Marice Williams.AGAIN

[Davlee]

There is a copy of 'Being without you' on ebay. Seller seems positive its original..!!

13 people watching ..Any thoughts

Is seller on here.?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Maurice-Williams-Being-Without-You-Deesu-Original-Rare-Northern-Soul/123697559376?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[Mick Holdsworth]

Don't know about the seller, but the record is real. Hard to tell from the first image, but the Nashville Matrix is clearly shown on the third image, as is the Gold tint to the text.

Actually, as Chalky pointed out, the Nashville Matrix looks wrong on closer inspection. It's also in the wrong place relative to the runout, so I'm not so sure now.

Cheers
Mick

Edited May 3, 2019 by Mick Holdsworth
My first line nonsense

[Davlee]

I couldn't see the Gold Tint on my monitor..then its a good one.

[Chalky]

Not very often you see a Nashville matrix that clearly, looks scratched in too and not in a straight line

Edited May 2, 2019 by Chalky

[Strider]

Looks real to me

[Mick Holdsworth]

32 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Not very often you see a Nashville matrix that clearly, looks scratched in too and not in a straight line

Hmm, as you pointed out, the Nashville Matrix does looks wrong on closer inspection. It's also in the wrong place relative to the runout, so I'm not so sure now.

[Blackpoolsoul]

33 minutes ago, Chalky said:

Not very often you see a Nashville matrix that clearly, looks scratched in too and not in a straight line

I think there has been a history of people using a compass to scratch these in (like we did at school with tattoos on our arms  )

I am worried that this may happen more and more (you don't need technology for it)

 

[Strider]

Now doubt in mind so got to go home and check mine

[Bo Diddley]

The text looks silver not gold - not promising, although very often the picture of this label doesn't show well

The Nashville Matrix on mine is in much finer/smaller script and less bold - not promising, although it may just be a deeper impression

The "Nashville" in the matrix appears to be spelled a single "L" and not double "L". - not promising, although my eyes are crap

In summary, I'd have to say....not promising! (although I know nothing).

In fairness, the seller's other records all look good so I'm not sure they are trying to mislead anyone.

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by bo diddley

[Blackpoolsoul]

This one that sold sometime ago

https://www.rootsvinylguide.com/ebay_items/true-nashville-matrix-orig-rare-maurice-williams-being-deesu-northen-soul

Edited May 3, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul
typo

[Ian Parker]

That Nashville Matrix looks worse than my Susan Coleman bootleg 

[Davlee]

Seller has confirmed text is silver and will check out Nashville matrix stamp more closely

[Benji]

That Nashville stamp is 100% fake. Original stamp is very faint. And smaller. And looks completely different.

Original Nashville stamp here

[Frankie Crocker]

The Nashville run-out stamp at first sight appears to read Mains on the genuine record. You really have to look hard at it before allowing it could read Matrix.

In the case of the record under consideration, the word Matrix is etched so clearly, there is a possibility it has been scratched in by hand.

[Colnago]

It looks like the Nashville has  been scratched in by a cat lol 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Colnago

[Soulstu]

22 hours ago, davlee said:

Seller has confirmed text is silver and will check out Nashville matrix stamp more closely

In that case deffo not an original? Originals green and gold, 70s boots green and silver, and maroon and gold if i'm not mistaken...

[Benji]

21 hours ago, Frankie Crocker said:

The Nashville run-out stamp at first sight appears to read Mains on the genuine record.

https://www.anorakscorner.com/PressingPlantInfo.html

Matrix Of Nashville - Nashville

Based at 457 Chestnut Street, next door to Southern Plasctics (later URP) at #453. this company made metal parts for the local pressing plants - their work bears the stamped in italic, "Nashville Matrix" wording, sometimes confused as saying "Nashville Mains", due to a worn out stamper.

[Mick Boyle]

[Mick Boyle]

Silver text is enough to say stay clear

[Blackpoolsoul]

Previous sale image

Edited May 4, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul
notes

[Davlee]

Seller has withdrawn the record for the moment. In order to have an expert take a closer look.

[Mellorful]

That looks real to me, the fine etching in a relatively tidy state could only be done with a compass needle with great difficulty, if the other side stamped matrix is similar then you know its real because it would be near impossible to etch one each side almost identical  

 

[Chalky]

It looks like the boot to me. Silver text, fake stamp etched in. I’ve never seen one that clear. Nor does it go in a straight line. I don’t see any hint of gold in the text. Can’t say for certain with photos etc but I personally wouldn’t bid. 

Edited May 4, 2019 by Chalky

[Blackpoolsoul]

I bet as per the name of this forum. loads of people will be checking their boxes of tunes now

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, mellorful said:

That looks real to me, the fine etching in a relatively tidy state could only be done with a compass needle with great difficulty, if the other side stamped matrix is similar then you know its real because it would be near impossible to etch one each side almost identical  

 

It may well be real but it looks dodgy to me.  Someone may have etched over the original stamp to, someone may have scratched it in to fool some unsuspecting bidder, who knows.

[Mellorful]

On mine the nashville stamp is on both sides so what does the other side look like.

You are right some dumpty could go over the original stamp with a compass needle and mess it up but did they do it on both sides and what does the stamp look like on other side? 

It could have removed all doubt without further stress

 

[Mellorful]

1 hour ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

I bet as per the name of this forum. loads of people will be checking their boxes of tunes now

I did and realised its identical stamp on both sides

 

[Down Under Soul]

11 hours ago, Chalky said:

It may well be real but it looks dodgy to me.  Someone may have etched over the original stamp to, someone may have scratched it in to fool some unsuspecting bidder, who knows.

It does look dodgy though. Misaligned and too rough. As previously stated, it should be not deeply scratched in and be aligned to the run out grooves

 

[Ian Parker]

The stamp is exactly that,a machine  ‘stamp’ , not scratched in , like the photo 

[Mellorful]

22 minutes ago, Down Under Soul said:

It does look dodgy though. Misaligned and too rough. As previously stated, it should be not deeply scratched in and be aligned to the run out grooves

 

I was thinking some dumpty went over the original stamp with a pin or such, that is why I asked about the stamp on the other side

 

[Sebastian]

The Nashville Matrix stamp on the record on eBay is definitely faked.

It's not placed where it's supposed to be.

It should sit BETWEEN two grooves in the run-out.

 

"Being Without You" side stamp on the ORIGINAL looks like:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Baby, Baby" side stamp on the ORIGINAL looks like:

Edited May 6, 2019 by Sebastian

[Dave Pinch]

100% bootleg..silver text.. the grooves look a lot lighter  and the deadwax smaller than the original........... very dodgy stamp

Edited May 6, 2019 by Dave Pinch

[Mellorful]

8 hours ago, Dave Pinch said:

100% bootleg..silver text.. the grooves look a lot lighter  and the deadwax smaller than the original........... very dodgy stamp

I have no vested interest in the outcome, but it looks gold text to me on the pictures but lighting and angle can pale the picture colour. The etch/stamp looks very fine and identical both sides. If it is counterfeit the counterfeiter will have needed exceptional skills to produce the stamp/etch look identical on both sides and given the cost of the record it would hardly be worth their time counterfeiting one record. I expect when the expert handles the record and examines it he or she will confirm it as original.   But I have been conned before.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by mellorful

[Chalky]

22 minutes ago, mellorful said:

I have no vested interest in the outcome, but it looks gold text to me on the pictures but lighting and angle can pale the picture colour. The etch/stamp looks very fine and identical both sides. If it is counterfeit the counterfeiter will have needed exceptional skills to produce the stamp/etch look identical on both sides and given the cost of the record it would hardly be worth their time counterfeiting one record. I expect when the expert handles the record and examines it he or she will confirm it as original.   But I have been conned before.

 

 

They don't look identical, just one L in Nashville for one.  The text looks silver to me.

[Dave Pinch]

56 minutes ago, mellorful said:

I have no vested interest in the outcome, but it looks gold text to me on the pictures but lighting and angle can pale the picture colour. The etch/stamp looks very fine and identical both sides. If it is counterfeit the counterfeiter will have needed exceptional skills to produce the stamp/etch look identical on both sides and given the cost of the record it would hardly be worth their time counterfeiting one record. I expect when the expert handles the record and examines it he or she will confirm it as original.   But I have been conned before.

 

 

just lookin at the lighter shade of vinyl and the size of the deadwax tells me all i need to know ..without even looking at text  colour and ` dodgy` stamp

[Davlee]

Seller confirmed Text is Silver...

only a skilled engraver would be able to replicate the typeface style, not a bad effort but it does look scratched in rather than machine stamped.

[Mellorful]

1 hour ago, Chalky said:

They don't look identical, just one L in Nashville for one.  The text looks silver to me.

I think that might be the light on the picture. But if they look very similar they probably will be original unless someone created a stamp with two L's and a stamp with one L. Hoping we get to find out the outcome. 

 

[Blackpoolsoul]

I still think it's one of these

[Sebastian]

15 hours ago, mellorful said:

I have no vested interest in the outcome, but it looks gold text to me on the pictures but lighting and angle can pale the picture colour. The etch/stamp looks very fine and identical both sides. If it is counterfeit the counterfeiter will have needed exceptional skills to produce the stamp/etch look identical on both sides and given the cost of the record it would hardly be worth their time counterfeiting one record. I expect when the expert handles the record and examines it he or she will confirm it as original.   But I have been conned before.

 

 

 

See my previous post above. The faked "Nashville Matrix" on the ebay copy is placed in the wrong postion. It should be placed between two grooves in the run-out.

[Chalky]

17 hours ago, mellorful said:

I think that might be the light on the picture. But if they look very similar they probably will be original unless someone created a stamp with two L's and a stamp with one L. Hoping we get to find out the outcome. 

 

To my eyes the one on the ebay sale is completely different to the one Sebastian posted. Seb’s is nice and clear, more importantly where it should be.  Aside from the stamp it has silver text

Edited May 7, 2019 by Chalky