Celest Hardie - you're gone

[Bbrich]

Can anyone tell me when this was discovered/first played out in Uk - many thanks.

[Benji]

Blackpool mecca I understand.

[Soulvillecol]

Agree Blackpool Mecca.

[Bbrich]

presumably a few years after its (1972) release ?

[Tomangoes]

If it was the Mecca, it would have been a run of the mill play.

Made big much later.

Ed

[Winsford Soul]

39 minutes ago, Tomangoes said:

If it was the Mecca, it would have been a run of the mill play.

Made big much later.

Ed

Definitely agree Ed. Became a massive tune late 80,s early 90,s if memory serves me right. Which all to often people on here who have much better memories than I do correct me. 

Steve 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Winsford Soul

[Davetay]

24 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

Definitely agree Ed. Became a massive tune late 80,s early 90,s if memory serves me right. Which all to often people on here who have much better memories than I do correct me. 

Steve 

It did get spins at the Mecca mainly last hour, but both me and Phil Duckworth were playing it at Accy Legion before that and it was a floor filler.

It became more popular nation wide with the crossover scene years later.  

l wish l had kept back a few copies, l was selling them at two quid each, and the last couple of copies l sold at 50p each.

lan Cunliffe also had copies for sale around the same time. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by davetay
missed out a letter in Ian's name

[Kegsy]

On 28/08/2019 at 16:53, davetay said:

It did get spins at the Mecca mainly last hour, 

The tunes that were played in the last hour or two at the Mecca, have kept the "modern/crossover" part of the scene supplied for yonks. It never ceases to amaze me as to what people think are "new" discoveries, when in actual fact they were played as new releases between 72/76, many now selling for serious money too these days. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Kegsy

[Joesoap]

Mecca, as far as I know. Before my time. But I do remember it being quite cheap / easy to pick up by the mid-late 80s. Shared a flat with two others in those days. One of us got it and within about three weeks, all three of us had a copy, without any particular effort. just out of boxes at allnighters. Maybe £15-£20 then!

[Tomangoes]

I've often wondered if there was a tally somewhere of how many copies of records were pressed and how many sold.

For every record, if you get my point.

The Frank Wilson story is obviously unique in why a major label cut short a release by destroying copies.

The point is, the only way a records rareness can be estimated is by knowing the tally mentioned. 

Maybe SS could start a survey of the 1000 perceived rarest tunes, and anybody who has a copy of one or more of them, anonymously tick a box etc, and add a scan of your copy!

Ed

 

[Dylan]

17 hours ago, Tomangoes said:

I've often wondered if there was a tally somewhere of how many copies of records were pressed and how many sold.

For every record, if you get my point.

The Frank Wilson story is obviously unique in why a major label cut short a release by destroying copies.

The point is, the only way a records rareness can be estimated is by knowing the tally mentioned. 

Maybe SS could start a survey of the 1000 perceived rarest tunes, and anybody who has a copy of one or more of them, anonymously tick a box etc, and add a scan of your copy!

Ed

 

You would get so many conflicting numbers but its a great idea in principal.

 

and whats considered rare to one person would be fairly common to another.

 

i have taken a break from watching prices and records appearing for sale and so many easy to pick up 30 to 50 dollar records are now 200gbp plus.  This also adds large gaps to any detail i hsed to have.  The word rare seems to get used more as the price increases.

 

i couldnt name any new records from the last 10 years and i'm sure plenty of others could.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Dylan

[Rick Cooper]

On 28/08/2019 at 10:00, bbrich said:

Can anyone tell me when this was discovered/first played out in Uk - many thanks.

I found this letter from Bob Cattaneo  a.k.a Daly City Bob or Soul Odyssey, which is his invoice from April 1975 for some records I ordered which includes 3 copies of Celeste Hardie at 50p each.  As I ordered 3 of this but 20 Don Thomas it gives an idea how it was rated then. I don't remember it being played at the Mecca but as we left early to catch the best chippy in Blackpool before last orders we missed the famous last hour. I think Ian played it early doors at the Sale Blue Rooms but it wasn't really a major floor filler.

As others have mentioned it sold for around a couple of pounds and was one that sold slowly and lots of people had it for sale. I think the guys from the West Midlands were buying in bulk from Bob so they must have had loads of this. It's possible that Bob discovered this and bought all the remaining stock for a few cents each. 

For a few years around the early 70s Bob Cattaneo was finding some great records for the UK. He soon learnt what was wanted and raised his prices. When stuff from the 70s started getting plays he could probably buy up loads of stock from the local record labels. Apparently he was quite a character so if anyone knows more about him I'd like to know.

Of the other records on this invoice the Casanova Two was a nasty thin pressing which he vehemently denied being a bootleg , maybe he had a deal with the record label. The Johnny Baker could have been Shy Guy as I think Operator Operator was exclusive to Neil Rushton.

The postage was a whole £5.00, extortionate, being 25% of the records total, but at least he declared the records as a "gift".

Rick

[Tomangoes]

I would be happy to pay 8 or 9 times what tunes were selling at in 75....

Alas, today for some, I think you can add a nought to that..

Ed

[Davetay]

On 06/09/2019 at 22:43, Rick Cooper said:

I found this letter from Bob Cattaneo  a.k.a Daly City Bob or Soul Odyssey, which is his invoice from April 1975 for some records I ordered which includes 3 copies of Celeste Hardie at 50p each.  As I ordered 3 of this but 20 Don Thomas it gives an idea how it was rated then. I don't remember it being played at the Mecca but as we left early to catch the best chippy in Blackpool before last orders we missed the famous last hour. I think Ian played it early doors at the Sale Blue Rooms but it wasn't really a major floor filler.

As others have mentioned it sold for around a couple of pounds and was one that sold slowly and lots of people had it for sale. I think the guys from the West Midlands were buying in bulk from Bob so they must have had loads of this. It's possible that Bob discovered this and bought all the remaining stock for a few cents each. 

For a few years around the early 70s Bob Cattaneo was finding some great records for the UK. He soon learnt what was wanted and raised his prices. When stuff from the 70s started getting plays he could probably buy up loads of stock from the local record labels. Apparently he was quite a character so if anyone knows more about him I'd like to know.

Of the other records on this invoice the Casanova Two was a nasty thin pressing which he vehemently denied being a bootleg , maybe he had a deal with the record label. The Johnny Baker could have been Shy Guy as I think Operator Operator was exclusive to Neil Rushton.

The postage was a whole £5.00, extortionate, being 25% of the records total, but at least he declared the records as a "gift".

Rick

Hi Rick, trust you are well, yeah l bought loads of stuff off Bob circa 74/75. 

As for the Johnny Baker it was "Shy Guy", l got a few and sold them on, sent for some more and when they came they were pressings (he said they weren't) lol. 

Same with the Servicemen, got the cartoon  design, then the 2nd lot was the plain label. 

My best buys were, Mickie Champion when it was still covered as Jody Williams and a nice green issue of Alice Clark. (all WD's around at the time) 

 

Celest Hardie was a good seller, because it was popular at our local venue (Accy Legion) and maybe nowhere else at the time.   

Yes he was a character, known as Disco Bob, Neil Rushton and Ian Dewhirst could tell you more. 

Yours Dave.  

[Rick Cooper]

9 hours ago, davetay said:

Hi Rick, trust you are well, yeah l bought loads of stuff off Bob circa 74/75. 

As for the Johnny Baker it was "Shy Guy", l got a few and sold them on, sent for some more and when they came they were pressings (he said they weren't) lol. 

Same with the Servicemen, got the cartoon  design, then the 2nd lot was the plain label. 

My best buys were, Mickie Champion when it was still covered as Jody Williams and a nice green issue of Alice Clark. (all WD's around at the time) 

 

Celest Hardie was a good seller, because it was popular at our local venue (Accy Legion) and maybe nowhere else at the time.   

Yes he was a character, known as Disco Bob, Neil Rushton and Ian Dewhirst could tell you more. 

Yours Dave.  

Hi Dave

Fine thanks, hope you're well. Bob found me some really good stuff at first , one offs like Double Cookin' and a Carstairs when it first started getting played. 

For titles like Celeste Hardie he must have bought all the unsold stock from the record company which is why it didn't turn up in quantity later on. It sounds like if he couldn't get enough original copies from the label he got extra copies pressed up via the record company. I'm sure if he ordered 1000 copies a small label would be happy to oblige but then they cut corners on label designs and vinyl quality, the Cassanova Two copies he had were rubbish.

Rick

[Frankie Crocker]

On 30/08/2019 at 00:12, Tomangoes said:

I've often wondered if there was a tally somewhere of how many copies of records were pressed and how many sold.

For every record, if you get my point.

The Frank Wilson story is obviously unique in why a major label cut short a release by destroying copies.

The point is, the only way a records rareness can be estimated is by knowing the tally mentioned. 

Maybe SS could start a survey of the 1000 perceived rarest tunes, and anybody who has a copy of one or more of them, anonymously tick a box etc, and add a scan of your copy!

Ed

 

Good idea for a thread. Just nominate the rarest of the rare whether you have a copy or not.

The total pressed though is not easily deduced from company invoices, Popsike auction price database, old sales lists etc. Many rare records are tucked away in collections and have been for over 40 years: only a small proportion of these rarities see the light of day when the owner DJs with them.

Many of the records we chase after were only pressed in quantities of 200, 300 or 500. Press runs would be larger in major cities but much less in smaller cities and towns. Record companies found it very difficult to raise the cash to pay for large quantities to be pressed. Much depended on the success of early sales based on radio exposure that could result in another press run.

The industry standard usually involved 25 copies going into thick or thin 25 count boxes. Four of these were put into a square 100 count box. Sometimes 200 records were put into a rectangular box, especially if it was a well known group that sold thousands. A person could carry a hundred count box easily enough and split the boxes amongst the group. A couple of 25 count boxes would supply the local radio stations and one-stop shops where reps would mark X’s on the play-side. A 100 count box could have been split at a group’s concert and given away to fans, friends and family who attended. For a group that produced one record for a very local market, a press run of 300 would generate short-term interest but hardly generate the finance to fund another release. This explains why many records are are in short supply but occasionally turn up in very small numbers.