Listened recently to chaka Khan and patti Austins latest offerings and to be honest they did not set the world alight for me , as much as l have respect for artists trying to pay their  bills ,  from a musical point of view when is enough!  enough ! ? Any thoughts or examples ? Or is it a case of improving with age ?

 

Not heard any recent stuff from Patti Austin,   but she is/was a fabulous singer.   I'll have a listen.   I've heard the latest offering from Chaka tho. 

   back to original Q,   Martha Reeves shoulda hung hers up years ago.  I saw her in Stafford, around 83,    she was ropey even then.   I saw her again in 2013,     god awful .     Tina Turner is another (not sure if she has already?).  Elton John,  Rod Stewart,  both past their best,  I'm sure there are many others out there. ... Huge respect to their success and history,  I love loads of (those named) their stuff,   but of late, not so good . 

As mentioned Martha Reeves.  Also  Gloria Jones was really awful at Prestatyn weekender a few years ago. I was embarrassed for her.

Yet others are / where still amazing when i last saw them .  Chuck Jackson,  Eddie Holman.  

Steve 

There's a lot of artists trying to hold on to past glory.  With some, the motivation isn't paying the bills, so possibly it's the thrill of performing, or the adulation of the fans, or just the love of making music.  If it's the only career you've ever known, then it's hard to give it up.  As mentioned earlier, there are a lot of artists who should have hung up the microphone years ago.  In the Northern Soul world, some promoters insist on tracking down artists and persuading them to cross the pond to perform in front of the faithful, with sometimes disastrous results.  Again, several examples above.  It's so sad to witness some of these once great singers struggling through a three song set, when the only person truly benefitting is the one selling the tickets.

Recording wise , the record companies will make that decision ?

As for touring I assume the love of the limelight and a need to pay bills pushes them on when probably a lot should have called it a day , a lot of our artists are at least in their seventies and I know lots of people who can hardly walk at that age so more power to the singers who keep going .

The artists who turn up at say the Weekenders probably feel what the f**k I will give it a go , a lot may have not performed for years, so maybe a little slack  should be given.   

Remember seeing Linda Griner at Nott's County FC in the 90's and feeling for her. Bad enough she was singing to a backing track but, sadly, her best days had long gone..

In contrast. Jesse Davies at Cleggy few years back absolutely blew me away! I was that immersed in his rendition of 'Stormy' I had to take myself outside to compose myself - I was that emotional! I already knew his version having got it on an album some years prior, but when he started performing it live It took me to another planet altogether..

In summary.. Some still have it but others don't

Hey now, come on, guys.

These artists gave so much pleasure to us all over the years, and they are dropping like flies as time marches on.

Tommy Hunt, Dean Parrish, Toby Legend, Freddie Chavez, Spyder Turner, Betty Swan, etc etc....long may they entertain us.

How about appreciation for keep on keeping on!

If you can't say anything nice, don't say nothing at all. These artists may look at this site and be really depressed.

No negative posts please. 

Ed

  On 04/02/2019 at 15:51, tomangoes said:

Hey now, come on, guys.

These artists gave so much pleasure to us all over the years, and they are dropping like flies as time marches on.

Tommy Hunt, Dean Parrish, Toby Legend, Freddie Chavez, Spyder Turner, Betty Swan, etc etc....long may they entertain us.

How about appreciation for keep on keeping on!

If you can't say anything nice, don't say nothing at all. These artists may look at this site and be really depressed.

No negative posts please. 

Ed

Sorry, but the OP asked the question and I suspect he appreciates honest answers.  If I could no longer do the day job I wouldn't "keep on keeping on".  Why should it be any different for the musical profession?

The post was predominately about recorded music,  which in the case of the two artist's l quoted as great as their voices used to be the records are a very poor reflection of past glorys 

  On 04/02/2019 at 16:38, Spain pete said:

The post was predominately about recorded music,  which in the case of the two artist's l quoted as great as their voices used to be the records are a very poor reflection of past glorys 

I actually heard Patti Austin's latest on Solar this afternoon, something from a film soundtrack.  Instantly forgettable, certainly didn't make me prick up my ears and pay attention.

If the record companies ' have faith' what artist would decline a pay cheque?

I doubt Patti Austin or Chaka Khan are rolling in it.

Don't like it, don't buy it, but don't disrespect it.

Ed

 

Chaka Khan has a net worth of $30 million.  Patti Austin has a net worth of $12 million.  Plenty to roll about in.

Record company's always have faith as long as the deal is right not the question though

  On 04/02/2019 at 16:47, tomangoes said:

If the record companies ' have faith' what artist would decline a pay cheque?

I doubt Patti Austin or Chaka Khan are rolling in it.

Don't like it, don't buy it, but don't disrespect it.

Ed

 

 

  On 04/02/2019 at 16:53, Steve S 60 said:

Chaka Khan has a net worth of $30 million.  Patti Austin has a net worth of $12 million.  Plenty to roll about in.

Wow!  Must be down to agents and things as Mr Womack once said  , and by the way he never went into decline  imo

Edited February 4, 20196 yr by Spain pete

  On 04/02/2019 at 17:05, Spain pete said:

Wow!  Must be down to agents and things as Mr Womack once want  , and by the way he never went into decline  imo

Interesting to read that Patti owns a chain of restaurants, a football team and has her own brand of vodka, perfume and also a fashion line.....

https://en.mediamass.net/people/patti-austin/highest-paid.html

This site puts her net worth at $215 million!

Edited February 4, 20196 yr by Steve S 60

She's worth every penny ...  just hearing her backing vocals on George Benson's  'Give me the night'  album,   fantastic !   

  On 04/02/2019 at 17:34, IanP said:

She's worth every penny ...  just hearing her backing vocals on George Benson's  'Give me the night'  album,   fantastic !   

Great collaborations with Quincy Jones on The Dude album.

  On 04/02/2019 at 15:35, FickleFingers said:

 

In contrast. Jesse Davies at Cleggy few years back absolutely blew me away! I was that immersed in his rendition of 'Stormy' I had to take myself outside to compose myself - I was that emotional! I already knew his version having got it on an album some years prior, but when he started performing it live It took me to another planet altogether..

In summary.. Some still have it but others don't

Had exactlythe same feeling when I first saw Brenda Holloway sing . When I'm gone .it just melted me in places I didn't think I could melt.

Then i got to meet her 😍

Steve 

Gladys Knight is still in fine form. Yesterday at the

Superbowl - Just noticed NFL blocked the video

Sorry ! 

 

Edited February 4, 20196 yr by the yank

On record the problem is often the material/production.  In terms of live the ones that struggle the most probably always were not the greatest live.  Having said that as good as some of them still are they are not a patch on how they were in their prime.  Which can be said for most of us!!!!!

  On 04/02/2019 at 19:30, the yank said:

Gladys Knight is still in fine form. Yesterday at the

Superbowl - Just noticed NFL blocked the video

Sorry ! 

https://www.patriots.com/video/gladys-knight-sings-the-national-anthem-at-super-bowl-liii

Apparently, it's a hard song to sing well, even if you can 'hold a tune'

 

Edited February 4, 20196 yr by simon t

I wonder if some of these Artists feel the same way when they're on stage, ie looking out at a load of Fat bald Pensioners trying to be 17 again?.

  On 04/02/2019 at 16:01, Steve S 60 said:

Sorry, but the OP asked the question and I suspect he appreciates honest answers.  If I could no longer do the day job I wouldn't "keep on keeping on".  Why should it be any different for the musical profession?

Professionals get paid. Some of those artists might never have got paid in the first place. Discovering there's a bunch of people crazy about your work that you thought was long forgotten, and who are prepared to pay to see you in person, must be really uplifting. Easy to knock promoters for seeing the angle, but without them the artists might be none the wiser, and a lot of punters denied the pleasure of seeing and even meeting their heroes.

As for those who keep on recording, I wasn't too wild about much of Aretha's stuff on Arista but there was a big audience for it, apparently. It doesn't have to take away my shelf space or listening time that's better used for more worthy releases.

Im a plasterer can't turn the work out like i used to but i keep on keeping on !

  On 05/02/2019 at 07:51, Mickey Finn said:

Professionals get paid. Some of those artists might never have got paid in the first place. Discovering there's a bunch of people crazy about your work that you thought was long forgotten, and who are prepared to pay to see you in person, must be really uplifting. Easy to knock promoters for seeing the angle, but without them the artists might be none the wiser, and a lot of punters denied the pleasure of seeing and even meeting their heroes.

As for those who keep on recording, I wasn't too wild about much of Aretha's stuff on Arista but there was a big audience for it, apparently. It doesn't have to take away my shelf space or listening time that's better used for more worthy releases.

I've actually witnessed performances where I've genuinely felt embarrassed for the artist.  For a promoter to put them on stage, and for them to actually agree to it when they are clearly not up to the task isn't doing anybody any favours.  It is certainly not a pleasure to see this.

  On 05/02/2019 at 08:03, marty57 said:

Im a plasterer can't turn the work out like i used to but i keep on keeping on !

I'm a welder - Likewise! 

Len 

  On 05/02/2019 at 08:30, Steve S 60 said:

I've actually witnessed performances where I've genuinely felt embarrassed for the artist.  For a promoter to put them on stage, and for them to actually agree to it when they are clearly not up to the task isn't doing anybody any favours.  It is certainly not a pleasure to see this.

Fair point - maybe the better way to do it is some sort of Q&A like at the summer Blackpool festival.

  On 05/02/2019 at 08:35, Mickey Finn said:

Fair point - maybe the better way to do it is some sort of Q&A like at the summer Blackpool festival.

I do enjoy those sessions.  With regards to the live acts at Blackpool, I live in hope that the organisers can set the sound system up properly for the Friday night.

  On 05/02/2019 at 08:31, LEN said:

I'm a welder - Likewise! 

Len 

  On 04/02/2019 at 15:51, tomangoes said:

Hey now, come on, guys.

These artists gave so much pleasure to us all over the years, and they are dropping like flies as time marches on.

Tommy Hunt, Dean Parrish, Toby Legend, Freddie Chavez, Spyder Turner, Betty Swan, etc etc....long may they entertain us.

How about appreciation for keep on keeping on!

If you can't say anything nice, don't say nothing at all. These artists may look at this site and be really depressed.

No negative posts please. 

Ed

I'd agree up to a point, while positivity is always my preferred option there is a clause here.

When you set yourself up as someone who is paid to produce art of any description, you are making yourself subject to the reviewing public and the critics to critique your product, when it's glowing it's great when it isn't it isn't. It is part of the profession, you take the money for better or worse.

You needn't worry too much Ed, while your feelings are laudable, an international multi-million selling artist like Martha Reeves has the emotional tools in her box to be able to cope with a few negative comments on a forum such as this.

Artists do slow down, you'll find that in a great many cases the Key of the piece will be dropped to accommodate a singer not being able to hit the highs like they did in their prime. Having said that in my opinion FWIW experiencing an artist 'live' of the calibre of say, Martha, should still be an awesome sight to witness and some allowance should be given for the fact that they are up there onstage at 70 odd years of age, and the performance not compared in a negative light with a fully engineered and produced studio single that artist made when they were 21. 

  On 05/02/2019 at 14:43, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

I'd agree up to a point, while positivity is always my preferred option there is a clause here.

When you set yourself up as someone who is paid to produce art of any description, you are making yourself subject to the reviewing public and the critics to critique your product, when it's glowing it's great when it isn't it isn't. It is part of the profession, you take the money for better or worse.

You needn't worry too much Ed, while your feelings are laudable, an international multi-million selling artist like Martha Reeves has the emotional tools in her box to be able to cope with a few negative comments on a forum such as this.

Artists do slow down, you'll find that in a great many cases the Key of the piece will be dropped to accommodate a singer not being able to hit the highs like they did in their prime. Having said that in my opinion FWIW experiencing an artist 'live' of the calibre of say, Martha, should still be an awesome sight to witness and some allowance should be given for the fact that they are up there onstage at 70 odd years of age, and the performance not compared in a negative light with a fully engineered and produced studio single that artist made when they were 21. 

Martha had lost it altogether last time I heard her, someone I would no longer pay money to see. 

  On 05/02/2019 at 15:10, chalky said:

Martha had lost it altogether last time I heard her, someone I would no longer pay money to see. 

This is the thing Chalky isn't it. As the paying customer it's your absolute right to vote with your wallet!

  On 04/02/2019 at 14:03, Spain pete said:

from a musical point of view when is enough!  enough ! ? Any thoughts or examples ? Or is it a case of improving with age ?

As the great Louis Armstrong once said "Musicians don't retire,they just stop when there's no more music in them".

I think he may of had a good point, there.

Horace Silver for example in 2004, said this would be his final year of live performing and that he was going to retire and do other things instead of music. I think retiring could have possibly led to Silver's Alzheimer's disease,although that's just my speculation,by the way.Count Basie retired and ended up needing a wheel chair to get around in his last few years, when he came out of retirement in 1982 the Basie orchestra played the New Savoy Ball Room in Harlem. Basie rode out on his motorized wheel chair and slid himself over onto the piano seat. Basie said to the audience retiring was the worst decision he made.I also recall an interview with J.J.Johnson from the early 90s. Johnson said he had officially retired from traveling and performing. The first time he traveled after retiring, his wife and him were waiting for their luggage, after they grabbed their bags, his wife asked what are you waiting for still? He told her, my trombone. It still isn't here yet. She told him, you didn't take your trombone.

I can't think of many musicians that retired and didn't pick up their instrument at some point and play. My Grandfather and his brother were both semi pro Jazz musicians who still played into their 70s & 80's.

Unfortunately, I suspect the real reason behind the decision to put off retirement is financial for most musicians. They simply can't afford to stop because they didn't earn a lot and couldn't save enough for their later years. They don't have pensions often and many don't have adequate healthcare insurance,if at all. Their rent and other costs are going up at a much higher rate than their pay. Sure, there are cases where it's a "play or die" ethic, but I think for too many  musicians it's actually a case of "play or starve".

Edited February 5, 20196 yr by Soulsides

  On 05/02/2019 at 15:55, Soulsides said:

I can't think of many musicians that retired and didn't pick up their instrument at some point and play. My Grandfather and his brother were both semi pro Jazz musicians who still played into their 70s & 80's.

You just about there described my band! 

  On 05/02/2019 at 15:55, Soulsides said:

Unfortunately, I suspect the real reason behind the decision to put off retirement is financial for most musicians. They simply can't afford to stop because they didn't earn a lot and couldn't save enough for their later years. They don't have pensions often and many don't have adequate healthcare insurance,if at all. Their rent and other costs are going up at a much higher rate than their pay. Sure, there are cases where it's a "play or die" ethic, but I think for too many  musicians it's actually a case of "play or starve".

Certainly the case with us.

We all get old,and the sad thing is that our bodies and voices in most cases get old too,for singers we too often only remember them as they were as some hold up well vocally but some don't and that's sad when they don't realize it,like anything else in life we have to adjust and some artist just don't.

Its about expectations.

If you think a singer who was in their prime in the 60s/70s will still sound as good now, then you are likely to be disappointed. It's very rare for a singer to be able to maintain quality over a long period. Inevitably, there will be a dropoff in the majority of cases. There is always the exception, such as Gladys Knight who still sounds great, but most singers in their 60s and beyond just won't sound the same, and mostly will be inferior. 

If you accept that, then you might be able to enjoy a performance, though I've never found that to be the case.

It's a bit different for musicians, who usually improve with age and can still perform to a high standard well into old age. 

My reason for posting this subject in the main was to highlight the fact that once singers loose their ability to sing some record material that all is required is to warble and rap over a sub standard  arrangement.  Of course this doesn't apply to all artist's but surely if you gonna sing  then sing,  to cheat your adoring fans with a half hearted attempt to me makes them less endearing 

Spencer Wiggins, last year or year before.  Into his 80s I think....

 

Spencer Wiggins is amazing that's really incredible for his age too

Edited February 5, 20196 yr by Shufflin

There should be a warning on that video for flash photography and SHINE HEADS

Bloody blinding...

RIP Benny Lamanna

Ed

  On 05/02/2019 at 19:35, tomangoes said:

There should be a warning on that video for flash photography and SHINE HEADS

Bloody blinding...

RIP Benny Lamanna

Ed

I changed it as it was a bit mean 😉

There was a karaoke competition in the Wiltshire hotel in Los Angeles in 2004 to see who could belt out DEE DAR DO...

And Frank W didn't win it

Glad he showed up though and took part.

Wish I could hear him try again. Same for plenty of others with debatable singing credentials as they got older.

Ed

 

  On 05/02/2019 at 19:27, shufflin said:

Spencer Wiggins is amazing that's really incredible for his age too

Taken on my phone so quality not the best. He was great.  He could hardly walk or move but he could still bang a tune out. 

Edited February 5, 20196 yr by chalky

To be fair to many of the acts that have come over here, I have only seen a handful who had lost it.  Two or three who were suffering with illness, cancer, Mary Wells and one of the Brothers of Soul come to mind. Most have been good or better, some fantastic.

if you get the chance to see the likes of Lee Fields then do so. 

Edited February 6, 20196 yr by chalky

eddie parker was one I felt sorry for, he really struggled singing im gone, even had a piece of paper with the words on, but was a honour to see him perform 

one that blew me away was Nolan porter just brilliant...…...mind you hes still a youngster compared to some

As a team we feel that enough has been said now on this topic. We are goin' let this run till tomorrow night then lock it.

  On 05/02/2019 at 20:31, chalky said:

Taken on my phone so quality not the best. He was great.  He could hardly walk or move but he could still bang a tune out. 

Agreed, what a night. Percy's still got it too.  

Willie Hightower's another chap in his 70s who still has a decent voice.