Hide nor Hair - Big or Small

[Zoomsoulblue]

While having a sort out I came across theses two

One large print with a drill hole / one small print without - 

Large Print

id - stamped 45118120     4

if the stamp is at 12 o'clock theirs a 2 stamp at 7 o'clock

Small print

id - stamped 45118120     1

if the stamp is at 12 o'clock theirs a 1 stamp at 7 o'clock

Am sure the record gurus will jump in as to why ?? - just curious - ta

[John Reed]

There are examples of both text layouts which have the 4 leaf clover at the end of the matrix on the other side which were pressed at the Gloversville pressing plant, with the matrix number generally ending with a "1".

[Guest]

2 different pressing plants. Brunswick records are the same. Usually most releases are available with a Big and Small print label variation!

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Guest

[Zoomsoulblue]

Thanks guys appreciate the time for explanation - all good

[Hammie]

Always thought that the big print Decca records were the first run issues and the small print were later re-run originals ?

[Robbk]

37 minutes ago, hammie said:

Always thought that the big print Decca records were the first run issues and the small print were later re-run originals ?

They were different label designs used by different plants, sometimes at the same time (e.g. there was some overlap but not completely).  Yes, sometimes the difference was also because of a later pressing, but only when the plant used both designs, one first, and then the 2nd.  How do I know this - it is because I saw both designs within a month or two of the record being released in different regions (when traveling from L.A. to Chicago or vice versa in the mid 1960s when I lived in Chicago but attended university in Los Angeles (returning to Chicago in fall ( Thanksgiving) break, Winter (Christmas). spring (Easter), and summer)).  Of course, in those days. I looked for records, incessantly.

[Mal C]

It’s an absolute blessing to have you on here Robb, having somebody who was actually buying a large percentage of these great 45s we all have and want in the US is totally invaluable to this site...

But your a modest man, with a cast iron memory... not like me ! 

I’m right you actually shopped in the Dolphin record shop in LA? 

Malcolm 

 

[Robbk]

14 minutes ago, Mal C said:

It’s an absolute blessing to have you on here Robb, having somebody who was actually buying a large percentage of these great 45s we all have and want in the US is totally invaluable to this site...

But your a modest man, with a cast iron memory... not like me ! 

I’m right you actually shopped in the Dolphin record shop in LA? 

Malcolm 

 

I not only shopped in all three stores but worked there, as well.  The original store was located at Vernon Ave. and Central Ave.  in South Central.  The 2nd store was at Manchester Ave. and Broadway, in South L.A., and the 3rd was at Crenshaw and 43rd St., in The Crenshaw District/Liemert Park.   I shopped at all 3, and also helped out, sporadically, carrying record boxes, and helped Mrs. Dolphin with inventorying her records.  I also shopped at Flash Records, which was also on Vernon and Central, and Sam's Records, on Adams Blvd near Western Ave., Pat's Records on San Pedro Place and Gage Ave., and Crain's Records, on Adams Blvd. and West Blvd.  in The Crenshaw District (which was owned by KGFJ DJ, Herman Griffith).  All those were the classic L.A. Ghetto record shops which had extensive stock of R&B, Soul, Blues, Jazz, and Gospel records.  I also had friends working at Record Merchandising (distributor), and a couple other distributors in L.A,  and I had the same kind of coverage in Chicago for record shops and distributors.

[Garethx]

These were pressed at two Decca plants. Gloversville NY and Pinckneyville IL. 
Pinckneyville used a ◆ symbol at the end of the b-side master number.
Gloversville used a ✤ symbol at the end of the b-side master number.

[Mal C]

18 hours ago, RobbK said:

I not only shopped in all three stores but worked there, as well.  The original store was located at Vernon Ave. and Central Ave.  in South Central.  The 2nd store was at Manchester Ave. and Broadway, in South L.A., and the 3rd was at Crenshaw and 43rd St., in The Crenshaw District/Liemert Park.   I shopped at all 3, and also helped out, sporadically, carrying record boxes, and helped Mrs. Dolphin with inventorying her records.  I also shopped at Flash Records, which was also on Vernon and Central, and Sam's Records, on Adams Blvd near Western Ave., Pat's Records on San Pedro Place and Gage Ave., and Crain's Records, on Adams Blvd. and West Blvd.  in The Crenshaw District (which was owned by KGFJ DJ, Herman Griffith).  All those were the classic L.A. Ghetto record shops which had extensive stock of R&B, Soul, Blues, Jazz, and Gospel records.  I also had friends working at Record Merchandising (distributor), and a couple other distributors in L.A,  and I had the same kind of coverage in Chicago for record shops and distributors.

Wow... I have a question about your time in the shop/s, I’m sure most on here will remember this kind of experience.

when I really got into collecting House records about 87/88 we used to go to a shop called Don Christie’s in Birmingham, Don was white but he was the main man for Reggae in the city and his shop the the place to go on a Sat morning, we went because he was astute and would always have  a great box of the latest imports from Chicago Detroit, New York. 

We were the only white kids in that shop, and you had watch yourself a bit, you took your place on the long counter and he would play things while you went through the box he got from under the counter. You gestured if you wanted it, and they would throw the track to your way.  It was an experience in its self, but Don took no shit of anybody and if we got comments because of our colour or choice of music, the person involved was out on the street!! 

One thing I miss in this ‘digital’ age is that interaction with other buyers like that, I met all kind of folk in there and other shops like it,  you must have stories from LA and Chicago, I’d love to hear some of these if you are happy to share a few...

Malcolm 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Mal C

[Robbk]

18 hours ago, Mal C said:

Wow... I have a question about your time in the shops, I’m sure most on here will remember this kind of experience.

You must have stories from LA and Chicago, I’d love to hear some of these if you are happy to share a few...

Malcolm 

Yes, I do.  But those years were long ago.  I'll have to think about it for awhile.  I remember Bob Hite, before he joined Canned Heat.  He was chubby, clean shaven, with greased down Italian-style slicked back hair, sitting behind the counter in Westwood's Rancho Music (Westside suburban record shop), in a Hawaiian shirt, playing his ukulele.  After we had been friendly for a few years, he told me about the new singing group he was forming with Henry Vestine, and a few other Blues record collectors I had met.  When he told me the name, I blurted out "THE CAN'T EAT?????  What kind of name is that for a BLUES band???? (I was an "Old Man" even at the tender age of 20)  . That was 1966, and if I remember correctly, just when those new-fangled singular noun group names were coming in.  When I found out the real name was "Canned Heat", I thought "THE CAN'T EAT" was better.  Bob had an amazing collection of Blues 78s.

I've met Mickey Stevenson, Bunky Sheppard, Ernie Freeman, Lonnie Cook, Gloria Jones, Mary Wells, Bo Diddley, Albert King, B.B. King, Dootsie Williams, Ruth Dolphin, Freddie Gorman, Robert Gordy, Dee Dee Warwick, Brenda Holloway, Lester Tipton, The O'Jays, The entire cast of "Amos 'N' Andy" TV show, Sam Cooke, Lou Rawls, prize fighter Sugar Ray Robinson, Mel Carter, Bob May, Cap Wortman, Jane Hill, Music Man Murray, The Wenzels, John Hillyard, Ray Avery, Art Turco, Lew Bedell, Art Rupe, Hunter Hancock, Lew Alcindor (Kareem Abdul Jabbar),  and a lot more. 

 

I met a fair amount of record collectors, shop owners, and music industry people in Chicago, Detroit (I used to drive there 2 Saturdays a month to look for records from 1963-66 (right during the best music years), and L.A., and also the San Francisco Bay Area, where I lived in 1971-72, and had gone on several long weekend trips during the late '60s.  So, I'll have more stories coming.  None of my stories are funny.  My funny stories all come from the 20 years I worked in Africa, The Middle East, and The Far East, and living in Germany.  Nothing very funny has happened to me in The Netherlands (and that's okay with me.  I like stability of a decent situation.    Also, a lot of Black entertainers came into my father's stores on The South Side of Chicago, and in "South L.A." (actually, The West Adams section of it).  I was a "Ghetto Child" in my mid and late teens and early 20s).

But, right now I've got heavy work deadlines and am also working on my 2018 taxes (which is complicated - involving 3 countries). So, I'll have to pick this up some time in the future.  In any case, I'm a lot better at bringing up things from a prompt (comment about something that triggers my memory, rather than trying to search among the cobwebs to find long unthought of memories).

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by RobbK

[Zoomsoulblue]

Robbk - interesting reading old school stuff - respect  

[Mal C]

We love da ‘old Skool’ Lol

thank you Robb, I’ve said a few times to my wife I was born 15 years to late, she righty pointed out we would have never met if that was the case, but you wonder at what you missed, it’s a rich past for us, and that is what this site is all about!!

when you have a moment though, what was Sam Cooke like? 

good luck with the tax ‘Men’ ! 

Best wishes  

malcolm 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Mal C

[Soulfusion]

Robb K - Wow just wow.

[Hammie]

9 hours ago, RobbK said:

Yes, I do.  But those years were long ago.  I'll have to think about it for awhile.  I remember Bob Hite, before he joined Canned Heat.  He was chubby, clean shaven, with greased down Italian-style slicked back hair, sitting behind the counter in Westwood's Rancho Music (Westside suburban record shop), in a Hawaiian shirt, playing his ukulele.  After we had been friendly for a few years, he told me about the new singing group he was forming with Henry Vestine, and a few other Blues record collectors I had met.  When he told me the name, I blurted out "THE CAN'T EAT?????  What kind of name is that for a BLUES band???? (I was an "Old Man" even at the tender age of 20)  . That was 1966, and if I remember correctly, just when those new-fangled singular noun group names were coming in.  When I found out the real name was "Canned Heat", I thought "THE CAN'T EAT" was better.  Bob had an amazing collection of Blues 78s.

I've met Mickey Stevenson, Bunky Sheppard, Ernie Freeman, Lonnie Cook, Gloria Jones, Mary Wells, Bo Diddley, Albert King, B.B. King, Dootsie Williams, Ruth Dolphin, Freddie Gorman, Robert Gordy, Dee Dee Warwick, Brenda Holloway, Lester Tipton, The O'Jays, The entire cast of "Amos 'N' Andy" TV show, Sam Cooke, Lou Rawls, prize fighter Sugar Ray Robinson, Mel Carter, Bob May, Cap Wortman, Jane Hill, Music Man Murray, The Wenzels, John Hillyard, Ray Avery, Art Turco, Lew Bedell, Art Rupe, Hunter Hancock, Lew Alcindor (Kareem Abdul Jabbar),  and a lot more. 

 

I met a fair amount of record collectors, shop owners, and music industry people in Chicago, Detroit (I used to drive there 2 Saturdays a month to look for records from 1963-66 (right during the best music years), and L.A., and also the San Francisco Bay Area, where I lived in 1971-72, and had gone on several long weekend trips during the late '60s.  So, I'll have more stories coming.  None of my stories are funny.  My funny stories all come from the 20 years I worked in Africa, The Middle East, and The Far East, and living in Germany.  Nothing very funny has happened to me in The Netherlands (and that's okay with me.  I like stability of a decent situation.    Also, a lot of Black entertainers came into my father's stores on The South Side of Chicago, and in "South L.A." (actually, The West Adams section of it).  I was a "Ghetto Child" in my mid and late teens and early 20s).

But, right now I've got heavy work deadlines and am also working on my 2018 taxes (which is complicated - involving 3 countries). So, I'll have to pick this up some time in the future.  In any case, I'm a lot better at bringing up things from a prompt (comment about something that triggers my memory, rather than trying to search among the cobwebs to find long unthought of memories).

 

Your life has been anything but boring Robb that's for sure...