Bobby Kline - Ocapellos

[Wheelsville1]

When reading about Bobby Kline on the internet,some people are saying he was a member of the New Jersey doo wop group The Ocapellos and some say he wasn't.Can any one be of help on this one? Thanks Chris. 

 

[Michael V]

Bobby Kline wrote The Ocapellos' nice late (1966!) Doo-Wop minor hit 'The Stars' (General/later Checker) but was'nt a member of the group

[Wheelsville1]

3 hours ago, Michael V said:

Bobby Kline wrote The Ocapellos' nice late (1966!) Doo-Wop minor hit 'The Stars' (General/later Checker) but was'nt a member of the group

Thanks for the reply,much appreciated. I've always liked Doo Wop and I think The Stars is a great song. Chris. 

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

On ‎26‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 15:13, Wheelsville1 said:

Thanks for the reply,much appreciated. I've always liked Doo Wop and I think The Stars is a great song. Chris. 

Not sure this is true.

From an internet source....."This group evolved from two other East Orange groups called The Crowns (recorded on Snowflake Records) and The Cameos (recorded on Dean and Johnson Records). Although the Ocapellos are a black group, their lead singer, Bobby Kline, is white. He used to live up the street from me".

Seems this came from someone who knew Kline.

Andy

[Wheelsville1]

2 hours ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

Not sure this is true.

From an internet source....."This group evolved from two other East Orange groups called The Crowns (recorded on Snowflake Records) and The Cameos (recorded on Dean and Johnson Records). Although the Ocapellos are a black group, their lead singer, Bobby Kline, is white. He used to live up the street from me".

Seems this came from someone who knew Kline.

Andy

Still confusing,all the photos of the Ocapellos that I have seen show them as an all black group and yet friends of Bobby Kline say he was a member? Chris.

[Chalky]

Reading the main Doowop pages/blogs, they don’t mention Kline as a member of the Ocapellos. 

[Wheelsville1]

28 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Reading the main Doowop pages/blogs, they don’t mention Kline as a member of the Ocapellos. 

I dont think he was a member Karl,I think like Michael V said,he wrote The Stars for the Ocapellos. Chris. 

[Robbk]

9 hours ago, Wheelsville1 said:

I dont think he was a member Karl,I think like Michael V said,he wrote The Stars for the Ocapellos. Chris. 

I always heard that The Ocapellos were an all Black group.  They may have sung back-up for Kline on a record or two, but I really doubt that he was ever a member of that group, and I never heard a "white" lead on any of their recordings.  They may have sung a song that he wrote.  They may have recorded for the same label as he did, and may have been friends.  None of those connections prove that he ever was a member of their group.

[Sunnysoul]

Yes, I've read the quote above from a person who says Bobby Kline lived up the road and all that ... but ... has anyone actually got a photo of the man himself ?

The soul scene has made this mistake before ... thinking that their hero was one colour when in fact he or she was another colour ...

Just sayin' ...

[Wheelsville1]

6 hours ago, sunnysoul said:

Yes, I've read the quote above from a person who says Bobby Kline lived up the road and all that ... but ... has anyone actually got a photo of the man himself ?

The soul scene has made this mistake before ... thinking that their hero was one colour when in fact he or she was another colour ...

Just sayin' ...

Thanks for all the replys it would be nice to see a photo of Bobby Kline if there is one out there. Chris. 

[Blackpoolsoul]

21 minutes ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Thanks for all the replys it would be nice to see a photo of Bobby Kline if there is one out there. Chris. 

Am I completely wrong here or was The Bobby Kline (Kilne) pictured here on the right, the same guy that was in "The Genos" from Reading, PA

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

7 hours ago, Robbk said:

I always heard that The Ocapellos were an all Black group.  They may have sung back-up for Kline on a record or two, but I really doubt that he was ever a member of that group, and I never heard a "white" lead on any of their recordings.  They may have sung a song that he wrote.  They may have recorded for the same label as he did, and may have been friends.  None of those connections prove that he ever was a member of their group.

Rob have a listen at the flip side 'anytime' it sounds white to me.

Also, as you know band members - particularly in local bands - chopped and changed regularly so line ups changed. I wrote something recently on the Imperial Wonders and they changed line up constantly. If the guy on the internet says he was there and knew Kline, then personally I'd go with that. Also the General 45 provides a direct link to Kline. I'm not saying Kline was a constant member as the line up may alter, but there is a distinct lack of information to state that he wasn't (at some point) in my view. I've seen the group photo's (all black line up) but equally I've seen a couple of websites who refer to Kline being a member. Either way we have an  'eyewitness' who knew him and lived in the same area at the time and is clearly into his vocal group's.

Based on what I have seen and read I'll stick with he was a member......at some point.....not permanent.  

[Amsterdam Russ]

Slightly at a tangent, but it’s worth having a read about the founder of MB Records, Miriam Bienstock.

She was married to Herb Abramson who set up Atlantic Records with Ahmet Ertegun. Although the Wikipedia article describes her being “influential” in the early development and growth of Atlantic, other sources describe her as being a co-founder of the label.

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miriam_Bienstock

 

 

[Chalky]

40 minutes ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

Rob have a listen at the flip side 'anytime' it sounds white to me.

Also, as you know band members - particularly in local bands - chopped and changed regularly so line ups changed. I wrote something recently on the Imperial Wonders and they changed line up constantly. If the guy on the internet says he was there and knew Kline, then personally I'd go with that. Also the General 45 provides a direct link to Kline. I'm not saying Kline was a constant member as the line up may alter, but there is a distinct lack of information to state that he wasn't (at some point) in my view. I've seen the group photo's (all black line up) but equally I've seen a couple of websites who refer to Kline being a member. Either way we have an  'eyewitness' who knew him and lived in the same area at the time and is clearly into his vocal group's.

Based on what I have seen and read I'll stick with he was a member......at some point.....not permanent.  

Do you have some links Drew!

[Blackpoolsoul]

https://vidco.su/watch/7lu_6-rWwS4/ocapellos-the-stars-beautiful-nj-doo-wop-soul-crossover-ballad-gus-gossert-favorite.html

[Wheelsville1]

29 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

https://vidco.su/watch/7lu_6-rWwS4/ocapellos-the-stars-beautiful-nj-doo-wop-soul-crossover-ballad-gus-gossert-favorite.html

I've read that quote a few times,hence me starting this topic as to whether he was or was not a group member. Chris.

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

3 hours ago, Chalky said:

Do you have some links Drew!

This was one Chalky

https://www.last.fm/music/The+Ocapellos/+wiki

Its says nothing except Kline was a member. There was another but I'd have to dig it out as I can't find it. 

Also if you just type 'Ocapellos' into Google there's an info box on the right side of the screen

[Chalky]

Read the comments for the youtube clip below.  Someone says they went to school with Bobby Kline and that he and his brother sang with him. He also states Bobby Kline was African American.  His girlfriend or ex also comments but gives us nothing.  The comments by PJdoowop are the ones that are the most interesting  

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Chalky

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

This was one Chalky

https://www.last.fm/music/The+Ocapellos/+wiki

Its says nothing except Kline was a member. There was another but I'd have to dig it out as I can't find it. 

Also if you just type 'Ocapellos' into Google there's an info box on the right side of the screen

I’ve done the google mate, it tells us nothing practically. Wiki is notorious for false info too.  I reckon they have taken him as a member because of his credit on the disc rather than any credible source. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Chalky

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

43 minutes ago, Chalky said:

I’ve done the google mate, it tells us nothing practically. Wiki is notorious for false info too.  I reckon they have taken him as a member because of his credit on the disc rather than any credible source. 

The term "credible source" is an interesting one Chalky. We have someone writing who clearly knew the group and Bobby Kline having lived nearby him at the time. He confirms Kline was in the group (maybe just for this one recording who knows? ) and yet there are people who seem to cast doubt on this.

I would put him as being infinitely more credible than Wiki, Google, me, you or anyone else mate.

[Chalky]

2 minutes ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

The term "credible source" is an interesting one Chalky. We have someone writing who clearly knew the group and Bobby Kline having lived nearby him at the time. He confirms Kline was in the group (maybe just for this one recording who knows? ) and yet there are people who seem to cast doubt on this.

I would put him as being infinitely more credible than Wiki, Google, me, you or anyone else mate.

I was referring to the wiki page which casts him as a member.

[Chalky]

Also if you read the comments he is both black and white according to people who knew Bobby.  Maybe we have two Bobby Kline's?

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

8 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Am I completely wrong here or was The Bobby Kline (Kilne) pictured here on the right, the same guy that was in "The Genos" from Reading, PA

This source lists his surname as Palcak and "Kilne" in the middle, but this maybe a typo. Also, the other info is that he was around NJ as opposed to PA, so not sure if he is the same. But he could have moved around I guess.

[Blackpoolsoul]

5 minutes ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

This source lists his surname as Palcak and "Kilne" in the middle, but this maybe a typo. Also, the other info is that he was around NJ as opposed to PA, so not sure if he is the same. But he could have moved around I guess.

I agree, I was just attempting to "bark up some sort of tree" with the name thing and you are correct artists moved around and used name variations often, but I think when we are investigating, all options need looking at

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

27 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Also if you read the comments he is both black and white according to people who knew Bobby.  Maybe we have two Bobby Kline's?

Could be ?? If I hadn't seen the Youtube comment I would have assumed he was black based on 'say something'. However I noticed that the MB release involved Winfield Scott well known writer and producer and Horace Ott. Both guys are black but again both worked with white artists to. I noticed that Marcable Music on the label also had other releases to their name.

[Robbk]

15 hours ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

The term "credible source" is an interesting one Chalky. We have someone writing who clearly knew the group and Bobby Kline having lived nearby him at the time. He confirms Kline was in the group (maybe just for this one recording who knows? ) and yet there are people who seem to cast doubt on this.

I would put him as being infinitely more credible than Wiki, Google, me, you or anyone else mate.

Over my many years I have seen many, many people make the mistake of assuming that a group singing behind a specific lead singer in a studio recording and.or in stage performances, has that lead singer as a "member" of the group, when that singer was always a solo artist when teamed with that group.  Hearsay from someone who saw them perform. or saw records of the recording session is not confirmation that the lead singer was a group member, because that first-hand observer didn't know the specific contractual agreements (if any) that bound the group and singer together.

i'm guessing that The Ocapellos and Kline were paired for either a few shows, and/or studio recording sessions, but Kline was never an official group member, and the group also sang one or a few songs written by Kline. 

 

[Sunnysoul]

On 30/05/2019 at 02:18, Chalky said:

Read the comments for the youtube clip below.  Someone says they went to school with Bobby Kline and that he and his brother sang with him. He also states Bobby Kline was African American.  His girlfriend or ex also comments but gives us nothing.  The comments by PJdoowop are the ones that are the most interesting  

 

Taking Chalky's lead, I looked into this a little further, especially the comments on the youtube clip that the Bobby Kline in question is an African-American who lives/lived in Orange New Jersey ... and I found this fairly compelling piece on a doo-wop group called the Melo Gents whose lead vocalist was Bobby "Klein" hailing from East Orange New Jersey ... the same piece later makes reference to Bobby "Kline" ... and there is a photo of the Melo Gents who all look African-American to these eyes .... draw your own inclusions but maybe our hero was indeed a brother ... 

The Melo Gents

 

The Melo Gents (Newark NJ.)
Personnel:
Bobby Klein (Lead)
Larry Holley (Second Tenor)
Sandy Holley (Tenor)
Steve Barnhart (Bass) 
Junie green (Baritone)
Discography :
1959 - Baby Be Mine / Git Off My Back (Warner Bros. 5056)

Biography :

The Melo Gents all hailed from Orange and East Orange, New Jersey. Larry and Sandy lived on State Street East Orange, Steve Barnhart lived on Snyder St., Orange, NJ Junnie green lived on Park St., Orange, NJ and Bobby Kleine lived on Park Street as well just off of Springdale Avenue. The Group recorded "Git Off My Back" and "Baby Be Mine" written by group members Bobby Kline and Steve Barnhardt. The single was recorded by Warner Bros). The Melo Gents also recorded many other songs but they were unreleased. Their manager's name was Joe Seneca, he was in the music industry pretty much at that time but he never paid is $.10. The Melo Gents travel to Canada all over the New York in the New England states different provinces around Canada with the 5 Satins and the late Bill Baker.
 

Edited May 31, 2019 by sunnysoul

[Blackpoolsoul]

48 minutes ago, sunnysoul said:

Taking Chalky's lead, I looked into this a little further, especially the comments on the youtube clip that the Bobby Kline in question is an African-American who lives/lived in Orange New Jersey ... and I found this fairly compelling piece on a doo-wop group called the Melo Gents whose lead vocalist was Bobby "Klein" hailing from East Orange New Jersey ... the same piece later makes reference to Bobby "Kline" ... and there is a photo of the Melo Gents who all look African-American to these eyes .... draw your inclusions but maybe our hero was indeed a brother ... 

The Melo Gents

 

The Melo Gents (Newark NJ.)
Personnel:
Bobby Klein (Lead)
Larry Holley (Second Tenor)
Sandy Holley (Tenor)
Steve Barnhart (Bass) 
Junie green (Baritone)
Discography :
1959 - Baby Be Mine / Git Off My Back (Warner Bros. 5056)

Biography :

The Melo Gents all hailed from Orange and East Orange, New Jersey. Larry and Sandy lived on State Street East Orange, Steve Barnhart lived on Snyder St., Orange, NJ Junnie green lived on Park St., Orange, NJ and Bobby Kleine lived on Park Street as well just off of Springdale Avenue. The Group recorded "Git Off My Back" and "Baby Be Mine" written by group members Bobby Kline and Steve Barnhardt. The single was recorded by Warner Bros). The Melo Gents also recorded many other songs but they were unreleased. Their manager's name was Joe Seneca, he was in the music industry pretty much at that time but he never paid is $.10. The Melo Gents travel to Canada all over the New York in the New England states different provinces around Canada with the 5 Satins and the late Bill Baker.
 

Looks more likely to me, great digging  more back up here (scroll down)

https://timsawley.co.uk/50-bubbling-under/

Edited May 30, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

9 hours ago, Robbk said:

Over my many years I have seen many, many people make the mistake of assuming that a group singing behind a specific lead singer in a studio recording and.or in stage performances, has that lead singer as a "member" of the group, when that singer was always a solo artist when teamed with that group.  Hearsay from someone who saw them perform. or saw records of the recording session is not confirmation that the lead singer was a group member, because that first-hand observer didn't know the specific contractual agreements (if any) that bound the group and singer together.

i'm guessing that The Ocapellos and Kline were paired for either a few shows, and/or studio recording sessions, but Kline was never an official group member, and the group also sang one or a few songs written by Kline. 

 

Rob

I did say in a previous post that line ups changed and maybe Kline joined for one recording only, certainly not a permanent member. However that still leaves us with the conundrum of whether he is black or white and do we have two people with the same name in the same area of NJ ? The person who claims to have known him clearly states on YT that he is white, whereas the photographs tell a different story. He probably doesn't know any sort of contractual arrangement in place, but even if someone could get more detail we might get closer to an answer.

I personally think based on the photographs and the production team on the MB 45 I would go with black.

Maybe someone with a YT account can ask the guy to provide more detail ?

@Chalky is good at this sort of stuff and I'm sure could get more detail.

[Chalky]

33 minutes ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

Rob

I did say in a previous post that line ups changed and maybe Kline joined for one recording only, certainly not a permanent member. However that still leaves us with the conundrum of whether he is black or white and do we have two people with the same name in the same area of NJ ? The person who claims to have known him clearly states on YT that he is white, whereas the photographs tell a different story. He probably doesn't know any sort of contractual arrangement in place, but even if someone could get more detail we might get closer to an answer.

I personally think based on the photographs and the production team on the MB 45 I would go with black.

Maybe someone with a YT account can ask the guy to provide more detail ?

@Chalky is good at this sort of stuff and I'm sure could get more detail.

According to the youtube comments, the guy that went to school with Bobby Kline, sang with his brother and Bobby, says he was african american. That seems to be the most credible of the comments, there’s that word again  

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

According to the youtube comments, the guy that went to school with Bobby Kline, sang with his brother and Bobby, says he was african american. That seems to be the most credible of the comments, there’s that word again  

This is the quote by PJDoowop who posted on YT...

"This group evolved from two other East Orange groups called The Crowns (recorded on Snowflake Records) and The Cameos (recorded on Dean and Johnson Records). Although the Ocapellos are a black group, their lead singer, Bobby Kline, is white. He used to live up the street from me"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lu_6-rWwS4

So do we one person saying white and one black or is it the same guy on YT ?

I'm confused and my head hurts

[Chalky]

6 minutes ago, Billy Jo Jim Bob said:

This is the quote by PJDoowop who posted on YT...

"This group evolved from two other East Orange groups called The Crowns (recorded on Snowflake Records) and The Cameos (recorded on Dean and Johnson Records). Although the Ocapellos are a black group, their lead singer, Bobby Kline, is white. He used to live up the street from me"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lu_6-rWwS4

So do we one person saying white and one black or is it the same guy on YT ?

I'm confused and my head hurts

Its another guy who was at school with him and sang with him and said he was black  

He lived 6 blocks from PJdoowop according to one comment. 

[Robbk]

8 hours ago, Chalky said:

Its another guy who was at school with him and sang with him and said he was black  

He lived 6 blocks from PJdoowop according to one comment. 

So, this seems to point to there having been 2 Bobby Klines.  The different spellings point that way as well.   Apparently, that's why people seem to be confused about how his last name is spelled.  They've probably seen different references to the two different singers.  What would be an even more ironic twist (coincidence) would be that the Kline whose name appears in the writing credits for one of their songs is the OTHER Bobby Kline, who DIDN'T sing with them, while the other one did. 

[Billy Jo Jim Bob]

On ‎31‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 06:10, Robbk said:

So, this seems to point to there having been 2 Bobby Klines.  The different spellings point that way as well.   Apparently, that's why people seem to be confused about how his last name is spelled.  They've probably seen different references to the two different singers.  What would be an even more ironic twist (coincidence) would be that the Kline whose name appears in the writing credits for one of their songs is the OTHER Bobby Kline, who DIDN'T sing with them, while the other one did. 

I agree Rob I think we reach the conclusion that there are two Bobby Kline's. What confusing though is that some of PJDoowop's info seems to be correct based on some quick research.

"This group evolved from two other East Orange groups called The Crowns (recorded on Snowflake Records) and The Cameos (recorded on Dean and Johnson Records)"

He seems to have got this right. The Cameo's were Patricia, Patrick and William Coleman with Walter Jones and John Sayles. I can't find anything on the Crowns except that it was one female and three males in the group. Patrick Coleman did join the Ocapellos, but interesting the same website states the Coleman "brothers" joined the group but only one brother is mentioned in the line up.

As stated above there is a white Bobby Kline (Palcak) but he is from PA.

Whoever PJ Doo wop is it seems he is mistaken or there must be two Bobby Kline's. I don't see any other explanation.

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Billy Jo Jim Bob