Fidels - Try A Little On Vj

[Supercorsa]

I picked this up about 10 years ago now. Always wondered if it was a legit reissue or a boot? Wondered what the story was with it, I know the original is on Keymen.

[Guest Stuart T]

I picked this up about 10 years ago now. Always wondered if it was a legit reissue or a boot? Wondered what the story was with it, I know the original is on Keymen.

I think VJ owned the Mirwood and associated labels catalogue when this was put out? Didn't someone mention licensing this from VJ for the British legit reissue in another thread some time ago?

[Pete S]

Yes this version came out on DJM over here. Both the Veejay and DJM recordings are in stereo and lose all their power, the Jayboy 45 sounds incredible in comparison (better than the Keymen one even)

[Guest Roccia]

Was the same story for Don Thomas, wasn't it...?

Roccia

Edited December 29, 2006 by Roccia

[Chalky]

could be a legit re-issue if VJ did take over the ownership of Keyman.

[Chalky]

Vee Jay also went bankrupt in 1966....

[Guest Simon]

Yes this version came out on DJM over here. Both the Veejay and DJM recordings are in stereo and lose all their power, the Jayboy 45 sounds incredible in comparison (better than the Keymen one even)

I agree mate, the Jayboy copy is soooo powerfull!

Simon

P.S. The flip 'You never do right' is just soooo good, why don't peeps give it a spin, or do they?

[Pete S]

Was the same story for Don Thomas, wasn't it...?

Roccia

It was mate..about the same time

[Guest]

So where does NuVJ and Don Thomas (also on DJM of course) fit into the story? I've always assumed it was a 70's 'revival' of the VJ label and that The Fidels came out at that time too?

[Chalky]

maybe the record is just a boot. are we sure VJ had the rights to the mirwood keyman catalogue? what does the liner notes of the Kent cds say?

[Pete S]

maybe the record is just a boot. are we sure VJ had the rights to the mirwood keyman catalogue? what does the liner notes of the Kent cds say?

I think it was a boot, bearing in mind the source of all of the other Mirwood instrumentals

[Chalky]

I think it was a boot, bearing in mind the source of all of the other Mirwood instrumentals

thats the same source I was thinking

[Supercorsa]

One other thing, how much does an original on Keymen, go for?

Edited December 29, 2006 by Supercorsa

[Chalky]

One other thing, how much does an original go for?

seen one recently for ton, seen as high as £150

[Simon T]

I think it was a boot, bearing in mind the source of all of the other Mirwood instrumentals

Are you talking about those maroon label Don Thomas issues Pete?

[Guest Roccia]

One other thing, how much does an original on Keymen, go for?

Me mate Meni paid £100 last year for a Keymen issue (green lettering).

Edited December 29, 2006 by Roccia

[Guest]

maybe the record is just a boot. are we sure VJ had the rights to the mirwood keyman catalogue? what does the liner notes of the Kent cds say?

But VJ didnt really exist in the 70's (bust in '66) so unless NUVJ was revival of the label in the same way as Crestview (kind of) was (is there anything else on NUVJ?) the only connection has to be Randy Wood surely because the story is, as we all know, that Soussan 'aquired' the Mirwood rights from him.

DJM put a handful of 'Northern' things out..Jimmy Radcliffe, Fidels, Don Thomas, so it's easy to somehow connect the Fidels and Don Thomas 45's thru NUVJ and the Fidels on the VJ label mentioned. I think the key to the Fidels VJ release lies with the Don Thomas release.

And now I have a headache...and I will say at this point can you imagine what Ady went throught trying to work out the sleevenotes for the Kent CD's !

[Helena]

P.S. The flip 'You never do right' is just soooo good, why don't peeps give it a spin, or do they?

Totally agree! Haven't got the chance to spin it yet, but will do very soon.

[Ged Parker]

It may well be a sousan jobbie but Manship lists it in his price guide if that means anything

[Helena]

You never do right (My baby) - fi-dels - keymen

12999 refosoul

[bri pinch]

Just out of interest???????Are there any black and white demo copies of the Fidels or the Fury's on Keymen out there .

Best, Bri.

[Guest]

Not that obsessed with this kind of thing or anything but.......I've always wondered about all this

The Don Thomas DJM promo has one of the very useful little sleeves they used to do. Here's part of what it says on it....

".......Come On Train was written and recorded by Don Thomas in 1973 for a small San Francisco -based label.....

........the rights to release this single have been acquired by DJM Records via their licensing deal with Vee - Jay records, who purchased the master from its original source..."

So the is there is a release for Don Thomas on a San Francisco label before NUVJ. What is it ?

Edited December 30, 2006 by Simon White

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

OK, here's the short version of how Vee Jay, Keymen and Mirwood came to be linked....

In its dying days, Vee Jay was run by Randy Wood (not the same Randy Wood that ran Dot Records in the 1950s before selling it). After Vee Jay went belly up in 1965-66, Wood became the 'wood' in Mirwood. Worth mentioning, too, that depite having a common link in Fred Smith, Keymen was not a subsidiary of Mirwood but, rather, its successor, and a label which Randy Wood did not own.

Coincidentally, at around the same time, the 'Dot' Randy Wood started Ranwood, but let's not muddy the waters by going there...

'Our' Randy's assistant at both these labels was Betty Chiapetta. When Vee Jay/NUVJ started back up in the mid 70s, Betty was in full charge of the catalogue. Still friendly with Fred Smith, she brought Keymen into the Vee Jay family by licensing some previously-issued material from Fred, including the Fi-Dels.

Betty also came to be the owner of the Mirwood masters at some point in the 1970s ,and was involved in the sale of that label to Ace, when Ace acquired it a couple of years ago.

The Vee Jay/DJM issues of any Keymen titles are 100% legit.

Hope this all helps - happy new year, everybody!

TONE

[Guest]

Nice one Tone !

Edited December 31, 2006 by Simon White

[mischief]

Intresting all this - So whats they story with Jayboy . . How comes its a better recording than Vee Jay if Vee Jay is a legit Reissue

[45cellar]

Just out of interest???????Are there any black and white demo copies of the Fidels or the Fury's on Keymen out there .

Best, Bri.

Hi Bri

I was just wondering following your question, I can't remember seeing a Keyman Demo for any release

Someone might prove me wrong, hopefully, as the DEMO's would be nice to own

[45cellar]

OK, here's the short version of how Vee Jay, Keymen and Mirwood came to be linked....

In its dying days, Vee Jay was run by Randy Wood (not the same Randy Wood that ran Dot Records in the 1950s before selling it). After Vee Jay went belly up in 1965-66, Wood became the 'wood' in Mirwood. Worth mentioning, too, that depite having a common link in Fred Smith, Keymen was not a subsidiary of Mirwood but, rather, its successor, and a label which Randy Wood did not own.

Coincidentally, at around the same time, the 'Dot' Randy Wood started Ranwood, but let's not muddy the waters by going there...

'Our' Randy's assistant at both these labels was Betty Chiapetta. When Vee Jay/NUVJ started back up in the mid 70s, Betty was in full charge of the catalogue. Still friendly with Fred Smith, she brought Keymen into the Vee Jay family by licensing some previously-issued material from Fred, including the Fi-Dels.

Betty also came to be the owner of the Mirwood masters at some point in the 1970s ,and was involved in the sale of that label to Ace, when Ace acquired it a couple of years ago.

The Vee Jay/DJM issues of any Keymen titles are 100% legit.

Hope this all helps - happy new year, everybody!

TONE

Hi Tone

Thanks, invaluable information, brilliant

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Intresting all this - So whats they story with Jayboy . . How comes its a better recording than Vee Jay if Vee Jay is a legit Reissue

Ah but it's not a 'better recording' - the Jayboy issue is, in fact, dubbed from an original Keymen 45, like many of the other US soul releases that came out on President and Jayboy. This I know for a fact, as President were kind enough to surrender all of their Mirwood/Keymen tapes to Ace when Mirwood was acquired a couple of years ago, and Ady and I played through all the tapes to see which, if any, were actual mastertapes and which were dubs. This was a dub...

If your ears are telling you that it's a better recording, well, that's ears for you. But the only two times that this track has been issued on US vinyl from the original mastertapes are the Keymen and Vee Jay issues - of which the latter is, I agree, a far poorer mastering job than the Keymen original.

TONE

[Pete S]

Ah but it's not a 'better recording' - the Jayboy issue is, in fact, dubbed from an original Keymen 45, like many of the other US soul releases that came out on President and Jayboy. This I know for a fact, as President were kind enough to surrender all of their Mirwood/Keymen tapes to Ace when Mirwood was acquired a couple of years ago, and Ady and I played through all the tapes to see which, if any, were actual mastertapes and which were dubs. This was a dub...

If your ears are telling you that it's a better recording, well, that's ears for you. But the only two times that this track has been issued on US vinyl from the original mastertapes are the Keymen and Vee Jay issues - of which the latter is, I agree, a far poorer mastering job than the Keymen original.

TONE

Don't matter where it came from, all of the Jayboy releases sound better than the records that you say they were dubbed off (I'm not calling you a fibber by the way)...the sound leaps out of the speakers. This isn't unique, if you listen to the original Bari Track on Sound Impression, the Soul Galore release is way superior in sound quality.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Don't matter where it came from, all of the Jayboy releases sound better than the records that you say they were dubbed off (I'm not calling you a fibber by the way)...the sound leaps out of the speakers. This isn't unique, if you listen to the original Bari Track on Sound Impression, the Soul Galore release is way superior in sound quality.

You're quite right that it isn't unique - there are hundreds of Trojan (and subsidiary label) items from the early 70s that sound much better than their Jamaican counterparts, because even though they were fashioned from disc dubs, they were cut by a mastering engineer who gave them a hotter sound than Jamican pressings that came from tape. And perhaps not you, but there are a lot of people on here who would be surprised how many TMG's were dubbed from disc, and they almost always sound hotter and more exciting than their US counterparts (I'm talking 500 series here) - a particular case in point being TMG 531, the Contours' "First I look At The Purse" which is ten times the record the Gordy equivalent is....

Dunno about 'all the Jayboy releases', though - "Free For All" on Jayboy is surely mastered (rather than pressed) slightly off centre, for a start!

Happy New Year, mate!

TONE

[Guest]

Just to muddy the waters...in the seventies for Inferno I licenced "Come On Train" from NUVJ (and they threw in 100's of WDJ's for free) and "Try A Little Harder" - The Fi-Dels and "I'm Satisfied With You" - The Fury's direct from Fred Smith.

Correspondence from Fred Smith was copied on an article I did about Inferno for manifesto.

Sales for Northern singles then went to zero and the tracks never came out on Inferno singles but were on b side of the "Tainted Love"- Gloria Jones 12".

We also had deals agreed for mouth watering Arctic/Phil La/Jame Guyden eps but it wasn't worth completing them.

Neil