The Four Pro's.....Line Up ?

[Blackpoolsoul]

I apologise if this has been covered before and please direct me to a thread if it has.

Back in the past before the internet, I seem to recall someone telling me that the "Just Another Girl" the group were The Soul Twins (Hal and Harold Degraffenreid) "Quick Change Artist" who added 2 more to become The Four Pro's.

That may be wrong of course and they could be linked to The Professionals "That's Why I Love You" (Regge Green, Fred (Fast Freddie) Anderson, Steve Calloway & Nance (Swiggle) Connor).

Perhaps someone knows which info (if any) is correct and clarify

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[The Yank]

The lead singer was Derrick Draw, not sure about the remaining 3 Pro's.

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

The lead singer was Derrick Draw, not sure about the remaining 3 Pro's.

OOOH Don't know anything about Derrick , can you let me know please

[The Yank]

I don't know much about Derrick either. That info came from Keith Rylatt's "Groovesville USA"

and from the liner notes of "Detroit Gold Volume One" (Solid Smoke). 

[Blackpoolsoul]

48 minutes ago, The Yank said:

I don't know much about Derrick either. That info came from Keith Rylatt's "Groovesville USA"

and from the liner notes of "Detroit Gold Volume One" (Solid Smoke). 

Thanks I will speak to Keith and find out more 

[Chalky]

Soul Harmony Singles has Derrick down as the lead as well, nothing else.

[Blackpoolsoul]

On 25/08/2019 at 19:24, Chalky said:

Soul Harmony Singles has Derrick down as the lead as well, nothing else.

I have done some digging and found this which is interesting but nothing concrete

https://soulfuldetroit.com/archives/2198/1398.html?1039573444

This site seems to contradict the Four Bars assumption anyway

https://www.uncamarvy.com/4Bars/4bars.html

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[Gilly]

Not a dead end at all, try this Lawrence (Larry) Thomas, Derek (Draw) Ali, Samuel Harris and Lloyd Harris. 

[Blackpoolsoul]

5 hours ago, Gilly said:

Not a dead end at all, try this Lawrence (Larry) Thomas, Derek (Draw) Ali, Samuel Harris and Lloyd Harris. 

It's in your book mate isn't it , I sort of expected you to know....thanks. None of this guys are names I know, are you able to Kindly expand on the details please

Edited August 27, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[Gilly]

2 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

It's in your book mate isn't it , I sort of expected you to know....thanks. None of this guys are names I know, are you able to Kindly expand on the details please

No its not in my book mate, I guess it could be

[Blackpoolsoul]

14 minutes ago, Gilly said:

No its not in my book mate, I guess it could be

So do you know more about these guys ? You know that thing where 1000's have danced to it and some own it but there's nothing out there ......yet

Edited August 27, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[Gilly]

2 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

So do you know more about these guys ?

I know a little more but sometimes you have to be careful, there is always someone ready to pounce on the information and use it to their gain, next you know facts get written as if they are the bringer of the news

[Blackpoolsoul]

Just now, Gilly said:

I know a little more but sometimes you have to be careful, there is always someone ready to pounce on the information and use it to their gain, next you know facts get written as if they are the bringer of the news

Get it in your book mate, they need recognition before history is lost

[Gilly]

• I have just looked at Facebook Detroit Soul (Kevin Spittle) there is an article on his page, my information is the same but it came from another source, someone who wrote music, i didnt pinch it 

[Blackpoolsoul]

Thanks so much I can rest happy now having not known for 40 years

[Chalky]

Frank Garcia gave the info on Facebook..courtesy of Kev’s Detroit Soul

Quote

The Four Pros were my cousins by marriage: Derek (Draw) Ali, Samuel Harris and Lloyd Harris along with Larry Thomas.All attended MacKenzie High School with my wife Claudette. This also includes the original members of the vocal groups: The Fabulous Apollo's & Erik & The Vikings. Lioyd and Sam passed away several years ago, Derek is still around as far as I know, a student and professor in the Muslim community, and Larry moved to Las Vegas many years ago. I have no recent contact with Larry or Derek. That's the voice of Larry Thomas singing the lead to "Just Another Girl" in his best Otis Redding performance

 

[Gilly]

RIP Frank Garcia

[Chalky]

I’d forgotten all about this, I commented at the time in Kev Spittle’s group on FB....I also saved the photo Laurence posted

Quote

From Laurence Inkatha, From top to bottom me, Laurence Inkatha, Sam Harris, Derrick Draw & Lloyd Harris. The other three members were brothers who moved next door to me at 4223 Clements in Detroit in 1958. I was addressed as a cousin but not by blood. Their Uncle Carnell Draw had been a past member of the Contours and agreed to manage and teach us. He named us The Four Pros. because he said that is what we need to become and how we need to conduct ourselves, as professionals. Lloyd and Sam have passed away and Derrick is still living in Detroit and working as an electrical engineer doing very well and he and I are very tight. Anything else you want to know?

[Chalky]

I hope Kevin doesn’t mind, more info from Laurence

Quote

To Hitsville Dave...Yes, Johnnie Griffin introduced us to Ollie. If you look at the Four Pros picture you will see that management was G&G Productions. That was for Richard Green and Johnnie Griffin, the Pros. signed with them for management after we took 2nd place in the 1964 WCHB Talent Contest.The contest was won by The Jones Sisters. We did not have to audition for Motown because   we were all over the place with them. We did a lot of background singing sessions for Marv Johnson, Tammie Terrell and others. We could have signed but were advised not to because Berry Gordy was signing a lot of groups and just putting them on the shelf. I see you have Eric & The Vikings, they fell for that. They were our rivals in our neighborhood and were known as The Sonics. We use to battle all the time (They would lose...ask Clifford L Moore) LOL But, we had a lot of studio time with Motown and when we recorded for Ollie we did our own stuff. Ollie never got involved with our management. Our personal managers were Carnell Draw and Sonny Broadnax. They took us to Johnnie and Sonny took us to the 4 Tops. Sonny did a lot of song writing for them, Stevie Wonder & others. We were known as the Little Four Tops because of our tight harmony and because Johnnie was a Funk Brother we got called for a lot of sessions at the last minute because we could learn fast. When you hear Marv Johnson "I MISS YOU BABY" That's the Pros.

 

[Mike]

this topic has been closed by the topic starter

while members can close topics that they have started, we  do suggest/request that when closing they also post up the reason why 

that will then help avoids misunderstandings etc etc

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Mike
tidy

[Blackpoolsoul]

Sorry Mike.....Gilly and Chalky did an amazing job on informing me and others about the group and I felt that no more info was necessary as the question has been answered

9 hours ago, Mike said:

this topic has been closed by the topic starter

while members can close topics that they have started, we  do suggest/request that when closing they also post up the reason why 

that will then help avoids misunderstandings etc etc

 

 

[Blackpoolsoul]

Opened topic again as Chalky has more info

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Opened topic again as Chalky has more info

I’ve got to find it now, it was something Laurence said about backing vocals

[Chalky]

From Laurence...

Quote

it's the Four Pros. sing background on I Miss You. Here's some inside information. We sang a harmonic progression in the bridge that was a building of our voices that was magnificent. When we heard the final version our harmonies were gone. We asked Johnnie Griffin what happened to it and he said: "We had to take it out because no body would be able to sing it live but you guys." I would guess it's still on the master track.

Three acetates listed on DFTMC...

Oct-65 [acetate]; 45 (M): CBMN 2993-NH1 [alternate mix]
12-Nov-65 [acetate]; 45 (M): CBMN 3228-NH1 [alternate mix]
Nov-65 [acetate]; 45 (M): CBMN 3230-NH1 [alternate mix]

[Chalky]

Laurence about Ollie McLaughlin...

Quote

(The dogs What? LOL) OK Kev....about Ollie. The last recording session that I remember with Ollie was on a song called "Hunch'in & Crunch'in". It was at his recording studio on Livernois and Fenkell in Detroitl. That song is on my Four Pros. CD ask David if he has it and if not I do. Anyway, I remember the Funk Brothers played the track and they were recording it while we were learning the song. We had never heard it before. Our Co-Manager Johnnie Griffin (Keyboard player for The Funk Brother) was taking us through the song. Ollie was really excited because the Capitals had just gone Gold with "Cool Jerk" and Ollie was running between us and the studio talking about how this record is going to be just as big a Cool Jerk. Once the rhythm section got finished Ollie came into the room and said "We are going to record the horns and then we'll be ready for the Pros."  While we were rehearsing Sam (lead singer for the Capitals) came in. He had on a full length white Mink coat and a $900.00 Diamond ring he showed us. Sam said he had just got off a plane from California and was just stopping by to say hi, before he went home. When the horns finished The Pros. went in to lay the vocals. Derrick Draw sang the lead and we did the background. We did the background in one take and Derrick did the lead in two takes. The session was over for us and we had been there about six hours. Ollie was a lively guy with a lot of energy and enthusiasm.

Quote

Just Another Girl was recorded at United Sound Studio. Ollie did not run the mixing board at any session that we did with him, as I remember.

 

[Gilly]

4 hours ago, Chalky said:

Laurence about Ollie McLaughlin...

 

Ollie had an office within the United Sound building, Cool Jerk was one of the last things cut at Golden World

[Blackpoolsoul]

7 hours ago, Gilly said:

Ollie had an office within the United Sound building, Cool Jerk was one of the last things cut at Golden World

Ollie is now in the Michigan Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame..... story here, including some other artists we know

https://www.michiganrockandrolllegends.com/mrrl-hall-of-fame/298-ollie-mclaughlin

Edited August 29, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[Soul-slider]

Let's not forget their other 45 on Carla 'Everybody's Got Some Soul / You Can't Keep A Good Man Down'.

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, Soul-Slider said:

Let's not forget their other 45 on Carla 'Everybody's Got Some Soul / You Can't Keep A Good Man Down'.

So the writers might be Johnny Griffith, Derek Draw and Richard Green(e) ?

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul