Ernest Ernie & The Sincerities - 7" release

[Seano]

34 minutes ago, chalky said:

You would think these artists would like to make a bit of money and meet demand by pressing enough copies

I was thinking this myself, but I do get that trepidation about pressing more than you can sell - my wife constantly juggles this with prints or cards featuring paintings she's done.

[Guest Shufflin]

I don't know how all this works but seeing as Expansion had rights to release it on an LP last year can't they put it out on a 45 if there are no further US copies? Be amazed if there isn't a further run of copies (before it gets booted by dodgy pensioners ;-0)

Edited January 4, 2019 by Shufflin
typo

[Chalky]

14 minutes ago, seano said:

I was thinking this myself, but I do get that trepidation about pressing more than you can sell - my wife constantly juggles this with prints or cards featuring paintings she's done.

But once your artwork done a follow up press is a fraction of the price but why not press 600, can't be much more to press than 300?

[Chalky]

7 minutes ago, shufflin said:

I don't know how all this works but seeing as Expansion had rights to release it on an LP last year can't they put it out on a 45 if there are no further US copies? Be amazed if there isn't a further run of copies (before it gets booted by dodgy pensioners ;-0)

The licence probably only allows for inclusion on the Lp.  The 45 label took on the rights to press the 45, they could more than likely do a follow up press.

[Trafficmaster]

4 minutes ago, chalky said:

But once your artwork done a follow up press is a fraction of the price but why not press 600, can't be much more to press than 300?

500 were pressed

 

[Chalky]

Prices for United Pressing plant....

https://www.urpressing.com/7-inch/

[Seano]

8 minutes ago, chalky said:

But once your artwork done a follow up press is a fraction of the price but why not press 600, can't be much more to press than 300?

True, volume brings prices down, the thing is trying to second guess whether you'll ever sell the larger quantity. Great if all goes well and you've got the extra stock, but if not what do you do with them - people don't like buying at full price to then find you shift the remainder at a lot less!

[Seano]

6 minutes ago, chalky said:

Prices for United Pressing plant....

https://www.urpressing.com/7-inch/

Amazing to think of ordering your own discs here! It all adds up of course, and I haven't got a musical bone in my body, but we can all dream!

[Chalky]

22 minutes ago, seano said:

Amazing to think of ordering your own discs here! It all adds up of course, and I haven't got a musical bone in my body, but we can all dream!

I quick add up and less than $2000 for a 1000 45s.  Add your license if applicable etc.  $15 a 45 should give a decent return.

[Chalky]

30 minutes ago, seano said:

True, volume brings prices down, the thing is trying to second guess whether you'll ever sell the larger quantity. Great if all goes well and you've got the extra stock, but if not what do you do with them - people don't like buying at full price to then find you shift the remainder at a lot less!

I did get the price for a UK plant and the difference between 500 and 1000 was about 70 quid.  Yes you licence should be a bit more but for the sake of £70 it is surely worth the extra.  I know it isn't as straight forward as that but I would have thought a 600 run isn't too much?

[Seano]

1 hour ago, chalky said:

I did get the price for a UK plant and the difference between 500 and 1000 was about 70 quid.  Yes you licence should be a bit more but for the sake of £70 it is surely worth the extra.  I know it isn't as straight forward as that but I would have thought a 600 run isn't too much?

That's a powerful demonstration of the value of increasing the initial order.

[Reforee]

i suspect it's a two edge sword, you press 1000 and get stuck with 500, it's money on the shelve you can't use for next label project. Then there's the deal with the artist. If a deal is struck for a 500 run and the label gets stuck with half then the artist still gets his money. If the label sells out, doing a re run isn't that straight forward, they have to get permission from said artist....who may start to think "hang on we can get a better deal as our product is Hot" or over a 500 might cost more to the label for contract reasons. 

 

While reruns are great for those that didn't get copies it is not always great business sense for label or artist. In the world of numbers a thousand isn't a lot for the whole world of Soul fans to buy, but it is a big hit if they don't sell and that's where the rub is. If you put out the track to DJs and record stores as promos with the intention of gauging reaction and possible upfront orders from said outlets, you also open the door for negative things to happen, like gazumping, bootlegging etc.

Now I'm not saying these are the reasons but if I was running a label they certainly would be on my mind.

How would you feel to say......hearing a snippet of a new track, placing and paying for the product before its pressed and then trust to the label, once they have your money and  an idea of who wants what and how many to press and distribute?

That's prehaps the only way everybody wins without too many losing out which has to include the label and artist besides us greedy Soul fans! 

This is just me thinking out loud-so let's not take the above as any insight into what's happened here at all.

Dave H.

[Guest Shufflin]

3 minutes ago, reforee said:

While reruns are great for those that didn't get copies it is not always great business sense for label or artist

but 'Do Something' has already been released on Bandcamp, then on vinyl via Expansion LP - if this 45 was the first time it was ever released I would understand the frenzy but this is the 3rd legit release, and the 2nd on vinyl

Plus Spotify etc

madness

[Jaco]

Aside from the valid comments about the release format, number of pressed copies etc, this is a fabulous piece of music. The whole structure of the song, music, lyrics, vocals etc is a reminder of how good soul music can be without sounding as if it’s a pastiche of something from a previous era. Just brilliant.

[Reforee]

7 minutes ago, shufflin said:

but 'Do Something' has already been released on Bandcamp, then on vinyl via Expansion LP - if this 45 was the first time it was ever released I would understand the frenzy but this is the 3rd legit release, and the 2nd on vinyl

Plus Spotify etc

madness

But they are all different forms of musical media which not everybody likes/wants or prefers. Even with vinyl LPs are not every bodies cup of tea if you just want the one track say, hence the 45 release prehaps?

[Philb]

The two that were on Discogs for £50 have been bought. 

[Local]

Fabulous piece of music with that certain something to make it a timeless classic, although 

I cant help thinking that Marvins vocals would have transported it to a different stratosphere altogether.

 

 

[Fishdockroad]

On 06/01/2019 at 14:08, SoulBoyRecords said:

I missed the 45 release - after a copy if anyone has a spare for sale - Cheers Mike 

Another one has gone up on Discogs but it isn't cheap!

[Philb]

22 minutes ago, Fishdockroad said:

Another one has gone up on Discogs but it isn't cheap!

That’s disgraceful asking that price. 

[Fishdockroad]

6 minutes ago, philb said:

That’s disgraceful asking that price. 

I agree. Just thought I'd let you know.

[Chalky]

2 hours ago, Fishdockroad said:

Another one has gone up on Discogs but it isn't cheap!

Another reason why the companies should press more 

Edited January 7, 2019 by chalky

[Seano]

Fairytale end to the story for me.

The incredibly generous @reforee got in touch and was able to get me the spare copy he bought for a friend who turned out to have already bought one anyway. @Eddie Hubbard was DJing in Newark on Sunday and Dave passed the record via Ed who has kindly delivered it to me earlier this evening. Love Soul Source - thanks guys, what a great forum!

[Scootboy]

Great news 

[mecca74]

On 03/01/2019 at 11:47, lfcjunkie said:

I received a message off Ernie himself this morning Martin he said the 7 is 'very limited and he was lucky to get a copy for himself after a terrible year I'm glad to hear about the interest regarding the 45'.... 

Dave L 

Ought to press some more and get some $ then leave the scoundrels with the extras

[Daved]

On 4 January 2019 at 21:10, shufflin said:

but 'Do Something' has already been released on Bandcamp, then on vinyl via Expansion LP - if this 45 was the first time it was ever released I would understand the frenzy but this is the 3rd legit release, and the 2nd on vinyl

Plus Spotify etc

madness

I kinda agree. It's readily available on all sorts of formats at decent prices so there's easy ways for everyone to listen to it whenever they like. Why pay big bucks for a very recent 45? It's not worth the price difference.

Also, personally, I think there's much better recent stuff out there on 45 that you can get for a decent price e.g. Super Disco Edits

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by daved

[Scootboy]

7" format is easier to carry and use,

it takes less space and most of the times,the song that you want to play is the first one,

it will always be the first choice for soul DJs

 

[Chalky]

1 hour ago, Scootboy said:

7" format is easier to carry and use,

it takes less space and most of the times,the song that you want to play is the first one,

it will always be the first choice for soul DJs

 

Well if you can’t queue an lp up or a memory stick (which is even easier to carry) in the 2 plus minutes you have spare then maybe you shouldn’t be a dj

Edited January 8, 2019 by chalky

[Mark R]

3 hours ago, Scootboy said:

7" format is easier to carry and use,

it takes less space and most of the times,the song that you want to play is the first one,

it will always be the first choice for soul DJs

 

Will it?  Interesting 'cos it's the one I'm least likely to carry as it's the format I play least off!!

All my new 45's are converted to digital for my USB.......or at a push CDR where USB isn't available.

I think when you say it's the preferred format of soulboys you are only thinking of a subset of soulboys.....

Cheers,

Mark R

Edited January 8, 2019 by Mark R

[Scootboy]

I see that many people are easily offended,

I only talk about DJing with vinyls,

7" is the king format

[Blackpoolsoul]

28 minutes ago, Mark R said:

Will it?  Interesting 'cos it's the one I'm least likely to carry as it's the format I play least off!!

All my new 45's are converted to digital for my USB.......or at a push CDR where USB isn't available.

I think when you say it's the preferred for at of soulboys you are only thinking of a subset of soulboys.....

Cheers,

Mark R

With all this tech Mark, soon we will have mini USB's inserted in our wrists and just wave are arms round in the air and then anyone can DJ 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Blackpoolsoul
Images

[Daved]

1 hour ago, Scootboy said:

I see that many people are easily offended,

I only talk about DJing with vinyls,

7" is the king format

But surely not everyone who wants to own this 45 is a DJ? Even one that will play records only.

[Mark R]

1 hour ago, Scootboy said:

I see that many people are easily offended,

I only talk about DJing with vinyls,

7" is the king format

In no way offended good sir......just stating how it is for me!

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest Shufflin]

5 hours ago, daved said:

recent stuff out there on 45 than you can get for a decent price e.g. Super Disco Edits

the JJ Barnes Candy release is fantastic, the forthcoming Alexis Evans LP sounds promising and one track on the LP titled "I Made A Deal With Myself " might cause a similar debate if it gets a limited 45 release

anyway back to Ernie and this particular milkcart - a 500 run isn't really that limited i just think that they didn't release enough copies over here in UK/EU land - so I think cheaper copies might start popping up from the US over coming weeks/months -I'd expect a rerun or future 45 on Expansion records in UK too, no need to cough up silly money to scalpers

congrats though to anyone who got a non-scalper copy albeit I'll stick to the original LP copy thanks

[Seano]

1 hour ago, daved said:

But surely not everyone who wants to own this 45 is a DJ? Even one that will play records only.

That's the case for me certainly, and as mentioned before, I've no problem with digital formats as well, I just have an enjoyment of putting a 45 on the deck now and again and sitting back to listen.

Plus of course many records have label designs that add a lot to the pleasure, sometimes for the quality of design and often as not, not, but they all give that little extra. 

[Chalky]

5 hours ago, Scootboy said:

I see that many people are easily offended,

I only talk about DJing with vinyls,

7" is the king format

The scene doesn’t revolve around djs and I know it seems there are more djs than collectors etc but there isn’t.  More interested in this record than the northern scene as well. 

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by chalky

[Philb]

13 hours ago, shufflin said:

a

One for sale on Discogs this morning £249 !! That’s really taking the pish. 

[Guest Shufflin]

1 hour ago, philb said:

One for sale on Discogs this morning £249 !! That’s really taking the pish. 

sellers name is appropriate haha - only an idiot will buy it, but someone probably will

until this discussion I really didn't appreciate that people would only want a record if was on a 45 - so if it came out first on an LP they would ignore that and some would be willing to pay daft money instead for a single released later

[Chalky]

3 hours ago, shufflin said:

sellers name is appropriate haha - only an idiot will buy it, but someone probably will

until this discussion I really didn't appreciate that people would only want a record if was on a 45 - so if it came out first on an LP they would ignore that and some would be willing to pay daft money instead for a single released later

Plus those who ignore the download . I would have the Lp if it was all their stuff over any 45, hopefully an Lp later this year. 

[Chalky]

4 hours ago, philb said:

One for sale on Discogs this morning £249 !! That’s really taking the pish. 

They can have mine for 200, bargain

[Philb]

59 minutes ago, chalky said:

They can have mine for 200, bargain

I bought the LP, save myself £235   

Edited January 9, 2019 by philb

[Mark R]

1 hour ago, philb said:

I bought the LP, save myself £235   

Isn't it interesting how we all have our little idiosyncrasies!  Because whilst I don't buy into the whole obsession with vinyl only, I don't think the LP counts here being a compilation.  In other words I would rather have the MP3 download or the 45.

Funny old world ain't it?!!

 

Cheers,

Mark R

[Philb]

15 minutes ago, Mark R said:

Isn't it interesting how we all have our little idiosyncrasies!  Because whilst I don't buy into the whole obsession with vinyl only, I don't think the LP counts here being a compilation.  In other words I would rather have the MP3 download or the 45.

Funny old world ain't it?!!

 

Cheers,

Mark R

Don’t get me wrong Mark I’d love and prefer the 45 but not at the price it’s at today, At the start of this week it was being sold at £50 and today I’ve seen two, one at £249.99 and another at £150, I think at that sort of inflation over a short period Alan Sugar might invest. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by philb

[Guest Shufflin]

3 hours ago, Mark R said:

I don't think the LP counts here being a compilation

  - it's the first time the track was released on vinyl, so we'll disagree on that - BTW these Expansion compilations are collectable in their own way, try tracking down the earlier ones in near mint for less than £100, they often include first time on vinyl tracks

[Mark R]

11 minutes ago, shufflin said:

  - it's the first time the track was released on vinyl, so we'll disagree on that - BTW these Expansion compilations are collectable in their own way, try tracking down the earlier ones in near mint for less than £100, they often include first time on vinyl tracks

Don't misunderstand me.....these are superb comps and I have them all......albeit on CD.  I'd be quite happy to have the Ernie track on this CD/LP if it were the only way to buy it, but in the a scenario we are in I would be just as happy to have MP3/45.  As it is I have all three.

I wonder whether people would rather play Ivan Matias off the compilation LP vinyl rather than the original release JAP CD?

Like I say.....funny old world!

 

Cheers,

Mark R

Edited January 9, 2019 by Mark R

[Guest Shufflin]

58 minutes ago, Mark R said:

I wonder whether people would rather play Ivan Matias off the compilation rather than the original release JAP CD? 

an original Japan CD is £70 in near mint, the Expansion vinyl LP compilation is £179 in similar condition? (that was a surprise not going to lie)  however I think the CD has the provenance, it's interesting though that no one released such a great track on 45?

Edited January 9, 2019 by Shufflin
maths

[Chris Anderton]

On 04/01/2019 at 16:42, Scootboy said:

Juno has changed the status to out of stock.

I got a message that it was released today,

I opened the link,I tried to add it in my cart...and of course it was sold out,I took a screenshot,

there is a great possibility that they stocked only one copy,

discogs has the first £75 one for sale today,yesterday,five £50 were sold.

I had already ordered a copy before this thread started,it posted today because the seller was on holidays,I'll probably have it next week,

 

They certainly stocked more than one copy, both my mate and I bought one each!

I received the email at 16.07, they were sold out by 16.30.

Chris

[Chris Anderton]

Andy Lothian from the record company posted this on FB:

Guys, there are still copies of Ernest Ernie around, albeit decreasing in numbers by the day. As to why we didn’t press up 1000? Simple really, most releases don’t warrant being pressed for 1000 - and that includes excellent releases that we’ve done well on previously including BAGS, R&R SOUL ORCHESTRA, TONY DRAKE and others. It was never about making it an exclusive record, it was about pressing up the right number to satisfy what we thought would be genuine demand. As correctly stated earlier, there are no plans or discussions regarding a second pressing. I got to go hunt out the next release!!!

He also goes on to say there were 500 copies pressed.

 

Chris

[Philb]

10 minutes ago, chris anderton said:

Andy Lothian from the record company posted this on FB:

Guys, there are still copies of Ernest Ernie around, albeit decreasing in numbers by the day. As to why we didn’t press up 1000? Simple really, most releases don’t warrant being pressed for 1000 - and that includes excellent releases that we’ve done well on previously including BAGS, R&R SOUL ORCHESTRA, TONY DRAKE and others. It was never about making it an exclusive record, it was about pressing up the right number to satisfy what we thought would be genuine demand. As correctly stated earlier, there are no plans or discussions regarding a second pressing. I got to go hunt out the next release!!!

He also goes on to say there were 500 copies pressed.

 

Chris

They may be around Chris but where are the reasonable priced copies?

[Chris Anderton]

Not seen and reasonably priced copies mate...only £200+ on Discogs.

I guess it depends on what you call reasonably priced?

There is demand for this in the US too....500 copies could soon melt away into collections.  I buy loads of this new release stuff and I don't even play them, just put them in a box in the record room. 

 

Chris

Edited January 9, 2019 by chris anderton

[Philb]

And this is the problem with this scene, it’s in demand so I’ll immediately inflate the price, not based on any precedent but the most I could possibly earn on it. 

YOU KEEP THE FAITH, I’ll keep the cash.

Edited January 10, 2019 by philb