How many events?

[Ian Parker]

Last night , I was invited to play some records, in a sth Yorkshire venue.  Fab place, great PA system, top dance floor. 

  Only problem was, it wasn’t full ! 

  I’ve just checked the gig guide on here,  ffs there were ELEVEN events in the immediate area , that’s  not including, Chesterfield, Mansfield, north Notts, Hull  etc etc. 

  I know the old saying ‘you pays ya money and take ya choice’.   But that’s not helping anyone is it? 

  I’ve seen photos from other ‘popular’ venues, they looked desolate too.. 

  come on promoters, no more please 

[Steve L]

You might as well talk to your living room wall mate

[Zed1]

All these Dickie Searling Wannabe's have got to play out their ebay collections somewhere though.

 

 

[Winsford Soul]

The price that some people are asking for records I'm surprised that there's that many " DJ,s " with money to have that many venues country wide never mind in one area. I use the term   DJ,s  loosely 

Wouldn't it be fun if there where a league tables for venues based on 

Promoting. Traceable to a minimum of ten venues they have attended and payed entrance fee to put out flyers , spread the word  etc etc . Not social media use alone 

DJ,s  not repeating records.. More than two offences would result in instant relegation to weekender DJ status  where numerous records are repeated numerous times 

Record boxes searched and any records in the top 500 list confiscated until the end of the night. 

DJ,s must produce evidence of being in attendance of venue at least twice before being allowed to play records at said  venue 

 Reputation of DJ,s  to be annually revised 

Record dealing is free after venue entry fees.

Record dealers must be able too provide proof of original vinyl if requested. 

Record dealing is only allowed on records with prices plainly marked to prove homework on current trends  and not fancible auction prices . 

Please feel free to add to this list. 

Touch paper lit  and stood back. 

Steve 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Winsford Soul

[Monny1916]

The gig guide is there for everyone's benefit I don't complain when I have to do a near 300 mile round trip I'm assuming you took the money so stop whinging and check the guide in future regards Stephen 

[Ian Parker]

Not helpful really ,  for anyone! 

 

[Ian Parker]

I went as a guest DJ , not a paying punter ..  so why would I check the gig guide ?

[Guest Spain pete]

Trying to convince her indoors to clear the house out so we can hold soul do's   ,  might be a nice little earner

[Winsford Soul]

3 minutes ago, Spain pete said:

Trying to convince her indoors to clear the house out so we can hold soul do's   ,  might be a nice little earner

Don't forget Pete to invite your mates round to DJ for you so as you can then DJ at there's. 

Steve 

[Gilly]

If it don't calm down a bit it will go up its own arse. There are more numbers of people connected with the soul scene than there has ever been, trouble is that 2/3 are of talc and handbag folks. The sooner they F*** off the better, of course posting things like this is a waste of time because they are unlikely to be on soul source anyway

Edited November 27, 2018 by BabyBoyAndMyLass
Offensive language altered, as per site rules.

[Guest Spain pete]

On ‎25‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 16:08, Gilly said:

If it don't calm down a bit it will go up its own arse. There are more numbers of people connected with the soul scene than there has ever been, trouble is that 2/3 are of talc and handbag folks. The sooner they F*** off the better, of course posting things like this is a waste of time because they are unlikely to be on soul source anyway

 

On ‎25‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 15:53, Winsford Soul said:

Don't forget Pete to invite your mates round to DJ for you so as you can then DJ at there's. 

Steve 

In my house it won't be the 500  or that's what l call piggin   northern soul music  vol 90   l will just leave solar radio on a loop  that should sort the men out from the boys   

[Ian Parker]

1 hour ago, Winsford Soul said:

Don't forget Pete to invite your mates round to DJ for you so as you can then DJ at there's. 

Steve 

Nail on Head 

[Len]

I know exactly where IanP is coming from with his opening post - It is so disheartening to witness, and is something that has gradually been going on for a good while now (like ageing)

Once a venue starts to 'slide', it's almost impossible to turn it around (If you have a bad meal at a restaurant, you don't tend to go back) Personally I'm considering having a 'Northern Soul Gap Year', and hope that maybe the scene will naturally adjust (I'm not holding my breath though)

Thank you to all the genuine promoters (and DJs) who are sticking with it.

Ending on a positive - It's not all bad. There are some venues that are doing just fine. I believe 'The Rugby All-nighter' is one example (and well deserved) / and I expect 'The 100 Club' will go on forever 

Len  

[Winsford Soul]

27 minutes ago, LEN said:

I know exactly where IanP is coming from with his opening post - It is so disheartening to witness, and is something that has gradually been going on for a good while now (like ageing)

Once a venue starts to 'slide', it's almost impossible to turn it around (If you have a bad meal at a restaurant, you don't tend to go back) Personally I'm considering having a 'Northern Soul Gap Year', and hope that maybe the scene will naturally adjust (I'm not holding my breath though)

Thank you to all the genuine promoters (and DJs) who are sticking with it.

Ending on a positive - It's not all bad. There are some venues that are doing just fine. I believe 'The Rugby All-nighter' is one example (and well deserved) / and I expect 'The 100 Club' will go on forever 

Len  

Len. When are you starting your 12 month gap away from the scene  ? Thought you had started it on Saturday .  

Was good to see you mate as it always is. 

Steve 

 

[Len]

13 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

Len. When are you starting your 12 month gap away from the scene  ? Thought you had started it on Saturday .  

Was good to see you mate as it always is. 

Steve 

 

The trouble with you lot is that no matter how many are at a venue, you always have a good time! 

That don't help the promoter though - So less of that business please Steve 

Len  

[Winsford Soul]

4 minutes ago, LEN said:

The trouble with you lot is that no matter how many are at a venue, you always have a good time! 

That don't help the promoter though - So less of that business please Steve 

Len  

Good job the soul police didn't turn up Saturday night mate. If they had seen us laughing,  smiling and generally having a good time with great music they would have tried to banish us to normality. But  we would have kidnapped them and auctioned them off instead of selling them at the going rate. 

Steve 

[John Moffatt]

On 25/11/2018 at 11:58, Winsford Soul said:

The price that some people are asking for records I'm surprised that there's that many " DJ,s " with money to have that many venues country wide never mind in one area. I use the term   DJ,s  loosely 

Wouldn't it be fun if there where a league tables for venues based on 

Promoting. Traceable to a minimum of ten venues they have attended and payed entrance fee to put out flyers , spread the word  etc etc . Not social media use alone 

DJ,s  not repeating records.. More than two offences would result in instant relegation to weekender DJ status  where numerous records are repeated numerous times 

Record boxes searched and any records in the top 500 list confiscated until the end of the night. 

DJ,s must produce evidence of being in attendance of venue at least twice before being allowed to play records at said  venue 

 Reputation of DJ,s  to be annually revised 

Record dealing is free after venue entry fees.

Record dealers must be able too provide proof of original vinyl if requested. 

Record dealing is only allowed on records with prices plainly marked to prove homework on current trends  and not fancible auction prices . 

Please feel free to add to this list. 

Touch paper lit  and stood back. 

Steve 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The price of records doesn't really come into it.  The majority of events and DJs rely on boots and reissues. And that is the route in for so many new DJs, as it has been for years.

[Woodbutcher]

3 minutes ago, John Moffatt said:

The price of records doesn't really come into it.  The majority of events and DJs rely on boots and reissues. And that is the route in for so many new DJs, as it has been for years.

You're obviously attending the wrong events then ... 

[Winsford Soul]

7 minutes ago, John Moffatt said:

The price of records doesn't really come into it.  The majority of events and DJs rely on boots and reissues. And that is the route in for so many new DJs, as it has been for years.

Surely the price of records comes into it. If they where reasonable prices all the wanna be DJ, s wouldn't have to buy boots or reissues to play. 

Call me old fashioned but why would any wanna be play a bootleg priced at say twenty-five pounds when they could buy a different record on its original format for the same money and play that instead  and in doing so would be in my opinion sticking with the ethics of DJ,s playing original vinyl only like how i was brought up. 

Steve 

[Hooker1951]

On 25 November 2018 at 11:58, Winsford Soul said:

The price that some people are asking for records I'm surprised that there's that many " DJ,s " with money to have that many venues country wide never mind in one area. I use the term   DJ,s  loosely 

Wouldn't it be fun if there where a league tables for venues based on 

Promoting. Traceable to a minimum of ten venues they have attended and payed entrance fee to put out flyers , spread the word  etc etc . Not social media use alone 

DJ,s  not repeating records.. More than two offences would result in instant relegation to weekender DJ status  where numerous records are repeated numerous times 

Record boxes searched and any records in the top 500 list confiscated until the end of the night. 

DJ,s must produce evidence of being in attendance of venue at least twice before being allowed to play records at said  venue 

 Reputation of DJ,s  to be annually revised 

Record dealing is free after venue entry fees.

Record dealers must be able too provide proof of original vinyl if requested. 

Record dealing is only allowed on records with prices plainly marked to prove homework on current trends  and not fancible auction prices . 

Please feel free to add to this list. 

Touch paper lit  and stood back. 

Steve 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Steve

Lets shoot all the DJ.s ,shoot all the Record dealers, declare year zero for Soul and start again, But in another 50 years you would probably find that we would be back in the same position, The best Music in the World ( Soul Music) is there to be loved and appreciated, It is Human beings what let it down . When anything in this world is successful, The parasites follow, Greedy Promoters, Egotistical wannabe DJ.s ,Selfish Venue Owners, Punters who have forgot about the music, Cynical snobbish know all,s, Like I said The Music will always be good it is the Human element what lets it down. The Music is bigger than any Promoter , any DJ, Any Record Dealer, Just remember that we didn't make the music , The music made us what we are for better or worse? 

Mick L

[John Moffatt]

1 hour ago, Winsford Soul said:

Surely the price of records comes into it. If they where reasonable prices all the wanna be DJ, s wouldn't have to buy boots or reissues to play. 

Call me old fashioned but why would any wanna be play a bootleg priced at say twenty-five pounds when they could buy a different record on its original format for the same money and play that instead  and in doing so would be in my opinion sticking with the ethics of DJ,s playing original vinyl only like how i was brought up. 

Steve 

Fair point about prices, they get dafter and dafter. In one way, the bootleg market might actually help keep prices down by reducing demand for originals. But, too many up-and-coming DJs just want to play what they hear everybody else playing, and what they think the floor demands (it's that old vicious spiral). Quality, alternative, cheap originals don't get played at most events I've been to lately. There are some exceptional little gems around though, mainly doing Sunday chill-out type sessions.

[Winsford Soul]

27 minutes ago, Hooker1951 said:

Hi Steve

Lets shoot all the DJ.s ,shoot all the Record dealers, declare year zero for Soul and start again, But in another 50 years you would probably find that we would be back in the same position, The best Music in the World ( Soul Music) is there to be loved and appreciated, It is Human beings what let it down . When anything in this world is successful, The parasites follow, Greedy Promoters, Egotistical wannabe DJ.s ,Selfish Venue Owners, Punters who have forgot about the music, Cynical snobbish know all,s, Like I said The Music will always be good it is the Human element what lets it down. The Music is bigger than any Promoter , any DJ, Any Record Dealer, Just remember that we didn't make the music , The music made us what we are for better or worse? 

Mick L

Mick . Trust you are well  The music we love is as you have said what brought you,  me and everyone else together in some form or another.  Is it too late now for as you say to get back to the roots of it all without any of the greed , selfishness,  cynicism and everything else. Forever the optimist 

Steve 

[Harrythedog]

Search the event guide every week , All those venues-and no where worth going.

[Chalky]

On 25/11/2018 at 09:11, IanP said:

Last night , I was invited to play some records, in a sth Yorkshire venue.  Fab place, great PA system, top dance floor. 

  Only problem was, it wasn’t full ! 

  I’ve just checked the gig guide on here,  ffs there were ELEVEN events in the immediate area , that’s  not including, Chesterfield, Mansfield, north Notts, Hull  etc etc. 

  I know the old saying ‘you pays ya money and take ya choice’.   But that’s not helping anyone is it? 

  I’ve seen photos from other ‘popular’ venues, they looked desolate too.. 

  come on promoters, no more please 

But isn’t the promoter you played for alos part of the problem? Maybe he or she is one of those exacerbating the situation, maybe the other 11 have been going longer, have a set up as good or better.

I do agree it is a problem, choice isn’t always better, it just splits the crowd.  Too many Djs who have nothing to offer that isn’t already on offer, too mnaybselfish promoters who want there 5 minutes of fame or an ego massaging.  Why people are no longer happy to just attend as a punter is beyond me, promoting and Djing isn’t worh the hassle today  

From what I have been reading, venues do seem to be on the decline, even major large venues are seeing a drop in numbers but promoters and wannabe Djs do not care about the bigger picture, namely the scene and the health of the scene.  A healthy scene with healthy attendances should be the sole aim, not setting up another needless event in an already over crowded calendar. 

[Ian Parker]

The event I attended is a well established venue (3 or 4 years I believe) . Hence my acceptance to spin a few .  Don’t get me wrong , it’s a fantastic place, that positivley encourages you to play something a little different. The guys either side of me certainly did that, with good response, I chucked a few in too, for good measure, but 3 events in the same town is maybe a little much?  

  Tough job being a promoter I’m sure

Edited November 26, 2018 by IanP

[Chalky]

7 minutes ago, IanP said:

The event I attended is a well established venue (3 or 4 years I believe) . Hence my acceptance to spin a few .  Don’t get me wrong , it’s a fantastic place, that positivley encourages you to play something a little different. The guys either side of me certainly did that, with good response, I chucked a few in too, for good measure, but 3 events in the same town is maybe a little much?  

  Tough job being a promoter I’m sure

Little too much? It’s fcuking stupid.  Promoters need to their heads banging together. 

[Monny1916]

Let us not forget some promoters and djs in various places have not always been in the position to promote or dj now we have a situation where some people have a dislike for another and will do whatever it takes to ruin a good well run night sometimes to the point where it puts a strain on there friends to choose !!! so sad 

[Woodbutcher]

Can see new wannabe promoters setting up events while being blissfully unaware or uncaring of what else might be on locally to them , but I find it hard to believe that anyone would deliberately waste their hard-earned starting up a night just to deliberately ruin another promoters event ... 

Do you have hard evidence to back the claim that you will share or is this just the product of an overactive imagination  ... ?

Long gone are the days of calling in bomb-scares to scupper niters , can still remember standing outside the Wirrina shivering that night ... 

[Len]

Promoters do fall out - More so nowadays. 15 years ago they respected each other's events / and genuinely cared about 'the bigger picture' (As mentioned)......They also DID THE MATH!

Hey ho...

Len 

 

 

[Chalky]

It wasn’t that long ago that the main allnighter venues were working together and even had a joint flyer, six of us I think. 

[Len]

I used to run a free fanzine ('Northern News') which had all the events within about 50 miles listed (along with the country's main All-nighters) Every single promoter included used to ring me to check if a date was free, and back then they even tried their best not to be the following week let alone the same weekend (same night was unheard of!)

Hard to imagine now aye?

Len 

[Eddiefoster]

On 25/11/2018 at 15:53, Winsford Soul said:

Don't forget Pete to invite your mates round to DJ for you so as you can then DJ at there's. 

Steve 

Thanks Steve that's great advice

[Woodbutcher]

As I've said in the past , there are way too many events on these days , but it's very easy to separate the wheat from the chaff and probably 80% of the things listed can be dismissed as 'to be avoided' by the ones who care. 

Can remember when a whole few months worth of soul nights and nighters could be listed on a two page event guide in Manifesto ( and 1/3 of the space was taken up with a bloody great map ) , whereas today one Saturday night's worth would fill three pages of said comic.

 

 

[Eddiefoster]

9 minutes ago, LEN said:

I used to run a free fanzine ('Northern News') which had all the events within about 50 miles listed (along with the country's main All-nighters) Every single promoter included used to ring me to check if a date was free, and back then they even tried their best not to be the following week let alone the same weekend (same night was unheard of!)

Hard to imagine now aye?

Len 

So you selfishly stopped running the Fanzine and that was the root cause of the chaos and the following domino effect then Len?

[Woodbutcher]

Perhaps there should be a mandatory box to fill whilst listing a do in the Events Guide , i.e.  "Number of attendees at the last one (not including DJ's and their box-monkeys and bar-staff)" ...  that would certainly be a good pointer as to whether a roadtrip was in order ... 

[Winsford Soul]

20 minutes ago, LEN said:

I used to run a free fanzine ('Northern News') which had all the events within about 50 miles listed (along with the country's main All-nighters) Every single promoter included used to ring me to check if a date was free, and back then they even tried their best not to be the following week let alone the same weekend (same night was unheard of!)

Hard to imagine now aye?

Len 

Similarly when I run Winsford Len. Used to regularly meet up with fellow creatures of the night promoters and sort out dates so as we didn't clash.  unfortunately one of those nighters on the odd occasion would clash with the 100 club which being 200 miles away wasnt to detrimental to effect either venue maybe 1 or 2 punters either way.  But we did try to avoid any clashes. 

Steve 

[Winsford Soul]

16 minutes ago, eddiefoster said:

So you selfishly stopped running the Fanzine and that was the root cause of the chaos and the following domino effect then Len?

Typical of Len.   

Steve 

[Eddiefoster]

2 minutes ago, Winsford Soul said:

Similarly when I run Winsford Len. Used to regularly meet up with fellow creatures of the night promoters and sort out dates so as we didn't clash.  unfortunately one of those nighters on the odd occasion would clash with the 100 club which being 200 miles away wasnt to detrimental to effect either venue maybe 1 or 2 punters either way.  But we did try to avoid any clashes. 

Steve 

Ah Winsford, I remember walking in the first time - hearing one of my dancefloor faves, dumping my bag only to recover it 6 hours later once I'd left the floor. THEM were the days!

don't remember you Steve

[Winsford Soul]

1 minute ago, eddiefoster said:

Ah Winsford, I remember walking in the first time - hearing one of my dancefloor faves, dumping my bag only to recover it 6 hours later once I'd left the floor. THEM were the days!

don't remember you Steve

Who !!!

[Len]

31 minutes ago, eddiefoster said:

So you selfishly stopped running the Fanzine and that was the root cause of the chaos and the following domino effect then Len?

Oh god, do you think so?!!!......You know I won't sleep tonight now 

Len 

[Winsford Soul]

10 minutes ago, LEN said:

Oh god, do you think so?!!!......You know I won't sleep tonight now 

Len 

I said that to myself on Saturday night 

[Len]

1 hour ago, WoodButcher said:

As I've said in the past , there are way too many events on these days , but it's very easy to separate the wheat from the chaff and probably 80% of the things listed can be dismissed as 'to be avoided' by the ones who care. 

Can remember when a whole few months worth of soul nights and nighters could be listed on a two page event guide in Manifesto ( and 1/3 of the space was taken up with a bloody great map ) , whereas today one Saturday night's worth would fill three pages of said comic.

 

 

If memory serves - They even had the country's promoter's phone numbers at the bottom of the page, which shows how few people did promote back then.

(It was all that was needed)

Len 

[Guest BabyBoyAndMyLass]

Seems funny reading this. Very rare we have an event within a four hour round trip.

Exceptions being Soul On Wax (2 events a year) Plymouth Alldayers that have done 2 so far, they were good though. And Atlantic Soul Collective, quite often. All good and appreciated, but West Cornwall is never gonna be as well catered for as the Midlands or oop North obviously.

Must be strange though, too many events and fragmented groups of attendees. Interesting thread, guess it's all about people wanting to be in on the scene while it's enjoying popularity.

Do we think it'll become even more events? Or die a death over time? 

[Frankie Crocker]

Hey, I’ve just had a great idea. Maybe someone should promote just one major central venue, say in Stoke or Crewe or Wolverhampton or Nottingham or Wigan. Somewhere accessible by train so folk don’t have to drive. Then all the wannabe DJ’s could go somewhere at the weekend to listen to great music and leave their little record boxes at home. Instead of having a hundred venues attended by ten people, there could be one huge dancehall full of vinyl addicts, filling the dancefloor and browsing in the record bar. I reckon this idea could really catch on and save everyone the hassle of reading events listings.

[Leicester Boy]

7 hours ago, BabyBoyAndMyLass said:

Seems funny reading this. Very rare we have an event within a four hour round trip.

Exceptions being Soul On Wax (2 events a year) Plymouth Alldayers that have done 2 so far, they were good though. And Atlantic Soul Collective, quite often. All good and appreciated, but West Cornwall is never gonna be as well catered for as the Midlands or oop North obviously.

Must be strange though, too many events and fragmented groups of attendees. Interesting thread, guess it's all about people wanting to be in on the scene while it's enjoying popularity.

Do we think it'll become even more events? Or die a death over time? 

I got to be honest babyboy i don't see the problem.  I might not agree with the views of some on here,but they have a superb knowledge of the scene, so if they can't see an oddfellows all dayer and a st Ives weekender against a two bob event at a local church hall then what can you say.

[Chalky]

4 hours ago, Leicester boy said:

I got to be honest babyboy i don't see the problem.  I might not agree with the views of some on here,but they have a superb knowledge of the scene, so if they can't see an oddfellows all dayer and a st Ives weekender against a two bob event at a local church hall then what can you say.

I think everyone can distinguish between a large event like an oddfellows all dayer and a two bob local event as you put it.  But the opening post mentioned 11 two bob local events, there was no oddfellows alldayer in the area.  So there is a problem wouldn’t you not agree.

Not only is it locally a problem but nationally too.  Three weekenders this weekend, two within an hour or so of each other, three allnighters, two in the west midlands and all three within an hour/ hour and half.  Other large soul nights as well.  Factor in all the two bob local nights as well of which there was dozens then its not rocket science to see that the scene will suffer or parts of it will suffer because of this over supply. 

There is a complete lack of respect from many towards others, with so many clashing with established long running events.  Events that also gave many their break, from this you would expect a little loyalty or support in return but it is rarely returned. 

Every week we are seeing more events added to the calendar, not just yer two bob local nights but all-nighters as well.  So it isn’t a case of a choice between a two bob promotion or one with some money behind it as there is more often than not an over supply of yer more professional promotions. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by chalky

[Len]

Promoters used to work together - They / we all used to attend the same events, whereas nowadays they are in competition with each other.

I know some have mentioned egos / 5 minutes of fame etc, and that may well be true in some cases. But, I think part of what influences some to put on events is pure blind enthusiasm - I remember standing with someone at my event, it was a busy night (as they all were back then in comparison to today), and he said....."This is great, I'll have to put one on".......I remember thinking, why? It's happening here right now!

It has to be said that there are a lot more people on the scene now, so more events would come hand in hand with that. Also, a lot of them are localized, as in, catering for people in the immediate vicinity, which has stopped a lot of people from travelling as they get what they want close to home.

Let's diarize to discuss again in 5 years time, see what changes - More events? Or die a death over time? (BabyBoyAndMyLass)

All the best,

Len 

[Leicester Boy]

19 minutes ago, chalky said:

I think everyone can distinguish between a large event like an oddfellows all dayer and a two bob local event as you put it.  But the opening post mentioned 11 two bob local events, there was no oddfellows alldayer in the area.  So there is a problem wouldn’t you not agree.

Not only is it locally a problem but nationally too.  Three weekenders this weekend, two within an hour or so of each other, three allnighters, two in the west midlands and all three within an hour/ hour and half.  Other large soul nights as well.  Factor in all the two bob local nights as well of which there was dozens then its not rocket science to see that the scene will suffer or parts of it will suffer because of this over supply. 

There is a complete lack of respect from many towards others, with so many clashing with established long running events.  Events that also gave many their break, from this you would expect a little loyalty or support in return but it is rarely returned. 

Every week we are seeing more events added to the calendar, not just yer two bob local nights but all-nighters as well.  So it isn’t a case of a choice between a two bob promotion or one with some money behind it as there is more often than not an over supply of yer more professional promotions. 

I agree with what you say chalky but I'm convinced the cream will rise to the top and others will wither on the vine. So many events is not great for the scene but surely better than having no choice. 

[Len]

"The cream will rise to the top"

I wish that were true, and if it's judged by more people choosing an event, is that then classed as the cream purely on numbers through the door?

What I'm witnessing, is devoted promoters and DJs that put so much in to our Scene being disheartened after putting all the ingredients that I believe to be right in to something, and not getting people through the door, whereas other events that are not for me can be really busy.

Lot's of people go to McDonalds 

Len 

[Winsford Soul]

20 minutes ago, LEN said:

"The cream will rise to the top"

I wish that were true, and if it's judged by more people choosing an event, is that then classed as the cream purely on numbers through the door?

What I'm witnessing, is devoted promoters and DJs that put so much in to our Scene being disheartened after putting all the ingredients that I believe to be right in to something, and not getting people through the door, whereas other events that are not for me can be really busy.

Lot's of people go to McDonalds 

Len 

KFC. oops I meant KTF.  

There we go Len.  A new name for your next soul club. Creme de la Creme .

Steve