised it on discogs as an original,with a price tag to match (500 euros, good buy if it was original) I think that it was vinyl with a stick on label. 99% sure that the one sold to me was a boot. Jury still out on black text pink label version. After all your info i think i would be able to recognise a legit copy now. Many thanks to all. Chris

Chris I hope you returned it tracked and signed for  

[Tlscapital]

6 hours ago, Chris Jay said:

Hi Tim. I have now returned record to seller (in France). He advertised it on discogs as an original,with a price tag to match (500 euros, good buy if it was original) I think that it was vinyl with a stick on label. 99% sure that the one sold to me was a boot. Jury still out on black text pink label version. After all your info i think i would be able to recognise a legit copy now. Many thanks to all. Chris

Oh dear, I was hoping only to imply... but there we go they're at it again. We're gonna need to be on the look out for new crook jobs trying to ripp us off ! Sorry for you and good luck with a proper copy find. Would you happen to know if the seller knew or not that this was a bootleg ?

[Blackpoolsoul]

55 minutes ago, Tlscapital said:

Oh dear, I was hoping only to imply... but there we go they're at it again. We're gonna need to be on the look out for new crook jobs trying to ripp us off ! Sorry for you and good luck with a proper copy find. Would you happen to know if the seller knew or not that this was a bootleg ?

You will never know IMHO and I guess a number of factors. age, experience, where was it sourced from in the first place etc will solve it

After all Simon Soussan arrived in the UK with boxes of bootlegs and sold them to young lads (like me) who had no idea whatsoever what they were buying. (I am older and a bit wiser now)

Record shops in Manchester and Nottingham (other cities as well) bootlegged records and sold them in their racks for fun.

Only getting original Matrix details and asking the "right questions" before purchasing records are going to help and of course buying from a reputable dealer will plays be an advantage (but even they have been caught out in the past)

In the world there are those "always" trying to get away with making a quick "buck" and sometimes"desperate people do desperate things"

This is why this site, if used correctly is so useful and should champion spotting bootlegs and identifying originals so that the next generation, never mind this one won't get duped

[Jez Bishop]

Blimey. I wish this thread had started Oct. 2018 (not 2019) as that's when I purchased an issue from a French Discogs seller. He doesn't want to refund pointing out there's no mention of boots on Discogs for this record (which is true). Looks like a ruddy expensive lesson for me! ;(

[Tlscapital]

2 hours ago, jez bishop said:

Blimey. I wish this thread had started Oct. 2018 (not 2019) as that's when I purchased an issue from a French Discogs seller. He doesn't want to refund pointing out there's no mention of boots on Discogs for this record (which is true). Looks like a ruddy expensive lesson for me! ;(

File a complaint to both Discogs and Paypal; the seller must provide the new entry for his alternate press that is a bootleg that which Discogs does not accept in the first place. Then with Paypal as well for an having received an item that is not as described with the seller refusal to refund with exchanged messages attesting all of that. Get your money back and send that crook bastard to hell !