Masters on Crimson - real test press or boot

[Mikehump]

Bought this on eBay about 10 years ago for a couple of dollars.

It has CR-1008A and HAM in the runout but the "A" is more like a delta.

Have always wondered if its from the factory or not. Help anyone?

Mike

[Speedlimit]

Looks legit to me had three copies of this superb tune over the years two great sides  what does the print say on right side under crimson music? ?

[Mikehump]

Its reversed, but I think its says Zoom and "The Collegians"

Will get back with a bit more info after looking in a mirror.

Mike

[Mikehump]

Interesting. Its as if the pressing has used an old label reversed. This is from the blank other side.

[Rich B]

Looks like it has been stored next to the record by the Collegians, you wouldn't expect to see that on a bootleg, so it implies originality to me.

[Mikehump]

A bit of googling says the Collegians are a doo wop group from 50's.

SO I guess your right. Anyone got an issue to check the deadwax?

Thanks

Mike

[Rich B]

Sold mine to Keb Darge in the late 80's. Malibus demo, plus a white demo of Rose Battiste "I miss my baby"/"Hit & run" and £25 in cash. Bought it for 10p many years previously, Always thought it one of my best sales!

Edited November 5, 2018 by Rich B

[Robbk]

6 hours ago, MikeHump said:

A bit of googling says the Collegians are a doo wop group from 50's.

SO I guess your right. Anyone got an issue to check the deadwax?

Thanks

Mike

I have "Zoom Zoom Zoom by The Collegians on Winley 224 from 1957.  It was Paul Winley's label.  I bought it new back then.  Mine (and all those issues of that record that I've seen) has only W-224A on the A side, and W-224B on "On Your Merry Way".  There are no other markings, nor any stampings.  That holds true for all my Winley records that were pressed in New York.  I do have some Paragons, Jesters, Duponts, Emanons, George Knight, Charlie White, and Dave "Baby" Cortez records on the label that have the triangle code when they were pressed at Monarch or Alco in L.A., and have a couple pressed in Chicago that have Midwest plant codes.  I think the copies of "Zoom Zoom Zoom" pressed in L.A., or The Midwest, might should have their local pressing plant codes scratched on.  But, I can't remember for sure, as a never paid much attention to the different etchings on hit records not produced in Detroit or Chicago.

My Masters Crimson 1008, has CR-1008A scratched into the "I Need Your Love" side, to the lower left of the song title, credits and group name below the record's hole, and on the left side, has the Greek letters sigma and delta, and an = sign scratched on.

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by RobbK

[Mgm 1251]

3 hours ago, RobbK said:

I have "Zoom Zoom Zoom by The Collegians on Winley 224 from 1957.  It was Paul Winley's label.  I bought it new back then.  Mine (and all those issues of that record that I've seen) has only W-224A on the A side, and W-224B on "On Your Merry Way".  There are no other markings, nor any stampings.  That holds true for all my Winley records that were pressed in New York.  I do have some Paragons, Jesters, Duponts, Emanons, George Knight, Charlie White, and Dave "Baby" Cortez records on the label that have the triangle code when they were pressed at Monarch or Alco in L.A., and have a couple pressed in Chicago that have Midwest plant codes.  I think the copies of "Zoom Zoom Zoom" pressed in L.A., or The Midwest, might should have their local pressing plant codes scratched on.  But, I can't remember for sure, as a never paid much attention to the different etchings on hit records not produced in Detroit or Chicago.

My Masters Crimson 1008, has CR-1008A scratched into the "I Need Your Love" side, to the lower left of the song title, credits and group name below the record's hole, and on the left side, has the Greek letters sigma and delta, and an = sign scratched on.

 

...like this one Robb?...there is also a “worn” machine stamp of some sort on both sides,very difficult to make out...

[Blackpoolsoul]

14 hours ago, MikeHump said:

Bought this on eBay about 10 years ago for a couple of dollars.

It has CR-1008A and HAM in the runout but the "A" is more like a delta.

Have always wondered if its from the factory or not. Help anyone?

Mike

Interesting this info on google books about the band

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=e1kODQAAQBAJ&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=the+masters+john+oates+pat+collins&source=bl&ots=usMo4MGQ3C&sig=mTG_EaB109XxfxoTQSQkxWdGfYI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjix566ib3eAhVFKMAKHVk7CG0Q6AEwE3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=the masters john oates pat collins&f=false

[Speedlimit]

12 hours ago, Rich B said:

Sold mine to Keb Darge in the late 80's. Malibus demo, plus a white demo of Rose Battiste "I miss my baby"/"Hit & run" and £25 in cash. Bought it for 10p many years previously, Always thought it one of my best sales!

Is this rich Broughton if so you sold your masters to me not keb I sold it keb at rock City  

[Rich B]

55 minutes ago, speedlimit said:

Is this rich Broughton if so you sold your masters to me not keb I sold it keb at rock City  

Hi Steve, yes it's me. I hope,you're well?

Keb must have bought 2 then, I remember the deal well. I couldn't believe he was going to give me an un-defaced Malibus demo and a wd of Rose Battiste. I thought it would be one or the other and because I hesitated he said "I suppose you'll want some cash too, is £25 alright?" Then I had to get Gary (Rushbrooke) to give me a lift home to fetch it!

All the best, Rich.

 

[Robbk]

9 hours ago, MGM 1251 said:

...like this one Robb?...there is also a “worn” machine stamp of some sort on both sides,very difficult to make out...

Mine has an uneven, slightly bumpy small area where a stamp MAY have been made, but the raised and/or lowered area is so faint that it is questionable whether or not any impression was stamped in.

[The Yank]

I don't think the record was next to the original Winley release but next to the reissue on Lost Nite Records which 

owned Crimson - 

[Mikehump]

13 hours ago, MGM 1251 said:

My Masters Crimson 1008, has CR-1008A scratched into the "I Need Your Love" side, to the lower left of the song title, credits and group name below the record's hole, and on the left side, has the Greek letters sigma and delta, and an = sign scratched on.

That clinches it for me. Sigma, Delta, Epsilon plus the indistinguishable factory stamp and the record number, identical.

Thanks a lot, but that leaves one question unanswered - WHY DID KEB WANT TWO COPIES??

Mike

[Speedlimit]

8 hours ago, Rich B said:

Hi Steve, yes it's me. I hope,you're well?

Keb must have bought 2 then, I remember the deal well. I couldn't believe he was going to give me an un-defaced Malibus demo and a wd of Rose Battiste. I thought it would be one or the other and because I hesitated he said "I suppose you'll want some cash too, is £25 alright?" Then I had to get Gary (Rushbrooke) to give me a lift home to fetch it!

All the best, Rich.

 

Hi Rich I sold him my copy around 85  also sold him Sebastian Williams too much on sounds of soul covered as Lester Tipton think I had masters covered as Lee Andrews at the time. The week before he  had the cairos off me. Good old days of record dealing  I did get little nicky sole out of him lol .Have to catch up sometime  .you still in Notts? 

[Speedlimit]

1 minute ago, MikeHump said:

That clinches it for me. Sigma, Delta, Epsilon plus the indistinguishable factory stamp and the record number, identical.

Thanks a lot, but that leaves one question unanswered - WHY DID KEB WANT TWO COPIES??

Mike

Think he let one go then brought it again at a later date

[Speedlimit]

3 hours ago, the yank said:

I don't think the record was next to the original Winley release but next to the reissue on Lost Nite Records which 

owned Crimson - 

Love stuff like this my guilty pleasure a bit of doo wop on a Sunday morning

[Tony Smith]

18 minutes ago, speedlimit said:

Hi Rich I sold him my copy around 85  also sold him Sebastian Williams too much on sounds of soul covered as Lester Tipton think I had masters covered as Lee Andrews at the time. The week before he  had the cairos off me. Good old days of record dealing  I did get little nicky sole out of him lol .Have to catch up sometime  .you still in Notts? 

Where did you copy of LNS, go to as I also had Kebs old copy complete with cue burn on the “You Said”side?

Bets wishes

Tony

[Speedlimit]

Not sure tony  I've had three copies of LNS over the years can't remember who had any of them must be a age thing  . Do remember it having cue burn though  so it may have got to you via who I sold it to. When I got it of keb it was my top want did the deal on stage at Stafford  traded cairos which both keb & guy wanted

[Tony Smith]

20 minutes ago, speedlimit said:

Not sure tony  I've had three copies of LNS over the years can't remember who had any of them must be a age thing  . Do remember it having cue burn though  so it may have got to you via who I sold it to. When I got it of keb it was my top want did the deal on stage at Stafford  traded cairos which both keb & guy wanted

I remember him getting Cairo’s he brought it along to The Thursday night do I ran in London, c/u Precisions and Al Williams the other side, I preferred the Don’t Fight It side, much to Kebs annoyance, but when he played it at Stafford we were on the floor for both!

Edited November 5, 2018 by Tony Smith

[Guest]

The Masters ' I Need Your Love' on Crimson CR1008 is on a Daryl Hall & John Oates anthology that came out five years ago. Oates conveniently talks about the track in the sleeve notes 

......We were called The Soul Sound Continentals and we changed our name to The Masters because on the the little yellow label recording pressing at the time it said 'master' so we figured that was good enough .....  I wrote 'I need your love'  with the bass player Pat Collins and I sang it. the song had a lot of harmonies. It was very much like the music that was going on in 1966 in Philadelphia  ..... We recorded it at Virtue studios on Broad street; Frank Virtue engineered it; Bobby Martin did the horn arrangement and my sister Diane sang background with our band manager Nevin Harper .....