Pat Lewis, Look At What I Almost Missed, Alt. Label Design

[Tagtag]

Just wondering how often this one turns up with the red balloons design Solid Hit label.

It appears to be less common than the pale blue label but is it rare?

Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks, Carl

[Wheelsville1]

3 hours ago, TagTag said:

Just wondering how often this one turns up with the red balloons design Solid Hit label.

It appears to be less common than the pale blue label but is it rare?

Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks, Carl

As far as I'm aware it only exists on the one label design. Chris. 

[Tomangoes]

At least 4 different ' colours ' on you tube, don't know the order of rarity? 

Not sure either if the Parliaments cut is rare or rarer.

BUT somebody will!

Ed

[Wheelsville1]

2 hours ago, Wheelsville1 said:

As far as I'm aware it only exists on the one label design. Chris. 

 

2 hours ago, Wheelsville1 said:

As far as I'm aware it only exists on the one label design. Chris. 

My apologies,I didn't realize it was on the other design.It defiantly is far more scarce. Chris. 

[Blackpoolsoul]

6 hours ago, TagTag said:

Just wondering how often this one turns up with the red balloons design Solid Hit label.

It appears to be less common than the pale blue label but is it rare?

Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks, Carl

I think it must be "rare" as it's always the others (label design) that turn up, which is why it was probs re-issued recently with the balloon design

[The Yank]

It might be harder to find on the "red balloons" label but that's a later pressing.

If you want the original issue , go with this one - 

Edited January 27, 2019 by the yank

[Blackpoolsoul]

2 hours ago, the yank said:

It might be harder to find on the "red baloons" label but that's a later pressing.

If you want the original issue , go with this one - 

Now that is really good stuff, do you know how later were they, do you think it was to make them more attractive

[The Yank]

It's hard to say exactly when the label change happened- definitely sometime in early '67. The next two releases

on the label (Debonaires" "Loving You..." and Jimmy Gilford were on the light blue label). I've only seen the 

next Debonaires and Pat Lewis' "Warning" on the "red balloon" label.  I believe the "red balloon" label "Look.."

was reissued due to demand on the new label design.

 

[Tagtag]

Thanks for all of the replies.

There is an image of the balloon design on discogs but only the no no baby side.

I don't see any balloon design copies on popsike but there are many many pale blue ones and white demos of the same design.

If the balloon design is a reissue because of demand then why so few copies?

[Blackpoolsoul]

1 hour ago, the yank said:

It's hard to say exactly when the label change happened- definitely sometime in early '67. The next two releases

on the label (Debonaires" "Loving You..." and Jimmy Gilford were on the light blue label). I've only seen the 

next Debonaires and Pat Lewis' "Warning" on the "red balloon" label.  I believe the "red balloon" label "Look.."

was reissued due to demand on the new label design.

 

That must be in line with The Revilot label that did the same thing in 1967 and of course they used the same colours

[Wheelsville1]

9 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

That must be in line with The Revilot label that did the same thing in 1967 and of course they used the same colours

As with RIC Tic,going from plane colour to multicolour in 67. 

[The Yank]

4 hours ago, TagTag said:

 

If the balloon design is a reissue because of demand then why so few copies?

Yes- but how big was the demand? Every radio station in the U.S. didn't start playing  records at the same time. "Look.." 

was a hit in Chicago in December, 1966. Who's to say a few months later a station in Philadelphia or San Francisco 

didn't start playing "Look...", and a distributor asked for copies to be pressed up?

    A good example of this is Tommy Neal's "Going To A Happening". The Palmer copy was reviewed in Record World in 

August ,1967. I've heard the record was a big hit in Pittsburgh and so copies were pressed. The record took off in 

December, 1967 on the West Coast and the Vault copy came out 4 months later. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by the yank

[Tagtag]

I can see how it works but it appears that the balloon design is an oddity as apart from the one image on discogs there seems to be no other reference or documentation in price guides etc to this variant. Very strange, especially when you consider that this is a well known classic. 

[Blackpoolsoul]

9 hours ago, TagTag said:

I can see how it works but it appears that the balloon design is an oddity as apart from the one image on discogs there seems to be no other reference or documentation in price guides etc to this variant. Very strange, especially when you consider that this is a well known classic. 

 

[45cellar]

It is definitely not a recent reissue. Simply the later design label used at the end of its run.

Possibly as already suggested due to picking up airplay somewhere as the design changed.

It doesn't turn up that often. I have had my copy for years.

[Chalky]

Are the matrix details in the run out the same for each design?

[Blackpoolsoul]

7 minutes ago, 45cellar said:

It is definitely not a recent reissue. Simply the later design label used at the end of its run.

Possibly as already suggested due to picking up airplay somewhere as the design changed.

It doesn't turn up that often. I have had my copy for years.

This was the re-issue I was on about, same design

[45cellar]

11 minutes ago, chalky said:

Are the matrix details in the run out the same for each design?

I only have the White DEMO to compare matrix.

Exactly the same regarding the ZTSC121582 with different letter as some ZTSC press are.

STAMPED    ZTSC121582-1A

STAMPED    ZTSC121582-1B

 

[45cellar]

12 minutes ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

This was the re-issue I was on about, same design

OK thanks. Yes, they used the later design for the OuttaSight release.

[Blackpoolsoul]

11 minutes ago, 45cellar said:

I only have the White DEMO to compare matrix.

Exactly the same regarding the ZTSC121582 with different letter as some ZTSC press are.

STAMPED    ZTSC121582-1A

STAMPED    ZTSC121582-1B

 

That's good what are the numbers on the other side please ?

[45cellar]

White DEMO STAMPED       ZTSC121583-1A

Stock Copy ( Later Design )  STAMPED ZTSC121583-1B

 

[Blackpoolsoul]

Perhaps Don Davis or someone in his office decided the first releases were too plain and sad so they wanted to make them more attractive

Edited January 28, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul
Typo

[Tomangoes]

If this disc was selling back in the day, it gives great hope for all of us that others of the same ilk....

Perhaps there are some hidden rarities ( to us ) that will eventually show up at flea markets and such like!

Ed

[Tagtag]

Thanks Again for all of your comments.

I have to agree with Ed's last comment, if a well known classic like this exists it what appears to be a virtually unknown format, then what else is still out there in those Detroit warehouses and basements.

[Mal C]

I’ve Not seen Dave Flynn post on here in a while, but this thread is gagging for his ‘red balloon’ magic tones 45 on solid hit... 

mal

 

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Perhaps Don Davis or someone in his office decided the first releases were too plain and sad so they wanted to make them more attractive

more than likely pressed after the change of label design.  Pressing would be done to cater for demand/orders 

[Tagtag]

1 hour ago, Mal C said:

I’ve Not seen Dave Flynn post on here in a while, but this thread is gagging for his ‘red balloon’ magic tones 45 on solid hit... 

mal

 

That's a very good example of the type of thing that is out there but not well documented - until quite recently anyway.

The Magic Tones, Solid Hit 108 was overlooked by many of the discographies & label listings but now is starting to show up.

[Chalky]

There was only 2 or 3 months between this and Pat’s second release and from what I can see the label changing to multi coloured. There was probably none of the old label design left. If she was hot around then not inconceivable to press more of her first release.  

Edited January 28, 2019 by chalky

[Mal C]

1 hour ago, TagTag said:

That's a very good example of the type of thing that is out there but not well documented - until quite recently anyway.

The Magic Tones, Solid Hit 108 was overlooked by many of the discographies & label listings but now is starting to show up.

How many are you aware of? Greg and Dave got a copy each when they discovered it, think Greg May have sold his, kinda remember seeing a sales post somewhere.

its all on Daves website but I think it’s the same mix...

 

 

 

[Guest]

Solid Hit 102 Debonairs and Solid Hit 103 by Jimmy Gilford used the plain label like Pat Lewis 101.

So Pat Lewis 101 on the later coloured bubble label design must have been pressed up a significant amount of time after it's original release!

Edited January 28, 2019 by Guest

[purist]

I always presumed these label changes from plain to a more artistic image was something to do with the changes happening in the post war America, how people, perhaps emboldened by the hippy movement broke away from the plain drab 'use-the-minimum-you-can' mentality. It's not just the Detroit labels that updated their look, some of the major labels also got a refresh

[Tagtag]

It appears that the label was running between 1966 and 1967 which means that there was only a few months between all of the releases and variants.

As regards the Magic Tones disc I have seen this on Ebay a couple of times at the very most but went for big money!!

[Wheelsville1]

1 hour ago, TagTag said:

It appears that the label was running between 1966 and 1967 which means that there was only a few months between all of the releases and variants.

As regards the Magic Tones disc I have seen this on Ebay a couple of times at the very most but went for big money!!

The Magic Tones is extremely rare,I've only ever seen one copy in the flesh,I think it was Dave Flynns I sore. 

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, TagTag said:

It appears that the label was running between 1966 and 1967 which means that there was only a few months between all of the releases and variants.

As regards the Magic Tones disc I have seen this on Ebay a couple of times at the very most but went for big money!!

There was two to three months between this release and the 4th. It was the 4th where the design changed.  That is no time at all when trying to get a record out to the radio stations, onto the streets, stores etc.

[Blackpoolsoul]

18 minutes ago, chalky said:

There was two to three months between this release and the 4th. It was the 4th where the design changed.  That is no time at all when trying to get a record out to the radio stations, onto the streets, stores etc.

So would the balloon technically be re-presses on the labels that were originally made plain 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul
More sense

[Tagtag]

It appears that the consensus is that the red balloons issue is a repress that was done a few months later than the pale blue first pressing.

In this instance the repress appears to be harder to find than the first pressing.

In any case you get two good sides with "No Baby No" being the better side for me - mid tempo magic from a great artist on a great label from a great era in soul music - and not to forget it is from The Motor City too!

[Blackpoolsoul]

36 minutes ago, TagTag said:

It appears that the consensus is that the red balloons issue is a repress that was done a few months later than the pale blue first pressing.

In this instance the repress appears to be harder to find than the first pressing.

In any case you get two good sides with "No Baby No" being the better side for me - mid tempo magic from a great artist on a great label from a great era in soul music - and not to forget it is from The Motor City too!

That was a superb thread, thanks got my brain working overtime

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, TagTag said:

It appears that the consensus is that the red balloons issue is a repress that was done a few months later than the pale blue first pressing.

In this instance the repress appears to be harder to find than the first pressing.

In any case you get two good sides with "No Baby No" being the better side for me - mid tempo magic from a great artist on a great label from a great era in soul music - and not to forget it is from The Motor City too!

It sin’t a reissue but simply a further run or press if you like.  If it was a reissue as you imply it would have a different matrix altogether as the first would have been deleted. There is a difference between further presses and reissue. Neither is it an oddity, been enough about over the years although as you say it does seem to be harder to come by  

And in any case does it really matter?  It is simply another piece of the collecting puzzle. 

[Chalky]

3 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

So would the balloon technically be re-presses on the labels that were originally made plain 

Surely been enough discussion lately for you to by now make up yer own mind

[The Yank]

Billboard ad from October, 1966 for Pat's single.

The Holidays' 45 ended up being "Love's Creeping

Up On Me"/  " Never Alone" - 

[Sunnysoul]

 The label was Solid Hit .... so surely  the "balloons" people are referring to are in fact meant to represent bullet holes ... wouldn't you say  ?! 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, sunnysoul said:

 The label was Solid Hit .... so surely  the "balloons" people are referring to are in fact meant to represent bullet holes ... wouldn't you say  ?! 

I think they meant it was a Solid Hit record. Hit as hitting the top spot.  Top selling No 1 sound in the charts.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, the yank said:

Billboard ad from October, 1966 for Pat's single.

The Holidays' 45 ended up being "Love's Creeping

Up On Me"/  " Never Alone" - 

Look at the fantastic quality of those 4 releases!  Imagine if they could make records for the charts, as good as that now!

Edited January 29, 2019 by Guest

[Tomangoes]

34 minutes ago, solidsoul said:

Look at the fantastic quality of those 4 releases!  Imagine if they could make records for the charts, as good as that now!

What position did they reach back then?

R & B chart I guess?

Ed

[The Yank]

I don't think Pat ever made the national charts,

she did have a big hit in Chicago going Top 5

during Christmas week of 1966

[Nick Soule]

That’s really interesting to see it that high on the Chicago radio advert. The only place I’ve ever found the later label design was at Hyde Park Records in Chicago. I’ve only found the blue label one in Detroit. 

[Mal C]

This kinda reminds me of the four gents on Fros Ray, pink or beige is first, then a darker almost pink / rouge run that was confirmed to have appeared in shops not too long after the pink ones,  simply a second run of the first release, and although sells for quite allot cheaper I don’t see em about much, love my copy esta differente! 

anyway back to counting bullet holes and sheep peeps.. let’s see more scans of original music mags! What this site is all about

 

[The Yank]

"LWIAM"  was a Best Bet in Cashbox the week of 11/12/66-

as was Rose Battiste's "I Miss My Baby"

Edited January 31, 2019 by the yank