Dena Barnes ... the 'other' 45

[Andy Rix]

So ... in his accompanying text for the current Dena Barnes auction 45 .....  https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/auction/soul-auction/soul-auction-ending-this-wednesday.html  John states the Inferno 45 was her second appearance on vinyl

"Dena Barnes : If You Ever Walk Out Of My Life / Who Am I ( You Ought To Know ) :Inferno: 2002 DJ (45s)

It's is hard to believe a voice of such exquisite quality, the voice of an Angel; had only two 45 releases, this is Dena's second Detroit 45 unlike her first record guided by Motown trainedGeorge Fowler some years earlier. This Northern Soul masterpiece enlisted the services of Duke Browner & Mike Terry to provide heavenly words and arrangement for Dena to craft not one, but two killer Northern Soul classics"

So I'm very familiar with the work George did at Motown and his stewardship of the 'gospel' side of things  .... his production on LaBrenda Ben 45s .. and reports that they were a married couple ... but the consensus is that he departed about '64 even though songs released later featured his name and he is listed as the producer in '67 on a Supremes track 

Simple question then ... what is this other 45  .. I've never been aware she had another release

Looking forward to learning something new

Andy

 

 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Andy Rix

[Chalky]

There was apparently two other tracks cut in the studio but I am unaware of any other 45.

Tim Ashibende might know more as he met her.  @colouredman

[Andy Rix]

Thanks Chalky

I’m aware of the other two recorded, but unreleased, tracks either via Tim or Gilly .... don’t recall we ever knew what they were but memory tells me they were cut at the same time as the Inferno 45 ... so connected to Duke Browner & Mike Terry and not George Fowler

might be easier just to ask John .... when was April’s Fool Day ?

Andy

[Dave Moore]

Andy,

When I interviewed Harry Balk he was quite adamant that Dena cut 4 tracks with Mr Browner at the same sessions. As he was paying for those sessions I guess he's a good a conduit as any?   He had no idea as to what happened to the masters or tapes though. 

Best,

Dave 

 

 

[Guest Shufflin]

never mind sorry chaps

Edited May 25, 2019 by Shufflin

[Andy Rix]

43 minutes ago, Shufflin said:

nvm

Sorry to be a bit slow !  .. I can't figure out what'nvm' means

I'm intrigued

Dave .. Harry should have taken much better care of those masters. I was in touch with him early 90s trying to work out a licensing deal but, as I recall, all of his tapes were long gone

Such a shame but a common story .. Dimitri Villard told me he'd binned all of the Jet Set tapes, never thought they'd be of interest to anybody .. heard that so many times .. heartbreaking really

Andy

 

 

[Dave Moore]

10 hours ago, Andy Rix said:

Sorry to be a bit slow !  .. I can't figure out what'nvm' means

I'm intrigued

Dave .. Harry should have taken much better care of those masters. I was in touch with him early 90s trying to work out a licensing deal but, as I recall, all of his tapes were long gone

Such a shame but a common story .. Dimitri Villard told me he'd binned all of the Jet Set tapes, never thought they'd be of interest to anybody .. heard that so many times .. heartbreaking really

Andy

 

 

Absolutely he should.  I was at Masterworks (Old Frankford Wayne) when Pete Humphries showed me the Tape Vault for PIR. It was deteriorating fast! Kenny and Leon were showing no interest for their physical legacy and Pete was flapping over it 'disappearing'.  Thankfully a few frantic phone calles to Temple University meant they were rescued the catelogue for posterity but it just goes to show that as people move on their lives, the physical aspect of the music is discarded in many cases.  

Hope you are well Pal.

Dave 

[Chalky]

12 hours ago, Andy Rix said:

Thanks Chalky

I’m aware of the other two recorded, but unreleased, tracks either via Tim or Gilly .... don’t recall we ever knew what they were but memory tells me they were cut at the same time as the Inferno 45 ... so connected to Duke Browner & Mike Terry and not George Fowler

might be easier just to ask John .... when was April’s Fool Day ?

Andy

That was my understanding, four cut two released, two lost in the vaults.

[Robbk]

On 25/05/2019 at 11:40, Andy Rix said:

So ... in his accompanying text for the current Dena Barnes auction 45 .....  https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/auction/soul-auction/soul-auction-ending-this-wednesday.html  John states the Inferno 45 was her second appearance on vinyl

"Dena Barnes : If You Ever Walk Out Of My Life / Who Am I ( You Ought To Know ) :Inferno: 2002 DJ (45s)

It's is hard to believe a voice of such exquisite quality, the voice of an Angel; had only two 45 releases, this is Dena's second Detroit 45 unlike her first record guided by Motown trained George Fowler some years earlier. This Northern Soul masterpiece enlisted the services of Duke Browner & Mike Terry to provide heavenly words and arrangement for Dena to craft not one, but two killer Northern Soul classics"

So I'm very familiar with the work George did at Motown and his stewardship of the 'gospel' side of things  .... his production on LaBrenda Ben 45s .. and reports that they were a married couple ... but the consensus is that he departed about '64 even though songs released later featured his name and he is listed as the producer in '67 on a Supremes track 

Simple question then ... what is this other 45  .. I've never been aware she had another release

Looking forward to learning something new

Andy

 

 

So, maybe George Fowler recorded 2 songs with Dena, which may have been pressed on a record, or just left in the can (which are in addition to the never released 2 extra cuts recorded by Duke Browner and Mike Terry in the same session as the 2 songs released on Inferno).  I have never heard of any George Fowler-related release in '63-'64.  So, it seems only possible that Dena had recorded either only the 4 songs recorded for Impact/Inferno, or 6 songs, 4 of which remained unreleased.  I would really love to hear all 4 of the unreleased cuts, and find out who was involved in the George Fowler produced cuts, for which label or project financier, the studio used, session players, etc.  I really like the 1962-64 Detroit sound even more than that 0f 1966.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Robbk

[Gilly]

We are not getting George Fowler mixed up with T J Fowler are we ?

[Robbk]

2 hours ago, Gilly said:

We are not getting George Fowler mixed up with T J Fowler are we ?

Might possibly be so, as Detroit's Jazz and R&B pianist, T.J. Fowler had his own record label from 1962-65, Puff Records, of which, he was the main producer.  He could well have been the one mentioned above, as having recorded Dena Barnes a few years earlier than the Harry Balk/Duke Browner/Mike Terry 1966 session.  BUT, it was Gospel organist and pianist, and producer, George Fowler, that was mentioned above as the producer who recorded Dena a few years earlier than Browner.  BUT, a few years earlier than 1966, George Fowler was working as a songwriter/producer for Motown.  I don't recall George moonlighting on his own non-Motown productions at that time, like Joe Hunter.  I don't know if George Fowler had an exclusive producer/songwriter contract with Motown, after Divinity closed down in 1963. 

I never saw any tapes or acetates/demos of any Dena Barnes recordings in The Motown Vault, nor any reference to any such recordings.  Neither have I heard of any from any other source.  I would LOVE to find out that Dena recorded 2 cuts for Motown in 1964, with Funk Brothers' backing tracks.  But, somehow, I think it is more likely that T.J. Fowler recorded her for Puff Records.  Has anyone ever heard of Puff Records' master tapes being found?  If they have been, why have we not heard those 2 Dena Barnes cuts?  Someone should ask John where he got the information that Dena was recorded a few years before by George Fowler, and if the recordings still exist.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Robbk

[Robbk]

On 26/05/2019 at 01:57, Chalky said:

That was my understanding, four cut two released, two lost in the vaults.

Are you referring to the two Balk/Browner unreleased cuts being "lost in the vaults", or the Fowler-produced cuts being lost?

[Chalky]

8 hours ago, Robbk said:

Are you referring to the two Balk/Browner unreleased cuts being "lost in the vaults", or the Fowler-produced cuts being lost?

I’d not heard of any other unreleased just the session with Balk/Browner. 

[Robbk]

21 minutes ago, Chalky said:

I’d not heard of any other unreleased just the session with Balk/Browner. 

Are you saying that you KNOW that Dena Barnes had a released record produced by George Fowler on another label a few years before her Inferno record?

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Robbk said:

Are you saying that you KNOW that Dena Barnes had a released record produced by George Fowler on another label a few years before her Inferno record?

No

[Robbk]

Again, I state:  Someone should ask John where he got the information that Dena was recorded a few years before by George Fowler, and if the recordings still exist.

[Andy Rix]

So John has listed a Dena Barnes and supplied this information which answers the question I originally posed ...

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/dena-barnes-if-you-ever-walk-out-of-my-life-who-am-i-you-ought-to-know-inferno-2002-dj.html

"It's hard to believe a voice of such exquisite quality, the voice of an Angel; had only two 45 releases, this is Dena's second Detroit 45 unlike her first record guided by Motown trained George Fowler some years earlier credited to Rose Morris on Puff Records."

I've listened to the YT post and sort of hear her when she was obviously a few years younger ... does anybody know the provenance of the information .. I'm just intrigued to know who 'knew'

Andy

 

[Dave Pinch]

10 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

So John has listed a Dena Barnes and supplied this information which answers the question I originally posed ...

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/dena-barnes-if-you-ever-walk-out-of-my-life-who-am-i-you-ought-to-know-inferno-2002-dj.html

"It's hard to believe a voice of such exquisite quality, the voice of an Angel; had only two 45 releases, this is Dena's second Detroit 45 unlike her first record guided by Motown trained George Fowler some years earlier credited to Rose Morris on Puff Records."

I've listened to the YT post and sort of hear her when she was obviously a few years younger ... does anybody know the provenance of the information .. I'm just intrigued to know who 'knew'

Andy

 

i think it definitely sounds like her in places for sure andy

[Premium Stuff]

I knew this just from visiting John a good few years ago now when he played the me Puff record and we discussed that it could be Dena Barnes' first recording - and we spoke about such discussions with other collectors.

John's previous auctions have referred to the first Dena Barnes record.

The Puff record is not that easy to find.

Cheers

R